How To Break The Chains of Co-Dependency And Move Forward After Traumatic Experiences – Ep.055 – Bianca Thomas

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Episode summary:​ Bianca Thomas had always struggled with codependency. She struggled with self-worth, self-love, and self-identity. She would continuously find herself getting into abusive relationships.

Luckily, she found a mentor at the gym who started to help her through her codependent behaviors. Then she met a woman and got into a relationship and quickly started reverting back to her old self. She was losing friends, her family kicked her out, and her mentor no longer wanted to work with her.

When they broke up, it was just what Bianca needed to get her life straightened out. Her parents offered her to come back home but Bianca felt she really needed to be on her own and overcome her codependency. She lived in her car and worked her way to getting her own apartment and living on her own.

Once you start healing and progress to overcoming codependency, you cannot go back. Bianco continued to work on overcoming her codependency.

Guest Name & Bio: Bianca is the co-founder, CFO, and COO of Evolve Ventures Technologies, and the host of the Evolve Ventures Podcast, a global podcast reached in over 50 countries; she is a cognitive behavioral therapist and success coach who helps people break the patterns and beliefs holding them back from optimizing their life and reaching their fullest.

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[Nick McGowan]: Hey Bianca. Welcome to the show are you doing?

[Bianca Thomas]: I am great thanks for having me

[Nick McGowan]: I’m excited you’re here we had a quick conversation a couple of months ago kind of a prep call leading up to the show and I have to be honest, it feels like that was almost a year ago

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: it was a long time ago but

[Bianca Thomas]: it was

[Nick McGowan]: think it was just

[Bianca Thomas]: long

[Nick McGowan]: a few

[Bianca Thomas]: time

[Nick McGowan]: months

[Bianca Thomas]: ago

[Nick McGowan]: ago

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: yeah and we basically just called

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: it out as soon as we got

back on the phone like good to see

[Nick McGowan]: again when

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: was the last time we talked

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: my god so

[Bianca Thomas]: it’s been

[Nick McGowan]: appreciate

[Bianca Thomas]: a minute

[Nick McGowan]: that you’re here yeah i think it’s

timely though because i think at that point

[Nick McGowan]: we were talking about

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: maybe doing this episode at a different

time like earlier in the summer or something

[Bianca Thomas]: m

[Nick McGowan]: but today on linked on you shared

about this being the one-year anniversary

[Bianca Thomas]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: of things now i’m jumping a little

ahead but we’re going to get to that

[Nick McGowan]: in a minute so

[Bianca Thomas]: beautiful

[Nick McGowan]: want to tell us what you do

for a living and give us one thing

[Nick McGowan]: that most people don’t know about you

that’s maybe

[Bianca Thomas]: m

[Nick McGowan]: little at or bizarre

[Bianca Thomas]: so what i do for living is

i’m a clinical

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: mental health councillor so i work with

people um struggling with mental health issues and

[Bianca Thomas]: then i also am the co founder

c f o and c o o

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: of all ventures technologies um it’s a

company that a friend of mine developed a

[Bianca Thomas]: few years ago and it’s been booming

it’s been incredible a random weird thing that

[Bianca Thomas]: most people would not know about me

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Bianca Thomas]: i don’t know if i would call

this weird but a lot of people don’t

[Bianca Thomas]: know that i actually used to be

a competitive power lifter

[Nick McGowan]: wow it’s pretty awesome

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: so how did

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: you get into that and are you


[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: said you used to so no longer

doing that

[Bianca Thomas]: i am no longer doing that i

hurt my back when i was eighteen i

[Bianca Thomas]: was a absolute douche bag at that


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: and i decided i wanted

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: to an ego lift and i herneated

a disk and it has been a struggle

[Bianca Thomas]: bus and a half ever since then


[Nick McGowan]: fool

[Bianca Thomas]: i cannot lift like that any more

[Nick McGowan]: man that’s got to be tough especially

at eighteen damn

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah it sucked

[Nick McGowan]: so have you had to get surgery

or you

[Bianca Thomas]: thankfully

[Nick McGowan]: just mindful you’re

[Bianca Thomas]: no

[Nick McGowan]: back now

[Bianca Thomas]: um yeah i’ve had to go to

physical therapy a few times i actually was

[Bianca Thomas]: at the doctor’s yesterday i have to

get injections put into my spine so that

[Bianca Thomas]: should be fun but

[Nick McGowan]: good luck

[Bianca Thomas]: i can walk so i’m grateful

[Nick McGowan]: yeah and that’s got to be kind

of tough so you were doing that i

[Nick McGowan]: guess in high school then

[Bianca Thomas]: i was doing it not for my

high school my high school didn’t have a

[Bianca Thomas]: competitive power lifting team they do now

i actually used to be the coach of

[Bianca Thomas]: my high schools team there’s

[Nick McGowan]: nice

[Bianca Thomas]: a fun thing about me

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: no one would know

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: um

[Nick McGowan]: that’s pretty cool

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah but i used to do it

independently in massachusetts where i’m from

[Nick McGowan]: okay so you said that you were

in massachusetts but where are you at now

[Nick McGowan]: you east coast west coast where you

live in these days

[Bianca Thomas]: no i still live in mass

[Nick McGowan]: okay got

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: a gotha

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: well as an eagle’s fan i’ll forgive

you for you know

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: patriots and what not so realistically though


[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: you to go through what you went

through when you were in high school and

[Nick McGowan]: at eighteen having that issue happened

[Bianca Thomas]: m

[Nick McGowan]: that must have been pretty difficult because

[Bianca Thomas]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: if you were planning on doing

[Bianca Thomas]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: that i assume that you were planning

on doing that for quite some time and

[Nick McGowan]: then boom

[Bianca Thomas]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: you’re not able to do it any

more so how did you manage your mindset

[Nick McGowan]: through that

[Bianca Thomas]: in all honesty that wasn’t

[Nick McGowan]: kay

[Bianca Thomas]: the most difficult thing going on in

my life at that time

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Bianca Thomas]: so i had been introduced into power

lifting from the person that i was dating

[Bianca Thomas]: at time and i actually started dating

that person um a week after we had

[Bianca Thomas]: met when i was sixteen and that

same week after this person told me that

[Bianca Thomas]: he loved me after having only known

me for six days um which leads you

[Bianca Thomas]: to my poor decision making paradime back

at that time

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: m it was a incredibly abusive relationship

you know mentally

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: emotionally sexually um i almost moved to

like colorado

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: because he thought he was going to

be in the olympics for wrestling and it

[Bianca Thomas]: was just a really a really dark

time in my life it was really scary

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: you know and i i know the

reason i had gotten into it was because

[Bianca Thomas]: i grew up as a kid feeling

incredibly unlovable and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: incredibly

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: unworthy you know my i love my

parents to death they did their best but

[Bianca Thomas]: i just i never felt good and

i was always the black sheep i had

[Bianca Thomas]: a lot of mental health challenges as

a kid

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: i was the problematic middle child and

it caused a lot

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Bianca Thomas]: of chaos

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: and it also caused me to have

a lot of you know our turmoil so

[Bianca Thomas]: by

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Bianca Thomas]: the time i’m sixteen and i’m trying

to find myself and trying to you know

[Bianca Thomas]: figure out my place in the world

this person comes into my life and i

[Bianca Thomas]: like oh my god someone’s giving me

attention what

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: a lot of people do when they

have severe low self worth and low self

[Bianca Thomas]: esteem so i end up dating this

person and it ended up being an abusive

[Bianca Thomas]: lationship and

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Bianca Thomas]: it took me four

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: years but i was eventually able to

get out of it but you know unfortunately

[Bianca Thomas]: the pattern only continued from that point

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: and the cycle only started from that

point you know i had

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Bianca Thomas]: a series of

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: really toxic relationships after that thankfully it

was never to the point where it was

[Bianca Thomas]: abusive like that again but i mean

mentally emotionally psychologically they were just all very

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah very toxic and just very painful

and i was in a period

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: of my life where i just genuinely

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: had no idea who i was i

didn’t know my place in the world i

[Bianca Thomas]: didn’t know what i wanted to do

i didn’t know where i fit in or

[Bianca Thomas]: where i was supposed to go and

i just kept getting caught up in these

[Bianca Thomas]: really vicious cycles and at that point

i started understanding my sexuality and started understanding

[Bianca Thomas]: like oh i think i’m bi sexual

like i’m i’m fine myself being attracted to

[Bianca Thomas]: girls

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: like what is going on i have

a middle eastern family like i can’t be

[Bianca Thomas]: gay i can’t

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: experience this like

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: what’s going to happen to me if

they find out so i just kept going

[Bianca Thomas]: back and forth in all of these

places and you know thankfully i don’t know

[Bianca Thomas]: if it was god i don’t know

if it was grace i don’t know if

[Bianca Thomas]: it was the universe whatever whatever it

was but because of me always having been

[Bianca Thomas]: athletic and doing power lifting and into

personal development i actually met my mentor at

[Bianca Thomas]: the gym and he introduced me to

his business partner and meeting them it completely

[Bianca Thomas]: changed my life you know they were


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: first two people who ever believed in

me who ever saw me whoever had an

[Bianca Thomas]: understanding of like now you actually do

matter there are these amazing things about you

[Bianca Thomas]: and if you you know if you

just learn personal development if you work on

[Bianca Thomas]: all of these things if you do

this you know you could be extraordinary and

[Bianca Thomas]: i did and doing that got me

to meet my business partner and we were

[Bianca Thomas]: able to start you know building our

business and growing and do all of these

[Bianca Thomas]: incredible things but i had never fully

worked on that unlovability component i had never

[Bianca Thomas]: fully worked

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: on that worthiness

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Bianca Thomas]: component so to the story you were

alluding to i end up getting into another

[Bianca Thomas]: is aligned relationship with someone and it

was another it was honestly pretty traumatic it

[Bianca Thomas]: was with a woman and my parents

found out and they didn’t know i was

[Bianca Thomas]: gay so i end up having to

leave home move in with this person after

[Bianca Thomas]: a month of no then because i

had no where to go and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: we ended up being together and i

lost all of my friends almost lost my

[Bianca Thomas]: business my mentors didn’t want anything to

do with me because i was just so

[Bianca Thomas]: i was like reverting to this person

that i thought that i had overcome and

[Bianca Thomas]: what you alluded to a post i

put on instagram today the day we’re recording

[Bianca Thomas]: this is actually a year from the

day that i had left that relationship and

[Bianca Thomas]: had started to be able two completely

turn my life around and you know start

[Bianca Thomas]: to develop into the person that i

am today that i’m just truly so grateful

[Bianca Thomas]: to be and i’m proud of oh

[Nick McGowan]: as it should be there’s a lot

of ship that can happen within a year

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: and there’s a lot that can happen

within an

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: hour a day a week and i

think some people don’t really understand the power

[Nick McGowan]: that they have within themselves once they

start to make changes some people

[Bianca Thomas]: m

[Nick McGowan]: just

[Bianca Thomas]: m

[Nick McGowan]: let years go by and shut i’ll

be honest i was in a marriage for

[Bianca Thomas]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: eight years and several those years i

just kind of allowed things to go by

[Bianca Thomas]: ye

[Nick McGowan]: because i had just given up on

different things and was unsure of how to

[Nick McGowan]: work through it but once you make

that decision

[Bianca Thomas]: m

[Nick McGowan]: to start making changes

[Bianca Thomas]: m

[Nick McGowan]: that

[Bianca Thomas]: m

[Nick McGowan]: that muscle shows itself and you’re able

to start using it using it so here

[Nick McGowan]: we are a year later congrats by

the way nd i’m proud of what

[Bianca Thomas]: thank

[Nick McGowan]: you’ve done

[Bianca Thomas]: you

[Nick McGowan]: so far and i’ve

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: only known you for a little bit

so why give us a little bit of

[Nick McGowan]: little bit of context of the situation

a little deeper than what you had and

[Nick McGowan]: then looking back at it now this

is kind of a live raw moment where

[Nick McGowan]: we get to kind of talk through


[Bianca Thomas]: yah

[Nick McGowan]: it’s been a year it’s been a

fucking year

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: so what does this look like over

the ours of the year and what do

[Nick McGowan]: you see

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: coming up

[Bianca Thomas]: this year has been one of the

most painful but extraordinary years of my life

[Bianca Thomas]: i i was so

[Bianca Thomas]: desperately co dependent i couldn’t be alone

i couldn’t rely on myself i had no

[Bianca Thomas]: sense of self worth no sense of

identity and yeah i didn’t know how to

[Bianca Thomas]: navigate in the world without someone being

there and it was the first time in

[Bianca Thomas]: my life that i had ever finally

been on my own you know because i

[Bianca Thomas]: went from living in my parents house

to moving in with this person and

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Bianca Thomas]: after we broken up you know my

parents were telling me to come back and

[Bianca Thomas]: telling me you know they wanted me

to move home and we could work on

[Bianca Thomas]: things and you know now is the

opportunity and something inside of me just said

[Bianca Thomas]: you know don’t don’t do it you

can’t go from one world back into an

[Bianca Thomas]: old one like this is your opportunity

ye this is your chance to battle all

[Bianca Thomas]: of the ship that got you to

this point that you’re in right now take

[Bianca Thomas]: it and

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Bianca Thomas]: i almost didn’t like i’m not going

to lie i almost moved back to my

[Bianca Thomas]: parents house because it was easier

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: it would have been so easy to

just let someone take care of me again

[Bianca Thomas]: but there was a voice that that

said you’re trying to do incredible things in

[Bianca Thomas]: the world with the business that you’re

doing and the people that you’re helping and

[Bianca Thomas]: everything that you’re doing you can’t back

you have to do this and so i

[Bianca Thomas]: did and so when this person and

i had broken up it was a really

[Bianca Thomas]: bad break up and i actually was

living out of my car for a while

[Bianca Thomas]: you know i was couch hopping on

different people’s couches and a cousin of mine

[Bianca Thomas]: had let me go stay with her

for few days and then i finally was

[Bianca Thomas]: able to get an apartment but i

was sleeping on an air mattress for like

[Bianca Thomas]: a month no furniture having to use

like hot spot from my wife i taking

[Bianca Thomas]: client calls

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: and coaching calls and working from this

apartment kind of still living out of my

[Bianca Thomas]: car for a while and it it

challenged me in ways that i didn’t know

[Bianca Thomas]: was possible like i if you would

have asked me three years ago like what

[Bianca Thomas]: my life would have been like i

never would have a sumed that that’s where

[Bianca Thomas]: i would have gone or that’s something

that i would have had to do especially

[Bianca Thomas]: given the upbringing that i had the

family that i had so i was able

[Bianca Thomas]: to actually move out of that apartment

and move into the one that i’m living

[Bianca Thomas]: in now which has been incredible it’s

actually my old the original mentor this is

[Bianca Thomas]: his old apartment so complete

[Nick McGowan]: nice

[Bianca Thomas]: synqrinicity i spent so much time here

before and now i live here but

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Bianca Thomas]: i was

[Nick McGowan]: cool

[Bianca Thomas]: able to move in here and i

faced some of the darkest days of my

[Bianca Thomas]: life being here it was the first

time i had ever truly been alone you

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: know because i worked from home and

my business is online and i’ve done an

[Bianca Thomas]: exceptional job of being extremely selective of

who i allow into my life so i’m

[Bianca Thomas]: not really going out much i don’t

go to bars i don’t go do all

[Bianca Thomas]: of these things and i intentionally made

sure not to fall into the old pattern

[Bianca Thomas]: again of

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: just seeking pleasure doing these easy things

so i was sitting here in completely empty

[Bianca Thomas]: apartment with just a couple o couches

and a bed and i had to face

[Bianca Thomas]: those parts of me that i had

been running away from for so long and

[Bianca Thomas]: the parts that i actually work on

with clients of mine in the cognitive behavior

[Bianca Thomas]: al therapy and the cognitive behavioral therapy

coaching that i do so challenging limiting beliefs

[Bianca Thomas]: understanding thought process is that we have

understanding social learning theory and how did you

[Bianca Thomas]: develop into the person that you are

now understanding um thought records and how the

[Bianca Thomas]: way that think interact with how you

feel and causes you to do the things

[Bianca Thomas]: that you do so i had to

really look at my life and say how

[Bianca Thomas]: did i get here and really an

lies all of the different all of the

[Bianca Thomas]: different things that i had been running

away from that had gotten me to the

[Bianca Thomas]: place where i was and the past

year has been extraordinary because i was finally

[Bianca Thomas]: able to do that i was able

to see the darkest parts of me to

[Bianca Thomas]: see the parts that i had been

terrified of that kept me making those same

[Bianca Thomas]: mistakes over and over again and heal

them and to do the work that i

[Bianca Thomas]: do now with all of the people

that i do that work with you know

[Bianca Thomas]: it wouldn’t have been possible if i

didn’t do that or running a six person

[Bianca Thomas]: team or having a tech company you

know it’s i wouldn’t have been able to

[Bianca Thomas]: be this person if i didn’t let

myself honestly suffer and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: i know a lot of the new

uh influences and whoever there there’s a lot

[Bianca Thomas]: of them that say no you don’t

need to suffer you don’t need to go

[Bianca Thomas]: through pain it doesn’t have to be

i actually think it’s the exact opposite i

[Bianca Thomas]: think

[Nick McGowan]: agree

[Bianca Thomas]: you have to face your demons you

have to face the darkest parts of you

[Bianca Thomas]: and i think you

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Bianca Thomas]: have to suffer you have to go

through the pain because otherwise how do you

[Bianca Thomas]: learn now don’t sit in it

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: don’t become a victim don’t allow the

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: pain to start directing beliefs and start

causing you to have you know mal adaptive

[Bianca Thomas]: thinking processes but learn from it sit

in it try to recognize where is your

[Bianca Thomas]: mind taking you because if you can


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: all of those things if you can

endure the suffering long enough there’s all lessons

[Bianca Thomas]: at the end of it that you

can start to work towards and that’s exactly

[Bianca Thomas]: what i did i finally got quiet

and i sat and i listened and i

[Bianca Thomas]: was

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Bianca Thomas]: able to learn that my entire sense

of worth my entire sense of self my

[Bianca Thomas]: entire sense of love ability came from

somebody else telling me that i was enough

[Bianca Thomas]: from somebody else telling me that i

was deserving of being loved and it was

[Bianca Thomas]: always people who were battling those demons


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Bianca Thomas]: because

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Bianca Thomas]: like attract like

[Nick McGowan]: m yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: i

[Nick McGowan]: miserable

[Bianca Thomas]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: people like miserable company

[Bianca Thomas]: ye

[Nick McGowan]: and they pull those

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: people in it’s a

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: it’s an interesting

[Bianca Thomas]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: and powerful thing when you’re in a

spot where you’re all by you’re fucking self

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: the only person you can deal with

is you because that’s the person you have

[Nick McGowan]: to deal with

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: and i think a lot of people

are afraid to step into that

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: s also bullshit that they feed themselves

that we all do i’ve done it you’ve

[Nick McGowan]: done it everybody that’s listen to the

show has done it and it’s a matter

[Nick McGowan]: of if you continue to do it

if you continue to feed yourself to bullshit

[Nick McGowan]: because have conversations with people were like

you got t get real you ot to

[Nick McGowan]: be aware of what’s going on

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: at the wife the kids this that

the job the blah blah like whatever they

[Nick McGowan]: want to put in front of them

because they’re fucking fraid of it but when

[Nick McGowan]: you’re there and you’re working through it

think back to that think back to that

[Nick McGowan]: moment without living in the moment let’s

watch the movie don’t be in the movie

[Nick McGowan]: but thinking back

[Bianca Thomas]: m

[Nick McGowan]: to that moment it’s almost like a

gym where you’re in it and you’re actively

[Nick McGowan]: working and you’re sweating your ass off

i’ve had sessions doing

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: that where i’m fucking dripping because the

emotions are coming out all the stuff that’s

[Nick McGowan]: coming out of it so for somebody

that’s in that spot that knows that they

[Nick McGowan]: need to do it and they may

be calling us bullshit right now you you

[Nick McGowan]: know you need to do it

[Bianca Thomas]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: so what sort of advice would you

give that person that’s sitting there going i

[Nick McGowan]: don’t know because of whatever b s

how did you get yourself to that spot

[Nick McGowan]: where you’re like i have to spend

the they do this and get away from

[Nick McGowan]: the excuses

[Bianca Thomas]: ah in all honesty it took me

having to suffer the same mistake over and

[Bianca Thomas]: over again

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: i’ve only shared this on one other

show but

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Bianca Thomas]: the reason i ended up leaving that

relationship was after a really really horrible fight

[Bianca Thomas]: that this person and i had had

where she didn’t like the people in my

[Bianca Thomas]: life didn’t like my mentors didn’t like

all of these people and we had gotten

[Bianca Thomas]: into an argument about one of my

mentors and it had gotten so escaladed that

[Bianca Thomas]: i was trying to get into the

shower and i had a towel over me

[Bianca Thomas]: and i ended up going next to

the toilet and just crunching over trying to

[Bianca Thomas]: like hide i felt like so childish


[Nick McGowan]: wow

[Bianca Thomas]: i was crunched over and i was

screaming get away from me get away from

[Bianca Thomas]: me get away from me leave me

alone and our dog was downstairs and the

[Bianca Thomas]: dog is barking and i’m screaming crying

and i’m like please just leave me alone

[Bianca Thomas]: like i can’t do this any more

get out of my face and i don’t

[Bianca Thomas]: think i have ever been that triggered

like i don’t think i’ve been that

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: triggered since i was a kid you

know when i was going through a lot

[Bianca Thomas]: of men health challenges and you know

being in a really disfunctional family but it

[Bianca Thomas]: took that

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: it took me seeing myself in that

moment and being like how the fuck did

[Bianca Thomas]: i let myself get here

[Nick McGowan]: m yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: how the fuck did i let myself

do this again we got a

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: dog together and i knew it was

a terrible idea but i was so trying

[Bianca Thomas]: to save it that i’m like well

we need to get a shared thing together

[Bianca Thomas]: and we need to make it happy


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: we ned to do this and we

need to do that like how many people

[Bianca Thomas]: have had a baby together because their

marriage was failing and they’re like well we

[Bianca Thomas]: need to do something

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: to salvage it or you know whatever

it might end up being but as in

[Bianca Thomas]: that moment and i’m like oh my

god i can’t do this i can’t do

[Bianca Thomas]: this any more

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: so in all honesty it took me

having to go

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: there finally be like you can never

let this happen again

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Bianca Thomas]: and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: you know thankfully i got the lesson

and there have been so many moments sitting

[Bianca Thomas]: here in this apartment bawling eyes out

yeah just so angry at myself and blaming

[Bianca Thomas]: myself and trying to blame this other

person which never does anything because i’m the

[Bianca Thomas]: one that entered the relationship it’s like

you get to a point where you stop

[Bianca Thomas]: blaming everyone else and you finally look

in that mirror

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Bianca Thomas]: and you realize you know it’s your

fault that you’re here and now it’s your

[Bianca Thomas]: responsibility to fix it and now i

work as a mental health councilor right so

[Bianca Thomas]: i work with a lot of trauma

victims and a lot of people who have

[Bianca Thomas]: endured honestly the most horrific stories i’ve

ever heard this is not to say that

[Bianca Thomas]: you know people who have truly been

dramatized and who have experienced dramatic events like

[Bianca Thomas]: it’s your fault that you got there

that’s not what i’m saying at all but

[Bianca Thomas]: i know for me at one hundred

per cent was my fault because i

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Bianca Thomas]: knew i shouldn’t have entered the relationship

and i got into it anyways and every

[Bianca Thomas]: other relationship i knew it was wrong

yeah to your point there was something inside

[Bianca Thomas]: of me that just like i couldn’t

i couldn’t stop myself it’s like the excuses

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: were there no but they’re a good

person no but you know this time it

[Bianca Thomas]: will be different no but no but

whatever and we have these excuses

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: as protective mechanisms we’re trying to gain

some sort of safety some sort of security

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: and it’s

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: actually adaptive it’s functional for human beings

to go into what they know it’s it’s

[Bianca Thomas]: a protective mechanism we we continue the

patterns that we know because they keep us

[Bianca Thomas]: safe but the challenge is we do

it so well that it actually becomes a

[Bianca Thomas]: detriment

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: so we get

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Bianca Thomas]: into a familiar type of relationship because

we know what it’s going to be like

[Bianca Thomas]: but we also know how terrible it’s

going to be too but

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Bianca Thomas]: the devil you know is better than

the one that you

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Bianca Thomas]: don’t so let me at least just

do this and it will be fine and

[Bianca Thomas]: i’ll deal with it

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: for a lot of people the idea

of change the idea of growth the idea

[Bianca Thomas]: of evolution which is actually what our

podcast and what our business is called it’s

[Bianca Thomas]: called evolved shares the concept of changing

is terrifying because it’s unfamiliar because it’s unknown

[Bianca Thomas]: because as human beings one of our

core fundamental needs is certainty and when we

[Bianca Thomas]: are not

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: certain of what’s going to happen can’t

do it we won’t jump into it unless

[Bianca Thomas]: the pain is great enough and

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Bianca Thomas]: that’s what it took for me it

took my paradyme and my entire world being

[Bianca Thomas]: shaken for me to finally realize i

can’t do this any more and i can’t

[Bianca Thomas]: work with people ethically and keep making

these stupid ass mistakes but trying to tell

[Bianca Thomas]: someone else to change their life

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: i had a lot of clients who

knew that i was doing that and they

[Bianca Thomas]: quit and i

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: ended up talking to them afterwards

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: and i apologized and i said you

know i am so sorry i am so

[Bianca Thomas]: sorry i was so wrong i should

not have been coaching you and i was

[Bianca Thomas]: in that place and now thankfully because

of the experience that i’ve gone through and

[Bianca Thomas]: all of the work that i do

in all of the education i’m a i’m

[Bianca Thomas]: an avid learner like you can see

all the books behind me that’s not even

[Bianca Thomas]: a fraction of the books

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: that i have i’m always learning and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: so i’m able to really help the

people that i work with you know i’ve

[Bianca Thomas]: worked with some of the most insane

stories you’ll have ever heard and i know

[Bianca Thomas]: it’s because i was able to go

into the darkest places within myself and heal

[Bianca Thomas]: those and understand them and learn them


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: work through so i know i can

help other people do the same

[Nick McGowan]: yeah and the anchors are a big

thing and people don’t really think about those

[Nick McGowan]: consciously we all don’t naturally just think

about that but for you to have that

[Nick McGowan]: negative anchor for you to now look

[Bianca Thomas]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: back at and go well fuck

[Bianca Thomas]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: that’s never going to happen again because

that was

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: extremely painful and it goes into what

you were talking about with suffering and i’m

[Nick McGowan]: right there with you there’s the influences

and the people of the world you don’t

[Bianca Thomas]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: have to suffer fuck that one hundred


[Bianca Thomas]: m

[Nick McGowan]: every

[Bianca Thomas]: m

[Nick McGowan]: single person is going to suffer in

some sort of

[Bianca Thomas]: m yeah

[Nick McGowan]: way and yes

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: i agree with them to an extent

you don’t have to live in the suffering

[Bianca Thomas]: yes

[Nick McGowan]: but you do have to be aware

of it now a chip i think one

[Nick McGowan]: of the one of the most life

changing books i’ve ever read in my entire

[Nick McGowan]: life is man’s search for meaning from


[Bianca Thomas]: that book

[Nick McGowan]: franke

[Bianca Thomas]: is phenomenal

[Nick McGowan]: it’s all

[Bianca Thomas]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: about meaning and suffering all of it

[Bianca Thomas]: i

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Bianca Thomas]: am

[Nick McGowan]: having that meaning is huge

[Bianca Thomas]: i am notorious for me and my

business partner we actually rumble on this idea

[Bianca Thomas]: a lot but i am an avid

believer that things do not happen for a

[Bianca Thomas]: reason i hate that quote i really

do because you can’t have heard the stories

[Bianca Thomas]: that i have heard of little girls

and their dads coming into their room

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Bianca Thomas]: and doing things them or you know

just the horrific stories that i have heard

[Bianca Thomas]: you cannot say that it happened for

a reason there is no reason why happened

[Bianca Thomas]: but what i tell all of my

clients is you have the choice and the

[Bianca Thomas]: opportunity right now to make a greater

meaning from what happened d

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Bianca Thomas]: what happened to you is not fair

what happened to you was terrible that should

[Bianca Thomas]: not happen to anybody but what are

we going to do now what is the

[Bianca Thomas]: meaning

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: that that is going to have for

our life and that actually is exactly what

[Bianca Thomas]: cognitive behavioral therapy does so the type

of therapy that i’m specialized in it looks

[Bianca Thomas]: at the beliefs that we develop over

our life span from our environment from the

[Bianca Thomas]: situations we experienced from the people that

were around and it looks at the beliefs

[Bianca Thomas]: that we develop about ourselves and then

how we engage in the world based on

[Bianca Thomas]: those beliefs struck sure and so what

c b t does is it helps to

[Bianca Thomas]: change the beliefs it helps to re

structure and remodel and remake the belief by

[Bianca Thomas]: you no help to just change the

style of thinking or change the behaviors or

[Bianca Thomas]: to like go out and seek new

experiences which is all three exactly what i

[Bianca Thomas]: did for myself but so it really

looks at what is the meaning that you

[Bianca Thomas]: are giving to the situations that you

are in and what are you doing about

[Bianca Thomas]: them because most of us don’t realize

that are interpreting almost everything around us is

[Bianca Thomas]: negative and we’re acting on that we’re

acting on these unconscious patterns and so when

[Bianca Thomas]: you take a meaning of i went

through a break up again it means i’m

[Bianca Thomas]: worthless and we don’t know we’re saying

this to ourselves but we are and you

[Bianca Thomas]: can

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Bianca Thomas]: tell by your behavior so when everything

goes through that lens of i’m not good

[Bianca Thomas]: enough i’m not lovable i’m not worth

while the future is hopeless which was exactly

[Bianca Thomas]: what i went through you’re going to

live a terrible life and i’m the proof

[Bianca Thomas]: i did

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: it wasn’t until i started changing the

meaning that i was giving to all of

[Bianca Thomas]: these things and changing the meanings that

i gave to myself that i was able

[Bianca Thomas]: to break free from all of those

things but to your original point man’s search

[Bianca Thomas]: for meaning you create the meaning for

your life it

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Bianca Thomas]: is not something that just happens yes

life and and of itself does happen ship

[Bianca Thomas]: happen what are you going to do

about it we all have the choice we

[Bianca Thomas]: have the opportunity to make a choice

about what happens what we do about it

[Bianca Thomas]: what it means about us in our

future and this is not to say changing

[Bianca Thomas]: these is easy because it’s not when

you’ve lived

[Nick McGowan]: a

[Bianca Thomas]: with a fundamental belief that you are

not good enough for ten twenty thirty forty

[Bianca Thomas]: fifty years it’s not going to change

a night and you’re not going to go

[Bianca Thomas]: from one end of the extreme to

the other in a mile a second but

[Bianca Thomas]: if you

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Bianca Thomas]: do the work it will start to

change and i i am the proof i

[Bianca Thomas]: was a hopeless wreck i was a

wreck i was suicidal i was self harming

[Bianca Thomas]: i kept getting into these horrible situations

you know yeah if you saw me as

[Bianca Thomas]: a kid you never would have believed

that i would be the person that i

[Bianca Thomas]: am today but i was able to

and it all came from little by little

[Bianca Thomas]: over time making

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: new things happen for me making new

ice is slowly and surely getting myself out

[Bianca Thomas]: there doing exposure therapy forcing myself into

situations and learning how to be comfortable with

[Bianca Thomas]: it learning how to in front of

a camera like this one of my mentors

[Bianca Thomas]: had me record a video every single

day and send it to him so i

[Bianca Thomas]: could get comfortable speaking and being in

front of a camera we all have the

[Bianca Thomas]: capability of doing it the difference is

will you and what is it going to

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Bianca Thomas]: take for you to finally do that

for me it took me needing to be

[Bianca Thomas]: curled next to a toilet hysterically crying

and shaking

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Bianca Thomas]: for me to finally change and i

hope none of you have to go through

[Bianca Thomas]: that but if you do let that

be the final straw

[Nick McGowan]: that’s a good point i don’t think

that people have to go through things but

[Nick McGowan]: at the same time think there are

a lot of people that they need to

[Nick McGowan]: feel through

[Bianca Thomas]: m

[Nick McGowan]: things they need to go through situations

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: and it’s interesting i was on a

podcast recently about dad’s i’m not a father

[Nick McGowan]: but i’ve got one

[Bianca Thomas]: m

[Nick McGowan]: and i was talking

[Bianca Thomas]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: about my relationship with him my relationship

my grandfather how different things have come up

[Nick McGowan]: and how there’s just different ways that

they’ve passed along information to each other and

[Nick McGowan]: then it gets

[Bianca Thomas]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: to you and it’s up to you

to either break the chain or continue to

[Nick McGowan]: move forward with it and you don’t

have to subscribe to everything that’s just given

[Nick McGowan]: to you but it’s a matter of

doing something with it now one of the

[Nick McGowan]: things that i love in this entire

world is technology but one of the things

[Nick McGowan]: that i have grown to kind of

hate certain ways is technology because we get

[Nick McGowan]: so we want things instantly we want

everything right fucking now and i know that

[Nick McGowan]: i do at different times but this

sort of

[Bianca Thomas]: m

[Nick McGowan]: work isn’t a right now and i

think that holds some people back where they’re

[Nick McGowan]: like well fuit i can hop on

an instagram or tik tok and get dope

[Nick McGowan]: after dopamen after dopeameand

[Bianca Thomas]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: then i can fast food and ice

cream and look i’m fucking happy but you’re

[Nick McGowan]: not it’s just one big bandage on

another bandage on another bandage this work takes

[Nick McGowan]: time to be able to do it

me of those people have to go through

[Nick McGowan]: ship to be able to beat tough

and go all right i know that this

[Nick McGowan]: really sucked and they need to move

through it what sort of advice would you

[Nick McGowan]: give to somebody that’s on their path

towards self mastery and trying to make those

[Nick McGowan]: changes but just not able to get

into that space to start the work

[Bianca Thomas]: oh have the courage to be vulnerable

enough to look at the darkest parts of

[Bianca Thomas]: you and i use the word vulnerable

very intentionally a lot of us think it’s

[Bianca Thomas]: a matter of just grit and tough

it out and whatever and i don’t think

[Bianca Thomas]: that’s true you can’t

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Bianca Thomas]: tough here out of trauma you can’t

tough your

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Bianca Thomas]: way out of depression you can’t tough

your way out of panic disorder and a

[Bianca Thomas]: gorphobia or a failing marriage or a

failing business or whatever you have to be

[Bianca Thomas]: willing to be vulnerable enough to understand

what is really going on and then go

[Bianca Thomas]: get help

[Nick McGowan]: it’s a great point great point and

i know tha you’re actively doing the

[Bianca Thomas]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: work again i know we’ve only known

each other for a little bit of time

[Nick McGowan]: here but i’m proud of what you’ve

done the work

[Bianca Thomas]: thank

[Nick McGowan]: that you’ve

[Bianca Thomas]: you

[Nick McGowan]: put in and who you are now

so thank you for doing that and for

[Nick McGowan]: sharing and continuing to do the fucking

work because it’s not over it’s a

[Bianca Thomas]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: constant thing it’s the evolution right

[Bianca Thomas]: exactly every day

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Bianca Thomas]: i will never stop doing this you

know it’s not it’s not six months you’re

[Bianca Thomas]: healed and then you stop it’s

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Bianca Thomas]: six months and then

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Bianca Thomas]: the rest of your life

[Nick McGowan]: hm so where can people find you

[Bianca Thomas]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: and where can they connect with you

[Bianca Thomas]: i am on every social media platform

i’m more prevalent on instagram so the uh

[Bianca Thomas]: my name is evolved with bianca you

can follow of all ventures technologies where on

[Bianca Thomas]: facebook instagram um we have a private

facebook page it’s a free free page we

[Bianca Thomas]: have incredible people or um evolve ventures

society so those are all you know a

[Bianca Thomas]: few places that you can go and

the podcast of all ventures

[Nick McGowan]: beautiful everybody go check it out all

that stuff will be in the show notes

[Nick McGowan]: as well and thank you so much

for being on the show it’s been a

[Nick McGowan]: pleasure

[Bianca Thomas]: thank you for having me

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