Episode summary: Joe runs a marketing team in the healthcare industry and he joins us today to discuss the topic of creativity.
Did you know some people don’t think of themselves as creative? Yeah, well… that’s not really accurate and we uncover why that is.
Guest Name & Bio: Joe Tertel is an experienced marketing leader who has created, led, and implemented innovative and award-winning marketing campaigns and digital strategies.
Joe has been recognized across the industry as a marketing thought leader and digital innovator and has been a featured speaker at several regional and national conferences. Joe earned his MBA and is an active volunteer and philanthropist.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION
[Nick McGowan]: Hey Joe, welcome to the show. How are you doing, Man? [Joe Tertel]: Good, Nick. thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. [Nick McGowan]: Absolutely any chance that we get to chat. I always appreciate it. Uh, so Joe [Nick McGowan]: and I met each other a couple of years ago through a mutual friend, somebody I [Nick McGowan]: had worked with at the point. Uh, that was in graphics, and I think we were [Nick McGowan]: talking about doing some graphics work for a band that I had at that at that [Joe Tertel]: Mhm. [Nick McGowan]: moment, and he was like. You know what I think, you would actually like my [Nick McGowan]: Buddy Joes band And he said it was something that had to do with what I heard [Nick McGowan]: was flaming hot Cheetos and I was like. what. So go ahead, man, Tell us the [Nick McGowan]: name of your band. [Joe Tertel]: Oh yeah. so I’m Joe Ttel [Joe Tertel]: and I’m the guitar player and lead singer of a band called The Mild Heat, So [Joe Tertel]: we’re from [Nick McGowan]: Perfect, [Joe Tertel]: Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and we play America a blues punk so it’s a little bit [Joe Tertel]: of everything. Uh, just a loud, fun, energetic rock and roll band. [Nick McGowan]: You absolutely are. And when Rick first connected us, I remember we [Nick McGowan]: played a couple of shows together, had a couple of beers after the shows be [Nick McGowan]: cause that’s when you know it’s a good show and you’re able to sit back and [Nick McGowan]: have a couple of bruises. Uh, and we got into some really good conversations, [Nick McGowan]: some of the stuff that we were talking about back then then. that was handful [Nick McGowan]: years ago, [Joe Tertel]: Yup, [Nick McGowan]: so obviously music. but then getting into creativity, Uh, entrepreneurship, [Nick McGowan]: running agencies like all of that sort of stuff. So I wanted to have you on so [Nick McGowan]: that we can kind of get in all this Now. You’ve already mentioned your name [Nick McGowan]: and the band that you’re in and that you play a uh, an instrument, But won’t [Nick McGowan]: you go ahead and tell us what you do for a living, and uh, one thing that most [Nick McGowan]: people don’t know about you, [Joe Tertel]: yeah. So, uh, right now, I’m a senior director of performance marketing at Echo [Joe Tertel]: Health. So Echo is medical device company, [Joe Tertel]: really focused on pulmonary and Uh, cardiac disease detection. [Joe Tertel]: So we make uh, stethoscope digital stethoscopes That helps Uh, doctors, health [Joe Tertel]: care professionals, nurses, e, m T’s cardiologist, Uh, early, detect things [Joe Tertel]: like murmurs and a fib through our digital stethoscope, So been [Joe Tertel]: there for six months, Um, it’s really exciting. We’re doing some great work. [Joe Tertel]: Uh, and uh, it’s fun. Everyone’s suppression about the organization, Um, [Joe Tertel]: everyone’s super passionate about all the products and uh about what we’re [Joe Tertel]: doing And what’s really cool about it is, we’re actually making technology and [Joe Tertel]: we’re making products that are saving lives. So that’s pretty cool. Um, so I’m [Joe Tertel]: really excited to be here and do all this fun stuff. Uh, [Joe Tertel]: something that somebody doesn’t know about me. I mean you took, uh, the obvious [Joe Tertel]: one. you know that I’m and, um, [Joe Tertel]: so, uh, what else? [Joe Tertel]: Um, I’m recently engaged. Some people might not know that, so we got engaged in [Joe Tertel]: December and uh, we’re planning a wedding, so that’s fun. [Nick McGowan]: So people may see clips of this or they’ll hear the episode and you can’t tell [Nick McGowan]: how old you are now. Everybody is not like a fourteen year old saying, Look, [Nick McGowan]: I just got engaged, but you’re also not a twenty two year old kid, so it took [Nick McGowan]: some time to be able to get to that point. Is there any reason why you think [Nick McGowan]: you waited? [Joe Tertel]: Oh, that’s a really good question. Uh, finding the right person you know. Uh, [Joe Tertel]: I’m a little picky Um, but ▁ultimately, it’s probably the truth is, [Joe Tertel]: uh, [Joe Tertel]: you know, kind of put it off trying to find myself trying to find my career. [Joe Tertel]: Um, [Joe Tertel]: not sacrificing you know [Joe Tertel]: for anything for that. Uh, maybe putting s myself first, Uh, in that way [Joe Tertel]: then instead of putting someone else first, And I think I’ve kind of grown into [Joe Tertel]: that. Now I have the ability to kind of put someone else first be before [Joe Tertel]: myself. But [Nick McGowan]: H. [Joe Tertel]: honestly Nk is probably needed at this amount of time just to find someone to put [Joe Tertel]: up my shit. Uh, so, uh that. that’s also important. So yeah, it’s good I found [Joe Tertel]: a good girl. [Nick McGowan]: That’s awesome man. Then, Yeah, I can understand that you’re vastly different [Nick McGowan]: than you would have been when you were a lot younger, [Nick McGowan]: and having to grow through that with somebody. It’s interesting that you talk [Nick McGowan]: about finding yourself and seeking yourself. I’m kind of in a slightly [Nick McGowan]: different spot. Got a divorce, maybe right around the time you were getting [Nick McGowan]: engaged [Joe Tertel]: Mhm. [Nick McGowan]: and have been together with her. for, let’s you say, roughly about ten years. [Nick McGowan]: So now refining myself and thinking back to well, what was that like [Nick McGowan]: beforehand? And who am I now? and all that So For you to get engaged in your [Nick McGowan]: later thirties to be able to think through the past, Let’s say twenty years or [Nick McGowan]: so. [Nick McGowan]: What sort of advice would he give to somebody that is maybe thinking? I want [Nick McGowan]: to play that angle without just saying, like now, I just want to do the [Nick McGowan]: bachelor thing forever because you went more career focused than passion [Nick McGowan]: focused, but kind of found yourself to be able to find the girl you’re with. [Joe Tertel]: Yeah, I don’t think everybody takes the same path, right, Um, and I, I’m [Joe Tertel]: jealous of my friends who have been able to find somebody [Nick McGowan]: Hm. [Joe Tertel]: and be with somebody since they. you know, early twenties. Um, that’s exciting [Joe Tertel]: for them and it really works for them. Uh, for me, it was you know. I did think [Joe Tertel]: you know. Oh, I’ll be married and have kids by twenty eight, right, um, but it [Joe Tertel]: didn’t work that way for me and I for me. it was really all right. How? I? I [Joe Tertel]: was having success, you know with my career, but I wasn’t uh, really, I. I had [Joe Tertel]: a bigger vision for myself and I wanted to keep getting there. You know, I went [Joe Tertel]: back for my masters, and you know, all that time you’re working and you’re [Joe Tertel]: going to school, So where is their time to date right? or is there time to see [Nick McGowan]: Yeah, Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: somebody really really commits. Uh, even [Nick McGowan]: yeah, [Joe Tertel]: then, other things like all right, finish your masters. Now you go ont to a new [Joe Tertel]: career, a new job, and you really dedicate yourself to that. Um, so yeah, it’s [Joe Tertel]: it’s uh, you know, trying to find the right, trying to find time for for [Joe Tertel]: everybody, [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: trying to find time for yourself, being involved in a lot of like volunteers [Joe Tertel]: organizations you know. Do that because? you know not to find people, but [Joe Tertel]: really to really help the organization and Um, you know, and and help the [Joe Tertel]: community. Uh, so it’s it’s just been a. It’s been a fun trip. It’s been, you [Joe Tertel]: know, exciting. And uh, you know it’s just that time in my life, So yeah, [Nick McGowan]: that’s uh. that’s interesting. [Nick McGowan]: the time in your life you know cause, everything’s seasonal. Um, Sometimes it’s [Nick McGowan]: a long long season, sometimes it short season. Uhve, I’ve never gone to [Nick McGowan]: college route, Kind of just got out of school and got into business and [Nick McGowan]: started getting my ass kicked and then figure out how to make money, et Cetera, but I know that there are people that will go continuously Like I got [Nick McGowan]: one degree. I got another, I got another. I got another. I can imagine that [Nick McGowan]: eats up so much time, but so could a job or so, could anything else that [Nick McGowan]: you’re going to dump yourself into, So here you are. You’ve built yourself up [Nick McGowan]: with all of that. You’ve gotten used to that being how you work and how you [Nick McGowan]: operate. How are you changing that now and mindset wise to be able to say Hey, [Nick McGowan]: sometimes I don’t need to push that hard and I actually do need to spend a [Nick McGowan]: little bit more time in this realm of the world. [Joe Tertel]: yeah, yeah, it’s a really good question. Um, and how I would mean? I answered a [Joe Tertel]: couple of different ways. Nick. Um, you know I, I did my undergrad graphic [Joe Tertel]: design right, And uh, you know what? the Rick who you met? you know that [Joe Tertel]: introduced us. You know, he and I went to college together for graph design. [Joe Tertel]: That’s how we met [Joe Tertel]: and [Joe Tertel]: you know, as I was. Uh, you know, I got worked at an agency of college, Um, I [Joe Tertel]: had a minor in business, and which is interesting ’cause I didn’t know if I’d [Joe Tertel]: actually go into business. You always thought I’d be like an art director or [Joe Tertel]: something to that [Nick McGowan]: Hm, [Joe Tertel]: nature, you know, but I said you know, I. I. I feel like that’s the right [Joe Tertel]: direction to go, you know, and learn a little bit more about marketing, and [Joe Tertel]: learn a little bit more about business, and learn a little bit more about [Joe Tertel]: accounting. Other things besides just art and design. So I went and got that [Joe Tertel]: minor and uh, it was interest ’cause as the first graphic design student ever [Joe Tertel]: to have a business minor. So like speaking about all those in at my college [Joe Tertel]: right, so speaking about trying to find time, I was literally taking one extra [Joe Tertel]: course a semester than anybody else in my, You know, in my program. Um. [Joe Tertel]: So it was so I think I was fortunate to kind of be forward thinking. That way, [Joe Tertel]: Um got started an agency you know, read out of college, And the reason I cut [Joe Tertel]: that job is because I had a business minor. They knew I could walk in and you [Joe Tertel]: know, talk to clients. They knew I can walk in and manage projects and had a [Joe Tertel]: marketing background So not only could I design websites, but I could also help [Joe Tertel]: market them. [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: Um. So I was there for three about six months, and that agency actually got [Nick McGowan]: Hm, Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: bought out and it got bought out by agency I was with for eleven years. [Nick McGowan]: Hm, [Joe Tertel]: Um, And what was interesting there? It was kind of start to answer your [Joe Tertel]: question. But what was interesting was when they brought me on board. Um, they [Joe Tertel]: said Hey, we don’t need. We don’t need another designer. We have all these [Joe Tertel]: other designers over here. What we really need is someone that understands [Joe Tertel]: digital marketing right that understands that we called E marketing. Remember [Joe Tertel]: that, uh, uh, that’s what we called back then, so they really needed someone [Joe Tertel]: that understood that and [Joe Tertel]: I did. um. but I uh felt I was always a designer. right. I was always this guy [Joe Tertel]: who you know wanted to design and be creative. and Um, and for me, it was like [Joe Tertel]: All right. You know what? I’ll take the challenge, ’cause I’m always up for a [Joe Tertel]: challenge. I’ll take the challenge, uh, and help build up a digital marketing [Joe Tertel]: area in this agency, but I always had the back of mind. I’ll be a designer. [Joe Tertel]: I’ll you know, I’ll really be a designer. Well, I figured out really early on [Joe Tertel]: that I don’t stand a chance against these other designers. [Nick McGowan]: y, [Joe Tertel]: Um, and I and I also felt uh or learned. Really. At that point was wow. I [Joe Tertel]: thought it was a really good designer in college. I. I was good. I don’t know, [Joe Tertel]: really good, but I was good, but what I realized at that point was that I [Joe Tertel]: wasn’t as good a designer as I was, but I was really really good at marketing [Joe Tertel]: myself right and marketing all my great projects and marketing all my great [Joe Tertel]: things. So I found out looking in myself and looking the mirror was like, wait, [Joe Tertel]: hold on. I’m not a designer. I’m a marketer, I’ve always been a marketer, and [Joe Tertel]: um, [Joe Tertel]: that’s that’s the one thing even now and you know I went. I was. I was at Uh, [Joe Tertel]: that agency for eleven years, and that’s when I went back and got my masters [Joe Tertel]: because I knew I needed more marketing to continue my any more right to to [Joe Tertel]: continue my career and really grow. I was hitting a ceiling, so [Joe Tertel]: I think throughout the one thing has always been [Joe Tertel]: to really understand myself and and find where I can grow. Where are? There’s [Joe Tertel]: areas for me to grow and then go after that, right. Um, so [Joe Tertel]: I’ve been lucky enough to be able to do that really early on, and then kind of [Joe Tertel]: find mentors or people that can guide me in the right direction to be able to [Joe Tertel]: you know. fill that space fill, you know, fill the area. I think I need to to [Joe Tertel]: grow in. Um to be more well rounded. and [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: um, I mean, that’s what I would. That’s that’s my. I suggest anybody that you [Joe Tertel]: know. What do I do? How do I kind of figure this out Is [Joe Tertel]: where are you really good and how can you grow better? But then there’s [Joe Tertel]: also these areas. how how can you grow or improve yourself in other ways. To [Joe Tertel]: really move that other level level up. So [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: I always tell my people everybody, I work with my employees. All boats rise [Joe Tertel]: Right if you do good work, someone else does good work. We all do good work. So [Joe Tertel]: all boats rise, and it’s kind of the same way, right if you’re really good at [Joe Tertel]: something and you can get a little better here all boats rise. So um, that’s [Nick McGowan]: Yeah, [Joe Tertel]: that’s what I talk about a lot. [Nick McGowan]: and that has a lot to do with discipline and self-mastery. When you think [Nick McGowan]: of focusing on one thing that you’re like, I’m going to work on this thing. [Nick McGowan]: God, even if it’s just doing the dishes, something [Joe Tertel]: Mhm, [Nick McGowan]: stupid as I’m just going to do the dishes. You don’t go in and start throwing [Nick McGowan]: shit around and go well, we don’t need this and breaking things. You [Nick McGowan]: understand. You need to have a certain level of gentleness, or what have you? [Nick McGowan]: and you kind of move through and you do it. Even in those little moments you [Nick McGowan]: can find little things. You go. Oh well, if I clean this or put these all all [Nick McGowan]: these utensils together in one cup, I can clean them all later and you start [Nick McGowan]: like learning little things that you can do. I think we at times miss those [Nick McGowan]: moments that are just literally right in front of us. the little areas where [Nick McGowan]: you can go. Can I do a little bit better, and some of that may come from our [Nick McGowan]: parents? It may come from. Um, you know, the experiences that we have? it may [Nick McGowan]: come from a ton of different things, but I think at the core of it that’s a [Nick McGowan]: growth mindset Where the fixed mindset folks are going to say, Ma. we can’t do [Nick McGowan]: it Because that’s not how we are. it’s not what I do. it’s not what my role [Nick McGowan]: is, and you’ve always been looking at. Well, how do I do A little better Or [Nick McGowan]: how do I make these changes here? Where do you think that came from? Moz? up? [Nick McGowan]: A parental thing is at just an innate thing. Where [Joe Tertel]: yeah, [Nick McGowan]: did it come from? [Joe Tertel]: um, I think you know, always pushing, always moving on to the you know to make [Joe Tertel]: to better yourself Has been just some something all the way back to when I was. [Joe Tertel]: You know a young kid, Um, you know from my parents or being a boy scout and [Joe Tertel]: Eagle Scout, and or um, you know sports being really involved in sports, those [Joe Tertel]: type of things. but you know, even although even you sports as an example, [Joe Tertel]: right, um, I was never the tallest guy, right, never the fastest kid. But I [Joe Tertel]: kind of knew my place on the court right, and I knew that I could be a good [Joe Tertel]: point, Guuard. I can direct to other people ’cause I knew who where to put the [Joe Tertel]: tall guy and where put the fast guy, you know, and run the play. right. Um, so [Joe Tertel]: I think I’ve kind of always known or I’ve had. I was fortunate I, or blessed [Joe Tertel]: enough to be able to have people around me that could say This is what you need [Joe Tertel]: to work on. This is where you are right, but at the same time not boxing me in, [Joe Tertel]: Um, and saying hey, you’re the short guy. you’ you? You can’t jump or you? You [Joe Tertel]: know you’re you know you can’t shoot right, Um, or you’re not welcome here. Um, [Joe Tertel]: I’ve been fortunate enough. I haven’t had that, but I’ve have been very. I’ [Joe Tertel]: have been challenged, and that’s the other pieces you know. Don’t tell me I [Joe Tertel]: can’t do something ’cause then I want to do it even more. [Nick McGowan]: Mhm? [Joe Tertel]: Um, [Joe Tertel]: but I also have to recognize where I can be successful and I think that’s been. [Joe Tertel]: you know, when I, I look back at that point where someone said. Oh, wait. [Joe Tertel]: there’s never been anybody here that’s ever gotten Uh a business minor right. [Joe Tertel]: I’m gonna do it right. I know it’s pos. It’s not impossible for me to do. I’m [Joe Tertel]: gonna do it all right. put the time in. do it. You know you’re not a [Joe Tertel]: designer. We need you to do marketing [Joe Tertel]: All right. Can I do it? Yeah, I can do it. I’ll take that challenge and do it. [Joe Tertel]: You know. Um, so it’s been those type of moments Really have been of [Joe Tertel]: somebody saying Hey, I need you to do this. This is where we can be successful. [Joe Tertel]: Somebody kind of recognizing your skill set. [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm, Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: And for me, that’s probably the best way to put it. recognizing your skill [Joe Tertel]: set. and then being having someone say this is what you’re really really good [Joe Tertel]: at. You might not even know, but this is what you’re really good at, and [Joe Tertel]: then accepting that and understanding that hey, you know you might not be as [Joe Tertel]: good at this one thing over here that you’ve always wanted to do. Um, but and [Joe Tertel]: I’ll use design as a good example, Nick, because you know I’m not a designer [Joe Tertel]: anymore at my job, but I still am creative and I still do design work you know [Joe Tertel]: for band posters, or for you know, other things like that, or I can get my [Joe Tertel]: creativity out and writing a song, or you know, or you know, drawing or [Joe Tertel]: something like that. That doesn’t go. You know, might not be published, but I [Joe Tertel]: still get it out. [Joe Tertel]: Um, so [Joe Tertel]: yeah, [Nick McGowan]: Yeah, you got to scratch that Edch. No matter [Joe Tertel]: yeah, right, [Nick McGowan]: what you got, allow that to come out and work through it. It sounds like the [Nick McGowan]: people that were your mentors or leaders where people that actually saw [Nick McGowan]: something within you and you probably [Joe Tertel]: Mhm. [Nick McGowan]: had enough respect for them to be able to listen, because there are certain [Joe Tertel]: yeah, [Nick McGowan]: times where somebody can see. [Nick McGowan]: Sometimes it just experience like they’ve just been on this planet a couple [Nick McGowan]: years longer or decades longer, and they can see the steps that you’re taking [Nick McGowan]: and they can say Hey here. You might hit this, so if you do this thing back [Nick McGowan]: here, you’ll be better equipped when you get up the mountain and for you to be [Nick McGowan]: able to have that resp fact to say, okay, I’ll do that and I’ll be coachable. [Nick McGowan]: It’s a beautiful recipe because there are certain pieces of that. if any [Nick McGowan]: of it was slightly off, it just wouldn’t have mattered. Those [Joe Tertel]: right, [Nick McGowan]: people could have been a dick, or you could have been like, Eh, cool, You’re [Nick McGowan]: old. You don’t get it and [Joe Tertel]: yeah, [Nick McGowan]: gone on your own route. And but that’s not the case, so you’ve been very very [Nick McGowan]: coachable. [Nick McGowan]: Was there any moment that really stood out to you where you were like? I feel [Nick McGowan]: like now you can look back and you go. And I was so close to not being [Nick McGowan]: coachable and making a decision. Do something different. that would have [Nick McGowan]: altered where you’re at. But you took that dive when you went [Joe Tertel]: I’ve been lucky enough to be able to take criticism, [Joe Tertel]: Um, effectively, [Joe Tertel]: Um, and [Joe Tertel]: I’ve I think I’ve been [Joe Tertel]: probably look back. you know, been raised to respect right, [Joe Tertel]: and uh, you know, respect people for who they are, respect people for uh. where [Joe Tertel]: they’ve come from. Uh, you know and not, judge, not prejudge anybody. Um, [Joe Tertel]: I think I’ve been fortunate enough to kind of been raised like that and to [Joe Tertel]: to kind of take everyone’s opinion and then bring it all together. Uh, [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: I don’t know if there’s an exact moment I can think of, but you know I can [Joe Tertel]: always. you know. it’s these. [Joe Tertel]: It’s [Joe Tertel]: interesting when you kind of think about Um, being able to take criticism and [Joe Tertel]: accept it, Um, and not be like. You know what, Go to hell like. I don’t [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: you know that’s not me or that doesn’t work. or you know, Um, [Joe Tertel]: but you know, being able to to take it, Um, and and being like you know what [Joe Tertel]: that’s okay, you know first, I, if you don’t agree with it, that’s cool. It’s [Joe Tertel]: only words, but I always like to kind of go in and think. Oh, why? why is that [Joe Tertel]: their opinion? [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: You know. I understand what. Why do they see things that way? right? I think [Joe Tertel]: You know. I understand what. Why do they see things that way? right? I think [Joe Tertel]: it’s really easy to judge somebody [Joe Tertel]: it’s really easy to judge somebody [Joe Tertel]: based on you know, the first thing you hear first thing you say, but understand [Joe Tertel]: where they’re coming from. Why did they say that? Like why you know? Um, [Nick McGowan]: Yeah, yeah, [Joe Tertel]: You know what’s their past experience? So I think I’ve been fortunate enough to [Joe Tertel]: understand that and uh, um, [Joe Tertel]: and be able bring that to light. And then, also, like I said, be able to [Joe Tertel]: take criticism, [Joe Tertel]: you know, [Joe Tertel]: and roll with it [Nick McGowan]: in some ways, taking criticism is a talent because some people are really good [Nick McGowan]: at it [Joe Tertel]: is. [Nick McGowan]: where they’re like. Okay, great, how can I learn other people instantly get [Nick McGowan]: defensive and I wonder if some of that ties into uh experiences, or if it’s [Nick McGowan]: just a chemical. Sometimes, I think, for the most part it’s probably a mixture [Nick McGowan]: of all the things, because [Joe Tertel]: Mhm. [Nick McGowan]: typically when people are really hurt, they’re going to be very defensive no [Nick McGowan]: matter what’s happening, no matter what somebody saying. So if someone’s like [Nick McGowan]: Hey, I think you could do this a little differently and that would be great. [Nick McGowan]: They’d be like. Stop yelling at me like I absolutely did not like you need to [Nick McGowan]: calm down. I don’t know what’s happening here. you know what I mean and being [Nick McGowan]: in those kind of tough spots where people aren’t coachable because their shit [Nick McGowan]: that’s coming up. so I think there are those moments where we can kind of get [Nick McGowan]: stuck where we automatically judge and you touched on the judging nerve where [Nick McGowan]: you can instantly go. Oh no, then I’ve been in different meetings where [Nick McGowan]: somebody will pop out something like. Hey, we’re thinking about running this [Nick McGowan]: campaign. We’re thinking about doing this. We’re doing that and you can see [Nick McGowan]: the look on people’s faces like. Oh, why would you bring that into public and [Nick McGowan]: they’re [Joe Tertel]: yeah, [Nick McGowan]: instantly judging And it’s never something they brought to the table. Now I, [Nick McGowan]: I’ve done that in the past, too. Where a poker face doesn’t always help me. [Nick McGowan]: You know where I’m like. Oh God, what is that? Why did you? but I don’t want [Joe Tertel]: yeah, yeah, [Nick McGowan]: to see that again without going. Oh, well, what is it that you’re thinking? [Nick McGowan]: What? Where you going with this? So in the role that you’re in now having been [Nick McGowan]: through the agencies all these conversations and all this. How do you actually [Nick McGowan]: work with people in that spot where maybe at first you see something you like. [Nick McGowan]: I kind of want to throw up, but I’m going to ask you some questions. [Joe Tertel]: Nick. I’ll ask you. I’m meaning. Flip a question on you real quick. Have you? [Joe Tertel]: uh? have you ever been part of or run a brainstorming session [Nick McGowan]: Oh yeah, [Joe Tertel]: like build a campaign? Right? And what’s the first thing that they say in a [Nick McGowan]: Mhm’, problem. [Joe Tertel]: brainstorming session? [Joe Tertel]: No, Well, that’s a. What’s the problem and there’s no bad ideas [Joe Tertel]: right. Like throw ’em all on the board. There are bad. [Nick McGowan]: Yeah, that’s typically it’. typically a little later. Whether like all, right, [Joe Tertel]: but at this you know, for the next hour there’s no bad ideas. An effective [Joe Tertel]: brainstorming session right, [Nick McGowan]: yeah, [Joe Tertel]: is it? it says All right. For the next half hour there’s no bad ideas. We’re [Joe Tertel]: putting everything on the wall and there’s no judging, so you could say that, [Joe Tertel]: and you know, in my my career, my in the leadership role I’m in. it’s my job to [Joe Tertel]: say. I welcome all crazy ideas. You right because [Joe Tertel]: one of those crazy ideas are going to be the next big thing, or one of those [Joe Tertel]: crazy ideas. Tweaking it just a little bit with a real sensible idea is going [Joe Tertel]: to make a lot of you know a lot of money. so I [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: mean that’s that’s kind of the purpose of a brainstorming session, or or [Joe Tertel]: thinking like a brainstorming session. And there are no crazy ideas. Um, [Joe Tertel]: and uh, you know, I’m constantly throwing out crazy ideas to my team and I [Joe Tertel]: welcome crazy ideas every day. Uh, and I think that’s encouraging that, Um, and [Joe Tertel]: then being okay for someone to say Jo, that’s that was stupid. Right and being [Joe Tertel]: like okay. Oh, next on the next one you know. like being okay with that is. [Joe Tertel]: also, that’s a skill you know. Like I don’t know if it’s a. It’s just you know. [Joe Tertel]: it’s uh. I think there’s a little bit skill to it. Maybe [Nick McGowan]: Oh, yeah, [Joe Tertel]: you know, just being able to to roll with it. Um, but [Joe Tertel]: not being afraid to say something you know and throw out one of those crazy [Joe Tertel]: ideas. [Nick McGowan]: yeah, yeah, [Joe Tertel]: Um, [Joe Tertel]: you know, I, I think as an effective leader, [Joe Tertel]: at least, in my opinion, you know you have to welcome all those ideas and you [Joe Tertel]: have to encourage. you know. your, you know Pe, the organization that you’re [Joe Tertel]: leading your employees [Joe Tertel]: or just your friends to [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: throw out crazy ideas on. You know. Let’s what about this? What about that? Um, [Nick McGowan]: Yeah. [Joe Tertel]: you know, so, uh and welcoming them so it’s kind of like welcoming people as [Joe Tertel]: much as you’re welcoming Um. ideas. so don’t throw prejudgment at people and [Joe Tertel]: don’ throw prejudgment in ideas right. [Nick McGowan]: Sure [Joe Tertel]: So that’s a good way to think about it. [Nick McGowan]: if we mix the business and the people [Joe Tertel]: Yeah, [Nick McGowan]: with what’s happening in life and just business and all of that, I think [Nick McGowan]: there’s um. There’s that brainstorming session that we can. we can have with [Nick McGowan]: people, but we have to allow for it and we have to allow four people to be [Nick McGowan]: open and feel honest and feel like they can throw things around And I still [Nick McGowan]: see some of that within different. ▁zoom calls with some people where you can [Nick McGowan]: tell they want to say something, but maybe they’re a little sheepish or [Nick McGowan]: somebody else has said something to them or they like. That’s not such a great [Nick McGowan]: idea. Or what have you? but ▁ultimately creating that safe space to be able [Joe Tertel]: yeah, [Nick McGowan]: to make sure that No, they’re totally good. Uh, Typically, when I see those [Nick McGowan]: moments I’ll I’ll see it and then it’ll come to and they’ll say Hey, I want to [Nick McGowan]: bring this up. I feel a little silly with it or whatever, and you’re like, [Nick McGowan]: Hey, yeah, bring to the party. [Joe Tertel]: encourage it. [Nick McGowan]: so allowing that space exactly and even on the personal side, So if we jump to [Nick McGowan]: the mental health side there’s There’s a lot to be said for just allowing for [Nick McGowan]: safe space, and I think a lot of people need to have at least somebody that [Nick McGowan]: they talk to. You know now, Do you have mentorurs or some of those mentors [Nick McGowan]: from before, or people that you? Uh, you still consider part of your inner [Nick McGowan]: circle? [Joe Tertel]: Yeah, um, I think some of the mentors that I’ve had in the past, some have [Joe Tertel]: passed themselves or some, uh, you know, have moved on in other areas. Um, but [Joe Tertel]: I think it’s important to to, even even if they’re your friend or now, fiance, [Joe Tertel]: that you can bounce ideas off of Um, and really a lot of the times for me. I [Joe Tertel]: just need someone to listen like, let me let me say these words and shake your [Joe Tertel]: head. Say yes, you know, or just like now, but just listen so I can kind of get [Joe Tertel]: them and verbalize these ideas. Um, so that it can start once they’re out. I can [Joe Tertel]: start to craft them right. [Nick McGowan]: Yeah, [Joe Tertel]: Um. and then I can craft them into something that is bigger. Um. But if they’re [Joe Tertel]: out [Joe Tertel]: and if they never get out, then there’s nothing to build from. Um, you know, [Joe Tertel]: and if they’re if they’re terrible, once they’re out, you can get rid of them [Joe Tertel]: quicker. They’re not like stuck in your head, so [Nick McGowan]: sure, [Joe Tertel]: you’ve had some mentors that have been really really good at that, really [Joe Tertel]: challenging me. that. All right, let’s get those ideas out. Let’s get those [Joe Tertel]: things out. Um, write ‘ down on a piece of paper. write them down on a white [Joe Tertel]: board. Um, you know, and uh, and start to work through those ideas. and Um, [Joe Tertel]: it’s kind of like Hey, you know writing a song right, [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: you know, [Joe Tertel]: start putting a couple of cords together and see what happens. But if it’s kind [Joe Tertel]: of in your head, you’ll never be able to. The world will never hear it. and [Joe Tertel]: even if the world doesn’t hear it, that’s okay as long as you get it out. [Nick McGowan]: yeah. Yeah, especially with the songwriting. I know there are so many [Nick McGowan]: different ways that people write. You could write an entire book and probably [Nick McGowan]: have an entire podcast, sites and shows and everything. with how people write [Nick McGowan]: music and how they work through it. Because how they translate and kind of [Nick McGowan]: expel that stuff from them. Uh, I’ve found that over the course of time I, I [Nick McGowan]: get better with just taking steps. Just take action and then figure it out and [Nick McGowan]: you, kind of uh, you know, alluded to that with pick. A couple of Chds put it [Nick McGowan]: together. [Nick McGowan]: Sing something that’s around the same key, and see like what comes of it. [Nick McGowan]: Start messing around and start tweaking. Uh, you know, it kind of goes along [Nick McGowan]: with the brainstorming and all of that. So with the stuff that you go through [Nick McGowan]: where before and I’m going to jump A little bit. You’d said before that you [Nick McGowan]: look for those things that you can tweak and you can do better with. Now. [Nick McGowan]: Obviously you have to take some sort of action to be able to get to that door [Nick McGowan]: where you go. Hm. I think I need to tweak this. But what are you working on [Nick McGowan]: right now that you have found that you had to tweak? And what’s working for [Nick McGowan]: you to help with that? [Joe Tertel]: Yeah, yeah, I mean, if I’m putting together strategies for some big campaigns, [Joe Tertel]: or you know for the organization I’m with right now, how do we grow? how do we [Joe Tertel]: grow our business? [Nick McGowan]: Yeah, [Joe Tertel]: How do we grow? We sell more products, Um. how do we talk to a specific [Joe Tertel]: audience? Um, I think what’s really important is understanding who that [Joe Tertel]: the audience is, understands who [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: those? Um, you know what those products are, Um, understanding who wants to buy [Joe Tertel]: these particular products, You know what’s the features. What are the benefits? [Joe Tertel]: understanding all of that, Um, [Joe Tertel]: and being okay to not, [Joe Tertel]: uh, to understand that you don’t know at all, [Joe Tertel]: right, Um, you know I, I came into this position [Joe Tertel]: understanding digital marketing, not understanding medical devices, [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: Right and I and I said All right, this is a new industry. I’ve never been in [Joe Tertel]: Um. So [Joe Tertel]: going back to what we talked about earlier, I know what I have to focus on now [Joe Tertel]: to improve myself in this organization right, [Joe Tertel]: so I gotta better understand health care. I got a better understanding consultation. [Joe Tertel]: I gotta better understand how the heart works. Gotta better understand those [Joe Tertel]: things that I’ve never, really, you know, had to had like education on or [Joe Tertel]: never. [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: really, you know thought twice about right. so [Joe Tertel]: but I don’t you know the marketing piece that That’s all that’s coming. The [Joe Tertel]: easy for me, right, so [Joe Tertel]: Um? that’s what I’m tweaking. Now I’m tweaking my strateg my marketing [Joe Tertel]: strategies for audiences that I’m learning more and more about, Um. And you [Joe Tertel]: know it, it? It’s different from a specific of retail, a regular retail [Joe Tertel]: business like I’ve been in the past or a c, p G Company, Um, So that’s what I’m [Joe Tertel]: tweaking. How do I better understand how to hit a specific audience? Um, [Joe Tertel]: in, you know, in what I’m good at the marketing side, [Nick McGowan]: Now, from the marketing side, we know that we obviously need to know the [Nick McGowan]: people you want to go after you need another [Joe Tertel]: Yeah, [Nick McGowan]: demo. You need to know all the details about them. You need to build that [Nick McGowan]: person and all of that. When you do that, you set yourself into their shoes [Nick McGowan]: and figure out how they can use the product that you have. Do you think that [Nick McGowan]: helps you with questions with strategy or do not do that? [Joe Tertel]: a little bit, uh, I mean a little bit. Uh, you know, I, I try to look at it as [Joe Tertel]: in, You know what’s the environment that they’re in the setting that they’re [Joe Tertel]: in, And what? And then [Joe Tertel]: how can they? Why do they need our product Right? And then you know what are [Joe Tertel]: their individual needs And that’s where I put myself in their shoes. Like What [Joe Tertel]: do I need during this moment? [Joe Tertel]: Right? and uh, by understanding that need, then I can start to filter in. Well, [Joe Tertel]: this is. this is what our product does. This is the benefit [Nick McGowan]: Mhm? [Joe Tertel]: of our product during that time of your need, so, Um, understanding that, and [Joe Tertel]: then the other piece of it, which is really important is all right now. I [Joe Tertel]: understand their need. How do I sell that shit to them? Right like [Nick McGowan]: Yes, [Joe Tertel]: How do? so? I understand their need. [Joe Tertel]: Now I have to go find them where they’re at digitally and I have to have the [Joe Tertel]: right message that talks about that need, right, [Joe Tertel]: Um, and satisfies that need. But then I, also, the trickiest part is all right. [Joe Tertel]: I’ve answered all those things. How do I find them at the time they’re ready to [Joe Tertel]: buy [Nick McGowan]: Mhm. [Joe Tertel]: right? [Joe Tertel]: Um, or just make them aware that this product is out there [Joe Tertel]: and that when they are ready to buy, I am there for them. So it’s put in this [Joe Tertel]: three hundred and sixty degree campaign together, [Joe Tertel]: Um, in understanding, and put myself in the shoes of that person, understanding [Joe Tertel]: their needs right, and understanding their purchase behavior. And when when are [Joe Tertel]: they going to be willing to purchase again? It’s different than retail. You [Joe Tertel]: know it’s It’s not [Nick McGowan]: Hm, [Joe Tertel]: like I’m gonna go to you know, go to the store every single week. Um, you know, [Joe Tertel]: or go to the pharmacy every single week. Uh, and I can get to buy one more [Joe Tertel]: thing. It’s It’s much different than that. Um, [Joe Tertel]: So yet it’s it’s but I use a lot of research again is I’m I’m [Nick McGowan]: Mhm. [Joe Tertel]: I’m I’m talking to a lot of. in this case, doctors and nurses and and other [Joe Tertel]: people. Um, e, m, T’s to understand are where, uh, what? what are your needs? [Joe Tertel]: and how can our products potentially fill low? Some of those needs. Um, and [Joe Tertel]: then building stories around them. That’s where some of the designing [Joe Tertel]: creativity comes in from. you know, my undergrad, and, and, and growing up you [Joe Tertel]: know being a designer. it’s like how do we write that story? How do we build a [Joe Tertel]: story for that individual so that when he or she is ready to make a purchase, [Joe Tertel]: we’ve written a story. We’ve put it into their head that this is the product [Joe Tertel]: that they need to buy. Um, And why? Because other doctors have it. it offers [Joe Tertel]: this. you know, Um, and building those stories and [Joe Tertel]: it’s really fun. I mean, that’s a really fun challenge. [Joe Tertel]: Um, understanding this, and uh, [Joe Tertel]: you know, for me it’s it’s. It is a really cool challenge. and again, I’m I’m [Joe Tertel]: open to ideas and crazy ideas. and uh, you know, and bringing all those things [Joe Tertel]: to life, and Um again, that that’s what becomes fun in my job. [Nick McGowan]: It. It’s almost like the The Hunt because you’ve [Joe Tertel]: Yeah, [Nick McGowan]: got the You’ve got the business side with that minor that you have in the [Nick McGowan]: the creative side that business, little miners like we can do all this. But how [Nick McGowan]: the fuck are we going to sell it? And [Joe Tertel]: exactly yeah. [Nick McGowan]: where are these people and that hunt? trying to find those people to connect [Nick McGowan]: with them? And I really wish that more marketing folks had a business vers [Nick McGowan]: mind than just a creative first mind. But it’s a balance. You have to figure [Nick McGowan]: that stuff out and you have to balance. [Nick McGowan]: So on the note of balance, you’ve got work, you’ve got your fiance, you’ve got [Nick McGowan]: music, you’ve got all these other things. How are you finding balance in your [Nick McGowan]: own head right now? And what are you do? That’s actually helping you manage [Nick McGowan]: your mindset throughout each day? [Joe Tertel]: yeah. It’s a. I mean. that’s a great question. Um, [Joe Tertel]: you know, there’s there’s times that you got to step away [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: right and you’ve got to kind of just clear your mind, Um, you know it might. It [Joe Tertel]: might be as simple as just take a quick walk. [Joe Tertel]: Um, you know, and uh, um, and take a couple of deep breaths. Uh, you know, for [Joe Tertel]: me it is you know. I, I’ll take a small walk during the day. I walk in the [Joe Tertel]: morning. take a small walk during the day, and mostly it’s with the dog. Um, [Joe Tertel]: and [Joe Tertel]: you know, and then to even clear further, Sometimes you guy just gotta veg in [Joe Tertel]: front of the T. V, or you know, watch the sports, or you know, pick up the [Joe Tertel]: guitar and just strum a couple of cords. Not that you’re writing anything. just [Joe Tertel]: strum a couple of CDs play a couple of scales. you know, get those fingers [Joe Tertel]: moving and just kind of let all that out. Um, [Joe Tertel]: and for me that’s that’s uh, that’s my meditation right, that’s my, my moment [Joe Tertel]: of clarity. Um, you know those type of things are ways for me to clear, [Joe Tertel]: kind of get set for the the. you know. Um, you know, and the other thing, Nick. [Joe Tertel]: That helps me. I don’t know if you do this, but um, [Joe Tertel]: I like to take you know. I’ll show you. I like to take post it or a little [Joe Tertel]: piece of paper once a week, or a couple of times a week, and make my own [Joe Tertel]: checklist and you can do it digitally, but I like doing it on a piece of paper. [Joe Tertel]: Yes, you do the same thing. And if you feel really good when you start to cross [Joe Tertel]: stuff off that list, [Joe Tertel]: Um, [Joe Tertel]: and and that’s uh, That’s one of the other things. I like to take a look at [Joe Tertel]: that list Before you know. I wrap up for the day and take [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: it And and then you know, pull that list out in the beginning of day. and it’s [Joe Tertel]: not about. Oh shit. I got this stuff I gotta do tomorrow. I like to look at it [Joe Tertel]: the other way and say this is what I accomplish today. And feel good about [Joe Tertel]: it, Um, you know, and then that makes, Then Then when I turn the computer off [Joe Tertel]: for the day, I’m like All right. I did accomplish at least something. Uh. So, [Joe Tertel]: um, other ways to look at it, other ways to think about it, other ways to kind [Joe Tertel]: of keep yourself sane, [Nick McGowan]: Sure, Yeah, I was talking to somebody the other day about the hustle C culture [Nick McGowan]: and how you, um, [Nick McGowan]: maybe like ten years ago we were all like man, We just need to [Nick McGowan]: all this work. And now you’re like fuck all of that like every ounce of that, [Nick McGowan]: because I’ve been through that and you’ve got to take some time away where [Nick McGowan]: even if you’re doing the things real like you, I can accomplish one more [Nick McGowan]: thing. I can just do this one more thing. I can do this one more like. Oh, [Nick McGowan]: well, I’m halfway done this, so I may as well just do this one other thing and [Nick McGowan]: the next thing you know, it’s ten o’clock at night. You’ve got [Joe Tertel]: y [Nick McGowan]: to be able to pull yourself away to be able to do stuff that. just not what [Nick McGowan]: you were just focusing on. So those little winds of picking up the guitar and [Nick McGowan]: just strumming a proper cord and just feeling that big, old E minor or that [Nick McGowan]: open day or whatever and just allowing it to ring out I think probably speaks [Nick McGowan]: to our souls a little differently than people that aren’t musicians where [Nick McGowan]: they’re like. I have no idea you just name letters. At this point. This is [Nick McGowan]: stupid, [Nick McGowan]: but [Joe Tertel]: agree, And and I and I add this, Um, you know, bringing back all the way to the [Joe Tertel]: beginning, Um, I was a part of that Hustle culture, right, I [Nick McGowan]: yeah, [Joe Tertel]: was part of do, do. do. Uh, you know, eight o’clock to ten o’clock, eight [Joe Tertel]: o’clock to midnight. Um, going back at it, and uh, that’s why it took me so [Joe Tertel]: long to find someone to put up my shit. Because [Nick McGowan]: hm. [Joe Tertel]: you know I was due to do, and a lot of that do was myself. But then a lot of [Joe Tertel]: that do was, you know, I just didn’t get the next thing done. I need everything [Joe Tertel]: off this list. Everything [Nick McGowan]: yeah, [Joe Tertel]: off this list needs to be checked before I could go to bed [Joe Tertel]: before I could call it a day. Everything [Nick McGowan]: hm. [Joe Tertel]: and now, as I’ve kind of grown, Um, it’s not about getting everything off that [Joe Tertel]: list. It’s making that list. uh, achievable, Um. prioritizing appropriately, [Joe Tertel]: Um, and then looking at it as in, I don’t have to worry about getting this [Joe Tertel]: stuff done today. Look at what I’ve accomplished today. [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: Uh, and I think by doing that it’s probably made me easier to live with. [Nick McGowan]: yourself, or you mean her living with you like even in your own head. [Joe Tertel]: Yeah, [Joe Tertel]: oh yes, both, [Nick McGowan]: Oh yeah. that’s uh. [Nick McGowan]: it’s such a crazy web that we can get into with all of it. You know where [Nick McGowan]: you can just say. well, I’m doing these things because I’m excited about it. [Nick McGowan]: I really like what I do, so that doesn’t give you the license to just be an [Nick McGowan]: addict. You got to be mindful and you got to be aware and be able to pull that [Nick McGowan]: ship back. Well, you know, I appreciate you being on here and I know that we [Nick McGowan]: can talk about a lot of stuff, but want to be mindful of the creativity that [Nick McGowan]: we talked about before, Cause whenever we get in the conversations, we talk [Nick McGowan]: about creativity and how everybody is creative, but not everybody thinks that [Nick McGowan]: they are. So even that person that’s listened to us talk about music or [Nick McGowan]: whatever they, that may not be their jam, but on the creative side, what sort [Nick McGowan]: of advice could you give somebody to be able to help massage that creativity [Nick McGowan]: out of them, even if they don’t think they’re creative. [Joe Tertel]: no crazy ideas N it’s the [Nick McGowan]: Hm, [Joe Tertel]: brain storm that we talked about right, um, be, feel like there is no crazy [Joe Tertel]: ideas [Joe Tertel]: and [Joe Tertel]: we’ve talked about this before over beer and stuff. You know. I strongly [Joe Tertel]: believe anybody’s everybody’ is creative. Um, and it’s how you look at problems [Joe Tertel]: that make you creative. You don’t have to be an artist. you don’t have to be a [Joe Tertel]: musician. you don’t have to be a. You know, a painter to be [Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm, [Joe Tertel]: creative. That’s what we may think of when we define that word. but how you [Joe Tertel]: look at a problem and how you solve the problem. Um, that’s what makes [Joe Tertel]: creativity. [Joe Tertel]: and um, [Joe Tertel]: you know, and [Joe Tertel]: you look back, you know, I have a niece and a nephew. Um, and uh, [Joe Tertel]: my niece has become at a re. I mean, she’s seven years old and she should [Joe Tertel]: become this really good artist. Um, now her mom’s an art teacher, but that, so [Joe Tertel]: that helps. Uh, but [Joe Tertel]: you know [Joe Tertel]: one of the things is, [Joe Tertel]: you probably think about this and we can all think about this. At some point. [Joe Tertel]: You know it’s seven years old. You’re drawing anything and everything, And it’s [Joe Tertel]: until that moment that someone says no, or that’s really not that good Is when [Joe Tertel]: you stop. [Joe Tertel]: Um, [Nick McGowan]: Hm, [Joe Tertel]: and I think I’ve been fortunate enough to have nobody say that to me or when [Joe Tertel]: they’ve said it to me. it’s been. [Joe Tertel]: Hey, this is how you can improve that right. so, um, so we’ve all. We’ve all [Joe Tertel]: been creative, right? We grow up being creative. We’ve. you know, there’s that [Joe Tertel]: point in life where you’re really really young and you’re really creative and [Joe Tertel]: you’re throwing out crazy ideas And it’s and when you start getting you know in [Joe Tertel]: your teens and people start saying Whoa, that’s not cool. Right. that’s not you [Joe Tertel]: know. Don’t do that. you start getting judged. Um, So what I would challenge, [Joe Tertel]: everybody, too is and speaking about creativity, what I challenge everybody too [Joe Tertel]: is get rid of the prejudice. Get rid of those ideas around nothing. You know [Joe Tertel]: there there there are bad ideas. Just throw all that ideas out there and or [Joe Tertel]: throw that concept out there out of and just say hey, your’s ideas. Here’s [Joe Tertel]: here’s an interesting solution to this particular problem. [Joe Tertel]: Um, [Joe Tertel]: and then kind of work through it and there are bad ideas right. [Joe Tertel]: but we should, we should be able to like Di, identify them as bad ideas [Joe Tertel]: after the fact right, we should be able to to do that. so, um, yeah, hope, [Joe Tertel]: yeah, Hopefully, that gives some guidance around my whole idea of everybody [Joe Tertel]: creative. [Nick McGowan]: Sure, and tossing out those bad ideas is part of the uh, part of the process. [Nick McGowan]: You know, like even when you’re thinking about what are we going to do for [Nick McGowan]: dinner tonight how we could do hot dogs. No, I don’t want a hotog. We do [Nick McGowan]: baloney sandwiches. We’re going backwards. We could do steak. You know, like [Nick McGowan]: you, you think through that stuff and you have to figure that out now without [Nick McGowan]: just first thing and being like, Oh, that’s how this rocks’s And that’s what [Nick McGowan]: we’re going to do from there. Uh, well, don’t appreciate you being on, Man. [Nick McGowan]: Where can people connect with you? [Joe Tertel]: Yeah, yeah, so you can always find me on my website Joe Turtle Dot com. So ▁j [Joe Tertel]: o, e e t r t e, ▁l, uh, and uh, you know, find me on there. you can findly [Joe Tertel]: unlinked in pretty quickly and easily. Um, and then if you want to find the [Joe Tertel]: band and hear some good rock and roll music, you can find us on Facebook, And [Joe Tertel]: that’s uh, Facebook dot com, Slash the mild, He, Um, and uh, you know, N. thank [Joe Tertel]: you for having me. this was. Uh. I always enjoy talking to you and spell an [Joe Tertel]: out some crazy ideas and some crazy concepts. Uh, you know, Um, it’s [Joe Tertel]: always fun, [Nick McGowan]: Yeah, man. well, I appreciate you being on. We’ll have you on another point. [Nick McGowan]: Thank you again. [Joe Tertel]: thanks.
