Being True To Who You Are Wherever You Are – Ep.034 – Rachel Covello

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Episode summary:​ Rachel and I go deep into the mental archives to discuss what she’s been through to become who she is today and why her business “Outcoast” means so much to her and her legacy.

Guest Name & Bio:

Rachel Covello is the Publisher of, an LGBTQ-focused destination marketing travel blog highlighting inclusive destinations in Florida. She is also a niche brand consultant and strategizes with companies on how to reach the LGBTQ consumer authentically.

Rachel Covello

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[Nick McGowan]: Rachel welcome to the show how are you doing?

[Rachel Covello]: I’m good thanks so much for having me

[Nick McGowan]: absolutely I appreciate that you’re on we’ve

kind of known each other for I want

[Nick McGowan]: to say like seven eight maybe nine

years at

[Rachel Covello]: it’s

[Nick McGowan]: At this point it’s

[Rachel Covello]: been

[Nick McGowan]: been

[Rachel Covello]: a

[Nick McGowan]: quite

[Rachel Covello]: while

[Nick McGowan]: some time yeah

[Rachel Covello]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: from state to state so Rachel and

I first met each other in Pennsylvania i

[Nick McGowan]: was running a networking group she

came out to the group we connected and

[Nick McGowan]: had some great conversations and then what

like five-six years later

[Rachel Covello]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: found out that both of us were

basically ten-fifteen miles apart from each other

[Nick McGowan]: in Florida

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: with a couple of states in between

so Rachel i appreciate you jumping on why

[Nick McGowan]: don’t you kick us off by giving

us a little context

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: what you do for a living and

one thing that most people don’t know about

[Nick McGowan]: you

[Rachel Covello]: so my name is Rachel cavallo i

run outcost dot com that’s my primary job

[Rachel Covello]: i’m the publisher co it’s an online

travel blog digital magazine that focuses on promoting

[Rachel Covello]: florida as an l g b t

place to visit so we highlight all the

[Rachel Covello]: cool destinations in florida that are l

g b t inclusive and open open doors

[Rachel Covello]: um something people don’t know about me

i’m pretty much an open book but one

[Rachel Covello]: of the things i have not shared

much lately is that i just i just

[Rachel Covello]: wrapped up as week online class on

comedy writing um

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Rachel Covello]: so

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Rachel Covello]: i’m i’m dabbling with a little stand

up comedy when i have some extra free

[Rachel Covello]: time more as a hobby not for

a profession reasons but just a little fun

[Rachel Covello]: outlet i feel like we all need

to laugh right now when we can

[Nick McGowan]: yeah i agree with that

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: so why why comedy what drove you

to that

[Rachel Covello]: because i think my sarcasm probably is

used at the wrong time a lot

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Rachel Covello]: often

[Nick McGowan]: huh

[Rachel Covello]: so it’s it’s probably better when i

do it in front of an audience that’s

[Rachel Covello]: that’s expecting me

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Rachel Covello]: the sense of humor i’m out

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Rachel Covello]: so i love making jokes i love

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: people making people laugh i think if

i’m not

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: promoting lgbtinclusion my i think my purpose

in life is to make people smile and

[Rachel Covello]: and laugh that’s that’s my mission personal

[Nick McGowan]: that’s pretty

[Rachel Covello]: mission

[Nick McGowan]: cool

[Rachel Covello]: at least

[Nick McGowan]: and that’s cool that you’re taking that

step out to to do some comedy you

[Nick McGowan]: know

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: i’ve heard a lot of people say

i want to go do this thing i

[Nick McGowan]: want to take these lessons or i

want to take

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: this class through whatever and for the

most part it’s just all

[Rachel Covello]: ye

[Nick McGowan]: jack you know they’re just talking

[Rachel Covello]: ‘veenit’s been on my bucket list for

a long time i’ve always i think when

[Rachel Covello]: i was younger i was i mean

you’ve seen me for the last you know

[Rachel Covello]: eight nine ten years but i think

when i was younger

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: i was a lot more insecure i

was a little bit more nervous about getting

[Rachel Covello]: up in front of a crowd that’s

changed with the work i do so um

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: you know i remember being that straight

a student but my mom taught speech my

[Rachel Covello]: mom speech teacher in college for many

years she also worked for nasta for many

[Rachel Covello]: years but i always was embarrassed because

the only class i didn’t get an a

[Rachel Covello]: in was speech and now i do

that stuff profess ally so you know i

[Rachel Covello]: think it was just the right time

but i wanted to getting up on stage

[Rachel Covello]: in front of people and cracking jokes

about your life is it’s both intimidating as

[Rachel Covello]: hell and it’s freeing at the same

time so

[Nick McGowan]: yeah i am

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: i could only imagine the the balance

between feeling like all right this joke is

[Nick McGowan]: probably going to push an envelope but

you know fuck it here it is

[Rachel Covello]: right

[Nick McGowan]: and just like tipping yourself over like

you guys are here you’ve paid for this

[Rachel Covello]: right right

[Nick McGowan]: and do you find that as you’re

kind of going through that course and as

[Nick McGowan]: you’re

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: writing out these jokes that you’re trying

to filter a bit because you do

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: live in an area not physically but


[Rachel Covello]: h

[Nick McGowan]: what you work in where it’s almost

still boo for people

[Rachel Covello]: may don’t i think the dog might

you’re gonna have to clip this i heard

[Rachel Covello]: your question i didn’t

[Nick McGowan]: it

[Rachel Covello]: want to interrupt you

[Rachel Covello]: hear whining that’s why i’m getting ready

for this

[Nick McGowan]: i appreciate you being aware

[Rachel Covello]: hm my

[Rachel Covello]: i don’t know she’s i think she’s

just taking her time

[Rachel Covello]: i can start answering and then i

don’t know if it’ll

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: you gonna

[Nick McGowan]: i don’t

[Rachel Covello]: wait

[Nick McGowan]: hear

[Rachel Covello]: another minute

[Nick McGowan]: anything

[Rachel Covello]: or do you want me to go

[Nick McGowan]: you’re all i mean your wife your


[Rachel Covello]: you might not even hear it with

the head set on

[Nick McGowan]: i can’t hear anything else i think

you should

[Rachel Covello]: she’s

[Nick McGowan]: be a right

[Rachel Covello]: in they’re not barking okay cool

[Nick McGowan]: cool

[Rachel Covello]: i think

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: let me start over a

[Rachel Covello]: i think there’s ways o when oh

my god i got lost in my concentration

[Rachel Covello]: sorry about that

[Nick McGowan]: good

[Rachel Covello]: i think the topics that i focus

on when i do comedy i’m great and

[Rachel Covello]: i’m still new i mean i’ve been

cracking jokes my whole life but from a

[Rachel Covello]: more structured comedy sing up comedy kind

of thing i do a lot of jokes

[Rachel Covello]: about my my life my personal experience

i’ve been

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: married three times so i’ve got a

lot of content just there so

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Rachel Covello]: i don’t necessarily get into a lot

of the local stuff i don’t get into

[Rachel Covello]: i try to steer clear of that

a little bit i really like to be

[Rachel Covello]: an open book but somebody that like

somebody that anyone could listen to i approached

[Rachel Covello]: my work

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: that way to i mean even though

i focus on the b t community and

[Rachel Covello]: it definitely is hard to stay out

of political discussion especially right now i still

[Rachel Covello]: like to be a platform that anybody’s

welcome to learn and you know look at

[Rachel Covello]: a content and i approach comedy that

way two you know we can all relate

[Rachel Covello]: to like stupid things we’ve done in

life that we just make fun of

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: and marriage and you know relationships and

so a lot of it that i’m also

[Rachel Covello]: in the middle of doing a little

monologue about we had a yard sale this

[Rachel Covello]: week end like a two day yard

sale and my wife brought out the strangest

[Rachel Covello]: things to the yard sale

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rachel Covello]: like the things that were coming out

of our house i almost got to the

[Rachel Covello]: point i’m like maybe this is not

the right house for me to be living

[Rachel Covello]: in right now so there was like

a ton of joe right in that just

[Rachel Covello]: you know that little snip it but

it’s like everyday life stuff it’s not

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: i want to be light and stay

away from some of the deeper heavier stuff

[Rachel Covello]: where i can unless i can’t avoid


[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Rachel Covello]: ye

[Nick McGowan]: yeah i think that’s one of the

reasons why people look at comedy and why

[Nick McGowan]: they’ve looked at comedy

[Rachel Covello]: m

[Nick McGowan]: for years and years years and years

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: to be able to escape to be

able to get away and also to relate

[Rachel Covello]: right

[Nick McGowan]: right like there are certain things like


[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: i went to the grocery store

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: this thing happened this old lady dropped

this thing in front of me you know

[Nick McGowan]: slipped or whatever people are like i’ve

seen that

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: or i’ve been part of that

[Rachel Covello]: right

[Nick McGowan]: or whatever that thing is but if

you go down one specific nitch you’re probably

[Nick McGowan]: only getting a certain percentage of the

room so that’s smart

[Rachel Covello]: right

[Nick McGowan]: let’s take a little bit of a

step back

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: give us some context because look we

said that we met in pa we met

[Nick McGowan]: in a network in group and ned

el people you run an l g p

[Nick McGowan]: t magazine help people get to florida

so give us a little bit of

[Rachel Covello]: yeh

[Nick McGowan]: context of that how did that journey

kind of take you from i think when

[Nick McGowan]: we met when you were in pa

where you i think you were a writer

[Nick McGowan]: but

[Rachel Covello]: i went on like a very interesting

professional was very organic so i lived in

[Rachel Covello]: so i grew up in maryland just

kind of a ittle background grew up in

[Rachel Covello]: maryland eventually

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: moved to pensylvania um when i started

in pensylvania i got a job through a

[Rachel Covello]: connection working for maria i was doing

um i worked as a sales executive for

[Rachel Covello]: marat for about five properties and that

was kind of man i was already in

[Rachel Covello]: sales i’ve been retail sales for many

years right out of high school and then

[Rachel Covello]: moved

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: into more of the corporate business to

business type of sale loved it but there

[Rachel Covello]: were some personal things going on at

the time and i eventually decided part ways

[Rachel Covello]: with marat and i moved over to

work for corporate staples and i was selling

[Rachel Covello]: office supplies all sorts of stuff then

i just kind of got burnt out in

[Rachel Covello]: the corporate sales space i just didn’t

like it i had gotten very heavy at

[Rachel Covello]: that point like you know approaching like

three hundred pounds heavy and decided go on

[Rachel Covello]: to life transformation lost a ton of

weight granted i didn’t keep all i haven’t

[Rachel Covello]: kept all of it off but i’m

in a much more balanced place um and

[Rachel Covello]: during that time i went back to

school i got a degree of nutrition and

[Rachel Covello]: all the way through the degree process

and decided i hated it like i had

[Rachel Covello]: no interest

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rachel Covello]: in it

[Nick McGowan]: man

[Rachel Covello]: i mean i think we all do

that at some point um

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: and it just didn’t make me happy

i was miserable i was going through some

[Rachel Covello]: medical anxiety stuff at the time and

i thought you know

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: i just have to start doing things

that make me happy and so i literally

[Rachel Covello]: went home one day after quitting an

intern ship and with diatetic inernships you actually

[Rachel Covello]: have to pay a lot of money

to be a part of them and i

[Rachel Covello]: just decided to quit i just it

didn’t fill me it didn’t make me happy

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: and so i went home one day

wrote a list of all the things that

[Rachel Covello]: make me happy it was literally i

titled it the happiness list and wrote this

[Rachel Covello]: whole list of photograghaphy well l g

b t stuff um you know food experiences

[Rachel Covello]: whatever that might be are writing so

like i literally

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: one by one started doing things on

that list like i i could even think

[Rachel Covello]: about the order i did them in

and one of them was this job not

[Rachel Covello]: working component and i had met my

prior spouse at a gay bar in phoenixville

[Rachel Covello]: pennsylvania and once we had met the

bar was only around for a year and

[Rachel Covello]: it closed and when that happened pretty

much the community dissipated it wasn’t

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: you know there wasn’t a place to

gather and so around the time where i

[Rachel Covello]: was thinking about getting involved with l

g b t stuff i thought let’s just

[Rachel Covello]: host a social event let’s let’s bring

people together i love to network people i

[Rachel Covello]: love to bring people together like

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: you do and so i brought a

bunch of women together for like a music

[Rachel Covello]: night and it was very successful it

was it sold out we were right on

[Rachel Covello]: bridge street in phoenix ville pensylvania a


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: wine bar and it was packed and

then the next we went over to a

[Rachel Covello]: different bar on on bridge street and

and that was like a hundred people and

[Rachel Covello]: it continued to grow

[Nick McGowan]: nice

[Rachel Covello]: and what started as a social thing

wound up we decided to create an lgbitinonprofit

[Rachel Covello]: right in the suburbs of pensylvania um

which our county was very purple so it

[Rachel Covello]: was kind of a cool place to

do it because it was a very mixed

[Rachel Covello]: political county um

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: and i took it upon myself to

go and meet with commissioners and with you

[Rachel Covello]: know we couldn’t get too much involved

with politics because we were at five on

[Rachel Covello]: c three but personally i was going

and having meetings and just introducing myself making

[Rachel Covello]: the l g b t community very

um you know making pope aware of the

[Rachel Covello]: community and the needs of the community


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: that town has now become like a

little quotumquote gaiborhood you know of the suburbs

[Rachel Covello]: that still is today and it’s very

cool to have had a little part in

[Rachel Covello]: that um

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: and and then eventually i got some

because of that role i was brought on

[Rachel Covello]: by a large manufacturing company right in

chester county to help them launch an l

[Rachel Covello]: j b t resource group um and

then i then we were looking at moving

[Rachel Covello]: to florida part time and quickly fell

in love with florida and decided to launch

[Rachel Covello]: my own platform that really goes into

all the well things to do in florida

[Rachel Covello]: from the l g b t perspective

and um it started really more as a

[Rachel Covello]: community platform for tampa bay and in

twenty twenty when everything was shut down and

[Rachel Covello]: pride to organize since we’re shut down

i had a lot of time on my

[Rachel Covello]: hands and i thought well if i’m

goin t go state wide which was always

[Rachel Covello]: the goal um

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: i got to do it i have

to do an our like i can’t this

[Rachel Covello]: is the time to do it because

visitor bureaus looking for people to travel they’re

[Rachel Covello]: looking to make some money because they

weren’t because the hotel situation you know everything

[Rachel Covello]: being

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: shut down so that’s kind of how

it all just kicked off now or state

[Rachel Covello]: wide you know we still have some

covid stuff lingering you know of course but

[Rachel Covello]: travel is opening up again and it’s

just it was just great timing the way

[Rachel Covello]: it all happened and it’s great to

be the kind of the face of the

[Rachel Covello]: l j b travel in florida um

although it’s been interesting lately with everything going

[Rachel Covello]: on so

[Nick McGowan]: go on what do you mean

[Rachel Covello]: yeah i mean right now i mean


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: florida is in the news where in

the news every day especially when it comes

[Rachel Covello]: to l g b t topics um

you know whatever side of the platform you’re

[Rachel Covello]: on you can argue the fact that

it’s a topic that’s being talked about in

[Rachel Covello]: the media um and

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: so we get people on one side

that of course have their own perspectives about

[Rachel Covello]: know there’re still people out he that

don’t like gay people so you know we

[Rachel Covello]: do get a little bit of the

homophobic stuff that comes along but we’re

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: also getting now we’re getting lashed you

know um pushed back by gay people you

[Rachel Covello]: know when we go to promote l

t florida a lot of people are saying

[Rachel Covello]: why would i spend money in florida

i can go somewhere else um so it’s

[Rachel Covello]: been an interesting dynamic cause it’s not

happened before this past year it’s been interesting

[Rachel Covello]: to navigate i think my message is

always i will never wave a white flag

[Rachel Covello]: i’m going to continue to wave a

rainbow flag and if we stop coming and

[Rachel Covello]: showing up and being present not only

in the big cities that already welcome elgbtpeople

[Rachel Covello]: but also in the small

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: little countries the bird in towns that

are just starting to make progress if we

[Rachel Covello]: just walk away and we stop showing

up what happens nothing

[Nick McGowan]: gone

[Rachel Covello]: so

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: um so i those are my favorite

places to explore and have conversations and i

[Rachel Covello]: take a non in your face approach

a much more conversational educational like listen i

[Rachel Covello]: like to empathize with people um and

that’s not always received very well from certain

[Rachel Covello]: people within our own community where they

want to see you like

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: taking action very um very loud and

proud and i am loud and proud but

[Rachel Covello]: i tend not to be as loud

as sometimes as i think i used to

[Rachel Covello]: be so

[Nick McGowan]: m or

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: part

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: of growing and learning

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: you don’t always have to yell honestly

i think some of it

[Rachel Covello]: no

[Nick McGowan]: comes from being up in the northeast

you know i’ve learned over the course of

[Nick McGowan]: time like oh you don’t get things

done by yelling and screaming mom why did

[Nick McGowan]: you do such

[Rachel Covello]: m

[Nick McGowan]: a thing you know what i mean

and just having that sort of stuff

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: in the back of your mind i


[Rachel Covello]: i

[Nick McGowan]: to

[Rachel Covello]: think the

[Nick McGowan]: kind

[Rachel Covello]: greatest

[Nick McGowan]: of get into

[Rachel Covello]: tool is listening i mean

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: and i cut you off as i

was saying that

[Nick McGowan]: uh uh perfect

[Rachel Covello]: i

[Nick McGowan]: timing

[Rachel Covello]: but i do i do think like

the greatest tool we have to creating changes

[Rachel Covello]: like shutting

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: up and just listening like listen to

people listen to their pain points i mean

[Rachel Covello]: my background sales right

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: so i walk into a potential client

and i start just you know purging like

[Rachel Covello]: throwing up all the things that we


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: and what we do and it’s all

about us i’ve never taken the time to

[Rachel Covello]: listen to what what is painful to

them why would they change what

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: what are they looking for so i

kind of i take the same approach when

[Rachel Covello]: i talk to people that might have

different views as i do let me listen

[Rachel Covello]: acknowledge that i don’t have to always

agree let me at least

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: empathize or try to empathize with their

perspective and then you know just making little

[Rachel Covello]: kind of like crum trails along the

way to how maybe their perception is just

[Rachel Covello]: different than what it i mean if

someone’s never been exposed to a trancedender person

[Rachel Covello]: they’re going to create assumptions their head

i did like before i even got involved

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: with a trangender community like i did

the same thing and my mind has changed

[Rachel Covello]: so much over the years just because

of being present with people who are tranced

[Rachel Covello]: under and and learning from them and

asking them difficult

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: questions and doing research on my own

too we have to also take the time

[Rachel Covello]: to do our own research

[Nick McGowan]: yeah totally but that’s a that’s a

level of caring that most people

[Rachel Covello]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: just don’t give a shit about

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: they’ll bit you complain or they’ll talk

about things or say well i’ve heard at

[Nick McGowan]: one point blah blah blah

[Rachel Covello]: m

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Rachel Covello]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: did you do any research

[Rachel Covello]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: well no i was fed by c

n n or

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: whatever they say this is the thing

let’s get

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: into mindset a bit because what you’re

talking about now

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: is much further into your story

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: much further you allude it a bit

that you were kind of shy and introverted

[Rachel Covello]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: way back in the day and let’s

talk about the mindset of being able to

[Nick McGowan]: kind of walk through the decision and

understanding of this is who i am and

[Nick McGowan]: then kind of getting to the point

where now you you walk in and you’re

[Nick McGowan]: like i don’t have to scream and

we can have conversation i can ask

[Rachel Covello]: right

[Nick McGowan]: you questions and learn things i’m sure

that was way different when you were in

[Nick McGowan]: high school even right out of

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: high school

[Rachel Covello]: yeah i mean i think part of

my mean if i’m being honest i think

[Rachel Covello]: part of my insecurities came from the

fact that i was i’ve always been a

[Rachel Covello]: curve full figured person ever since i


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: little i think i was born chubby

um and i think i’ve always been very

[Rachel Covello]: aware of that you know nowadays

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: it’s amazing to see the girls nowadays

you know jen gene the younger community jenexgenzi

[Rachel Covello]: i guess that’s really embracing being full

figured i joke because nowadays girls are getting

[Rachel Covello]: like butt lifts and i’m like well

i’ve had it the whole time at least

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Rachel Covello]: in style now

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Rachel Covello]: they’ve

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: caught up with me but you know

back when i was younger that wasn’t the

[Rachel Covello]: case i was like the girl in

elementary school that was overweight and so

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: there was a lot of feeling like

people were looking at me or that my

[Rachel Covello]: value was based on my size and

i think that’s what i had to get

[Rachel Covello]: past first before i could

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: really give up the ins purities that

i was holding on to i think a

[Rachel Covello]: lot of it was like are they

looking at me like are they watching me

[Rachel Covello]: eat are they you know it was

a very i was very aware of people

[Rachel Covello]: looking at me and i’m not sure

exactly when that shift that shift happened i

[Rachel Covello]: think part of it could have been

um i mentioned i had been married i’ve

[Rachel Covello]: been marred three times i think especially

my second relationship she’s one of my best

[Rachel Covello]: friends to this day but i think

part of that i learned what unconditional level

[Rachel Covello]: as i learned um you know even

though we didn’t work out as a couple

[Rachel Covello]: of long term for other reasons i

still was loved regardless of my size i

[Rachel Covello]: mean i was loved when i was

almost three hundred pounds and i was loved

[Rachel Covello]: when i was like looking you know

le super thin at a hundred

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: and fifty forty five pounds and um

and that’s what i was like you know

[Rachel Covello]: at my weight really doesn’t matter aside

from the purpose of my health um

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: and so i think i started go

of some of those insecurities and just embracing

[Rachel Covello]: it like embracing hey i’m sexy at

any size as long as i’m healthy and

[Rachel Covello]: you know my

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: blood work looks good

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: like

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: it is what it is and my

other insecurity a lot of what i have

[Rachel Covello]: struggled with through my whole life to

and this could very well be linked to

[Rachel Covello]: insecurities i’ve had anxiety issues since i

was like thirteen

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: i’ve had anx the attacks and that’s

been a real struggle for me it’s probably

[Rachel Covello]: my achilles heel because there are times

in my career where i’ve wanted to do

[Rachel Covello]: so much more and that one thing

held me back from doing so um it’s

[Rachel Covello]: gotten much better living in florida has

been natural medicine that

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: you can’t get in a bottle i


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: florida the water the sun you know

if you’re feeling anxious just go outside um

[Rachel Covello]: you know it’s just an amazing place

to live and my vitum and d levels

[Rachel Covello]: have doubled since i’ve moved here and

i think that’s been a huge part too

[Rachel Covello]: so i think my anxiety as my

anxiety gets better and i get more comfortable

[Rachel Covello]: in my own body and my skin

my insecurity is my shyness just goes away

[Rachel Covello]: and there was something about sales you

know i was in sales for many years

[Rachel Covello]: and i went through many sales training

programs and you couldn’t

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: be shy when you sold

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: things i mean if you’re shy you

don’t sell so i think that was another

[Rachel Covello]: thing to that just kind of helped

push me through to build that confidence as

[Rachel Covello]: well um so a lot of things

[Nick McGowan]: hm you had also mentioned about not

having to yell and scream about things so

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: think of the

[Rachel Covello]: i

[Nick McGowan]: sales people that are type

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: but not really but they’re told to

like just push and go and do

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: that’s not really them you know i’ve

seen some

[Rachel Covello]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: of the best sales people

[Rachel Covello]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: that don’t sell a damn thing they

just move

[Rachel Covello]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: through and then by the end of

it people are like this makes a ton

[Nick McGowan]: of sense can i also get this

other thing like absolutely

[Rachel Covello]: and i’ve

[Nick McGowan]: because

[Rachel Covello]: also

[Nick McGowan]: they

[Rachel Covello]: learned

[Nick McGowan]: just

[Rachel Covello]: that

[Nick McGowan]: worked

[Rachel Covello]: like sometimes

[Nick McGowan]: with him

[Rachel Covello]: when i back away when i’m like

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: hey this might not be the right

but now like people want to come closer

[Rachel Covello]: to you it’s like that

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: you know that like physics um you


[Nick McGowan]: yep

[Rachel Covello]: when i was in sales you learn

in sales to listen you learn not to

[Rachel Covello]: sell your services but you learn to

sell the benefit that you provide to them

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: right so that has helped me to

learn in my own life um you know

[Rachel Covello]: to listen more and i think i

did that in my job a lot but

[Rachel Covello]: i’ve finally gotten to the point where

i’m doing that in my life too and

[Rachel Covello]: that makes a huge difference when it

so relationships and how you connect with people

[Rachel Covello]: um you know i think there are

so many things like we learn about sales

[Rachel Covello]: techniques but we don’t even think about

how can you apply those same techniques to

[Rachel Covello]: real life and when we start do

that our relationships can get so much better

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: it’s also like relationships i mean i

think many people at this point have heard

[Rachel Covello]: of or read the five love languages

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: it’s a great book but people don’t

even think about okay that’s for my relationships

[Rachel Covello]: but then how do i apply it

to my business world too and when we

[Rachel Covello]: start thinking about things in a bigger

picture that they all pertain to being human

[Rachel Covello]: i think it just it can save

so many lationships and just make life

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: so much richer

[Nick McGowan]: with covid and

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: everybody not everybody but most people being

kind of forced to work from home your

[Nick McGowan]: office is now your home which has

been difficult for people to be able to

[Nick McGowan]: kind of separate

[Rachel Covello]: h

[Nick McGowan]: but

[Rachel Covello]: m

[Nick McGowan]: there’s also those people that

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: miss that love they don’t get that

love like they did in the office of

[Nick McGowan]: like hey man i see you in

here early i see in here late i

[Nick McGowan]: see you getting your work done like

thank you for doing that i don’t really

[Nick McGowan]: see that so there are some people

[Rachel Covello]: m

[Nick McGowan]: that don’t have have that communication i

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: literally was in a meeting

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: at like ten thirty this morning where

we brought up the five love languages because

[Nick McGowan]: somebody was like you know i could

tell this person in production was just having

[Nick McGowan]: a bad time and they were working

their ass off

[Rachel Covello]: right

[Nick McGowan]: this other person took two minutes and

they were

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: like hey i just want to let

you know i think you’re doing a great

[Nick McGowan]: job how are you doing there

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: like my god thank you so much

like that meant the world to them because

[Nick McGowan]: that was

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: part of their love language

[Rachel Covello]: i mean

[Nick McGowan]: we

[Rachel Covello]: like

[Nick McGowan]: don’t

[Rachel Covello]: words of

[Nick McGowan]: often

[Rachel Covello]: affirmation

[Nick McGowan]: just mix them

[Rachel Covello]: yeah and i’ve learned over the years

the one live language i would say please

[Rachel Covello]: please keep out of the office is

physical touch that should

[Nick McGowan]: of course

[Rachel Covello]: only be relationship

[Nick McGowan]: that’s not right like man you’re

[Rachel Covello]: h r

[Nick McGowan]: doing

[Rachel Covello]: issue

[Nick McGowan]: a great job

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: please stop caressing my arm this is


[Rachel Covello]: yeah right i think that’s how the

two movements started um so you know i

[Rachel Covello]: think for

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: me physical touch has definitely been one

of mine um definitely not at the work

[Rachel Covello]: place but

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: my main one is words of affirmation

it always has been i mean my parents

[Rachel Covello]: were the parents that stroked your ego

whether you came in first for the race

[Rachel Covello]: or last my mom used tell me

so funny story my mom actually used to

[Rachel Covello]: tell me that when i i was

always the last to run the mile because

[Rachel Covello]: i just had a little bit more

weight to carry and she said honey if

[Rachel Covello]: you don’t finish the race nobody will

know that it’s over so good for you

[Rachel Covello]: for being last and that was approach

[Nick McGowan]: sweet

[Rachel Covello]: to it um that was like the

beginning of the trophies that everyone gets you

[Rachel Covello]: know even if they in early was


[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Rachel Covello]: but today

[Nick McGowan]: huh

[Rachel Covello]: i actually was at a wedding recently

and i slipped in a pool and at

[Rachel Covello]: my sister’s wedding and i twisted my

knee and i found out today that i

[Rachel Covello]: tore my m c l i had


[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rachel Covello]: r i done yesterday very minor it

should heal on its own but

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Rachel Covello]: i was so excited because i said

oh my god it’s my first sports injury

[Nick McGowan]: uh uh

[Rachel Covello]: and i called a friend i was

like i got my first sport injury and

[Rachel Covello]: they’re like what were you doing and

i’m like i think i was doing the

[Rachel Covello]: belly flat

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: but i’m not sure so

[Nick McGowan]: drinking

[Rachel Covello]: you

[Nick McGowan]: heavily

[Rachel Covello]: know

[Nick McGowan]: that’s what i was doing

[Rachel Covello]: but i mean i think you know

ut back to the words of affirmation i

[Rachel Covello]: think it’s so important

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: not only in the work setting but

in relationships in general with friends you know

[Rachel Covello]: if

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: if i know that my friend is

quality time is her love language i’m going

[Rachel Covello]: to do things to spend time with

her right if

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: i know that acts of service is

her love language maybe i’ll offer to walk

[Rachel Covello]: her dog or something when she’s you


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: she’s not around or you know something

like that if it’s words of affirmation you

[Rachel Covello]: better believe nobody texting or hey way

to go like way to go

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: on what you you’re a friend o

singer like way a go tonight you were

[Rachel Covello]: amazing like that’s that’s the way you

have to speak to anyone in any aspect

[Rachel Covello]: of your life if you if you

really want to create a positive exchange of

[Rachel Covello]: communication i mean this is why our

world is having such an issue right now

[Rachel Covello]: you know we’re all getting our own

opinions were not thinking about empathy we’re not

[Rachel Covello]: thinking about love languages we’re not thinking

about any of that stuff and so when

[Rachel Covello]: someone comes at you and is you

know angry have you stepped back to think

[Rachel Covello]: well have they had a bad day

are they have they been exposed to what

[Rachel Covello]: you’re trying to teach them do they

know anything about it like what is there

[Rachel Covello]: what are their biases um you know

are they not getting the love language they

[Rachel Covello]: need in their personal life where

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: they’re taking it out another people like

there’s people are so much more complicated than

[Rachel Covello]: black and white issues and i think

it’s just i wish we could all learn

[Rachel Covello]: just how to more effectively communicate becase

i think we you know my wife and

[Rachel Covello]: i don’t agree in everything politically were

actually different which is interesting given the work

[Rachel Covello]: that i do and you know the

spaces that i’m that i’m in and i

[Rachel Covello]: have several friends who politically don’t necesarily

line with me and it would be easy

[Rachel Covello]: to get angry at them and cut

them out of my life and say sorry

[Rachel Covello]: we can’t do this

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: but we actually have the most when

we have like really intense conversations that i

[Rachel Covello]: respect we both learned

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: so much more than if we just

put a wall up and ignored each other

[Rachel Covello]: so i wish that for the world

that we could do more of that

[Nick McGowan]: yeah i think things like this open

the doors for that where these sort of

[Nick McGowan]: conversations allow people to understand that i

can have some of these conversations some of

[Nick McGowan]: these thoughts that i have aren’t crazy

or they’re not just singular

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: thoughts because other people have those as

well a matter of having the conversation i

[Nick McGowan]: love when you get into conversation with

people and they’re like no it’s this thing

[Nick McGowan]: you have

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: a conversation or like you know

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: maybe i didn’t really understand so i

[Rachel Covello]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: just jumped to the closest thing and

i’m sure you have a lot of those

[Nick McGowan]: conversations with people

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: probably more often than you actually want

to have you know

[Rachel Covello]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: if you can just be like his

i what we’re doing people like yeah let’s

[Nick McGowan]: do it

[Rachel Covello]: i think what i think the should

be a common i was just thinking about

[Rachel Covello]: that there should be a common practice

that when you go into a conversation with

[Rachel Covello]: someone that you know you probably will

but heads with because yu have differences of

[Rachel Covello]: opinion there should be a statement at

the beginning hey this is a safe space

[Rachel Covello]: whatever you say i will listen we

may not agree but let’s have respectful conversation

[Rachel Covello]: i think just i think sometimes when

you set the stage for this this could

[Rachel Covello]: be a little bumpy but we’re going

to work through it it just makes for

[Rachel Covello]: me effective conversation um

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: you know there are certain topics that

i know there are certain people in my

[Rachel Covello]: life i cannot have certain topic conversations

with and then i also know that there

[Rachel Covello]: are certain people that i can have

it made in conversations with an i’ve also

[Rachel Covello]: i think as we get older two

we also start getting better at recognizing you

[Rachel Covello]: can’t have one person in your life

that takes care of everything for you like

[Rachel Covello]: you have

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: to have different people in your life

so my wife can’t be my therapist she

[Rachel Covello]: can’t be my my batting board for

you know punching bag for a political commentary

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: you know she can’t be the one

that’s always getting excited about every gay thing

[Rachel Covello]: i do because even though she’s gay

like she i don’t know if she doesn’t

[Rachel Covello]: think she is she just doesn’t isn’t

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Rachel Covello]: into like the she’s just

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Rachel Covello]: not getting into the private stuff and

that’s that’s awesome actually ecause it gives me

[Rachel Covello]: a break because i do that all

the time

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Rachel Covello]: so when i come home i don’t

have to do that

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: but i have the people in my

life and the resources in my life now

[Rachel Covello]: that and i intentionally found the people

in my life and those friends that now

[Rachel Covello]: i have the people that kind of

meet all those need so um i think

[Rachel Covello]: that’s another important thing to do to

so because if you can trying to have

[Rachel Covello]: conversations with the people that you

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: just know you’re never going to see

eye to eye with like why are you

[Nick McGowan]: why

[Rachel Covello]: doing it because you’re just trying

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: to like layer

[Nick McGowan]: win

[Rachel Covello]: people

[Nick McGowan]: them over

[Rachel Covello]: up what’s the point

[Nick McGowan]: yeah that’s a poking

[Rachel Covello]: what’s the

[Nick McGowan]: the bear

[Rachel Covello]: end game

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: them so some of those people i

think they really do kind of poke at

[Nick McGowan]: the bear because they want to

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: get a rial out of somebody because

it’s a little bit of an adventure

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: with people working from home now there’s

like well

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: my days kind of boring is hell

so let me push this a little bit

[Nick McGowan]: but

[Rachel Covello]: we

[Nick McGowan]: there

[Rachel Covello]: start

[Nick McGowan]: are

[Rachel Covello]: a

[Nick McGowan]: certain

[Rachel Covello]: fight on

[Nick McGowan]: people

[Rachel Covello]: facebook

[Nick McGowan]: yeah exactly just go pick

[Rachel Covello]: i will

[Nick McGowan]: a fight

[Rachel Covello]: admit

[Nick McGowan]: with random person

[Rachel Covello]: i

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: have been a bear poker in the


[Rachel Covello]: i don’t poke any more i might

like push a little or cuddle i don’t

[Rachel Covello]: know it depends on my mood but

[Nick McGowan]: cuddle and

[Rachel Covello]: i

[Nick McGowan]: poking

[Rachel Covello]: just

[Nick McGowan]: are a little different

[Rachel Covello]: i

[Nick McGowan]: there

[Rachel Covello]: know it’s just there’s

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Rachel Covello]: just no point to it like

[Nick McGowan]: ah

[Rachel Covello]: there are

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: so even i kind of run through

my own head and i will say okay

[Rachel Covello]: why am i about to say this

and it’s hard to stop

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: yourself it’s really really hard to stop

yourself when you’re angry you’re flared up about

[Rachel Covello]: something

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: but when you can do it the

amount of how are you feel in that

[Rachel Covello]: moment from just being able to stay

like okay am i doing this because i

[Rachel Covello]: really need to have this conversation with

this person or am i doing it because

[Rachel Covello]: i want to rile them up because

know what i’m gonna expect from them and

[Rachel Covello]: when you can just stop yourself and

say you know it’s just not worth it

[Rachel Covello]: you just feel there’s so much power

you get from from doing something like that

[Rachel Covello]: and then you just

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: choose the person to go have that

conversation and that might be a better fit

[Rachel Covello]: for that conversation or um

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: you know i think i think if

we all list again communicate better but also

[Rachel Covello]: i’m not always the best at this

but thinking before words come out of our

[Rachel Covello]: mouth and thinking through the potential repercussions

of what comes out of our mouth because

[Rachel Covello]: we can’t take it back i mean

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: you can post something on

[Nick McGowan]: out there

[Rachel Covello]: i’ve done it before where i vented

on facebook and then i’m like why did

[Rachel Covello]: i do that and i’ll delate it

and inevitably like five five seconds later i

[Rachel Covello]: get a message you just deleted this

and it’s already out there people have already

[Rachel Covello]: seen you can’t undo

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Rachel Covello]: what you

[Nick McGowan]: huh

[Rachel Covello]: just said someone’s got to have seen

it already

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: so

[Nick McGowan]: and that that’s a real that’s a

real thing that a lot of people struggle

[Nick McGowan]: with it they don’t normally talk about

like that’s not normal conversation you get into

[Rachel Covello]: eh

[Nick McGowan]: where they’re like you know i’m

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: really struggling because this one person at

work really kisses me or i have this

[Nick McGowan]: one employee that i just can’t

[Rachel Covello]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: get through and i snap off at

them most people don’t get into those conversations

[Nick McGowan]: but that’s why this show is here

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: so talk to us about you actually

go through that the process you take yourself

[Nick McGowan]: if you were to step outside yourself

and break that down a little bit when

[Nick McGowan]: you’re just about to say the words

and you grab the fucking words and throw

[Nick McGowan]: them back in your mouth

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: and go now you’re on to eat

he’s not say anything yet so what

[Rachel Covello]: well

[Nick McGowan]: is your

[Rachel Covello]: i’ve

[Nick McGowan]: process

[Rachel Covello]: already i’ve already said that i’m fairly

i can be very fairly sarcastic at times

[Rachel Covello]: i think

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: my my my former wife will say

i definitely throw out sarcasm probably at the

[Rachel Covello]: wrong timing maybe when we’re in like

a real serious conversation so i think part

[Rachel Covello]: of it for me as has been

especially the last couple of years when i’m

[Rachel Covello]: about to say something before before it

comes out of my mouth whether it’s on

[Rachel Covello]: or out of my fingers if i’m

on like facebook

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: um you know does will this come

across the astic and and um insensitive you

[Rachel Covello]: know because because

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: unfortunately facebook according to facebook i’ve wanted

to murder many people that’s not

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rachel Covello]: true but facebook can’t actually understand sarcasm

so when you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: tell your friend you know i’m goin

t kill you like facebook is like wait

[Rachel Covello]: a minute this person might

[Nick McGowan]: ace

[Rachel Covello]: kill

[Nick McGowan]: book jail

[Rachel Covello]: someone let’s yeah right

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: so so first of all how how

will facebook perceive this how well the people

[Rachel Covello]: that are reading this perceive this is

there a better way i can say this

[Rachel Covello]: um yesterday in fact there was someone

that was ran like they had this super

[Rachel Covello]: long monologue on facebook about some of

the stuff they’re going through the personal stuff

[Rachel Covello]: they’re going through like family drama and

at first the judgmental side of me which

[Rachel Covello]: i think we all naturally ha we

just have to become aware of it you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: know the judgmental side of me is

thinking why the hell are they going on

[Rachel Covello]: and on about their own their drama

like this is not the place for it

[Rachel Covello]: and then i had to push myself

back before my finger like i wouldn’t have

[Rachel Covello]: said anything mean but i had to

really like push myself back and think okay

[Rachel Covello]: what could this person be going through

are they do they have nobody to talk

[Rachel Covello]: to like could

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: this moment where they’re venting publicly be

what saves them from doing something that might

[Rachel Covello]: hurt themselves you know so

[Nick McGowan]: great question

[Rachel Covello]: if i start thinking that way and

then i can comment with then i’m commenting

[Rachel Covello]: with empathy i’m not commenting with

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: my opinion i’m not commenting with judgmet

and i’m commenting with hey just want you

[Rachel Covello]: to know that you’re being thought of

it sounds like you have a lot going

[Rachel Covello]: on right now i empathize with that

like just being able to say that such

[Rachel Covello]: a different response then hey we all

have problems like suck it up like

[Nick McGowan]: shut

[Rachel Covello]: you know

[Nick McGowan]: up

[Rachel Covello]: or why

[Nick McGowan]: exactly

[Rachel Covello]: are you venting your ship on facebook

like i just think if we just take

[Rachel Covello]: five seconds to just think before we

we act i think it’s very effective both

[Rachel Covello]: in and i’m always i’m not always

great at it i mean it’s on facebook

[Rachel Covello]: you can before you type you can

at least pause to think i think when

[Rachel Covello]: we’re communicating with someone or talking to

someone that’s a different situation it’s harder to

[Rachel Covello]: do that because you’re you could be

very reactionary um

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: and like i said i just go

back to empathy like yeah

[Nick McGowan]: a

[Rachel Covello]: even on the topics i like i’ve

we’ve talked about i do a lot of

[Rachel Covello]: the work in the l g b

t community we don’t have to agree on

[Rachel Covello]: the same things but can we at

least step back and empathize with what the

[Rachel Covello]: other person is thinking not in a

way that justifies hate i don’t i want

[Rachel Covello]: to clarify that i

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: don’t mean hey empathize with you calling

someone a name like now i’m not saying

[Rachel Covello]: that at all it’s more can i

empathize with maybe where they’re coming from or

[Rachel Covello]: what their upbringing was or what the

pain is that they have related to this

[Rachel Covello]: topic and then maybe meet them where

they are and then help to create progress

[Rachel Covello]: from where they are not and some

people won’t progress and you just have to

[Rachel Covello]: get to the point where yo accept


[Nick McGowan]: yer

[Rachel Covello]: but

[Nick McGowan]: empathy

[Rachel Covello]: just

[Nick McGowan]: will help with

[Rachel Covello]: connect

[Nick McGowan]: that no

[Rachel Covello]: with

[Nick McGowan]: matter

[Rachel Covello]: them

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Rachel Covello]: on facebook so you don’t comment with

stupid things yeah

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: i’ve

[Nick McGowan]: it

[Rachel Covello]: been

[Nick McGowan]: is

[Rachel Covello]: put

[Nick McGowan]: funny

[Rachel Covello]: in

[Nick McGowan]: because

[Rachel Covello]: facebook

[Nick McGowan]: there

[Rachel Covello]: jail a couple of times

[Nick McGowan]: well some of those things are stupid

when you get put in facebook jail because

[Nick McGowan]: of something that you didn’t actually mean

but i’ve also seen other people post things

[Nick McGowan]: and then they disappear for a couple

of weeks and then

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: they come back with a post it’s

like i’m back like

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: i thought so because that

[Rachel Covello]: speaking

[Nick McGowan]: ship you

[Rachel Covello]: of

[Nick McGowan]: posted

[Rachel Covello]: cat

[Nick McGowan]: a little while

[Rachel Covello]: speaking of comedy there’s a couple of

comedians that i’ve connected with on facebook over

[Rachel Covello]: the last several over the last few

months and they are always so proud when

[Rachel Covello]: they wind up in facebook j because

we’re you know they’re always saying things that

[Rachel Covello]: are sarcastic and then

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: you’re like wait a minute facebook doesn’t

get sarcasm and you know i used to

[Rachel Covello]: get like when we talk about insecurity

so i’ve been on facebook since it started

[Rachel Covello]: and i use it a

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: lot just like you probably do from

net working and growing my following and when

[Rachel Covello]: i came to florida i think i

friended every gay person in florida or i

[Rachel Covello]: at least tried

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rachel Covello]: um there’s a lot more gay than

five thousand people but you know i tried

[Rachel Covello]: to get them all and i wound

up i think i have like the five

[Rachel Covello]: thousand you know max friends on facebook

i use the front the term friends very

[Rachel Covello]: very loosely

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: but i used to get upset when

like someone would unfaugtlike un friend me um

[Rachel Covello]: i mean this happened a lot when

my x and i broke up because you

[Rachel Covello]: know people choose sides and they unfriends

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Rachel Covello]: one person or the other and i

used to take it so personally i’m like

[Rachel Covello]: why do they unfriend

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: me now the more confident secure person

is saying thank god somebody in fronted me

[Rachel Covello]: that now i can

[Nick McGowan]: goodbye

[Rachel Covello]: now i can add more people and

connect with more positive energy so i kind

[Rachel Covello]: of just reframe

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: it and look at it a different

way if if if people are in front

[Rachel Covello]: of me there just not meant to

be in my circle anymore and it’s time

[Rachel Covello]: to find a new positive circle

[Nick McGowan]: that’s a great point you know there

are people that are building a business like

[Nick McGowan]: yourself like myself even with the podcast

coaching and other things that other people are

[Nick McGowan]: doing that they look at these little

macro things and think okay some somebody unfriended

[Nick McGowan]: me what’s wrong with me that’s

[Rachel Covello]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: a beautiful point to say is there

anything wrong with me other things that

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: i’m working on all right cool moving

along and you just keep moving the times

[Nick McGowan]: were looked at posts that i’ve posted

im like this is a really good post

[Nick McGowan]: people like the damn thing i’m like

well king come on people

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: i thought this was a great post

[Rachel Covello]: i’ll

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Rachel Covello]: follow

[Nick McGowan]: it doesn’t

[Rachel Covello]: you Nick

[Nick McGowan]: matter

[Rachel Covello]: and like every post if it makes

you feel

[Nick McGowan]: don’t

[Rachel Covello]: better

[Nick McGowan]: you don’t you do that i mean

those are things and it’s real talk of

[Nick McGowan]: going through that over the course of

time since facebook’s been around that’s part of

[Nick McGowan]: social media where somebody post anything and

they’re like i want everybody in the world

[Nick McGowan]: to like it and that’s not how

it should be i know

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: there are certain things i post even

like mind set wise that i’m like most

[Nick McGowan]: people that i’m friends with that have

been part of my facebook friends since two

[Nick McGowan]: thousand six or whatever some of the

mark on a post or you know like

[Nick McGowan]: it other people are going to like

it nd

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: there’s consistency with it

[Rachel Covello]: and you just

[Nick McGowan]: then i can

[Rachel Covello]: and

[Nick McGowan]: post

[Rachel Covello]: you

[Nick McGowan]: something

[Rachel Covello]: never

[Nick McGowan]: stupid

[Rachel Covello]: know

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Rachel Covello]: what’s

[Nick McGowan]: they go

[Rachel Covello]: yeah you never know it’s going to

get a reaction like i’ll post something

[Nick McGowan]: actly

[Rachel Covello]: that promotes a friend’s business or my

own and of course it’s ignored because facebook

[Rachel Covello]: i guess there augorithms you to pay

for those and then

[Nick McGowan]: ah

[Rachel Covello]: and then i’ll get one where i’ll

talk one of one of the things i

[Rachel Covello]: do sometimes is like my wife and

i will have a funny convert like a

[Rachel Covello]: funny interaction

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: and then i’ll just post like the

you know force sentence exchange of that interaction

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: and those posts will always get no

reactions um the other day i posted you

[Rachel Covello]: know there’s a new lesbian bar that

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: that’s opened locally here in the ellis

county saint area in largo and it’s awesome

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: i think it’s time for a woman’s

bar there haven’t been any in this area

[Rachel Covello]: is mostly you now mostly men frequent

the lgbtbars and for women that’s not always

[Rachel Covello]: they don’t want always hang out with

a bunch of gay men like it’s just

[Rachel Covello]: not a similar scene and it’s comfortable

sometimes but i was as i said it’s

[Rachel Covello]: great that we have this new club

but let me tell you the reality this

[Rachel Covello]: lesbian like i don’t want to be

dancing and drinking lad i’m kind of tired

[Rachel Covello]: of the club scene if i see

one more drag show i’m going to go

[Rachel Covello]: crazy i would rather we all have

like a big movie like a big like

[Rachel Covello]: you know ounds where we could sit

around and have you know hot

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: coco with pajamas on kind of like

hat you do at

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Rachel Covello]: home but you’d have it with your

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Rachel Covello]: friends you know we’d have board games

we’d have like a dark board on the

[Rachel Covello]: wall where you could put a picture

of your x and just start throwing darts

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: like realistic lesbian world like let’s like

what we would and then the bar closes

[Rachel Covello]: at eight p m when most lesbians

go to bed so

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rachel Covello]: that was and so i ran about

this on

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: facebook in a jestful way that post

was so popular i had so much interaction

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Rachel Covello]: um with people chiming on what else

they would add to that lounge and those

[Rachel Covello]: always do well but yeah the ones

that you want you will and they don’t

[Rachel Covello]: you’re like all right but you can’t

take it personally any more i mean

[Nick McGowan]: at all yeah

[Rachel Covello]: just can’t

[Nick McGowan]: and it’s a

[Rachel Covello]: you

[Nick McGowan]: balance

[Rachel Covello]: know i kind of go back to

the old saying that you are the five

[Rachel Covello]: people you spend the most time with


[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Rachel Covello]: so if people are un friend on

me on facebook i don’t want that energy

[Rachel Covello]: anyway that’s not going to help me

find my my five people

[Nick McGowan]: oh yeah totally and i think for

your personal facebook that’s got to be personal

[Nick McGowan]: facebook there are people that

[Rachel Covello]: i mean

[Nick McGowan]: really

[Rachel Covello]: i do

[Nick McGowan]: try to

[Rachel Covello]: use

[Nick McGowan]: build a business through it

[Rachel Covello]: yeah i do i’ve gotten much better

at really being careful of the type of

[Rachel Covello]: content i share on facebook i still

share a lot but it’s

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: usually within my personal and business brand

so it’s you know typically something to do

[Rachel Covello]: with florida something to do with l

g b t community um something to do

[Rachel Covello]: with my my marriage or relationship in

a not in a sharing our personal stuff

[Rachel Covello]: way but more

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: in a what’s going to make people

smile and laugh that they can relate to

[Rachel Covello]: um

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: you know like the other i had

purchased um you know was updating some of

[Rachel Covello]: my personal clothes item so i was

buying a few nightgowns online and m and

[Rachel Covello]: i also because just bought a little

r v i also bought a pair of

[Rachel Covello]: mosquito pants and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah i saw

[Rachel Covello]: so

[Nick McGowan]: that post will you wear

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: these

[Rachel Covello]: it was

[Nick McGowan]: was

[Rachel Covello]: like

[Nick McGowan]: like no

[Rachel Covello]: joking on facebook i was like so

these work really well

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: it was like this cute little red

nag and then i was like a mosquito

[Rachel Covello]: pants that came in the same package

from amazon

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: i was like it’s a perfect pairing

i think they look their very you know

[Rachel Covello]: you wear your nightgown or you wear

the mosquito pants both sex in their own

[Rachel Covello]: way and um the poor guy at

the up store when i returned both of

[Rachel Covello]: them together though he got very concerned

and nervous

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rachel Covello]: he was like i’m not sure what’s

going on at your house

[Nick McGowan]: that’s

[Rachel Covello]: but

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Rachel Covello]: this

[Nick McGowan]: when you

[Rachel Covello]: is

[Nick McGowan]: go

[Rachel Covello]: strange

[Nick McGowan]: to the grocery store and you buy

like a lighter tam pons ford like where

[Nick McGowan]: the fuck did you get the c


[Rachel Covello]: well

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Rachel Covello]: that’s

[Nick McGowan]: that was

[Rachel Covello]: my

[Nick McGowan]: ile

[Rachel Covello]: wife

[Nick McGowan]: thirteen

[Rachel Covello]: the other day at this yard sale

she brings out a horse whip and she

[Nick McGowan]: did you tell er

[Rachel Covello]: brought

[Nick McGowan]: put

[Rachel Covello]: out

[Nick McGowan]: that back with the noose

[Rachel Covello]: right and spurs i think she had

a pair of spurs

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: to and then she brought out some

rope and then she brought out you know

[Rachel Covello]: the harness things that you use to

lift refrigerators like the straps

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: so she brought

[Nick McGowan]: arm

[Rachel Covello]: out

[Nick McGowan]: straps

[Rachel Covello]: a set of those that i didn’t

know what they were all i saw was

[Rachel Covello]: these giant straps she’s bringing out

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: um like i’m a little

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: concerned about this and then she brings

out a wilder i

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: it was a very strange mix of

items so

[Nick McGowan]: was there a moment where you were

like how do we have that much weird

[Nick McGowan]: ship in the house and

[Rachel Covello]: now

[Nick McGowan]: how much

[Rachel Covello]: the

[Nick McGowan]: space

[Rachel Covello]: two things

[Nick McGowan]: do we

[Rachel Covello]: that

[Nick McGowan]: have

[Rachel Covello]: concerned me the most were the autograph

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: nixon book

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: yea and the youth hitler knife

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: so like world war two this was

her grandfather s world ward two collectibles or

[Rachel Covello]: thing like people collect this tuff

[Nick McGowan]: oh yeah

[Rachel Covello]: well i was raised jewish so i

see this like youth hitler knife that i

[Rachel Covello]: never knew was even in the house

and i’m like

[Nick McGowan]: trash

[Rachel Covello]: did i marry a nazi

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rachel Covello]: but

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Rachel Covello]: i didn’t i was i was later

told that it had nothing to do with

[Rachel Covello]: at more of a collectible thing and

um but it was just such a bizarre

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: i’ve never seen a yard sale with

such bizarre bizarre stuff was it was interesting

[Nick McGowan]: i wish i could

[Rachel Covello]: kind

[Nick McGowan]: say

[Rachel Covello]: of reminds

[Nick McGowan]: that i haven’t

[Rachel Covello]: me of that

[Nick McGowan]: but

[Rachel Covello]: do you remember the old

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Rachel Covello]: the old game show and i’m totally

blinking on this i’m sure

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: some of your viewers

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: are going to know exactly what i’m

talking about but the one where you you’re

[Rachel Covello]: presented with some thing behind a curtain

and then you can choose um option one

[Rachel Covello]: or option to it’s like an old


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: show from i think the seventies or

something but then part of the game show

[Rachel Covello]: everyone in the audience is dressed up

in costumes and they have bags and during

[Rachel Covello]: part of that game you the host

yells out does anyone have a i don’t

[Rachel Covello]: know like a purple lip stick or

a blue lipstick and whoever pulls it out

[Rachel Covello]: of their purse is the next contestant

on the show i’m totally blinking on the

[Rachel Covello]: name of the show i feel like

wife would have won that show like she

[Rachel Covello]: has everything in this house

[Nick McGowan]: she’s

[Rachel Covello]: strange

[Nick McGowan]: like i’ve got three of them here

you go

[Rachel Covello]: right

[Nick McGowan]: uh that is funny

[Rachel Covello]: so

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: it’s funny to think that there are

a lot of people that keep random things

[Nick McGowan]: that may have no meaning to somebody

else like that knife somebody could look at

[Nick McGowan]: it and be like oh just a

little knife but there’s a deep story

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: to it and that

[Rachel Covello]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: person your wife specifically there’s a deep

story with her

[Rachel Covello]: mhm

[Nick McGowan]: and the family and all of that

your story

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: was a bit different you’re like it’s

who’s and it’s in my what in my

[Nick McGowan]: house get that out of here

[Rachel Covello]: well and i i mean that knife

was a perfect story because again it’s a

[Rachel Covello]: it’s a like like a nazi youth

knife which to many people is a collect

[Rachel Covello]: but it’s not an item they’re getting

because they’re nay this is not a hateful

[Rachel Covello]: item that they have in their house

in fact the kid

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: that there was a kid that bought

this it was a twenty year old that

[Rachel Covello]: collects world war two memorable that wound

up purchasing this item and it wasn’t because

[Rachel Covello]: he was pro hitler it was because

he was just fascinated with that whole era

[Rachel Covello]: in that time period just like people

collect things from the titanic or you know

[Rachel Covello]: whatever the historic the kennedies i know

are obsessed with a kennedy story um know

[Rachel Covello]: j f ka story so but i

also step back and my my wife and

[Rachel Covello]: i were raised in extremely different families

um i had the family unit the traditional

[Rachel Covello]: middle america you know um middle class

america family now my wife had a whole

[Rachel Covello]: different story that was i don’t envy

her story at all you know without sharing

[Rachel Covello]: too much detail and the woman who

owned up raising her like we have several

[Rachel Covello]: pieces of furniture in this house that

actually that knife was in there it was

[Rachel Covello]: like stored away in this cabin and

i have never even gone through um and

[Rachel Covello]: we finally started parting with it nothing

in that cabinet aside probe from that knife

[Rachel Covello]: had any kind of value but it

all has value to her because of her

[Rachel Covello]: upbringing

[Nick McGowan]: ah

[Rachel Covello]: and the person that raised her i’m

looking at that same piece of furniture thinking

[Rachel Covello]: we don’t really need that in the

house you know but i know the sedamental

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: value and i think if we can

step back and look at um i think

[Rachel Covello]: that you can relate that to any

conversation with two people that have differences of

[Rachel Covello]: opinion

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: like what is the under in that

story where is that coming from why does

[Rachel Covello]: that mean so much to her and

i think it changes the way you communicate

[Rachel Covello]: with people when you when you take

the time to do that oh

[Nick McGowan]: it actually allows you to understand

[Rachel Covello]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: what that meaning is to them because

[Rachel Covello]: right

[Nick McGowan]: if you’re if you don’t understand

[Rachel Covello]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: that at all and you go oh

this this is just taking up space it’s

[Nick McGowan]: trash

[Rachel Covello]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: that could be shocking to that person

because it has so much weight and so

[Nick McGowan]: much value to it

[Rachel Covello]: and you have to

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Rachel Covello]: be careful

[Nick McGowan]: that’s

[Rachel Covello]: about how you phrase it i could

when i first moved

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: in with her i mean i moved

into her house where she had a lot

[Rachel Covello]: of stuff already and it didn’t feel

like my space yet and we created that

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Rachel Covello]: over the last few years but if

i had come in and said this is

[Rachel Covello]: ugly like that would have minimized the

importance of her history past in her

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: life and i think that’s such an

important thing to think about when you’re on

[Rachel Covello]: any topic like maybe this

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: you know when we talk about it

in the l b t space when someone

[Rachel Covello]: know i get people often and i

think it happens more from like some of

[Rachel Covello]: my republican friends or acquaintances well thou

say like why is why is this such

[Rachel Covello]: a big deal like why is shouting

out loud and waving a rainbow flag like

[Rachel Covello]: such a deal to people like i

just don’t get it like i’m okay with

[Rachel Covello]: gay people i don’t worry about that

is what they’ll say well the reality is

[Rachel Covello]: it is a big deal to those

people so you have to step

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: back and acknowledge that and empathize with

that and stop trying to put up walls

[Rachel Covello]: that might make that other person feel

disrespected allow them the freedom to be who

[Rachel Covello]: they are in the space they are

and if it’s not a big deal to

[Rachel Covello]: you great but at least res that

it is to them and and and make

[Rachel Covello]: sure that that’s it that they’re heard

[Nick McGowan]: yeah it goes back to empathy and


[Rachel Covello]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rachel Covello]: listening

[Nick McGowan]: i love how this is yeah i

love how this is kind of wrapped back

[Nick McGowan]: to that so Rachel it’s been a

pleasure to have you on the show

[Rachel Covello]: go

[Nick McGowan]: what’s that one piece of advice you’d

give to somebody that’s on their path towards

[Nick McGowan]: self mastery

[Rachel Covello]: well aside from the things we’ve talked

about like the empathy and communication i think

[Rachel Covello]: the one thing that i’ve that is

probably the hardest thing to learn but you

[Rachel Covello]: have to is being able to take


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rachel Covello]: i think that is really the key

to success i i’ve been in a couple

[Rachel Covello]: of situation used to get so offended

by it when people would say you know

[Rachel Covello]: you’re being an asshole or that wasn’t

really nice to say but the reality is

[Rachel Covello]: when you step back and you actually

listen to it you figure out why that

[Rachel Covello]: person might have thought that way you

get an opportunity to grow i invite that

[Rachel Covello]: now when people come up to me

and say hey he that you do this

[Rachel Covello]: i look at them and i’m like

thank you first of all it diffuses a

[Rachel Covello]: situation and second of all i get

an opportunity to learn and i think that’s

[Rachel Covello]: a big part of why we’re on

this earth is to learn

[Nick McGowan]: ah

[Rachel Covello]: as much as we can

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rachel Covello]: yeah oh

[Nick McGowan]: that’s a great point absolutely so Rachel

again thank you for being on the show

[Nick McGowan]: where can people connect with you

[Rachel Covello]: so definitely follow out coast dot com

and i say out coast because we are

[Rachel Covello]: outcast but it is spelled with coast

um so out coast dot com we are

[Rachel Covello]: on facebook twitter instagram wherever and i

love to do training and consulting so if

[Rachel Covello]: anyone’s looking to learn how to better

effectively either market the l g b t

[Rachel Covello]: community are connected with the ljbt community

um and have effective and authentic conversation then

[Rachel Covello]: definitely contact me

[Nick McGowan]: good stuff again thank you Rachel and

we appreciate your time

[Rachel Covello]: thank you i appreciate it

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