Battling Negative Self Talk And The Story From Being Adopted To Becoming An Attorney – Ep.037 – Mike Basset

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Episode summary:​ Mike Bassett was fortunate enough to be adopted by a loving family and was fortunate enough to know his birth mom. But every young child takes things personally and Mike thought his mom’s actions reflected on him and his behaviors, creating childhood trauma. It’s that childhood trauma, that hurt inner child which creates that self-negative talk.

That self-negative talk and bad thoughts are what can destroy a person. Mike knew that it was up to him to work on healing that inner child so he can live his best life and not pass down his inner child wounds to someone else. 

Guest Name & Bio:  Unapologetically passionate and transparent, Mike Bassett has never stopped believing in the power of his team, truth, and doing the next good thing. In 2002 he founded The Bassett Firm, a Dallas-based boutique law firm specializing in defending catastrophic injury cases and has tried nearly 200 cases to verdict and is a highly sought-after national speaker, consultant, and mediator.

He is also the host and co-creator of the Podcast, Legal Grounds: Conversations on Life, Leadership, and Law, whose guests have included everyone from archbishops to military leaders and New York Times bestselling authors.

In his time as an attorney, Mike has embraced the hard path of grace and believes in second chances as much as he believes in honesty to his clients.

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[Nick McGowan]: Hey Mike, welcome to the show. How you doing, man?

[Mike Bassett]: thank you very much for having me on 

[Nick McGowan]: in fact well i’m glad that you’re here i appreciate your team reaching out to

[Nick McGowan]: me i’m excited to get into everything we were kind of shooing the breeze a

[Nick McGowan]: little bit before this and i’m sure we’re goin to have a great conversation so

[Nick McGowan]: why don’t you give us some context tell us one thing for living and one

[Nick McGowan]: thing that most people don’t know about you

[Mike Bassett]: so what

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: i do for living at its most

basic level is i help people who find

[Mike Bassett]: themselves in need of help so the

answer of two things most people are one

[Mike Bassett]: thing most people don’t know about me

i’m going to give you the sir so

[Mike Bassett]: i’m going to give you

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: the not so serious

[Nick McGowan]: kay

[Mike Bassett]: so most people who

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: probably most people don’t know about me

as i spent about a year of my

[Mike Bassett]: life as a lawyer wondering if i

was going to go to federal prison that’s

[Mike Bassett]: the serious the not so

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: serious part while i look like an

n p r dream downer i absolutely

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: love metal

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: music tool black sabbath um talk

[Nick McGowan]: beautiful

[Mike Bassett]: anything like that anything my late

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: mother god rest her soul would say

they’re screaming at me i’m all in

[Nick McGowan]: awesome right

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: off the bat whenever somebody says i’m

in to tool like we’re just going to

[Nick McGowan]: become friends at that point totally

[Mike Bassett]: yes

[Nick McGowan]: good

[Mike Bassett]: yes

[Nick McGowan]: man i got to be honest though

it’s fun say you look

[Mike Bassett]: m

[Nick McGowan]: like somebody from m p r or

something like that i judged a book by

[Nick McGowan]: its cover recently maybe four or five

months ago recently where i was at a

[Nick McGowan]: conference

[Mike Bassett]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: worked with this company and Bla Bla Bla

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: needed to go talk to some guy

who works with this company and needed to

[Nick McGowan]: get something from them guys very normal

guy normal looking dude had in a little

[Nick McGowan]: slightly larger suit you know than he

probably needed where like he didn’t care he

[Nick McGowan]: was like fun don’t give a shit

and he’s doing his thing i judged this

[Nick McGowan]: guy where i was like what kind

of art are you you know whatever and

[Nick McGowan]: we started talking about something and i

was just like a man randomly like what

[Nick McGowan]: kind of music into just like shooting

ship with him because we’re standing there he

[Nick McGowan]: was like well i like a lot

of periphery and michugaandik starts going into heavy

[Nick McGowan]: stuff and he’s like i’m recently i

saw this awesome new band at some tiny

[Nick McGowan]: as little club and everything changed i

looked at the kyliht what so

[Mike Bassett]: in that blank

[Nick McGowan]: you got to give

[Mike Bassett]: in

[Nick McGowan]: us

[Mike Bassett]: that blank moment in that blank

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: moment you judged him and you’re like

you know what you’re a different guy than

[Mike Bassett]: i thought you were

[Nick McGowan]: totally and i caught myself because i

was like how dare i judge

[Mike Bassett]: u

[Nick McGowan]: when i should just be open

[Mike Bassett]: h

[Nick McGowan]: you know

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: i love that sort of stuff and

i love you know you can have that

[Nick McGowan]: sort of magical moment where you’re like

i’m going to judge the hell out of

[Nick McGowan]: guy and he’s like but you have

no idea that i love crazy technical math

[Nick McGowan]: rock or like

[Mike Bassett]: h

[Nick McGowan]: metal music

[Mike Bassett]: m

[Nick McGowan]: oh man so that’s cool that you’re

that you’re into that why is that something

[Nick McGowan]: that do you you play music or

you just kind of a big metal guy

[Nick McGowan]: how does this all work in what

you do

[Mike Bassett]: well so

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: started when i was growing up back

in the seventies

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: and eighties i had a nineteen seventy

six el camino coolest

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Mike Bassett]: car ever and i worked for money

and i said you know i’m going to

[Mike Bassett]: get me a stereo in it and

i got a stereo that had a power

[Mike Bassett]: booster and sub wolfers and tweeters and

it was

[Nick McGowan]: nice

[Mike Bassett]: the best ever and then i always

liked music so it was the cars it

[Mike Bassett]: was all kind of that stuff and

it was loud then i was fortunate nough

[Mike Bassett]: to have two sons who are now

in their thirties they became music efficianatos so

[Mike Bassett]: when they came of age and started

listening to stuff in the car they’d say

[Mike Bassett]: dude check this out check this band

out tell me what you think of this

[Mike Bassett]: so really that’s where a lot of

my current music comes from as one

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Mike Bassett]: of my sons will come over i

do check this out listen to what i’m

[Mike Bassett]: listening to now that’s where i get

a lot of it

[Nick McGowan]: anything new that you can share that

he’s been like hey due check this out

[Mike Bassett]: i’m thinking he yes there was there

is a country western channel on pandora that’s

[Mike Bassett]: name will come to me and it’s

a female and imagine it’s it’s a mix

[Mike Bassett]: between patsy cline and evanescence so that’s

what it’s like and it’s just really good

[Mike Bassett]: music but very obscure

[Nick McGowan]: is it called spirit box

[Mike Bassett]: i don’t think so at my age

it will come to me about half

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: way through this conversation or

[Nick McGowan]: fair

[Mike Bassett]: at

[Nick McGowan]: enough

[Mike Bassett]: two thirty tomorrow morning but if

[Nick McGowan]: exactly

[Mike Bassett]: it does i’ll just interrupt you

[Nick McGowan]: just yeah well if it happens at

two thirty in the morning you won’t be

[Nick McGowan]: able to interrupt me you should be

a text though

[Mike Bassett]: exactly

[Nick McGowan]: that’s funny yeah so

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: so the reason why ask you about

spirit box is that guy that i was

[Nick McGowan]: talking to was like yeah just all

spirit box who is basically it’s a female

[Nick McGowan]: lead metal band

[Mike Bassett]: okay

[Nick McGowan]: and it’s kind of like evanescence meet

pat cline in certain ways so it’s either

[Nick McGowan]: spirit box or ginger those are kind

of the newer ones we are now going

[Nick McGowan]: on to a completely different topic than

mind sentence self mastery at this point

[Mike Bassett]: you

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: know what i can dance backwards and

high heels if that’s where you want

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: to go i’m here for you dude

i’m here

[Nick McGowan]: that’s

[Mike Bassett]: for you

[Nick McGowan]: the way it should be man so

well so that’s the thing that people don’t

[Nick McGowan]: know about you but need to so

thank you for bringing that up now

[Mike Bassett]: absolutely

[Nick McGowan]: tell me you’re your little saul goodman

situation that’s going on here

[Mike Bassett]: you know so

[Nick McGowan]: thinking you were going to go to

jail for a bit

[Mike Bassett]: yeah so i’m goin to give you

a law a story that unfolded over a

[Mike Bassett]: long time and i’m going to boil

it down into about a minute

[Nick McGowan]: right

[Mike Bassett]: i was a guy that i worked

with it was a client of mine that

[Mike Bassett]: i trusted that i thought i ad

become very close with he put me in

[Mike Bassett]: a position where i either

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: had to help him embezzle money he

would pull all of his business that’s it

[Mike Bassett]: in thirty seconds or less

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: made the bad choice

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: helped him the consequences were although brutal

an almost burned everything to the ground were

[Mike Bassett]: absolutely purifying and looking back on it

probably the best thing that ever happened to

[Mike Bassett]: me

[Nick McGowan]: well this is basically the rest of

the episode at this point because there’s

[Mike Bassett]: we go

[Nick McGowan]: a lot in that

[Mike Bassett]: there

[Nick McGowan]: i mean

[Mike Bassett]: is

[Nick McGowan]: let’s talk to us about your mind

set in that space of going well i

[Nick McGowan]: got two different options and both of

them are great how did you handle

[Mike Bassett]: you know

[Nick McGowan]: that

[Mike Bassett]: so it’s funny we find ourselves in

these situations nick and i think the biggest

[Mike Bassett]: problem the biggest mistake we made is

we think we are alone in that situation

[Mike Bassett]: we think

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: that it is you and the person

in front of you or you and the

[Mike Bassett]: problem in front of you and what

i did is i thought i was alone

[Mike Bassett]: and when we are alone and when

we don’t turn to people i don’t think

[Mike Bassett]: that’s when we make very good choices

i know i’m painting with a roller at

[Mike Bassett]: this point but i think

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: it’s a truism

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: and i found myself self isolated and

made a decision if you want to be

[Mike Bassett]: brutally honest a standpoint of being a

six year old and thinking

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: if i don’t do this then this

person is going to leave and it will

[Mike Bassett]: be bad for my career

[Nick McGowan]: oh do you have something that happened

when you were a little kid that you

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: kind of

[Mike Bassett]: so

[Nick McGowan]: tied

[Mike Bassett]: you know

[Nick McGowan]: back

[Mike Bassett]: what

[Nick McGowan]: to

[Mike Bassett]: yeah so what happened

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: was that i was fortunate enough to

be adopted i was fortunate enough to be

[Mike Bassett]: adopted

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Mike Bassett]: and my adopted parents knew my natural

mother they knew her which was great

[Nick McGowan]: wow

[Mike Bassett]: so i never had to do the

whole i wonder who my mom is you

[Mike Bassett]: know drive across america have a lifetime

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: show on that i knew who it

was but when you’re four or five and

[Mike Bassett]: six year old and you’re going between

you know your mother’s house and you’re soon

[Mike Bassett]: to be adopted parents house you kind

of start to think maybe things you are

[Mike Bassett]: doing because e’s a five

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: year old world revolves

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: around you you tend to think things

you do are what drives other people’s decisions

[Mike Bassett]: i can tell you after years and

years and years and thousands and thousands and

[Mike Bassett]: thousands of dollars of counselling that’s not

the right way to think it’s the way

[Mike Bassett]: a lot of us do think nick

[Nick McGowan]: yeah you’re totally right i think most

problems don’t want to say a hundred per

[Nick McGowan]: cent but i’m up there at the

ninety nine percent tile that they all come

[Nick McGowan]: from childhood there’s some sort of trauma

that we went through as a child that

[Nick McGowan]: we haven’t either processed through or haven’t

fully processed through so can you boil down

[Nick McGowan]: a bit what steps you took going

through that past trauma and kind of figuring

[Nick McGowan]: out what do you do with that

now as an adult

[Mike Bassett]: yeah so one of the things is

you continue to work on it every day

[Mike Bassett]: it is not something

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: at least for

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: me nick that you say okay i’m

gonna go to counseling and after six months

[Mike Bassett]: i’ve

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: done check that off and i’ll

[Nick McGowan]: ye

[Mike Bassett]: never have to deal with that again

and i’m speaking

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: for me and for nobody else it

is something i continually

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: have to re assert and re think

about and recalebrate

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: on for instance two or three weeks

ago i had a situation very very contentious

[Mike Bassett]: situation in the case and i was

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: visiting with my wife and i said

cut it’s feeling so much anxiety and you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: know she’s so patient and she peeled

away the layers of the onion she goes

[Mike Bassett]: you know you’re not six anymore

[Nick McGowan]: yeh

[Mike Bassett]: i’m like you know what

[Nick McGowan]: damn

[Mike Bassett]: you’re fucking right i’m not

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: it took that so it’s first off

something you have to keep

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: in mind top of mind but second

i think you need to surround yourself with

[Mike Bassett]: and go seek good help i have

a theory that there are two kinds of

[Mike Bassett]: people in this world nick um and


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: apologize

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: if i’m gonna offend the others i

think there’s

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: people that need or should be in

counseling and there are people that are in

[Mike Bassett]: denial

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: and i

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: was fortunate enough to be able to

get counseling and afford it and it helped

[Mike Bassett]: a great deal

[Nick McGowan]: good points those people that would hear

that are either not listeners of the show

[Nick McGowan]: or they’re not going to listen

[Mike Bassett]: i

[Nick McGowan]: for very much longer

[Mike Bassett]: m

[Nick McGowan]: because what we talk about on this

is about actually getting the help and some

[Nick McGowan]: of that help comes from therapist comes

from coaches comes from mentors

[Mike Bassett]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: it comes from people that you work

with it comes from all over the place

[Nick McGowan]: there are certain people that can see

somebody else’s situation and go oh not to

[Nick McGowan]: self don’t go down that path and

they can change that but i don’t i

[Nick McGowan]: don’t think there’s anybody in the world

that doesn’t have it all dot nobody’s perfect

[Nick McGowan]: so it does just doesn’t happen that

way but what do you do now like

[Nick McGowan]: daily to be able to continue to

work on that

[Mike Bassett]: and so for instance i’ve got a

coach i visit with every wednesday or now

[Mike Bassett]: every saturday i have been since the

pandemic because it was just you know everything

[Mike Bassett]: changed

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: it’s something i

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: continued to read about

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Mike Bassett]: something i continue to think about i

surround myself with like minded people who are

[Mike Bassett]: very much

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: into self awareness i’m fortunate enough that

i’m able to go on silent retreats with

[Mike Bassett]: the jesuits who every year go away

for about eight or ten days into silence

[Nick McGowan]: m ah

[Mike Bassett]: it’s just fantastic so it’s something i

do daily i don’t know if you can’t

[Mike Bassett]: see it right now but so let

me do this so yeah so when i

[Mike Bassett]: start to feel like i’m being beaten


[Nick McGowan]: ah

[Mike Bassett]: and when life’s little thing start

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: to pick at you you know like

you’re being pecked to death by a chicken

[Mike Bassett]: nick you know that feeling

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: and

[Nick McGowan]: yep

[Mike Bassett]: then your little voice starts saying nick

you’re failure nick you suck

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: nick you can’t do this this is

what i look at

[Nick McGowan]: nice

[Mike Bassett]: big small so

[Nick McGowan]: you’re

[Mike Bassett]: it’s

[Nick McGowan]: killing

[Mike Bassett]: a take

[Nick McGowan]: me

[Mike Bassett]: of

[Nick McGowan]: smalls

[Mike Bassett]: course of course it’s a take on

sand lot but i’m

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: a big big small fan too and

i just tell myself you know what you’re

[Mike Bassett]: killing me this this negative cell dock

is killing me step

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: back a bit realize i’m not six


[Nick McGowan]: oh man that childhood drama childhood drama

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: keeps coming up

[Mike Bassett]: but

[Nick McGowan]: often wonder

[Mike Bassett]: but it doesn’t

[Nick McGowan]: how many

[Mike Bassett]: define

[Nick McGowan]: people

[Mike Bassett]: us

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: but here’s the deal nick i want

to be very clear about this this is

[Mike Bassett]: not something where you go around and

say listen i had a shifty childhood here’s

[Mike Bassett]: a news flash most people had

[Nick McGowan]: everybody

[Mike Bassett]: a shifty childhood

[Nick McGowan]: did yeah

[Mike Bassett]: okay mine was nothing near as bad

as people that i know was nothing

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: near as bad but it’s just what


[Nick McGowan]: my

[Mike Bassett]: to you it’s not the question of

does it happen to you the question is

[Mike Bassett]: how are you going to deal with


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: really how are you going to deal

with it and i think i think you

[Mike Bassett]: can take it and make yourself a

better version of yourself and also make sure

[Mike Bassett]: that people in your life world don’t

end up being sub jected to the ship

[Mike Bassett]: you were subjected to

[Nick McGowan]: yeah that’s a good point you know

you’ve got kids now so your

[Mike Bassett]: uh

[Nick McGowan]: kids are are they your kids or

they adopted kids they’re

[Mike Bassett]: no i’ve

[Nick McGowan]: actually

[Mike Bassett]: got

[Nick McGowan]: yours

[Mike Bassett]: two sons no i’ve got

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Mike Bassett]: two sons they would deny there are

days they would deny that i

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Mike Bassett]: am their father but i was

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Mike Bassett]: there

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: for them and here’s here’s something

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: you talk about raising kids so my

wife and i decided when we had kids

[Mike Bassett]: said you know what we don’t know

anything about parenting we know how to make

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: a kid but we don’t know how


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: do anything about parenting so early on

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: we studied up a lot on parenting

we went to seminars

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: we read books and it really us

in a position with a lot of people

[Mike Bassett]: we knew that they’re like why don’t

you hit your kids why don’t you spank

[Mike Bassett]: your kids

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: we’re like you know what i don’t

think that really works

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: and so we found ourselves not on

the outs but disagreeing in fundamental ways with

[Mike Bassett]: a lot of

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: people on how we were going to

raise our kids but it was a decision

[Mike Bassett]: we made and it was very conscious

and intentional de cis and nick

[Nick McGowan]: if only more people made that decision

well before having kids it’s like

[Mike Bassett]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: people should have a test to be

able to have kids instead of just the

[Nick McGowan]: test being sex

[Mike Bassett]: what was the line i

[Nick McGowan]: ye

[Mike Bassett]: think father of the bride

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: they’re talking about having kids and he’s

like you know any but ramon asshole can

[Mike Bassett]: be

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: dad but you have to have a


[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: to be a barber which is true

you cannot

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Mike Bassett]: cut people

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Mike Bassett]: there without

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: a license what you is

[Nick McGowan]: yeah one hundred percent yeah they should

give up the licence for kids

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: so growing up the way that you

did with

[Mike Bassett]: yes

[Nick McGowan]: a unique experience of being able to

go back and forth between your um and

[Nick McGowan]: your new adoptive parents i feel like

there’s probably a lot that’s in that that

[Nick McGowan]: you had that all right well i

was there and now i’m here so

[Mike Bassett]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: how did you how do you and

that being a father and showing your kids

[Nick McGowan]: love and still kind of processing through

that stuff because you’re igh you’re not six

[Nick McGowan]: anymore but that’s still coming up

[Mike Bassett]: yeah you know i think when when

my sons were growing up i was all

[Mike Bassett]: about stability

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: and all about routine because you know

the deal was when you’re a three year

[Mike Bassett]: old you do better with the routine

this is my impression of four or five

[Mike Bassett]: year old so

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: it was every night i would get

home we would try to have dinner at

[Mike Bassett]: a certain time we would read stories

we’d play we’d get a bath we read

[Mike Bassett]: a story

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: we’d go to bed and i was

all about just

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: a routine to give them grounding and

that they would know there’s not going to

[Mike Bassett]: be a lot of chaos because when

i was growing up there was chaos just

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: chaos all the time so even as

an adult even as an adult nick when

[Mike Bassett]: i leave my office today it looks

like a surgical

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: suite

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: i cannot stand

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: clutter can’t stand it and this is

from when i was

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: six years old

[Nick McGowan]: now do you think you’ve gotten to

an o c d level with that or

[Nick McGowan]: you had a

[Mike Bassett]: no

[Nick McGowan]: nice balance

[Mike Bassett]: no this is my personal space now

in our house

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Mike Bassett]: and raise and you know raising two

sons that were ighteen months apart it looked

[Mike Bassett]: like it

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: looked like a disaster zone most days

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Mike Bassett]: rooms were just bio hazards

[Nick McGowan]: i bet

[Mike Bassett]: ut in my closet

[Nick McGowan]: smelled like lockers

[Mike Bassett]: in my closet all my ships straight

that’s because that’s where i like it in

[Mike Bassett]: my office

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: all of my stuff is straight

[Nick McGowan]: without going through all of your childhood

are there any major episodes or moments that

[Nick McGowan]: stand out to you where you can

look back and go and that was a

[Nick McGowan]: moment that changed me

[Mike Bassett]: yeah a couple of them one i

can remember graduating

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Mike Bassett]: from high school so this is nineteen

seventy nine back when dynasours were rimming the

[Mike Bassett]: earth

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: and the crust was still cooling and


[Nick McGowan]: ye

[Mike Bassett]: i graduated from my school and all

of my buddies got cars

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Mike Bassett]: or they

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: were going on

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: vacations and it was just lavish so

i remember graduating and there was an overnight

[Mike Bassett]: party at a downtown hotel that i

went to i came home and remember my

[Mike Bassett]: dad was in the front yard raking

leaves and i came home

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: and he came over and shook my

hand and said congratulations

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: you have

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: now met the minimum requirements for education

in the state of texas slap me on

[Mike Bassett]: the back and that was it

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: you got a high school degree another

[Nick McGowan]: all right

[Mike Bassett]: moment i can remember very very vividly

so i was the youngest of five adopted

[Mike Bassett]: my

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: oldest brother

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: who is now deceased

[Nick McGowan]: right

[Mike Bassett]: was a highly decorated army officer so

i remember i’m in college so it’s about

[Mike Bassett]: eighty one eighty two and

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Mike Bassett]: i think i’m ten foot

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: tall and

[Nick McGowan]: ah

[Mike Bassett]: bullet proof so we’re

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: at the house and he’s home on

leave probably at christmas and i remember sitting

[Mike Bassett]: in the little bathroom that was in

the back of the house and he’s brushing

[Mike Bassett]: his teeth and i’m going on and

about school and college and this and that

[Mike Bassett]: now this is a guy that started

got out of a and like in sixty

[Mike Bassett]: two so he had been already been

in the dominican republic he had been in

[Mike Bassett]: viam he had been in all these

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: places and i remember him listening to


[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: and he spit out his tooth paste

and said you know when you do something

[Mike Bassett]: outside of fifty seventy one metal lark

that was our house come talk to me

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: i’m like

[Nick McGowan]: jees

[Mike Bassett]: it’s harsh

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: it was true

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: it was really true which taught me

a lot about humility so i got to

[Mike Bassett]: tell you those two things like yesterday

nick i can remember

[Nick McGowan]: it’s interesting what do you think really

stood out about your father saying cool congrats

[Nick McGowan]: and moving along

[Mike Bassett]: you know because he was one that

it was always about you need to make

[Mike Bassett]: your own way he left home when

he was

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: fourteen enrolled in enlisted in the army

and lied about his age so

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: you talk about a guy that was

tough as shoe

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: leather that was my old man and

the message was really clear nobody is going

[Mike Bassett]: to give you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: anything

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: hard work is the coin of the

realm treat everybody with respect you fear nobody

[Mike Bassett]: but you respect everybody and that was

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: what i was brought up with

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: and if you wanted money go hustle

and work if you wanted something go get

[Mike Bassett]: it if you wanted to do something

that’s on you and so i distinctly

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: remember

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: growing up i was fortunate i grew

up in an affluent neighborhood with my friends

[Mike Bassett]: and everybody that got cars my dad’s

like you want a car yeh he goes

[Mike Bassett]: that cost money

[Nick McGowan]: go

[Mike Bassett]: tat’s

[Nick McGowan]: buy it

[Mike Bassett]: what i hear

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: it’s a it’s a special relationship to

have with with your

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: father in that sort of sense where

there’s a respect

[Mike Bassett]: ye

[Nick McGowan]: which is different

[Mike Bassett]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: i had some friends growing up that

had loads of money and i had other

[Nick McGowan]: friends that had no money at all

like at all and it was different to

[Nick McGowan]: see how parents read acted with their

kids and how they treated their kids and

[Nick McGowan]: how even some of the super rich

kids their parents just gave them things because

[Nick McGowan]: they’re trying to buy them love but

there are a couple of them that were

[Nick McGowan]: like you know what i know that

you want to go get this and i

[Nick McGowan]: have a lot of money but i

have a lot of money so you need

[Nick McGowan]: to go do the things to be

able to create what you want and they

[Nick McGowan]: were like fun all right and they’re

better off for it

[Mike Bassett]: you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: know absolutely

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: it’s funny so remember my old man

when i come along at five he is

[Mike Bassett]: fifty so imagine yourself being fifty having

a five year old okay

[Nick McGowan]: geez

[Mike Bassett]: so i can remember that all of

my buddies growing up m all of them

[Mike Bassett]: would want to go out and ride

motorcycles okay my dad’s

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: like you are not riding a motorcycle

you’re not doing it and yet if i

[Mike Bassett]: wanted to drink

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: at the house he let me sit

here and drink beer drink beer you want

[Mike Bassett]: to go out in the desert and

shoot guns go out in the desert and

[Mike Bassett]: shoot guns but by god you’re not

getting on a motor cycle and you’re never

[Mike Bassett]: spending the night at somebody else’s house

and nothing good happens after nine o’clock night

[Mike Bassett]: i just remember growing up so it

was a juxta position where

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: some of my friends their parents would

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: die if they knew they were drinking

boos my dad was

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: like if you want to drink drink


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: i can i can watch you make

sure you don’t do anything stupid

[Nick McGowan]: he can’t watch you or watch the

car that’s driving by your bike to knock

[Nick McGowan]: you off that bike

[Mike Bassett]: you know fifteen year old on a

motor cycle i think if you google recipe

[Mike Bassett]: for disaster that’s one of the top

three pictures that’s

[Nick McGowan]: of

[Mike Bassett]: my humble opinion

[Nick McGowan]: hm so were you kind of similar

with your with your sons that they can’t

[Nick McGowan]: ride a motorcycle

[Mike Bassett]: no well in a way i was

simply because what i do is a lawyer

[Mike Bassett]: i’m a civil defense lawyer and i

defend personal injury cases so i remember my

[Mike Bassett]: sons came up and said we want

an a t v i said you’re out

[Mike Bassett]: of your mind you’re never getting an

a t v ever on

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: those things flip you’re going to be

killed dad we want we want a go

[Mike Bassett]: cart unfortunately i had a couple o

cases where people got really hurt and go

[Mike Bassett]: cars no i’m not going to do

that i’m just not so yeah unfortunately i

[Mike Bassett]: was like that maybe for different reasons

than my dad but yeah

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: if you would talk to them separately

they say i ruined their life in a

[Mike Bassett]: lot of ways like that

[Nick McGowan]: oh i’m sure at the same time

they probably also love the hell out

[Mike Bassett]: m

[Nick McGowan]: of you but

[Mike Bassett]: i think i think

[Nick McGowan]: don’t know

[Mike Bassett]: if you got them in a weak

moment they would

[Nick McGowan]: m aha that’s interesting man there’s a

it’s interesting in the things that we can

[Nick McGowan]: kind of latch on to that

[Mike Bassett]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: may have an effect because of the

deliverance of it like your dad was like

[Nick McGowan]: you’re not going to do that but

you can go do these things and be

[Nick McGowan]: like all right cool i can tell

that you’re you’re pretty high on this level

[Nick McGowan]: about this thing so i’m not going

to go do that or maybe you push

[Nick McGowan]: it a little bit but it’s interesting

now some people turn that and and they

[Nick McGowan]: use that on their own its they’re

like well this is what i was taught

[Nick McGowan]: and it’s kind of the mind set

area of it you know like i was

[Nick McGowan]: raised this way so damn it this

is how you’re going to be and it

[Nick McGowan]: sounds

[Mike Bassett]: you

[Nick McGowan]: like you’ve

[Mike Bassett]: know

[Nick McGowan]: shifted

[Mike Bassett]: what i

[Nick McGowan]: some of that

[Mike Bassett]: well and what we tried to do

is take the best of it so my

[Mike Bassett]: dad

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: was very much listen hard work if

you want something hard work is the way

[Mike Bassett]: to go so we raised our sons

like that now my mom

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: who was artist i mean she was

a hippy she was a bohemian all right

[Mike Bassett]: and she always told me michael you

are so smart you can do whatever you

[Mike Bassett]: want to do this is before positive

self talk michael if

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: you want to go do it you’re

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: smart enough go do it i absolutely

believe in you i remember when i studied

[Mike Bassett]: for the bar exam okay so you

studied for six weeks to take a test

[Mike Bassett]: that lasts three days you’re going to

be a lawyer so i get out of

[Mike Bassett]: the exam the first day and she

calls me how do you do i said

[Mike Bassett]: i knew the answer to two questions

and then the next day she goes how

[Mike Bassett]: do you do i said i knew

the answer to one question and then the

[Mike Bassett]: third day i said i’m not going

to be a lawyer and so then then

[Mike Bassett]: you have to wait four months to

get the bar exam results and i’m

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: like ma i’m gonna not gonna be

a lawyer i think

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: i’m gonna have to go you know

something i can’t do it she’s like michael

[Mike Bassett]: you’re going to be fine you’re going

to be fine when i passed it she’s

[Mike Bassett]: like i told you so she never

doubted we tried to pick

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: that up with our sons where we

absolutely believed in them

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: and that was something she always did

for me

[Nick McGowan]: ah that’s a powerful thing to believe

in your kids i think there’s also balance

[Nick McGowan]: like all things you don’t want to

be like oh

[Mike Bassett]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: my kids the best kid in the

world he gets

[Mike Bassett]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: all the trophies you know not want

to be like that but i think that’s

[Nick McGowan]: also a good point where we we

kind of are on the side of either

[Nick McGowan]: growth mindset or fix mind set because


[Mike Bassett]: i’m

[Nick McGowan]: are certain

[Mike Bassett]: all

[Nick McGowan]: people

[Mike Bassett]: about carol deck yes

[Nick McGowan]: yes big time and some

[Mike Bassett]: i have

[Nick McGowan]: people

[Mike Bassett]: got

[Nick McGowan]: will

[Mike Bassett]: her

[Nick McGowan]: get in that spot

[Mike Bassett]: yes i’ve got er thing on my

desk absolutely oh

[Nick McGowan]: can

[Mike Bassett]: you’re

[Nick McGowan]: you see

[Mike Bassett]: the

[Nick McGowan]: it back

[Mike Bassett]: best

[Nick McGowan]: here

[Mike Bassett]: and so so true story we are

we have several family group texts that have

[Mike Bassett]: like

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Mike Bassett]: twenty seven people a piece in the


[Nick McGowan]: jes

[Mike Bassett]: and someone will do great on their

science project and then the text just blows

[Mike Bassett]: up and what it’s funny liz and

i my wife and i instead of saying

[Mike Bassett]: you’re so smart i’m so proud of

you it’ll always be like i can see

[Mike Bassett]: you work really hard on

[Nick McGowan]: a

[Mike Bassett]: that

[Nick McGowan]: great

[Mike Bassett]: in

[Nick McGowan]: work

[Mike Bassett]: put a lot of work into it

good for you

[Nick McGowan]: yep

[Mike Bassett]: and it’s a

[Nick McGowan]: straight

[Mike Bassett]: it’s

[Nick McGowan]: out of

[Mike Bassett]: a

[Nick McGowan]: the

[Mike Bassett]: different

[Nick McGowan]: pages

[Mike Bassett]: way of looking at

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: dude if it works it works

[Nick McGowan]: work exactly such a beautiful thing and

really when you think of that growth and

[Nick McGowan]: that fixed mindset how many people just

are on the side of the fixed of

[Nick McGowan]: like oh you you are super intelligent

you have all this intelligence it’s like no

[Nick McGowan]: fucking most people don’t in fact none

of us really do

[Mike Bassett]: now just i think the question is

how hard are you willing to work for

[Mike Bassett]: it

[Nick McGowan]: yeah exactly

[Mike Bassett]: and what effort are you willing to

put what effort are you willing to put

[Mike Bassett]: in for it and if you don’t

want to put a bunch of effort to

[Mike Bassett]: it that’s cool

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: you’re not going to get to where

you need to be or you want to

[Mike Bassett]: be

[Nick McGowan]: yeah so tell us how did you

get into wanting to become a lawyer because

[Nick McGowan]: that’s not an easy thing to get

into and then stick with

[Mike Bassett]: so i’m a i’m a sophomore in

high school and i’m in government class and

[Mike Bassett]: we’re studying the judiciary and our teacher

says okay we’re gonna have a mock trial

[Mike Bassett]: what is this she goes it’s going

to be a murder case i’m going to

[Mike Bassett]: choose one student to be the prosecutor

and one the defense lawyer so i got

[Mike Bassett]: chosen volunteered i don’t know to be

the defense lawyer and they gave you a

[Mike Bassett]: case

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: they gave you some thing to work

with and i’m like this is really interesting

[Mike Bassett]: so i thought you know what i

know a family friend who is a criminal

[Mike Bassett]: defense lawyer and i’m gonna go talk

to him so i went and talk to

[Mike Bassett]: him i said here’s this case i’ve

got what do you suggest

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: and he started talking to me and

i was like i dig this so i

[Mike Bassett]: didn’t have to do

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: my geometry homework i’m like

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Mike Bassett]: all right

[Nick McGowan]: h yah

[Mike Bassett]: and so i did it and i

was hooked and i knew from the time

[Mike Bassett]: i was a

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: sophomore i was going to be a

lawyer now my old man was like that’s

[Mike Bassett]: great for you you need to get

a business degree in case you can’t be

[Mike Bassett]: a lawyer so i got two college

degrees in accounting and management just in case

[Mike Bassett]: the law thing didn’t work yeah i


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: from the time i was a sophomore

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: in high school

[Nick McGowan]: that’s pretty awesome man there are lots

of people that think they know what they

[Nick McGowan]: want to do in there in high

school and have no idea even in their

[Nick McGowan]: thirties or

[Mike Bassett]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: forties

[Mike Bassett]: it was sarandipitos and and i used

to you talk about judging people

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: i would hear people you know when

their late twenties gone i don’t know what

[Mike Bassett]: to do i’m like how do you

not know what to do but then

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: i realized i was just so fortunate

that i’ve glaumed on to something i

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: truly enjoy that people will pay me

to do and so i’m the luckiest guy

[Mike Bassett]: in the world when it comes to


[Nick McGowan]: don’t love how that stuff lines up

you get to use your skills do the

[Nick McGowan]: things that make sense to you but

it took you taking steps to be able

[Nick McGowan]: to do that now tell us

[Mike Bassett]: m

[Nick McGowan]: about the process that you went through

to be able to not only go right

[Nick McGowan]: this is what i want to do

but to walk down that path and to

[Nick McGowan]: manage your mindset during those really fucking

tough times

[Mike Bassett]: so i graduate from the university of

texas at el paso a harvard on the

[Mike Bassett]: border go minors and

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: i’m thinking i’m the cat’s ass i’ve

almost got a four point on one of

[Mike Bassett]: the top ten seniors i get accepted

to law school only because only because i

[Mike Bassett]: took the l s a t when

i was still drunk and my scores were

[Mike Bassett]: really shifty but liz parents knew a

lot of people in the catholic church in

[Mike Bassett]: san antonio so i get accepted to

saint mary’s

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: never been to saint mary’s

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: i had never been to san antonio

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: i go down there and i’m like

okay i got this i got the law

[Mike Bassett]: school thing figured out i knew how

to do college i can do law

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: school great so the first thing you


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: is they gave you one test per

class in law school when i went if

[Mike Bassett]: you took five five classes you took

five tests one at the end of the

[Mike Bassett]: year for each class i’m like well

that’s sort of weird but okay

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: and so you would take your finals

but say you’re done the second

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Mike Bassett]: week of december back then again we

were still coming out of the the the

[Mike Bassett]: dynasor age you would if you wanted

your grades early you would you would self

[Mike Bassett]: address a postcard address it to yourself

and on the back you would put contracts

[Mike Bassett]: or torts or whatever and you would

wait for the grades so the grades didn’t

[Mike Bassett]: come until february so we are well

into our second semestra of loss cool neck

[Mike Bassett]: okay we’re back

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: in and i go down and get

my first grades that come in two or

[Mike Bassett]: three post cards come in and i’m


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: shit i do not know what i

am doing at this

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: point i’m like

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: out

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: of a class of three hundred

[Nick McGowan]: o

[Mike Bassett]: and something i’m like to eighty i

mean i’m not

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: in the basement but i’m at the

top of the stairs to the basement i’m

[Mike Bassett]: like well this is not going to


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: i’m doing something wrong so i realized

i got to change my game so i

[Mike Bassett]: realized

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: you know what i need to do

i need to record these lectures and listen

[Mike Bassett]: to him afterwards and re do my

notes and type them up because that’s how

[Mike Bassett]: i learn and i was

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: fortunate that i went from there graduating

three years later number twelve in a class

[Mike Bassett]: of a hundred and ninety one it

was only because path i was on was

[Mike Bassett]: not going to work out because you

got to remember

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: when i graduated

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: i was married and already had a


[Nick McGowan]: wow

[Mike Bassett]: and now i thought i’ve got to

do better than this and so i realized

[Mike Bassett]: i had to work smarter and work

harder and work differently the old tools nick

[Mike Bassett]: although they were good in college no

good in law school

[Nick McGowan]: that’s interesting that you had your wife

and your kid i guess already as that

[Nick McGowan]: why where you’re like ship i can’t

go backwards we’ve

[Mike Bassett]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: got to make

[Mike Bassett]: no

[Nick McGowan]: this thing happen

[Mike Bassett]: no when i was studying for the

bar i would say you know i’d be

[Mike Bassett]: lamenting

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Mike Bassett]: i’m just not do this i can’t

do this and my wife was like yeah

[Mike Bassett]: you are

[Nick McGowan]: you can you are you will

[Mike Bassett]: you will you’re going to

[Nick McGowan]: um an so it sounds like you’ve

got a good support system with your wife

[Nick McGowan]: as well and you brought that up

a little bit ago about being able to

[Nick McGowan]: have the right people that are around

you so there are certain

[Mike Bassett]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: people that listen to this show that

are like you i they’re ambitious they go

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: after things but they don’t always have

that core group around them

[Mike Bassett]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: maybe because they’re kind

[Mike Bassett]: m

[Nick McGowan]: of evolving in their past that

[Mike Bassett]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: so what kind of advice would you

give somebody to be able to find that

[Nick McGowan]: core group or that good group of


[Mike Bassett]: first off i think you got to

reach out to people i think if you

[Mike Bassett]: wait for people to come to you

and say hey nick you look like you

[Mike Bassett]: could really use sementering that’s never happened

to me so i was fortunate when i

[Mike Bassett]: would go on these retreats and meet

these priests or i would be out professionally

[Mike Bassett]: and i would meet somebody i would

just say listen i really

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: i think that i can learn a

lot from you can i buy you breakfast

[Mike Bassett]: and that’s how it always

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: started with me can i buy you

breakfast can i just visit can i ask

[Mike Bassett]: you a bunch of questions and maybe

one time somebody kind of gave me the

[Mike Bassett]: cold shoulder after thirty five years of

doing this only one person has ever given

[Mike Bassett]: me the cold shoulder and when i

was in my forties i was in my

[Mike Bassett]: forties i would always look at people

in their sixties and seventies now that i’m

[Mike Bassett]: sixty and turning sixty one i’m starting

to look back at some of the young

[Mike Bassett]: guns say and listen

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: can i

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: buy you breakfast because i need to

really i think you’re on to something and

[Mike Bassett]: i want to learn from you so

i think you’re going to do you’ve got

[Mike Bassett]: to be a lifelong learner but you


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: to go out and seek people

[Nick McGowan]: may

[Mike Bassett]: seek people that are putting out into

the world what you want to put out

[Mike Bassett]: when you find those people be bold

i remember so there’s a guy you know

[Mike Bassett]: greg mccuan

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Mike Bassett]: wrote the book essentialism great book

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Mike Bassett]: great book i read his book i’m

like i will tell you how how good

[Mike Bassett]: this book was my wife had to

attend a conference in vegas i went out

[Mike Bassett]: whither

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: i spent a day and a half

in the hot

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Mike Bassett]: room reading this book that’s

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Mike Bassett]: how good

[Nick McGowan]: huh

[Mike Bassett]: it was and i’m like

[Nick McGowan]: well

[Mike Bassett]: you know what i did what he’s

selling i think he should be a speaker

[Mike Bassett]: at our firm retreat and everybody’s like

are you kidding me he’s like a new

[Mike Bassett]: york times best seller not going to

return your call i’m like okay

[Nick McGowan]: right

[Mike Bassett]: so i got in touch with him

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: and he said sure i’ll do it

so that’s

[Nick McGowan]: beautiful

[Mike Bassett]: the kind of thing i’m talking about

just to

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: ask

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: just

[Nick McGowan]: that’s a

[Mike Bassett]: ask

[Nick McGowan]: great point so many people get afraid

of the bullshit in their own head but

[Nick McGowan]: they’re like i don’t want to ask

because what if i said this sort of

[Nick McGowan]: thing and if i was in that

spot and i love that you said after

[Nick McGowan]: thirty five years one person gave you

the cold shoulder was there something about that

[Nick McGowan]: person that you were like this separates

them from everybody else is there a reason

[Nick McGowan]: why you think you got the cold

shoulder from them

[Mike Bassett]: you know i can’t because i really

didn’t give it much thought because

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: here’s another thing

[Nick McGowan]: great

[Mike Bassett]: i learned

[Nick McGowan]: answer

[Mike Bassett]: from my old man you know my

old man was he was always about the

[Mike Bassett]: next thing and if you

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: you know he was an insurance sales

after he retired from the military and although

[Mike Bassett]: he never said

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: it what i picked up from him

was i don’t care if you tell me

[Mike Bassett]: no that’s one step closer to my


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: so i’ve had so

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: many people tell me no doesn’t bother

me it just means i’m one step closer

[Mike Bassett]: to getting to the yes so when

that person said no to me nick

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: i didn’t get wound around the axe

because it wasn’t going to do me

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: any good

[Nick McGowan]: and i would have been shocked if

you were like yes i remember exactly what

[Nick McGowan]: this person was like because that’s the

mind set to have where you’re like

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: i don’t care i’m moving along because


[Mike Bassett]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: other people that you opened up to

and that you asked out to breakfast they

[Nick McGowan]: were like yeah let’s do this and

they gave you great wisdom

[Mike Bassett]: yeah and i tell by young lawyers


[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Mike Bassett]: the time when you’re on the phone

with a client

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: say listen we’ve talked about business can

i pick your brain for three minutes let’s

[Mike Bassett]: say that you’re an insurance claims professional

or you’re a big wig at a trucking

[Mike Bassett]: company you work with and you’ve

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: got a younger lawyer at my office

is to say nick we’ve talked about the

[Mike Bassett]: issue we want to talk about just

off the clock can i just pick your

[Mike Bassett]: brain for about three minutes what the

lawyers that you work with around the country

[Mike Bassett]: what are the three characteristics that you

think set them apart and what are the

[Mike Bassett]: three things the characteristic of lawyers you

will never use again

[Nick McGowan]: oh question

[Mike Bassett]: i do this all the time if

i’m talking with a new client let’s say

[Mike Bassett]: you’re a client you’re talking to me

one of the questions

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: i’m gonna ask you is nick tell

me what success looks like to you

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: does success look like to you and

then what does successful relationship with your lawyer

[Mike Bassett]: look like how do you define that

tell me

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: what it looks

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: like because you may say you know

what i want a lawyer that’s available twenty

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: four seven that drops everything for me

like okay i’m not your guy

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: it’s good to know now

[Nick McGowan]: yeah makes sense and that’s not just

a lawyer thing

[Mike Bassett]: no

[Nick McGowan]: it’s easy for me to jump into

sales but i think it’s just a people

[Nick McGowan]: thing and it’s an expectations thing

[Mike Bassett]: it’s all and you know it comes

down to communication we are probably

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: all we do in my business is

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: we solve problems that’s all we do

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: we solve people’s problems some bigger and

some smaller and i’m always about communication if

[Mike Bassett]: you just pick up phone and talk

to people trust me there

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Mike Bassett]: have been relationships client relationships that i

have danner burned to the ground for something

[Mike Bassett]: i did but you’ve got that relationship

and you call and say nick here’s the

[Mike Bassett]: deal we screwed this up we’re going

to make

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: it right but i want you to

know i can’t tell you the number of

[Mike Bassett]: relationships i have that have only been


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: because of that

[Nick McGowan]: you just built back your trust by

falling on your

[Mike Bassett]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: own sword um

[Mike Bassett]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: and that’s a it’s a hard pill

for people to swallow or they don’t want

[Nick McGowan]: to fall on that own sword and

go look i fucked up i’m sorry

[Mike Bassett]: yeah you know what and you want

to come back to the parent thing i

[Mike Bassett]: think

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: there’s a lot of kids that are

raised that if you make a mistake that’s

[Mike Bassett]: a reflection on you and you can’t

admit it one of the things that has

[Mike Bassett]: been so freeing as i get older

i’ll be on a conference call with twelve

[Mike Bassett]: people and somebody say mike what about

this and i’m like you know what i

[Mike Bassett]: have no idea

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: no idea it sounds like a good

idea let me get back to you t

[Mike Bassett]: is

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: so freeing the young lawyer mike think

i’ve got to know the answer so i

[Mike Bassett]: may just

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: make up some bullshit or kind of

cobble together in

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: answer much more i think it’s much

more and you much more respect to say

[Mike Bassett]: you know i have no idea i’ve

never thought of that

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: don’t know let me let me get

back to you on that

[Nick McGowan]: yeah i think people are afraid to

do that earlier in their careers and then

[Mike Bassett]: sure

[Nick McGowan]: as they

[Mike Bassett]: they

[Nick McGowan]: move

[Mike Bassett]: are

[Nick McGowan]: along there there so conditioned to just

not do that but once you get to

[Nick McGowan]: that press where you’re like kind of

skin now but we’ll figure it out and

[Nick McGowan]: i got another question

[Mike Bassett]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: for you help me give me some

more information about this thing because when you

[Nick McGowan]: start

[Mike Bassett]: exactly

[Nick McGowan]: getting stuff out of them they’re like

oh this is great like he doesn’t know

[Nick McGowan]: it he’s not going to feed me

some bullshit that’s a whole

[Mike Bassett]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: different story than you can tell and

i’m sure you’ve seen this where people are

[Nick McGowan]: squirming they’re like here’s some bullshit for

you here it is and you’re like where

[Nick McGowan]: the fuck

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: did that come from

[Mike Bassett]: right so i now a lawyer e’s

a dear friend if you answer question he

[Mike Bassett]: didn’t know he would come back and

answer a question you didn’t even ask you

[Mike Bassett]: like on this matter here what what

are we going to do with this now

[Mike Bassett]: i don’t know but did you know

that pebble beach is the oldest golf course

[Mike Bassett]: in california you’re like

[Nick McGowan]: the

[Mike Bassett]: no i didn’t know but that’s

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: not what i asked

[Nick McGowan]: does he have a follow up to

that like i understood i didn’t get it

[Nick McGowan]: so i asked you something different

[Mike Bassett]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: that’s funny

[Mike Bassett]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: man i love that sort of

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: stuff i had a friend a long

time ago that would always just pivot to

[Nick McGowan]: something else like if you’re talking about

anything like here so and so got into

[Nick McGowan]: a car accident

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: yeah speaking of car

[Mike Bassett]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: accidents what are we doing for dinner

like where the fuck did that come from

[Nick McGowan]: but you would do it all the

time like whatever the thing was he just

[Nick McGowan]: bounce off of it

[Mike Bassett]: and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: then you know you and i both

know and these are people that i don’t

[Mike Bassett]: think you want to keep in your

orbit no matter what

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: you’re talking about they’ve always got this

story i call them toppers you’re like hey

[Mike Bassett]: listen

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: you know what this week end i

can had a scare because you know my

[Mike Bassett]: kid had a fever and but everything

is okay you know what my kid had

[Mike Bassett]: a fever one time a hundred and


[Nick McGowan]: right

[Mike Bassett]: almost died we had to air lift

him on a jet from france and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: it was amazing you’re like m

[Nick McGowan]: but

[Mike Bassett]: you win

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: you win

[Nick McGowan]: your kid is more

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: sicker than mine

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: way to go

[Mike Bassett]: topers toppers all

[Nick McGowan]: it’s interesting

[Mike Bassett]: just

[Nick McGowan]: you call

[Mike Bassett]: you

[Nick McGowan]: them

[Mike Bassett]: have

[Nick McGowan]: toppers

[Mike Bassett]: yeah everything you got i can top

that story

[Nick McGowan]: yeah yeah i

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: think of i think if the significance

driven people you know there’s like

[Mike Bassett]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: we can look at those people and

almost say hope you i hope you’re all

[Nick McGowan]: right like i hope you get through

this because you don’t need to top anything

[Nick McGowan]: there’s no reason for it but they

try to be significant you know

[Mike Bassett]: well so i talk a lot about

bullying in the law and here’s

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: my theory this is my theory when

you deal with people that are topers or

[Mike Bassett]: uperaggressive to me not a psychologist that

is a reflection you’ve got somebody who’s incredibly

[Mike Bassett]: insecure in

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: themselves

[Nick McGowan]: yep

[Mike Bassett]: in themselves and so when i see

that i’m like okay the old man used

[Mike Bassett]: to get pissed off about it when

you would see a lawyer

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: do that but now i’m like okay

i get it don’t judge him because listen

[Mike Bassett]: i’ve done some stupid stuff too but

you’re like okay i see where you’re coming

[Mike Bassett]: from but if you come at those

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: people in a certain way you can

really have deep relationships with them

[Nick McGowan]: yeah because they’re looking for help there


[Mike Bassett]: sure

[Nick McGowan]: looking

[Mike Bassett]: they are

[Nick McGowan]: they just they’re afraid to say it

[Mike Bassett]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: and it’s the old let’s go for

coffee and you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: know men are you doing okay is

you seem to be a little bit wound

[Mike Bassett]: up right now

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: that’s

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Mike Bassett]: where vulnerability comes in because i got

[Nick McGowan]: that’s

[Mike Bassett]: to tell

[Nick McGowan]: a

[Mike Bassett]: you

[Nick McGowan]: good

[Mike Bassett]: if

[Nick McGowan]: point

[Mike Bassett]: you can if you can if you

can show yourself to be vulnerable it’s one

[Mike Bassett]: of the i think it’s one of

the strongest threads to a relationship is genuine

[Mike Bassett]: vulnerability

[Nick McGowan]: yeah i agree with that look you’re

over sixty i’m almost forty and there are

[Mike Bassett]: m

[Nick McGowan]: people that listen to this show that

are just out of their teens and people

[Nick McGowan]: that

[Mike Bassett]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: are in their seventies and eighties we’ve

all grown up a bit differently but i

[Nick McGowan]: feel like there have been moments where

we all kind of have that like well

[Nick McGowan]: sucking man up and just go to

it instead of actually

[Mike Bassett]: he

[Nick McGowan]: understanding what people

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: are going through and being mindful of


[Mike Bassett]: exactly and there was a part of

me and you talk about

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: this so

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: richard roars is a franciscan theologian he

has his great concept of the first the

[Mike Bassett]: two halves of life and in

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: the first half of life

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: we’re trying build our career we’re trying

to be that bullet proof person we’re trying

[Mike Bassett]: to climb the ladder never admit we’re

wrong and in the second half life we

[Mike Bassett]: realize you know what i don’t know

much of anything

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: who i surround myself is the most

important thing in the world and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: i really got to take care of

myself because nobody’s going to come in and

[Mike Bassett]: say nick you’ve been burning the candle

at both ends let us take everything from

[Mike Bassett]: you right now

[Nick McGowan]: it’s just not a real life yeah

i understand

[Mike Bassett]: i’m waiting

[Nick McGowan]: man

[Mike Bassett]: for that person they haven’t showed up

[Nick McGowan]: yeah that’s why i’m laughing because i’ve

thought that you’ve thought that most everybody in

[Nick McGowan]: the world i assume has been like

you know at some point it’s just all

[Nick McGowan]: gonna get fixed and i think there’s

a balance where yes you have to be

[Nick McGowan]: faithful you have to be

[Mike Bassett]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: open to things being fixed and you

have to be positive kind of like what

[Nick McGowan]: you’re saying with your mom but you

can’t also you can’t be that ass hole

[Nick McGowan]: like that what’s that joke with the

people that are in a flood they’re on

[Nick McGowan]: the top of a roof and god

sends up a helicopter and a boat and

[Nick McGowan]: then they get up he’s like you

funking kid me like i set you a

[Nick McGowan]: boat helicopter like but but now we’re

here he’s like i know i tried to

[Nick McGowan]: keep you there but now you’re here

[Mike Bassett]: and i think a lot

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: of that simply comes with age really

does and you know have dealing with life’s

[Mike Bassett]: challenges

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: because we are all going to

[Nick McGowan]: my

[Mike Bassett]: get punched in the nose

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: all of us and sometimes it’s deserved

sometimes it’s not deserved but it’s going to

[Mike Bassett]: happen and you and i both know

it’s not to see you sit and be

[Mike Bassett]: pissed and go you know what life

just punched me in the nose yes answer

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: is okay what am i going to

do about it am i going to be

[Mike Bassett]: that guy that’s a victim

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: right

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Mike Bassett]: am i going to be that

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: guy that said you know what that

sucked what role did i play in that

[Nick McGowan]: what do i do

[Mike Bassett]: at

[Nick McGowan]: next

[Mike Bassett]: did i do to maybe create

[Nick McGowan]: yep

[Mike Bassett]: that situation because let me see what

i did

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: that’s a good point well head it’s

been a pleasure to talk

[Mike Bassett]: okay

[Nick McGowan]: to you i think we could just


[Mike Bassett]: it’s

[Nick McGowan]: going

[Mike Bassett]: been a kick

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Mike Bassett]: in

[Nick McGowan]: going

[Mike Bassett]: the pants

[Nick McGowan]: and going yeah man well you started

things off with

[Mike Bassett]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: a tool fan so i was like

this is going to be great

[Mike Bassett]: dude okay so let me tell you

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: january twenty twenty oldest son lives in

austin my other son here we go to

[Mike Bassett]: the tool concert and it’s just

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: amazing okay this is january twenty twenty

right before the world goes off

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: the cliff and it was amazing then

they cle back around to dallas it was

[Mike Bassett]: march of twenty twenty two they’re coming

back through town and i had a freaking

[Mike Bassett]: trial and i could not go

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Mike Bassett]: i was so

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Mike Bassett]: pissed off

[Nick McGowan]: man so was that the first and

only time you’ve seen tool or have you

[Nick McGowan]: seen them other times

[Mike Bassett]: no

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Mike Bassett]: no it’s the first and only time

i’ve ever seen them now my oldest son

[Mike Bassett]: is like a fish fan i mean

he goes to tool concerts all the time

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Mike Bassett]: all the time

[Nick McGowan]: h yeah oh man i’m not quite

a that level but i think i’ve seen

[Nick McGowan]: them upwards of ten times seven

[Mike Bassett]: whatever

[Nick McGowan]: to ten times

[Mike Bassett]: toper

[Nick McGowan]: something like

[Mike Bassett]: whatever

[Nick McGowan]: that

[Mike Bassett]: toper i said

[Nick McGowan]: well

[Mike Bassett]: when you said ten i get where

you’re coming from nick

[Nick McGowan]: the reason why i’m bringing that up

is i had on my bucket list to

[Nick McGowan]: go see a perfect circle have you

seen a perfect circle

[Mike Bassett]: i was listening to a perfect circle

this morning on the way to work

[Nick McGowan]: oh man what album were you listening


[Mike Bassett]: it was the one that lilith is

that the name

[Nick McGowan]: judith

[Mike Bassett]: s

[Nick McGowan]: from

[Mike Bassett]: judith

[Nick McGowan]: merdenams

[Mike Bassett]: yeah yeah yes and i can i

can i can think of the beat and

[Mike Bassett]: i won’t do it though because it

would kill your

[Nick McGowan]: you

[Mike Bassett]: audience

[Nick McGowan]: know that

[Mike Bassett]: rating but you

[Nick McGowan]: a yeah

[Mike Bassett]: yep

[Nick McGowan]: man well ladies and gentlemen we should

all go listen to a perfect circle and

[Nick McGowan]: tool and basically anything maynard just go

listen to it

[Mike Bassett]: anything maynard

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: and you know what else came up

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: on my play list this past weekend

this pre dates you probably thirty eight special

[Nick McGowan]: oh i did thirty eight special does

kind of appreciate

[Mike Bassett]: any band

[Nick McGowan]: me a bit

[Mike Bassett]: that had two drummers dude that was

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: legit

[Nick McGowan]: are

[Mike Bassett]: i don’t

[Nick McGowan]: you

[Mike Bassett]: know

[Nick McGowan]: a genesis

[Mike Bassett]: why you need

[Nick McGowan]: fan

[Mike Bassett]: two drummers yes phil collins

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: huge genesis fan

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Mike Bassett]: huge

[Nick McGowan]: they they had two drummers for a


[Mike Bassett]: i’ll tell you something

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Mike Bassett]: else that i listened to i don’t

know two or three weeks ago was fleetwood

[Mike Bassett]: max rumors

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Mike Bassett]: i wore i wore

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: that ship out in nineteen

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Mike Bassett]: seventy nine nineteen it whenever it came


[Nick McGowan]: h

[Mike Bassett]: cars hm all that stuff

[Nick McGowan]: and that’s good stuff man well we

could sit here and shoot the ship about

[Nick McGowan]: music for hours and hours i know

we could i appreciate you being on he

[Nick McGowan]: wanted to

[Mike Bassett]: thanks

[Nick McGowan]: tell

[Mike Bassett]: for

[Nick McGowan]: us where

[Mike Bassett]: having

[Nick McGowan]: people

[Mike Bassett]: me

[Nick McGowan]: can connect with you absolutely

[Mike Bassett]: sure

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Mike Bassett]: i’m on linked in at mike basset

my website for my book is called a

[Mike Bassett]: man

[Nick McGowan]: ah

[Mike Bassett]: in the ditch dot com our law

firm is the basset firm dot com so

[Mike Bassett]: reach out to me if you want

to go have coffee virtual are real

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Mike Bassett]: and i’m always happy to interact with


[Nick McGowan]: awesome man well it’s been an absolute a pleasure to have you on appreciate your time

[Mike Bassett]: thank you very much nick I really

enjoyed being here thanks for having me

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