How The Pandemic Led To Healing – Ep.007 – Eric Bell

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Episode summary:​ Battling with mental illness, addiction and past trauma isn’t something we should take lightly yet, WE do this with ourselves all the time. Eric and I discuss how he’s worked through addiction, ADHD, and running from problems to now having an understanding of himself and how to best operate.

Guest Name & Bio: We asked Eric about himself. Here’s what he said… 

“I have loved cars for as long as I can remember. When I was 14 years old I made my first purchase of a Yamaha dirt bike for $500. I was able to enjoy that for a few months and then sold it back to the original owner for more than I paid for it.

I was hooked.

I started studying prices and market adjustments from an early age. I have always loved shopping for cars, and many friends and relatives would consult me or ask me to go shopping with them as a buffer or for my help. I eventually turned that into a business. Phoenix Preferred .

The deck has always been stacked against the consumer in purchasing or leasing a new and used car.

I wanted to even out that deck. I have created a business where an individual has more power buying a car than even a buying service has.

I treat each client individually and get to them and their wants and needs.

To be able to bring a personal touch to the service large buying services just can’t. A recent success story, I had a client that wanted to turn in a lease early. They thought they would just turn it in and walk away. I was able to turn that into $8000 with a couple of phone calls.”

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[Nick McGowan]: Eric Bell. thank you for being on the show with me today. How you doing man?

[Eric Bell]: thanks, Nick. It’s uh, really good. It was really good to hear from you. I’m doing

[Eric Bell]: really well today. Thank you.

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, well, I’m glad that you’re here to give a little bit of context Uh to

[Nick McGowan]: the audience. Uh, Eric Bell and I have known each other for

[Nick McGowan]: six years, six or seven years. Something like that, which seems a little wild

[Nick McGowan]: To think it. that it’s been that long already. Um. He and I met each other

[Nick McGowan]: when we were in a networking group in Southeastern P. A, uh, we were both kind

[Nick McGowan]: of in the beginning stages of that group. it grew. I think from fifteen

[Nick McGowan]: members, the forty members or something like that. Uh, and we struck up a bit

[Nick McGowan]: of a friendship. Did some work together. He actually helped me with a car, and

[Nick McGowan]: we’ll get into that in a little bit. but Eric Bell. can you just tell us one thing

[Nick McGowan]: that you do for a living, and one thing that most people don’t know about you?

[Eric Bell]: sure. so uh, what I am is, I’m an uh, a buyers agent, a broker for automobile, So

[Eric Bell]: people don’t have to go into the dealership and get amazing deals. And I’ been thinking

[Eric Bell]: so hard about what. What somebody doesn’t know about me is such an open book. you

[Eric Bell]: know, Um, and I think I’ll have to say something that my wife doesn’t really know. So

[Eric Bell]: we actually watch multiple seasons of Drags together. Um, and I’ve always given the

[Eric Bell]: uh, uh, given her the

[Eric Bell]: facade that you know whatever we watch it Because you want to watch. Love the

[Eric Bell]: show.

[Eric Bell]: It’s it’s It’s funny. it’s camp Be, it’s everything it’s supposed to be, but I’ve

[Eric Bell]: never gone out and say Hey, Lets watch drag. Ra

[Eric Bell]: says it so she’ll She’ll find that interesting when she W. when she hears this

[Nick McGowan]: You’ll probably find this interesting because when you said drag race, I

[Nick McGowan]: thought of drag racing like cars.

[Eric Bell]: right, right right, Ru, Pauls, drag race.

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, and as you talk through that, I’m like. I don’t think your wife is going

[Nick McGowan]: to be into the actual drag racing, but I guess drag racing.

[Eric Bell]: Yeah, yeah, yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: Okay, Fair enough.

[Eric Bell]: yeah, yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: Yes, so that is one thing that at least I did know and I’m sure other people

[Nick McGowan]: didn’t really know

[Eric Bell]: and my wife doesn’t even know it, but she will now. so

[Nick McGowan]: You’re welcome. This is where it comes out on a podcast.

[Eric Bell]: yeah, yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: So you’re a personal car shopper. How the heck did you get into that?

[Eric Bell]: wow, uh, that’s such a long story. Um, so I’ve been into cars. I was a stereotypical

[Eric Bell]: kid, you know, played with my little hot wheels and stuff a as a kid, and um

[Eric Bell]: it just was. I have always had this dream of owning I. My first dream was to own Night

[Eric Bell]: rider, of course, you know, and that was never going to happen, but I, I wanted to own

[Eric Bell]: a black transam with a black semi-truck and a black helicopter. You know, it was just

[Eric Bell]: weird dreams. Um. But you know once when he started becoming, when I started, uh, I

[Eric Bell]: guess growing up and becoming an adult, Uh, and actually learning that you can’t own

[Eric Bell]: things like that unless you’re super rich, Um. I, I started trading for vehicles

[Eric Bell]: and my first trade was with a motorcycle, Wzy, uh, one, twenty five from a friend’s

[Eric Bell]: brother,

[Eric Bell]: and I drove that for a few months, and then sold it back to him for a profit, and

[Nick McGowan]: what?

[Eric Bell]: then turn that into my next vehicle And I was like, You know, if I can do this each

[Eric Bell]: time I can, I, I would really like that, so eventually, at fourteen, up to sixteen I

[Eric Bell]: was going to auto auctions when I was seventeen, you know, Bu. I bought a police car

[Eric Bell]: at one point in my life,

[Eric Bell]: a Texas Department of Transportation, Uh, patrol, not patrol car, but um, uh, camero

[Eric Bell]: pursuit car.

[Nick McGowan]: Oh, wow,

[Eric Bell]: So I owned that for a little while, Um, and then would just go to an auction, buy a

[Eric Bell]: car. sell it and just fell in love with doing that. And

[Eric Bell]: you know as at a young age, whenever I became an adult, Uh, I would always be

[Eric Bell]: the one people would call or want my opinions, or go shopping with them. And so I’ve

[Eric Bell]: I’ve done it my entire life. I was just always that guy people would call and about. I

[Eric Bell]: guess we’re going to go on twelve years ago. Um. I was going through a really bad

[Eric Bell]: divorce, Uh, separating from my uh, first wife.

[Eric Bell]: Um, and she,

[Eric Bell]: I had to do something that was going to fill my pole in my soul, my life that I didn’t

[Eric Bell]: know what was what it was going to do, and I decided I was going to try to make money

[Eric Bell]: doing

[Eric Bell]: Uh that on the side, just helping people buy cars. And it progressively, there’s a lot

[Eric Bell]: more into that story with my ex-wife, and stuff that I don’t know if we have time

[Eric Bell]: to really go into. But I started it and it just kind of rolled into

[Eric Bell]: Uh, a full business. you know it. It started with one. Uh, went into three, went into

[Eric Bell]: nine. Went, you know, it just kind of

[Eric Bell]: multiplied from there. Uh, had some life happen along the way? Um,

[Eric Bell]: but you know over twelve years later it’s

[Eric Bell]: become something that I earn a pretty good living where I’m doing better than I

[Eric Bell]: was when I was in the corporate world,

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: but Uh still has a lot to grow. So

[Nick McGowan]: Sure, and I

[Eric Bell]: yeah, I

[Nick McGowan]: appreciate that you are ever evolving and you’re constantly working on

[Nick McGowan]: yourself and you’re working on the business and doing it in a right way

[Nick McGowan]: without driving yourself crazy. But let’s take a little bit of a step back. So

[Eric Bell]: right way, try yourself crazy. a little bi of a step back

[Nick McGowan]: when you got the divorce

[Nick McGowan]: and you needed to find that thing, I stand what

[Eric Bell]: course. Yeah, needed to like that. See,

[Nick McGowan]: you’re talking about recently have gone through a divorce myself and I guess

[Eric Bell]: Understand what you talking

[Eric Bell]: so, and I guess the is one of those things. Yes, um,

[Nick McGowan]: the podcast is one of those things.

[Nick McGowan]: But what was it that actually led you to the car? Like? what was it about that

[Eric Bell]: what was it about that you like find something to do. That’s not right.

[Nick McGowan]: that you were like? I need to find something to do that’s not destructive.

[Eric Bell]: so, um, I, I was in my previous life. Also, I was in corporate retail management,

[Eric Bell]: Uh, and it was something that. Um, you know the grind of the AmEric Bellan workforce right.

[Eric Bell]: It’s the same thing in and out every day, um,

[Eric Bell]: uh, the corporate world that wants you to do everything for them, but doesn’t really do

[Eric Bell]: anything for you. Uh, I was really good at what I did. I was always in the top ten of

[Eric Bell]: the entire company, as far as stats, and everything goes, has multiple awards, but it

[Eric Bell]: wasn’t fulfilling anymore.

[Nick McGowan]: H.

[Eric Bell]: and one thing that happened when my life blew up. Uh, I wanted to find that something

[Eric Bell]: that would make me happy ’cause I had been doing this, Even in my relationship. I

[Eric Bell]: was just doing the same things to put on the facade of the American dream. you

[Nick McGowan]: mhm, Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: know, wife, two cars house, you know, whatever, No kids, but um,

[Eric Bell]: uh, just that

[Eric Bell]: what I thought I wanted to be, And then when my life, you know, blew up or was blowing

[Eric Bell]: up, Um, it was one of those Come to Jesus moments, you know, as as you might say, as

[Eric Bell]: some people might say, And

[Eric Bell]: it was you know, I, I B. Put, I put it on paper, and my first wife actually helped me

[Eric Bell]: put it on paper.

[Nick McGowan]: H.

[Eric Bell]: the name of the company and all that stuff. And then I was like Oh, I’m going to make

[Eric Bell]: this happens.

[Eric Bell]: And

[Eric Bell]: what happened was I started doing it. I noticed that it could actually be done. You

[Eric Bell]: know, I was doing it on the side. I was getting some sort of traction. You know, it

[Eric Bell]: would come in spurts, but you know it’d have three or four automatically. Then you go

[Eric Bell]: a month with No, and then five or six would happen and it was really exciting as it

[Eric Bell]: went along. You know, helping people go through the car buying process and getting

[Eric Bell]: paid for it, you know,

[Eric Bell]: and

[Eric Bell]: Ne O. During this all th this entire time, I was doing it part time, still working at

[Eric Bell]: my job, but I wasn’t getting fulfilled from that job, but I was getting fulfilled from

[Eric Bell]: this, and eventually that corporation noticed I wasn’t doing anything anymore. No, I

[Eric Bell]: was doing just barely enough to survive. Um. and one day, uh, my boss walked through

[Eric Bell]: the door was unannounced so I was like. Well, this is it. I know what’s going to happen

[Eric Bell]: now because your boss doesn’t show up Un announced unless you’re getting fired right?

[Eric Bell]: Um,

[Eric Bell]: and where they di? I don’t think they necessarily had grounds to fire me. Uh, they. ▁

[Eric Bell]: did let me go with all my p. t, o time and accrued vacation time, so I got a nice

[Eric Bell]: little check for Um, five figures to leave.

[Eric Bell]: so I took that check and I said Well, I’m going to officially start Phoenix Preferred

[Eric Bell]: And it’s it stayed that Phoenix preferred since the beginning, and I’ll get into where

[Eric Bell]: the title of the company comes from, too, because that has its own story. Um, but I

[Eric Bell]: took that and ran with it and quickly began growing. Uh, but then we have some life

[Eric Bell]: issues that came into Um, happen to why it didn’t continue to grow,

[Nick McGowan]: mhm.

[Eric Bell]: But we probably will get in that uh, a little bit later. but yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, I think there’s a lot of people that uh, really like to have whatever

[Nick McGowan]: their side hustle is or whatever

[Eric Bell]: right,

[Nick McGowan]: their passion project is, And that

[Eric Bell]: yeah, yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: passion project of that side hustle can absolutely turn into a full-fledged

[Nick McGowan]: business, and your prime example

[Eric Bell]: absolutely, absolutely, absolutely,

[Nick McGowan]: of that I’ve had that happen to me in the past. I do think

[Nick McGowan]: that there is a balance, though you know you’ve got to be able to be balanced

[Eric Bell]: yeah.

[Nick McGowan]: within your job that you have, and within the company that you have. You

[Eric Bell]: Yes,

[Nick McGowan]: got to balance yourself too. So

[Eric Bell]: you. yes,

[Nick McGowan]: how could you manage? How did you manage your mindset through that To be able

[Nick McGowan]: to

[Eric Bell]: I, I did not,

[Nick McGowan]: understand that. Oh fair enough.

[Eric Bell]: I. I. I didn’t

[Nick McGowan]: Hence why you are kind of watching and waiting for them to come fire. You

[Eric Bell]: well, um,

[Eric Bell]: yeah, I, I, I,

[Eric Bell]: so i,

[Eric Bell]: um,

[Eric Bell]: so I am eighty-eighty h, D, um,

[Eric Bell]: or a d, d,

[Nick McGowan]: look squirrel,

[Eric Bell]: eighty h, D, I believe is, is is what the official Um

[Eric Bell]: diagnosis is, Uh, and I’m

[Eric Bell]: bipolar too,

[Eric Bell]: which means Um. It’s very difficult for me to pay attention to one thing, all of. for

[Eric Bell]: a long period of time I get bored really quickly. I also suffer from uh, depression

[Eric Bell]: episodes and manic episodes, so

[Eric Bell]: uh, it’s all treated now. I’m doing much better as far as those um diagnoses are are

[Eric Bell]: uh, as far as they are a factor,

[Eric Bell]: but uh, being in it

[Eric Bell]: and not knowing

[Eric Bell]: what’s going on with my brain and being all over the place. Just I need to do this. I

[Eric Bell]: need to do that. I need to do multiple different things. It. It did take its toll on

[Eric Bell]: on me physically and emotionally. so

[Eric Bell]: Um,

[Eric Bell]: knowing I, the beautiful thing about Phoenix preferred is I did love to do it.

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: so even M in a manic or depressive state or even a h. D. I loved to do it, so I would

[Eric Bell]: continue to do it, But that didn’t mean my personal life didn’t suffer for it, so I

[Eric Bell]: kind of put all my everything in all my eggs in that work basket and kind of let

[Eric Bell]: everything else fall apart.

[Eric Bell]: So,

[Eric Bell]: um, and then, when all that that you did? Yes, Yes, did that. So it?

[Eric Bell]: um, and then, when all that that you did? Yes, Yes, did that. So it?

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, you keep saying that you did that.

[Nick McGowan]: You keep saying that you did that. So when you did that now here you are. You

[Nick McGowan]: have gone through that. What does that look like? Um, being able to reflect

[Eric Bell]: yes, what does that like be able to reflect that well, it’s a learning experience. you

[Nick McGowan]: back on that,

[Eric Bell]: know. I.

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: I would have if I wouldn’t have gone through that. I would have never known that, uh,

[Eric Bell]: um, I was an alcoholic. I was as a drug addict. I was a d, H, D, and bipolar, too. You

[Eric Bell]: know, all that came flushed out over the last.

[Eric Bell]: I mean, as far as the last two things, I only learned those in the last four years,

[Eric Bell]: The other

[Nick McGowan]: Hm,

[Eric Bell]: other things I learned back in two thousand seven. But and yes, I I learned a. I was

[Eric Bell]: an alcoholic and drug addict and two thousand seven. I didn’t really try to do. I. I,

[Eric Bell]: and I was sober in two thousand and seven. Uh, but it kind of had a really bad life.

[Eric Bell]: Ex experience happened in two thousand ten. As you know, uh, and things happened and

[Eric Bell]: my life fell apart again. Uh, after even after Phoenix preferred was there, So I kind

[Eric Bell]: of went workaholic for a while,

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, do you think you did that as a coping mechanism?

[Eric Bell]: so yeah, that is a coping. absolutely. yeah. yeah, uh, I never grieved the loss of my

[Eric Bell]: first wife. I just

[Eric Bell]: went straight into work and working out. Uh, I was in the best shape of my life for about

[Eric Bell]: three years after my well, actually, like, at the end of my relationship I started

[Eric Bell]: working out. I, I lost like probably forty pounds. I. I. I was looking at old

[Eric Bell]: pictures. I saw a picture and it was just I was just. I couldn’t believe how muscular

[Eric Bell]: I was and I still saw myself as a big guy. Um.

[Eric Bell]: but I, I worked out. I worked and I dated as soon as the Uh. my wife and I split, so

[Nick McGowan]: Hm,

[Eric Bell]: I never really

[Eric Bell]: felt that

[Nick McGowan]: yeah,

[Eric Bell]: loss. I never worked on that loss. I never grieved Um, Which in sobriety, you’re

[Eric Bell]: supposed to have your feelings, you’re supposed to let your feelings happen, And I was

[Eric Bell]: not doing that. I was still coping with everything with addictions of working out and

[Eric Bell]: feeling better getting that adrenaline rush

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: and work and helping people seeing them happy. I was living my life through other

[Eric Bell]: people,

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: so

[Nick McGowan]: It be such a tough thing

[Nick McGowan]: to sit and just be

[Eric Bell]: yeah, yeah, yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: in peace because it can be scary as hell when

[Eric Bell]: it is scary.

[Nick McGowan]: you’re just ▁quiet with your thoughts because your

[Eric Bell]: yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: thoughts start creeping out. So having the bipolar and a, I’m sure there is a

[Nick McGowan]: a handful of people that listen to this that are raising their hands that are

[Nick McGowan]: like y right there with you. I’m sure there are other people that are like.

[Nick McGowan]: Maybe I’ve just never gotten diagnosed. But what were the

[Eric Bell]: yeah, yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: things that stood out to you that you like you know? There may potentially be

[Nick McGowan]: an issue that I need to look into

[Eric Bell]: wow, um,

[Eric Bell]: I actually don’t think for the first few years

[Eric Bell]: I was burying it regardless, uh, it wasn’t until.

[Eric Bell]: um.

[Eric Bell]: Wow, now we’re going to have to date things

[Eric Bell]: so between two thousand and ten and two thousand and

[Eric Bell]: nineteen. I had bouts of sobriety with bouts of an amazing life, Uh, and bouts of

[Eric Bell]: relapse.

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: Um, and a lot of that has to do with Uh,

[Eric Bell]: not knowing

[Eric Bell]: Um that I was

[Eric Bell]: manic or depressive or a d. H. D. I couldn’t understand why my brain was the way it

[Eric Bell]: was like I couldn’t focus on anything. Uh, at times I could take on the world, but

[Eric Bell]: never accomplish a thing, and other times I never wanted to get out of bed, you know,

[Eric Bell]: Um, and those times I never wanted to get out of bed.

[Eric Bell]: The only way I knew how to deal with it eventually

[Eric Bell]: was

[Eric Bell]: a drink,

[Eric Bell]: you know, and it led that way again, And there’s a long period of time

[Eric Bell]: at two thousand, ten to two thousand, nineteen that, but two other, seven to two

[Eric Bell]: thousand, and Tw, oh six, seven, two thousand and thirteen. I was sober for six

[Eric Bell]: years, Um, now sober from drugs and alcohol is one thing, Uh, living a sober life

[Eric Bell]: and doing the next right thing. Um

[Eric Bell]: is another,

[Eric Bell]: so. uh, I was still

[Eric Bell]: workaholicing and exercising too much and looking for that, Uh fix somewhere else, be

[Eric Bell]: it, Uh, finding love somewhere else. I’ve met my wife, Um in two thousand and eleven,

[Eric Bell]: I believe, and I known her for a couple of years before but fell a hood over heels

[Eric Bell]: and love with her almost immediately because I was looking for something

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: other than outside of myself.

[Eric Bell]: So Um, there’s a lot a lot of learning that went in the last

[Eric Bell]: ten know, twelve, thirteen years,

[Eric Bell]: you know, And it really wasn’t for the last

[Eric Bell]: and I’m skipping around here. It was. Um. A lot has happened if fees were preferred, and me

[Eric Bell]: personally over the last twelve years.

[Eric Bell]: Um. but it really

[Eric Bell]: wasn’t until

[Eric Bell]: the pandemic, or um,

[Eric Bell]: me having my Ra, my last relapse. Uh, I went into rehab. I went into treatment in

[Eric Bell]: two thousand and nineteen,

[Eric Bell]: early two thousand, April, two thousand may have two thousand and nineteen.

[Eric Bell]: and

[Eric Bell]: uh, that’s that’s how long I’ve been over. Just let you know, Uh, April, two thousand

[Eric Bell]: and nineteen, So I am coming up on three years one day at a time. Uh, but

[Eric Bell]: uh, finally, for the first time I said I can’t do this any more and I went in

[Eric Bell]: treatment, and then the pandemic that hit. You know,

[Nick McGowan]: Hm,

[Eric Bell]: shortly after that, Uh, was it Uh? one year later the pandemic head, Uh, So I had year

[Eric Bell]: under my belt and then the pandemic hit and the pandemic was actually

[Eric Bell]: the best thing that could happen to me. Uh, in my, and Um, One of the things that I

[Eric Bell]: decided to do was um to go. I went to more meetings and at first it was I, I

[Eric Bell]: overabundantly, Oh, I went to too many meetings. I was trying to get out of myself by

[Eric Bell]: getting on ▁zoom, and doing two things, too many things. But I met my current

[Eric Bell]: sponsor, uh, in a meeting and I

[Eric Bell]: decided to

[Eric Bell]: do more therapy. also,

[Eric Bell]: so I, I learned

[Eric Bell]: many things in the pandemic, as far as sobriety goes, and having to sit with yourself

[Eric Bell]: in a nine hundred and forty square foot condo with one person

[Eric Bell]: you know.

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: Um, and you have to sit with yourself and you have to be okay if you’re not going to

[Eric Bell]: bury those feelings out in the world like I normally would.

[Eric Bell]: So it taught me how to sit with my feelings more in the last two and a half years,

[Eric Bell]: three, three years

[Eric Bell]: than

[Eric Bell]: fifteen years of trying to and work on be getting over. You know. Uh, so so yeah,

[Eric Bell]: the pandemic was actually amazing for me in my mental health, So

[Nick McGowan]: That’s such an interesting

[Eric Bell]: suching thing

[Nick McGowan]: thing to hear because most people I’ve talked to

[Eric Bell]: to

[Nick McGowan]: Um, business wise, Just you know, friendships or just people that I run into,

[Nick McGowan]: We get into

[Eric Bell]: into.

[Nick McGowan]: a conversation about the pandemic Co, and all that

[Eric Bell]: Yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: stuff. That’s typically not what they say, Typically like. Well, uh, I realize

[Nick McGowan]: that I was an alcoholic because I looked at all the bottles, or I

[Eric Bell]: right,

[Nick McGowan]: realized that I couldn’t get my

[Eric Bell]: couldn’t get my hands off myself. this

[Nick McGowan]: hands off myself because of whatever. I realized that I had issues in this way

[Nick McGowan]: be. But then there are a lot of people that don’t even realize that they have

[Nick McGowan]: those things.

[Eric Bell]: those things. so I think weirnessart

[Nick McGowan]: So I think it’s the awareness to be smart enough and open enough to go.

[Nick McGowan]: Wait a minute. This is a pattern here.

[Eric Bell]: enough to go. wait a bit.

[Eric Bell]: right

[Nick McGowan]: So how do you? How do you work on that now, knowing that you’ve had those

[Nick McGowan]: patterns and that you one day at a time. But what? what does your daily

[Eric Bell]: those patterns One day at the time

[Eric Bell]: your daily

[Nick McGowan]: life look like when it comes to that

[Eric Bell]: comes.

[Eric Bell]: Well, it’s changed since the beginning of the pandemic. Also, um, uh, my wife is a

[Eric Bell]: therapist, so she actually has built in um,

[Eric Bell]: uh, processes that she uses with her own clients and stuff. So you know we, we went

[Eric Bell]: into it. Going Okay. Well, you know exactly what to do. We. We’re going to do this,

[Eric Bell]: this and this and this, and of course that fell apart. you know. Um, it’s easy to tell

[Eric Bell]: somebody to do something to do it yourself. Is is a lot of work. Um,

[Eric Bell]: so

[Eric Bell]: you know it. it’s been. It’s been a roller coaster ride during the pandemic also, but

[Eric Bell]: it to stay active and to,

[Eric Bell]: um,

[Eric Bell]: to have things to do, you know, Have a list of things to do that’s really helped me.

[Eric Bell]: Um. we’re in the process of getting our house ready for to s put up for sale. you

[Eric Bell]: know, it’s it’s. It’s a crazy time to do that, But because I’ve had a list of things

[Eric Bell]: to do, it’s actually kept me really busy and focused. You know, Uh, over the last

[Eric Bell]: couple of months, Um and I, my, My work hasn’t suffered. Our relationship hasn’t

[Eric Bell]: suffered. You know we’ve had our drawbacks but you know any couple will,

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: Um, and I think that’s been kind of the uh difference what the pandemic has brought me

[Eric Bell]: versus the before times which I knew that I needed to do these things. I just didn’t

[Eric Bell]: do it because it’s easy for me to run out and be in the world, and just kind of forget

[Eric Bell]: about the list that I made you

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: know. now I’m

[Eric Bell]: stuck here and if I don’t get the list made, Uh, I don’t get anything accomplished.

[Eric Bell]: You know so, and there are days that I don’t want to get anything accomplished, and I

[Eric Bell]: don’t beat myself up for ‘. anymore,

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Eric Bell]: um, I, I can I and say Oh, that was I didn’t do anything today And then my wife will

[Eric Bell]: well say. Well, you got up, right you, you clean the kitchen, you fed the cats, you

[Eric Bell]: made me lunch. You did this. You did that, you know, you clean the y. you, you, you

[Eric Bell]: vacuum the house. Uh, did you? what do? What did you do for work? I did sent this one

[Eric Bell]: email And that’s what I would be mad at. Is I just sent

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: one email. She goes. Well, you did all this other stuff. Stop beating yourself up.

[Eric Bell]: Start. please not be in a martyr to

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: yourself. Um,

[Eric Bell]: but for the most part I don’t do that anymore. You know I can. I can see when I start

[Eric Bell]: to get hard on myself.

[Eric Bell]: Uh, I will list what I did

[Eric Bell]: to myself. I’m

[Nick McGowan]: that’s good.

[Eric Bell]: like okay, So you did this, this and this and this, So you weren’t a lazy person all

[Eric Bell]: day, and sometimes it’s okay to be a lazy person If

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Eric Bell]: we stay busy all the time, it can be exhausting.

[Nick McGowan]: Oh, yeah.

[Eric Bell]: Uh, so I don’t beat myself up for those little things anymore, you know, Uh, at least

[Eric Bell]: I try not to. I try to be aware Uh of what I’m thinking of, and

[Eric Bell]: then I’m able, and for the most part I’m able to let that stuff go.

[Nick McGowan]: sure.

[Eric Bell]: Uh, but my days you know,

[Eric Bell]: especially the last few weeks. Um, we do yoga every night. I, I loved doing uh, A,

[Eric Bell]: and every night like whether we want to or not, we can be exhausted and we’re like.

[Eric Bell]: Are we going to do a yoga tonight? Yes, I don’t want to, but yes, and so we’ll move

[Eric Bell]: everything out of the living room and we will set up our mats and we’ll do it. Uh, and

[Eric Bell]: we both feel great afterward and a lot of times after it. I will do a little bit of

[Eric Bell]: exercise. you know, I’ll I’ll

[Nick McGowan]: go even further.

[Eric Bell]: um. Yeah, go even a little further. Um. so it’s it’s really helped. Um,

[Eric Bell]: just my mind by

[Nick McGowan]: Sure.

[Eric Bell]: doing that. I. I actually look forward to nighttime yoga now,

[Nick McGowan]: that’s pretty cool.

[Eric Bell]: and at the start of the pandemic, I bear. I just like I only did yoga, my wife,

[Eric Bell]: also a um,

[Eric Bell]: uh, five hundred instructor. So I have my own yoga instructor in the house and I hate

[Eric Bell]: it. I didn’t really hate it. I just go

[Eric Bell]: through. I would never choose to do it. Do you want to do yoga? I guess so

[Eric Bell]: eventually I, we started doing it in the pandemic.

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: The where

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Eric Bell]: the for a little, but got started again. So

[Nick McGowan]: isn’t it interesting how once you start something, just like your wife had

[Nick McGowan]: said, Like you got out of bed. That’s a big thing. for some people. You

[Eric Bell]: yeah, yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: put clothes on. you did this. You did that like taking

[Eric Bell]: yeah, yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: those small wins. but when you’re actually able to take that first step and

[Nick McGowan]: continue to take that step, make the next step the next step. the next step.

[Nick McGowan]: we don’t have to do everything all at once but being mindful of ourselves, so

[Nick McGowan]: I appreciate that you’re showing yourself grace and being aware of what you

[Nick McGowan]: are doing what you’re not doing. It’s also huge to have accountability, so for

[Nick McGowan]: the people that are listening, be at a spouse or a friend, have some sort of

[Nick McGowan]: accountability to be able to talk about this stuff. If you feel like Hey, I’m

[Nick McGowan]: dropping the ball in a certain way. Rate your damn hand. talk to somebody

[Nick McGowan]: about it. You know, I’ve got a few friends who I’m like. Hey, I’m struggling

[Nick McGowan]: with this and I don’t need you for anything, but I just need you to know that

[Nick McGowan]: this is where I’m at right now and then

[Eric Bell]: yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: they’ll be able to check in every once in a while. Like. Hey, dude, how are

[Nick McGowan]: you doing with this thing? You’re like. Ah, thank you for the reminder, but it

[Nick McGowan]: takes that step to be able to get out and t take that first step. so

[Eric Bell]: yeah, yeah, yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: I think one of the things that we need to talk about is the whole coved thing

[Nick McGowan]: and all of that working from home. But as you’re battling through mental

[Nick McGowan]: things and working on yourself, how do you also balance making sure that you

[Nick McGowan]: are continually productive or at least doing something throughout each day?

[Eric Bell]: list a and I and I think, Um, writing something down every day. Uh, having some sort

[Eric Bell]: of goal,

[Eric Bell]: Um, be it you know, just

[Eric Bell]: send an email to this dealership,

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: you know, and that will, once I sit down and do that one email that we. Oh, yeah.

[Eric Bell]: now I got to send an email to to this person. I guess in the email of this person. And

[Eric Bell]: and it kind of gets me started in the day. And if I real. If I’m really struggling,

[Eric Bell]: you write down three or four things you know, and if I, I, I think it’s a. It’s a win

[Eric Bell]: if I cross off one thing in my list, because in the past I would try to do all for

[Eric Bell]: them at the same time and never get anything done.

[Nick McGowan]: Hm,

[Eric Bell]: Um, but if I’m able to cross off one,

[Eric Bell]: Typically, if I cross off one, I’m crossing off almost all of them because once I get

[Eric Bell]: the list started and make that goal and achieve that goal, I want to hit the next

[Eric Bell]: one.

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Eric Bell]: So list for me it’s It’s writing that list down

[Nick McGowan]: that’s good. Do you journal

[Eric Bell]: good.

[Nick McGowan]: as well?

[Eric Bell]: I, I don’t journal, um,

[Eric Bell]: um,

[Eric Bell]: we, we do. we. I do have a journal and we do it Uh, once a month, and it’s something I

[Eric Bell]: do with my wife.

[Eric Bell]: Uh, a New Moon celebration. And a ceremony that she does Uh, in her

[Eric Bell]: practice, Uh, and we sit and meditate and we read a passage and we burn some incense,

[Eric Bell]: and then we write what we, what we wanted to accomplish. what we will want to

[Eric Bell]: accomplish. You know what we want to change, or be new, or whatever it is, And so so

[Eric Bell]: technically yes, I do, journal. It’s just not every day

[Nick McGowan]: That’s cool. So

[Nick McGowan]: you take that and you walk that into the next month, and then each day you’re

[Eric Bell]: that’. so take that

[Eric Bell]: each day you’re making a list of maybe three or four different things right for you is

[Nick McGowan]: making a list of one to maybe three or four different things, and then a wind

[Nick McGowan]: for you is actually checking off one of those things which can be huge for

[Eric Bell]: actually checking off one of those things. Yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: some people, Um that

[Eric Bell]: Yeah, absolutely.

[Nick McGowan]: struggle with that And it’s whatever that medium looks like. I’m glad that you

[Eric Bell]: I’m glad you that list for you. I. I’m sure there’s some that

[Nick McGowan]: found that list. Help for you. I know, I’m sure there are some people that

[Nick McGowan]: will listen to this and go

[Eric Bell]: go

[Nick McGowan]: list your trash. They don’t

[Eric Bell]: dress. They don’t help me. I really listen all day long, so it’s a point that one thing

[Nick McGowan]: help me. I write Li all day long, so it’s funny that one thing that actually

[Eric Bell]: that actually,

[Nick McGowan]: works for you to be able to do that,

[Eric Bell]: Yeah to do that well, and there’s different,

[Eric Bell]: um, brain types and different personality types that. Uh, you know some people can

[Eric Bell]: just sit, get up in the morning and be really really productive from the g. Go. Um,

[Eric Bell]: and we can’t compare ourselves to that person.

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Eric Bell]: you know. Uh, I can get up really quick in the morning. My wife, can’t. She takes an

[Eric Bell]: hour to get up. I can jump out of bed And and you know, like I said, I could go, I’ll

[Eric Bell]: go in the kitchen, Get the cat bowls ready for to clean them up. To get ready to get

[Eric Bell]: fed. Um, I’ll make breakfast. I’ll make coffee. I’ll wipe down the kitchen, you know

[Eric Bell]: all before she ever gets up. Um,

[Eric Bell]: she’s not that type of person, but that’s a daily list for me. That’s a daily thing.

[Eric Bell]: That’s my routine. Um, once, I once, I get done with that routine and I don’t have

[Eric Bell]: anything else? I get kinda lost. it’s I.

[Nick McGowan]: huh,

[Eric Bell]: I kind of wander around the the house sometimes, Uh, and if I, the reason I wander

[Eric Bell]: around the house is if I sit down in front of the T. V. I’m I know, I’m going, get

[Eric Bell]: caught there.

[Nick McGowan]: yeah, game over right,

[Eric Bell]: You know the well for at least a couple of hours. and that’s okay, too. it’s okay

[Eric Bell]: to sit for a couple of hours.

[Nick McGowan]: yeah,

[Eric Bell]: you know. Um,

[Eric Bell]: And part of my job is I have to watch

[Eric Bell]: car reviews, you know, but for some reason I don’t watch car reviews on the T. v, but

[Eric Bell]: I’ll watch them on my laptop right here, you know, ’cause if I’m in my desk, I’m doing

[Eric Bell]: work things

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Eric Bell]: you know. and and where I love to watch Caro reviews. That’s a work thing. So if I’m A

[Eric Bell]: at the T. V, I’m watching

[Eric Bell]: Marvel movies, or Um, watch an Ozark right now. You know. So

[Eric Bell]: so you know it. it’s it’s that’s not a workspace. This is a workspace. Uh, but I

[Eric Bell]: don’t want. also don’t want to start my workspace at eight o’clock in the morning.

[Eric Bell]: Um, because then I’ll be working from eight to eight. That just doesn’t give time for

[Eric Bell]: myself in the springtime I go. I, I’ll go for a walk in the morning

[Eric Bell]: for

[Eric Bell]: twelve degrees

[Nick McGowan]: oh,

[Eric Bell]: or

[Nick McGowan]: ykes,

[Eric Bell]: so. Uh, I think when we actually went for a walk, it was in the twenties.

[Eric Bell]: That’s not what I find enjoyable. You

[Nick McGowan]: yeah,

[Eric Bell]: know, going for a walk on a nice spring day. that’s enjoyable. Um, but we do you do.

[Eric Bell]: Even if it’s cold, you do need to get outside and experience that light whether it’s

[Eric Bell]: or not to do every day. Also,

[Nick McGowan]: mhm.

[Eric Bell]: so so

[Nick McGowan]: yeah, there’s still a lot of people that work hybrid or work

[Eric Bell]: yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: from home and they’re

[Eric Bell]: yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: just stuck in the house and stuck

[Eric Bell]: yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: is all in their mind, so they can leave

[Eric Bell]: yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: the house or not, But it can be easy to not go out of your house for a couple

[Nick McGowan]: of days.

[Eric Bell]: absolutely,

[Nick McGowan]: There are times where I deal with that where I’m like. Oh, I need to go check

[Nick McGowan]: the mail. I don’t know if I have anything. the mail, but my athletes get out of

[Nick McGowan]: the house for a minute, and

[Eric Bell]: yeah, yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: like breathe some air that’s not air conditioning or heat that’s being pushed

[Nick McGowan]: throughout the house.

[Eric Bell]: yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: Um, and it sounds like you, you’ve set yourself up to figure out these of the

[Nick McGowan]: things that make me work when I’m supposed to work and putting

[Eric Bell]: yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: yourself in the right spot where Uh, you know, I think like, Um, years and

[Nick McGowan]: years and years ago. this may have been even high school, but I think a psych

[Nick McGowan]: the teacher had told us, Uh, in some class, you know, cyc class or something, Um,

[Nick McGowan]: you shouldn’t eat in your room.

[Eric Bell]: right,

[Nick McGowan]: you shouldn’t eat from your bed. You shouldn’t do all things in your bed,

[Nick McGowan]: Because then when you’re supposed to go to sleep, your brain saying well,

[Nick McGowan]: you’re used to doing eating or reading or studying or watching

[Eric Bell]: yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: T. V, or what have you? so being mindful of this is your work area. This is

[Nick McGowan]: where you do work is huge.

[Eric Bell]: yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: Where I, I still see people that they’ll move throughout house. Um, and with

[Nick McGowan]: their laptop, they’ll be sitting on the couch that move to the back porch.

[Nick McGowan]: They’ll do this. They’ll do that

[Nick McGowan]: and hey if you can do that, and it keeps you moving and keeps you

[Eric Bell]: yeah, it’

[Nick McGowan]: focused. Great. but what I’ve realized a lot of those people. they’re just

[Nick McGowan]: fidgety and just

[Eric Bell]: yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: like I don’t know, I want to go over here on to go over here and they’re just

[Nick McGowan]: half-assing things. So

[Nick McGowan]: do you have any tips or tricks that have helped you? Uh, kind of battle that

[Eric Bell]: yeah. Do you have any tips or tricks?

[Nick McGowan]: ad, then lock yourself into those modes.

[Eric Bell]: I think I think you said it. So I’m in my office right now. this is my workspace. I

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Eric Bell]: don’t. the only time I ever take my laptop out of here is to do uh, uh, a sobriety

[Eric Bell]: meeting of some sort. Um,

[Eric Bell]: But that’s really it. I don’t ever take my laptop out of here and put it on the

[Eric Bell]: uh. on the table. I don know it stays in here. Uh, virtually everything is done that

[Eric Bell]: needs to be on the laptop in in this office, Um, everything else. Uh, the kitchen

[Eric Bell]: table is for dinner. Um, now granted, we do sometimes eat in front of the T. V.

[Eric Bell]: just because you know, Um, the porch is meant for relaxing sitting outside, and being

[Eric Bell]: outside, so that the porch has been unused right now for a couple months, but you know

[Eric Bell]: morning coffee. Uh, the kitchen is meant for cooking, Um, the bedroom is I and I.

[Eric Bell]: I went through a, Um. A sleep study, during the pandemic, Tu, and

[Eric Bell]: Um, was told by the doctor,

[Eric Bell]: the bed is for

[Eric Bell]: sleep and sex.

[Nick McGowan]: Sounds about right.

[Eric Bell]: That’s that’s that’s whats. That’s what. Your’re your bed’s for. Um, So if you get out

[Eric Bell]: of bed and you’re going to read, read in your chair, Uh, read in the living room.

[Eric Bell]: it a second room or office. So, uh, my, my reading space is the couch, and or the,

[Eric Bell]: the, recliner that we have. Um, So every room has its own designation and I don’t

[Eric Bell]: try. I try not to combine those,

[Eric Bell]: so if I’m in, I know what I’ to be doing in those rooms. so

[Nick McGowan]: That makes sense.

[Eric Bell]: yeah

[Eric Bell]: and I, we don’t have a t. V in our bedroom. We don’t watch T. v. uh, for the most

[Eric Bell]: part, where you stay off our phones. That’s a tough one to break.

[Nick McGowan]: Oh yeah,

[Eric Bell]: staying off your phone in the bed. Um, you know we’re We’re just so used to this, you

[Eric Bell]: know,

[Nick McGowan]: yeah.

[Eric Bell]: Um, if i, but if if at, if at nine o’clock I put my phone down. I try not to to use

[Eric Bell]: it. Sometimes my wife has to say you’re on your phone. It’s nine thirty. Oh yeah,

[Eric Bell]: yeah, yeah, um,

[Eric Bell]: but those boundaries set for myself. help me

[Eric Bell]: daily.

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Nick McGowan]: It sounds like you got a good accountability partner with somebody that’s

[Nick McGowan]: there. That’s not nagging you about it. But just as I’m a reminder, like hey,

[Nick McGowan]: you

[Eric Bell]: Yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: said you were going to do this thing.

[Eric Bell]: yeah, yeah, I mean, I know the stories I can tell myself

[Eric Bell]: to my phone. she’s just telling you because. You told her to tell you

[Eric Bell]: that resentment can happen whether it’s r true or not,

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, yeah,

[Eric Bell]: so

[Nick McGowan]: it’s almost like when you’ um, when you’re going from thing, the thing to

[Nick McGowan]: thing, you’re looking for something like that. Uh, do you mean hit, or

[Eric Bell]: yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: even when somebody like your wife says Hey, it’s nine thirty. You said you’re

[Nick McGowan]: going to be off your phone at nine. You can instantly snap back even in your

[Nick McGowan]: head and be like shot up woman. This is the thing that I want to do. But then

[Eric Bell]: yeah, yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: like you said, you know you’re You got to think about that. You got to

[Nick McGowan]: understand Like Why is that frustration there? What’s that

[Eric Bell]: right, yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: coming from? and I think it gets back to. Sometimes you just got to be ▁quiet

[Nick McGowan]: and sit

[Eric Bell]: yeah, yep.

[Nick McGowan]: and you’d mention meditating and that you guys do that once a month. Do you

[Nick McGowan]: find that that helps you with everything you go through as well?

[Eric Bell]: Yes, um, it’s interesting because of my,

[Eric Bell]: and I think a lot of people listening will find that they’ve tried me and they can’t

[Eric Bell]: sit still. They can’t stop the thoughts

[Eric Bell]: learned. And that’s um uh,

[Eric Bell]: from meditation and having a wife and a mentor that that are proficient

[Eric Bell]: and meditating That meditation isn’t peace, and ▁quiet and sitting still. You know

[Eric Bell]: that’s what the goal is, but

[Eric Bell]: I, I twitch like you wouldn’t believe my and my wife say. When you sit that down to

[Eric Bell]: meditate, she knows I am going to be moving in itchy and twitchy and she laughs about

[Eric Bell]: it sometimes ’cause I just it’s impossible for me to sit still. It’s it’s just

[Eric Bell]: impossible. Um

[Eric Bell]: until that, a lot of times for about a minute in a meditation, then I’ll hit that

[Eric Bell]: space that’s just works. my. My brain’s just

[Eric Bell]: not. It’s just focused on nothing. Um, but a minute, one minute out of a fifteen

[Eric Bell]: minute att meditation. That’s about all I get. but that’s okay. Meditation is being

[Eric Bell]: aware

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Eric Bell]: that stuff is happening All right. That’s these thoughts are happening. I’m

[Eric Bell]: I’m moving my hands. I’m moving my feet. my foot’s fallen asleep. My knee itches my

[Eric Bell]: back, itches, you know, um, my nose. that just so in scratch, I’m on a scratch’mnna

[Eric Bell]: scratch. You know all this stuff and just being aware of what’s happening is a

[Eric Bell]: meditation.

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Eric Bell]: and until andacive,

[Nick McGowan]: it’s the active part of it.

[Eric Bell]: Yeah, until I learned that I, meditation was so frustrating, so

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Eric Bell]: frustrating. Um. but now that I know first of all how my brain works and that that’s

[Eric Bell]: not abnormal,

[Eric Bell]: and that I am doing a meditation even though it doesn’t feel like I’m doing a

[Eric Bell]: meditation, Um,

[Eric Bell]: I can sit and ▁quiet longer because of that, you know, and just being aware, Um, like

[Eric Bell]: we did a meditation

[Eric Bell]: class on last Wednesday, Uh, with our reverend, um Un. Unfortunately, he’s retiring

[Eric Bell]: from revering. He’s going into another field, but it’s like one of his last Um

[Eric Bell]: classes. He’s got a couple more months of him and he does a Wednesday evening

[Eric Bell]: meditation and uh, it’s an hour long. but the meditation’s not an hour long. It’s just

[Eric Bell]: to sit and talk and tell to you know. He asks questions like one word. How is your week

[Eric Bell]: like and you’re supposed to be chaotic, or um, you know, uplifting, you know, Say

[Eric Bell]: that one word that comes to you and then you have a little discussion on it. and then

[Eric Bell]: he sits and and does a guided meditation And I do really well with guided meditation.

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm.

[Eric Bell]: If somebody’s talking then I don’t have to listen to my own thoughts, you know, But

[Eric Bell]: then we sit and do uh a ▁quiet meditation

[Eric Bell]: And

[Eric Bell]: you know, sitting for thirty minutes is really difficult for me and I didn’t want to

[Eric Bell]: do it. I was like, Oh, you know, I haven’t seen kin. and oh man, I don’t think

[Eric Bell]: I’ve seen him in a year and a half. And so this will be the last time I did. It was

[Eric Bell]: probably a year and a half ago. We had his medication with him and he was there and it

[Eric Bell]: was good to see him

[Eric Bell]: and once I finally went there it was. Oh yeah. that’s right. I like doing this. You.

[Eric Bell]: No, it was it was. I, W. My body wanted to do something that was good for me, but my

[Eric Bell]: brain was like, Oh my God, it’s go to be so long. It says I don’t want to do it. You

[Eric Bell]: know. it’s just fighting against it. Um, but I was able to sit still and be ▁quiet for

[Eric Bell]: three minutes instead of one because it was a structure that I could follow, you know,

[Eric Bell]: and when it was over with it felt great, I cried. Uh, we talked. you know, it was

[Eric Bell]: absolutely amazing and Um,

[Eric Bell]: I want to do more of that and I say that And then I haven’t meditated since you know.

[Nick McGowan]: Well, now it’s real and it’s on a podcast. It’s going to be out there. You’d

[Eric Bell]: Uh, but I ha, own. Yeah, Yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: better do more of it.

[Eric Bell]: but I am, but I’m not beating myself up for it ’cause I have

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Eric Bell]: done yoga every day for twenty. What are we? in? twenty, twenty, five, twenty five

[Eric Bell]: days,

[Nick McGowan]: yeah, yeah,

[Eric Bell]: So

[Eric Bell]: I, my goal is being accomplished. The extras. the uh two medication? I, this or extra,

[Eric Bell]: so I accomplish extra things

[Eric Bell]: by accomplishing my goals.

[Nick McGowan]: yeah, it’s all the perspective than what you

[Eric Bell]: Yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: give it. If you say

[Eric Bell]: yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: I’m not doing enough, then yeah, you’re right. You’re not doing enough. You’re

[Nick McGowan]: going to beat the hell out of yourself, but if you’re like, Hey, this is what

[Nick McGowan]: I’m actually doing and some of that stuff is just simple things like Did you

[Nick McGowan]: brush damn teeth today? Yeah,

[Eric Bell]: right,

[Nick McGowan]: great, you enter a dentist and people you talk to will appreciate you for that

[Nick McGowan]: you know. Um, but it. it’s funny with the meditating, though, because man

[Nick McGowan]: sitting there like guy, typically do a ten to fifteen minute meditation in the

[Nick McGowan]: morning and at night, but I’ve gotten in that same spot where guided

[Nick McGowan]: meditations really do me right, because

[Eric Bell]: yeah, yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: I’m focusing on that person instead

[Eric Bell]: right.

[Nick McGowan]: of just sitting in by myself and having all these thoughts come up. and for

[Nick McGowan]: the longest time I was right there with you that I thought you know the goal

[Nick McGowan]: and the whole point to it is to be silent and be uplifted and all of this

[Nick McGowan]: stuff. But the goal of it is actually to be in those moments where you go. Oh

[Nick McGowan]: my god, my footage is shut up back to your breathing. That’s what it’s about.

[Nick McGowan]: It’s at awareness to be able to pull yourself back because I think it’s

[Nick McGowan]: training. you know. when

[Eric Bell]: Yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: you’re in that spot and you’re able to go. My footages. Well, get back to your

[Nick McGowan]: breathing. Concentrate on where you’re at That helps you in other spaces where

[Nick McGowan]: you know work or relationships or anything, so you don’t just lose your cool.

[Nick McGowan]: Uh, have you seen any anything like that come from? Um, from meditating where

[Nick McGowan]: you’ve learned how to kind of calm yourself down a little easier.

[Eric Bell]: yeah, yeah, um,

[Eric Bell]: Absolutely.

[Eric Bell]: I mean. I’ve had

[Eric Bell]: and didn pan. I want.

[Eric Bell]: instead of reacting,

[Eric Bell]: these.

[Eric Bell]: ‘ going on here and you know that’s that whole being present with yourself, you know,

[Eric Bell]: and uh, having being able to say hey, this is going on. What’s go? What do you think

[Eric Bell]: is going on and taking yourself out of it and being aware of the situation and

[Eric Bell]: then going back to that person? Uh, most of the time, ninety nine percent of the time.

[Eric Bell]: I, I’d blow it up more than it’s actually is.

[Eric Bell]: You know, uh, and instead of reacting and being oh yeah, you know, and um that that

[Eric Bell]: that meditation is just being

[Eric Bell]: the. the. The. What’s what? The? What am I trying to say? The

[Eric Bell]: parallel is that to be able to be aware of what’s going on,

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: sit back and say Okay, my foot’s itching. So what do I do about it? I scratch my foot

[Eric Bell]: and then I go back to my breathing, you know, and that’s that setting it. That’s

[Eric Bell]: sending it your own boundary for yourself and being aware of what’s going on, Um, and

[Eric Bell]: in life it’s okay. What’s going on with this problem right here? Well, let’s scratch

[Eric Bell]: that itch.

[Eric Bell]: pull it. pull away from yourself. scratch that itch, and then come back to it in a in

[Eric Bell]: a

[Eric Bell]: more pre, uh, calm mindset

[Nick McGowan]: It can be difficult to be able to do that. It takes a lot of work to be able

[Nick McGowan]: to do that. So you’ve touched on the twelve years

[Nick McGowan]: and even the stuff that you’ve been through And I know there are certain

[Nick McGowan]: things that we haven’t brought up on this podcast that I know about you. that

[Nick McGowan]: goes even further back, but here you are. You’ve experienced all this stuff

[Nick McGowan]: and you’re sitting in a better spot now. So what sort of advice can you give

[Nick McGowan]: to people that are still dealing with the shit that they were dealing with in

[Nick McGowan]: their own heads from the start of the pandemic?

[Eric Bell]: Um,

[Eric Bell]: Just remember that you know, no matter how bad you have it, somebody else has it

[Eric Bell]: worse, and everything is a learning experience.

[Eric Bell]: If we don’t move forward, Uh, if you’re not moving forward, you’re moving backwards.

[Eric Bell]: right if you’re standing in the same place and you’re beating yourself up, and you’re

[Eric Bell]: telling yourself the same story. At least this it is for me. I’m not growing.

[Eric Bell]: I am not growing, Um, for me to be a better human being and grow. It’s a. It’s one

[Eric Bell]: step forward every day, even if it’s a little baby step. You know it’s okay if it’s a

[Eric Bell]: little baby step. Uh, and if I need to stop every once in a while to contemplate where

[Eric Bell]: I’m at and that’s okay, but it’s not. It’s not getting stuck in that place.

[Eric Bell]: Um, don’t get. I can’t get stuck. And and

[Eric Bell]: just be, Oh my god, this is happening. this is happening. this is happening. Um,

[Eric Bell]: that whole, okay, why did this happen and kind of uh,

[Eric Bell]: compartmentalizing it out, and not justifying but working and out of why it

[Eric Bell]: happened and what I can do to change that you know, and most of the time it’s the

[Eric Bell]: the story I tell myself Is is a lot again. It’s a lot worse than it really is,

[Eric Bell]: and I beat myself up harder than anybody else is gonna beat me up. And when I actually

[Eric Bell]: talked to that person that caused me this pain, or um, talk to somebody else that the

[Eric Bell]: payin up cause myself. it’s usually minuscule of a problem. It’s such a small problem.

[Eric Bell]: And I made it so much bigger than it really is. And that still happens to me. It

[Eric Bell]: happens to me all the time.

[Eric Bell]: but the difference is I’m able to say Okay.

[Eric Bell]: What’s actually going on here? Why I feel this way, Um, and having a partner

[Eric Bell]: that that, actually, you can have a com communication with that you, you can sit down

[Eric Bell]: and have a conversation with having Um, a therapist psychiatrist, having um friends

[Eric Bell]: that you could say hey. I just need to vent

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Eric Bell]: or call and say hey. I need advice.

[Eric Bell]: Um. having that at in

[Eric Bell]: Wheelhouse, having that available to me helps me get through lot of things.

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, that’s important stuff, man, I think there’s a grey area

[Nick McGowan]: of that barrier for some people where they’re just in their own little world.

[Nick McGowan]: They do their own little thing. They have their family or not, or their job or

[Nick McGowan]: not, and it’s just they just continue to march on that without even stepping

[Nick McGowan]: through that through that grey area to have conversations with friends or with

[Nick McGowan]: other people. There are still conversations I have with people that I’ve known

[Nick McGowan]: for years that are like Hey, I need to tell you about this thing now.

[Nick McGowan]: Like, Well, what happened years ago?

[Nick McGowan]: Where where was this conversation years ago? They like I was still working

[Eric Bell]: Yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: through it and here’s where I’m at. Um, so I appreciate that you have those

[Nick McGowan]: circles, or at least those people that are by you that you can have those

[Nick McGowan]: conversations with, And I want to encourage other people to find at least one

[Nick McGowan]: of those.

[Nick McGowan]: If not somebody in your own circle, reach out to one of us. You reach you

[Nick McGowan]: out to me. Um, They’re going to mean to put you on spot. But I know you and I

[Nick McGowan]: know you enjoy having conversations with people and you can help where you can

[Nick McGowan]: help. So it doesn’t matter who you talk to. Just be able to have a

[Nick McGowan]: conversation and get that out. I think a lot of this can really start with

[Nick McGowan]: ourselves. Though, So Eric Bell. think about where you were at. It wasn’t your wife

[Nick McGowan]: or anybody else, were you? You were the one who had to say, Hold up. You had

[Nick McGowan]: to put your foot down and make a decision and I think a lot of people get that

[Nick McGowan]: spot, but don’t ever make that decision. So how did you

[Eric Bell]: right,

[Nick McGowan]: get through that?

[Eric Bell]: Um, it’s yeah. They say it’s hitting rock bottom right.

[Eric Bell]: Have so many things that happen in your life? Eventually, you want it to be different,

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm?

[Eric Bell]: right?

[Eric Bell]: It’s

[Eric Bell]: what is it to be in the director of your own uh movie? Do you know it? None of that.

[Eric Bell]: There’s so much more than this life. right, here. My life is one little speck of the

[Eric Bell]: entire

[Eric Bell]: universe. Um, so my importance was so big in my own head, but in reality, um,

[Eric Bell]: it’s It’s minuscule on the scale,

[Eric Bell]: so eventually, Uh, that importance led me

[Eric Bell]: to

[Eric Bell]: my. my bottom. It led me to you know I needed to fill that whole with drugs and

[Eric Bell]: alcohol, and just work, and uh, whatever else it was was. I. I could do without it,

[Eric Bell]: um, without actually living a life,

[Eric Bell]: and

[Eric Bell]: eventually I finally said I can’t do it myself anymore. This is not working. It’s just

[Eric Bell]: not working. Um, and that happened

[Eric Bell]: multiple times, actually, but this last time I, when I went, I went into treatment in

[Eric Bell]: April

[Eric Bell]: May of two thousand Nineteen was the first time that I ever thought I wasn’t important

[Eric Bell]: enough to not go into treatment. You know, up until then I’ve been fighting addiction

[Eric Bell]: since two thousand and seven, and

[Eric Bell]: I never would go into any kind of treatment, whether it was therapy or uh, int,

[Eric Bell]: inpatient, outpatient, anything, Because I was too important.

[Eric Bell]: I

[Nick McGowan]: M.

[Eric Bell]: needed to make money toll survive, and if I wasn’t going to make money, then I

[Eric Bell]: wouldn’t survive. Um, and

[Eric Bell]: never did I actually say Well,

[Eric Bell]: I’m just going to keep sliding down this slippery slope until I can’t slide anymore. And

[Eric Bell]: then how am I going to make money? You know, finally, I helped myself

[Eric Bell]: by putting myself out there by saying okay, I’m done. I can’t do this anymore. I need

[Eric Bell]: help. Um, how am I going to get help And that’s whenever

[Eric Bell]: I went into intensive outpatient treatment and I went into sober living for over six

[Eric Bell]: months. You know. Luckily I was still able to work, but I was a very very. um.

[Eric Bell]: uh, I was watched. We’ll say you know, uh, with curfews and times and stuff, and

[Eric Bell]: eventually you know, on under good behavior you get out longer, you know, and stuff

[Eric Bell]: like that, but um,

[Eric Bell]: and just like in the rest of my life I was a model person metal. uh, I say patient, but

[Eric Bell]: uh, model client. You know, I did everything I was supposed to, Uh, and it wasn’t

[Eric Bell]: bells whistles through the entire treatment, you know it was. There are some pickups

[Eric Bell]: along the way, but um, I knew I wasn’t doing it right anymore and so I was finally

[Eric Bell]: willing to listen to other people and not just say I was. ▁. Not not the facade that I

[Eric Bell]: was listening to other people

[Nick McGowan]: mhm,

[Eric Bell]: you know, and that’s what I had been doing for

[Eric Bell]: twelve years. Is I’ve been. I talk a good game. I know exactly what I need to say

[Eric Bell]: to make it look like I’m doing what I’m doing,

[Eric Bell]: you know, uh, and finally it was. You know what, Shut up. you know. You’re full of

[Eric Bell]: shit.

[Eric Bell]: Just get it done. you know,

[Nick McGowan]: yeah,

[Eric Bell]: do whatever they say, and that’s what that’s

[Eric Bell]: Um. That’s what led to where I’m at now

[Eric Bell]: I’m in a much better

[Eric Bell]: mental state. Now,

[Eric Bell]: you know, I don’t have those ups and downs that I, I don’t. I don’t spend. you know,

[Eric Bell]: days in a depression or days in a manic episode. Everything you know, I, I, I’m

[Eric Bell]: treated, I’m um e.

[Eric Bell]: I’m able to have a conversation without losing it,

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Eric Bell]: and I losing it by just being reactionary getting. or uh,

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, and I appreciate you not losing your shit on me on our call today.

[Nick McGowan]: I’m going to that. Um,

[Nick McGowan]: yeah, just that’s just for you just to make you left. Um,

[Nick McGowan]: and we’ve touched a lot of stuff that has been really good so far. Uh, I’m trying

[Nick McGowan]: to see if there’s anything else that we need to get into. Is there anything

[Nick McGowan]: that? Uh, anything else that you want to cover

[Nick McGowan]: without you

[Eric Bell]: um,

[Nick McGowan]: covering it? Tell me yes or no, so that I can move on a onto the next piece.

[Eric Bell]: yes, yeah, I. I would. I like to talk a little bit more about work,

[Nick McGowan]: Okay, Well,

[Eric Bell]: Cause that that’s such a big piece of my. um,

[Eric Bell]: um,

[Eric Bell]: really, I mean it’s

[Eric Bell]: part.

[Eric Bell]: it’s um,

[Eric Bell]: you know it’s not a corporate job, you know. I, it’s building something that I

[Eric Bell]: wanted to do and I’m doing it and making a living at.

[Nick McGowan]: let’s take a little bit of a step back real quick so I can

[Eric Bell]: Yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: actually edit this the right way.

[Eric Bell]: okay,

[Nick McGowan]: Um, so I’ll do a three, two one and kick in So

[Nick McGowan]: three two one? Well, we’ve gone through a lot of stuff. We’ve un pothead a

[Nick McGowan]: lot. Uh, I know your business is really important to you, and I know that, Um,

[Nick McGowan]: how you

[Nick McGowan]: move throughout the world is important to you, but it really works

[Nick McGowan]: together. So, is there anything else you want to touch on specifically about

[Nick McGowan]: your business or just your mindset in general when it comes to that,

[Eric Bell]: well, I know we talked about earlier. Um,

[Eric Bell]: you know the whole aspect of

[Eric Bell]: doing what you love or creating that, um, uh, business out of your side hustle.

[Eric Bell]: you know

[Eric Bell]: you, you put it, Um,

[Eric Bell]: and

[Eric Bell]: I, I’m a perfect example of being someone who did that and is able to make a living

[Eric Bell]: of out of it

[Eric Bell]: And I absolutely love what I do. it’s absolutely been amazing and the pandemic

[Eric Bell]: has actually done really good things for my business. Excuse me,

[Eric Bell]: Um,

[Eric Bell]: I can get lost in it. Sometimes you know, ’cause I love to do it so much, and

[Eric Bell]: and I do have to be careful there. Um,

[Eric Bell]: but it’s

[Eric Bell]: I didn’t realize how much work

[Eric Bell]: something you love would be once you become successful at it,

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: you know, And and it is work you know. I do. I do have to set those goals. I say my

[Eric Bell]: hours are nine to seven, you know, and that’s that those are my hours, Uh, six

[Eric Bell]: days a week, but I, I stay true to those hours like I won’t come into my office til,

[Eric Bell]: nine o’clock Sometimes I get in early eight forty-five, but I don’t come in until

[Eric Bell]: those types of hours. Um. and if I have to leave, that’s fine too. Uh, but I set those

[Eric Bell]: hours for myself. you know, A. And so I do have some sort of structure just like

[Eric Bell]: a. A regular job would be Um,

[Eric Bell]: with the pandemic, You know, you know, before I was all over the place, I was driving

[Eric Bell]: all over southeastern Pennsylvania, looking at all kinds of different cars, driving

[Eric Bell]: all kinds of different cars. And the pandemic, I went from driving thirty thousand

[Eric Bell]: miles a year to seven thousand miles a year. you know. So so it’s different.

[Eric Bell]: It’s learning a whole different way of doing what I do, and that’s been interesting

[Eric Bell]: too. uh, and as I want to grow,

[Eric Bell]: Uh, you have to be. but at least I have to be willing to say. Okay. The way I was

[Eric Bell]: doing things isn’t necessarily the way it can always be. so I was able to adapt and

[Eric Bell]: change quickly on the fly. Uh, and that actually helped my business quite a bit,

[Eric Bell]: Um, so anybody can. Actually, I, I, I believe wholeheartedly anybody can actually make

[Eric Bell]: their side wholesale into a business, but it does take a lot of

[Eric Bell]: um,

[Eric Bell]: uh, a lot of work. Uh,

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: a lot of what’s the word I’m looking for?

[Eric Bell]: Um,

[Eric Bell]: Go draw a blank. I’m sorry,

[Nick McGowan]: To get a dedication.

[Eric Bell]: Um, dedication. look at that. we came out at the same time. uh, uh, And and

[Eric Bell]: know that and no, nobody told me this is, uh, you know, once your

[Eric Bell]: love of a side hustle becomes work, it is work. You know it’s not always going to be

[Eric Bell]: fun and games every day. Um, but I still think about it and I go. Would I ever want to

[Eric Bell]: go back to the corporate world and make a steady paycheck and have health insurance

[Eric Bell]: and all that stuff. And I’m like absolutely not when I start thinking about it, the

[Eric Bell]: the comfort of a steady paycheck, but the, the, um.

[Eric Bell]: the, um. You know, being able to just do whatever I want to do at any given time, I

[Eric Bell]: mean, if I want to ask myself off, I give myself off. you know, uh, if I don’t want to

[Eric Bell]: work with somebody, I don’t work with them. you know it. It’s just that simple. Uh,

[Eric Bell]: so I really enjoy my, um,

[Eric Bell]: my work is the way it is and I really really enjoy helping people.

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm,

[Eric Bell]: You know. that’s the big thing is, I love cars. I absolutely love being in in

[Eric Bell]: all kinds of cars. Be it the cheapest car you can find to the most expensive car?

[Eric Bell]: want to know all of it, but

[Eric Bell]: it’s that

[Eric Bell]: interaction I have with my clients and when I see them

[Eric Bell]: a see when they get to where they want to be and especially when they get to

[Eric Bell]: something that they didn’t know they could have, or the amount of money they could

[Eric Bell]: save, or the amount of money they could get, or the um, the extras they could, or

[Eric Bell]: whatever it is Whenever we put the whole puzzle together and see

[Eric Bell]: that what gives joy?

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, man, I remember when, Uh, when I bought a car with you, That whole

[Nick McGowan]: the experience was incredible and honestly relatively cheap. Because I remember

[Nick McGowan]: paying you hundreds of dollars to be able to help, and at first I was like,

[Nick McGowan]: Hm. I’m going to pay a guy hundreds of dollars. A friend of mine, but I’m going

[Nick McGowan]: to trust them to help me with this, But you ended up saving us a couple of grand.

[Nick McGowan]: We got a hell of a deal. We got a great car and then when we moved

[Nick McGowan]: sold it to you.

[Eric Bell]: I bought it.

[Eric Bell]: I drove that car for awhile. That car was a fun car. Uh,

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Eric Bell]: my wife

[Eric Bell]: too. Yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: I know, man, I want an infinity again. I’ve got an

[Eric Bell]: yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: Audi now, but I think I’ll go back to an infinity at some point, so um,

[Eric Bell]: I’ve actually looked for a g. twenty five hard to find.

[Nick McGowan]: yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: that was. Uh, that was a cool one and that was such a great deal that we got.

[Nick McGowan]: and I love that

[Eric Bell]: Yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: you have that passion to be able to help people. and let’s make this

[Nick McGowan]: clear. it’s about fulfillment. It’s not about

[Eric Bell]: yeah, yeah.

[Nick McGowan]: your job or your business or your side hustle, or anything of the sort. Even

[Nick McGowan]: the word hustle, Not a big fan of the hustle word.

[Eric Bell]: yeah.

[Nick McGowan]: Uh, it’s an easy thing for people to understand. Yeah, side hustle, but we’re

[Nick McGowan]: not talking about hustling, we’re talking about being fulfilled and you can

[Eric Bell]: right.

[Nick McGowan]: easily be fulfilled. And the thing that’s fulfilling and you’ve still got to be

[Nick McGowan]: balanced. I mean God, there are times where I I look. I’m editing a an episode

[Nick McGowan]: or I’m working on something that I really enjoy and it’ll be two thirty three

[Nick McGowan]: o’clock in the morning. like yo, dude, you should have been in bed a couple

[Nick McGowan]: of hours ago, you know, but you can get into that and then it’s finding the

[Nick McGowan]: balance and setting yourself up. So it’s all about the fulfillment and what

[Nick McGowan]: you find that actually keeps you fulfilled. But I think we also got to be

[Nick McGowan]: mindful if you’re at a job right now and you hate it. It may not be that it’s

[Nick McGowan]: not fulfilling, but it may because of your mindset and what you’re looking at

[Nick McGowan]: with that. So

[Eric Bell]: yeah.

[Nick McGowan]: I know that you go through tough times at different points and that you have

[Nick McGowan]: to be mindful of yourself as you go through it, Man. I’m proud of the work

[Nick McGowan]: that you’ve put in and all the stuff that you’ve done

[Eric Bell]: you have done. I

[Nick McGowan]: and I really appreciate being on the show with us today.

[Eric Bell]: show with us today.

[Nick McGowan]: Can you tell us where we can find you and where people can find you online?

[Eric Bell]: Yeah, uh, anyways,

[Eric Bell]: and uh, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, uh, I have a social media marketing company that

[Eric Bell]: does all that for me, but I am available on that at any time. Um. Facebook is the big

[Eric Bell]: one. I get more interactions with Facebook because my typical clientele is going

[Eric Bell]: to be my age-similar, and that seems to be the big Facebook Thing is what, Thirty-five

[Eric Bell]: plus,

[Eric Bell]: Um, but I, T. I’m trying to learn all the other things like the Twitters and the

[Eric Bell]: Instagram sound old. now, right, I’m going to learn that Twitters.

[Nick McGowan]: the

[Nick McGowan]: twitters and tweeters,

[Eric Bell]: I was being.

[Eric Bell]: I was being funny when I said that, but

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, I understand

[Eric Bell]: I, I did that on purpose, but

[Nick McGowan]: that’s why we got to have fun

[Eric Bell]: uh

[Nick McGowan]: with it.

[Eric Bell]: yeah, it’s all Phoenix prepared. Uh, I, I was able to nail down all those uh,

[Eric Bell]: um,

[Eric Bell]: uh,

[Eric Bell]: names. I don’t know what you call them screen names.

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, the handle screens. All that.

[Eric Bell]: Oh, that’s that’s dated handles. Yes,

[Nick McGowan]: Yes, Well, so you’

[Eric Bell]: I am dating myself again.

[Nick McGowan]: mentioned earlier. Yeah, I’m going to cut out most of that out. Um,

[Nick McGowan]: you, You’d mentioned earlier that there was an interesting uh

[Eric Bell]: Interesting.

[Nick McGowan]: the story behind the Phoenix preferred name. Can you give us a quick version of

[Nick McGowan]: that?

[Eric Bell]: Oh yes, yes, yes, um,

[Eric Bell]: so you know I have. I have a tattoo, Uh, of the Phoenix on my

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm?

[Eric Bell]: my, my arm. Um, so being from Texas, you know, I not necessarily happy with the way

[Eric Bell]: the state is going right now, but I’m always going to be a Texan at heart, So I

[Eric Bell]: have

[Eric Bell]: a firebird that’s coming out of the act Ashes. So it’s it going in the middle of

[Eric Bell]: rebirth, carrying the Tex Ag. And that was when I was going through my divorce and

[Eric Bell]: starting my company.

[Eric Bell]: Um, I knew I was going through a metamorphosis in my life. It was one of those. Okay,

[Eric Bell]: This is the way I was and this is going to lead to something else. And then I didn’t

[Eric Bell]: know what quite that something else was. but I knew I wanted to represent it. somehow.

[Eric Bell]: Um, so the Phoenix on my arm, Phoenix, and just the preferred went with it really

[Eric Bell]: well, Uh, so Phoenix preferred your automotive specialist, Uh, came out of that. So I

[Eric Bell]: had that tattooed on my arm and I think it’s on this side. Actually,

[Eric Bell]: um,

[Eric Bell]: so yeah, that’s the

[Eric Bell]: coming into a whole Norther metamorphosis of life.

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, that’s good

[Eric Bell]: Yeah, that’s good.

[Nick McGowan]: stuff, man, I think there are a lot of people that

[Eric Bell]: a lot of

[Nick McGowan]: are sort of like Phoenix, In

[Eric Bell]: Phoenix.

[Nick McGowan]: some certain ways coming out

[Eric Bell]: Yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: of the pandemic trying to figure their stuff out. figure

[Eric Bell]: stuff. figure out what’s going on

[Nick McGowan]: out what’s going on in their head, So again, I really

[Eric Bell]: so

[Nick McGowan]: appreciate being on with us today.

[Eric Bell]: I appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely. thank you for having me.

[Nick McGowan]: it’s been a pleasure.

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