How To Hustle And Still Live In The Present Moment – Ep.047 – Matt LeBris

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Episode summary:​  Growing up in New York, Matt LeBris grew up with that hustle mentality. Choosing money over everything has a cost though.

Matt learned that choosing money means you neglect relationships and hurt those who care about you. Now, Matt has done everything he can to become the better of himself.

He’s taking therapy to talk about an abusive relationship he was in, ‘hustles’ mindfully, gives time to loved ones, and treat people with respect. 

Guest Name & Bio: Matt LeBris is a born and raised NY’er who inevitably caught the hustler’s spirit that fills his hometown streets. He previously worked with Daymond John of Shark Tank and currently hosts a top 1% globally ranked podcast, Decoding Success, which has featured the likes of Grant Cardone, Mel Robbins, and many more.

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[Nick McGowan]: Hey Matt. welcome to the show, man. How are you doing?

[Matt LeBris]: Nick let me first before i even answer that question i just want to say

[Matt LeBris]: thank you for the opportunity i know we’re having good vibes and we’re exchanging some

[Matt LeBris]: pleasantries before we even dive into things so i just want to say thank you

[Matt LeBris]: for the opportunity to be here with you and things are today is a good

[Matt LeBris]: day i’m trying to take

[Matt LeBris]: life day by day i don’t know how much you can resonate with living too

[Matt LeBris]: much in the future maybe too much in the past i’m one of those people

[Matt LeBris]: but today is a good day and i’m trying to be right here right now with you

[Nick McGowan]: good ship man i appreciate that thank you for the kind words i think we’re

[Nick McGowan]: gonna have a great conversation typically when i talk to somebody from the north east

[Nick McGowan]: we were kind of slip into north east isms so i expect

[Nick McGowan]: some of that shit going to come up but I know that we’re going to also

get into what you just talked about there are the good days there the bad days there also the times where you’re just so far in the past or so far in the future you just need o pull your ass back and get to present and we can probably just spend most of the sucking conversation talking about that stuff but  let’s actually give a little bit of context here man why don’t you tell us who you are you know basically what you do for a living and give us one thing that most people don’t know about you that’s a little odd or bizarre

[Matt LeBris]: absolutely so

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: born and raised new york or who

inevitably call it the hustler spirit that fills

[Matt LeBris]: my hometown streets i that’s the best

way to describe me that is the best

[Matt LeBris]: way to describe me born and raised

here and like i said

[Matt LeBris]: you know just being from the hustle

and bustle of new york seeing what’s possible

[Matt LeBris]: seeing how fast things move

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Matt LeBris]: it’s really really hard not to be

a part of that on the flip side

[Matt LeBris]: of it’s really important to detach from


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: but essentially you know life took me

down the craziest roller coaster and i know

[Matt LeBris]: a million to one people get a

test to that everyone’s rollo coaster is different

[Matt LeBris]: with a lot of similarities at times

i thought i was going to be a

[Matt LeBris]: professional baseball player but i’ll tell you

i am not a professional baseball player

[Matt LeBris]: i am a

[Matt LeBris]: gentleman in business to say the absolute

least formerly worked with damon john of shark

[Matt LeBris]: tank directly out of college which was

an incredible opportunity and it

[Matt LeBris]: led me to what i’m doing today

which is sing a podcast of my own

[Matt LeBris]: and also running an agency but i’ll

tell you this nick in full transparency although

[Matt LeBris]: i do that today i can’t say

it’s what i’m going to be doing tomorrow

[Matt LeBris]: and i like to throw that there

too and you know one thing that people

[Matt LeBris]: don’t know about me is probably the

fact that i still pick my nose and

[Matt LeBris]: wipe it under the desk that i’m


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: at i definitely don’t say that often

but i’m going to go with that because

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: it’s the first thing he can to

my mind

[Nick McGowan]: fucking

[Matt LeBris]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: amen thank you

[Matt LeBris]: okay

[Nick McGowan]: i ask people for something that’s weird

or bizarre and something that most people don’t

[Nick McGowan]: know and dude you just checked off

all the boxes and you got super vulnerable

[Nick McGowan]: with us because i’m sure most people

even in their you

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: know in their teens are like i

don’t want to talk about picking my nose

[Nick McGowan]: or as they get older in their

twenties thirties forties like you don’t typically just

[Nick McGowan]: talk about that so i just going

[Matt LeBris]: uh

[Nick McGowan]: straight to the point like i got

an itch i pick it and then i

[Nick McGowan]: wipe it somewhere and it’s not on

the body

[Matt LeBris]: oh dude now i’m a big

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Matt LeBris]: gold digger man and i’m not going

around looking for a sugar mamma but

[Nick McGowan]: um

[Matt LeBris]: i am one hundred percent digging for

gold numerous

[Nick McGowan]: umm

[Matt LeBris]: times in the day and i am

very proud to pull out some really nice

[Matt LeBris]: booker

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Matt LeBris]: so i hope that’s i hope that’s

a great

[Nick McGowan]: h m

[Matt LeBris]: answer and i hope no one else

has ever said that in the forty

[Matt LeBris]: plus episode

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: you’ve recorded

[Nick McGowan]: no no nobody has and now there’s

a bar that has been set for everybody

[Nick McGowan]: else so to those who are listening

to this show if you’re going to be

[Nick McGowan]: a guest on this show you better

come up with something fucking weirder

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: than that or more vulnerable i should

[Matt LeBris]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: say because the most part you know

we all do that sort of stuff it’s

[Nick McGowan]: that’s like the sort of ship that

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: people don’t really want to talk about

but they have problems with just like mental

[Nick McGowan]: health you know think of

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: us as men through ship where

[Matt LeBris]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: especially being raised in the north east

[Matt LeBris]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: i don’t know

[Matt LeBris]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: exactly what it was like in your

area but in that area you fucking get

[Nick McGowan]: up you put dirt on it and

you keep fucking going that’s typically

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: how it roll especially as we were

younger and that has to change now i

ean that’s even a major portion to

why i have the show is to be

[Nick McGowan]: able to talk through that sort of

stuff and get through the trauma and what

[Nick McGowan]: not so again man i appreciate your

being honest and vulnerable

[Matt LeBris]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: but let’s go a little deeper within

[Matt LeBris]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: that not deeper into your nose like

touching your brain but deeper into the what

[Nick McGowan]: actually makes you you so you’d mentioned

about damon and that’s that’s all and that

[Nick McGowan]: you had worked with him he seems

like a great dude but he also seems

[Nick McGowan]: like one of those guys that ill

literally hold you over the fire and hold

[Nick McGowan]: you accountable so talk to us about

that tell us how you got into that

[Nick McGowan]: situation with him and how it shaped


[Matt LeBris]: i’m going to tell you a crazy


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: i’m going to try and keep it

quick but a crazy freaking story that you

[Matt LeBris]: know when the universe is working for

you the universe is working for you and

[Matt LeBris]: it’s always

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: working for us right back tracking before

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: i met damon i was in new

york city hospitality so two older individuals who

[Matt LeBris]: are

[Nick McGowan]: right

[Matt LeBris]: very very good friends of mine they

were in

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Matt LeBris]: hospitality before me just to the fact

that i mean essentially to be in hospitality

[Matt LeBris]: here you need to be a certain

age so i could never participate in it

[Matt LeBris]: without a fake idea but

[Matt LeBris]: it got to a point where i

was a partner in a business for and

[Matt LeBris]: years which yielded me the result

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: of meeting incredible people incredible and a

plethora of

[Matt LeBris]: them like my role decks i am

so grateful for the

[Matt LeBris]: amount of people that i know uh

at the same time it kind of shoots

[Matt LeBris]: me and you know shoots myself in

the foot because you know i don’t want

[Matt LeBris]: to date a girl that’s hooked up

with this person because i know them you

[Matt LeBris]: know like

[Nick McGowan]: ye

[Matt LeBris]: that’s a whole other rabbit hole

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Matt LeBris]: ultimately the reason bring

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: this up is because i met incredible

people through that opportunity a gentleman that worked

[Matt LeBris]: with damon just so happened to be

someone that i met the same day i

[Matt LeBris]: met damon and here’s how it went

i was in dominican republic while in college

[Matt LeBris]: celebrating spring break i made a ship

ton of money while in college and i’m

[Matt LeBris]: very grateful for that i say it

humbly and i used what i learned to

[Matt LeBris]: help the people in my college because

i went to a college in a very

[Matt LeBris]: food desert just like a poverty filled

area of south jamaica queen

[Matt LeBris]: so if you know fifty cent

[Matt LeBris]: if you know g unit if you

know nicky manage like those artists emerge from

[Matt LeBris]: that area it’s the hood you know

and i say

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: that politely i went to college there

and i didn’t come from that area so

[Matt LeBris]: i wanted to use what i you


[Matt LeBris]: learned and gathered to help other people

and i did exactly that so while i’m

[Matt LeBris]: in dominican republic and i’m a student

leader at this point like i said i’m

[Matt LeBris]: helping as many people as i could

help i’m in dominican republic on spring break

[Matt LeBris]: with two people i didn’t attend college

with i get a phone call across the

[Matt LeBris]: top of my phone and it says

cuny your college which is where i went

[Matt LeBris]: to school and i’m like why the

hell are they calling me i paid my

[Matt LeBris]: tuition like why

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: else would they be calling me i

knew i paid my tuition because i paid

[Matt LeBris]: it my damn self my parents cut

me off so i answered the phone the

[Matt LeBris]: woman on the other end of the

line says to me matt would you like

[Matt LeBris]: the opportunity to meet damon john of

shark tanks coming

[Matt LeBris]: to our college campus

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: on x y z date i said

yeah you know i’m saying in the back

[Matt LeBris]: of my head why the hell would

she even need to ask me this woman

[Matt LeBris]: knows me so

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: well she should know it’s a yes

it just so happened the date he was

[Matt LeBris]: coming to my school was the day

after i was returning from my trip so

[Matt LeBris]: like things were aligning

[Matt LeBris]: now i was one of three students

invited to meet damon in the green room

[Matt LeBris]: of you know the auditorium where he

was going to be on stage doing a

[Matt LeBris]: fireside chat i was the last person

to shake his hand fast to that day

[Matt LeBris]: i was the last person to shake

his hand before he went on stage i

[Matt LeBris]: shook his hand now i’m six foot

five he’s probably five foot five five foot

[Matt LeBris]: six five foot seven whatever he is

i don’t know he looked at me after

[Matt LeBris]: i shook his hand and he said

what the hell do they teach you here

[Matt LeBris]: how to break

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Matt LeBris]: people’s hands so it was kind of

good vibes

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: off the bat

[Nick McGowan]: hm oh

[Matt LeBris]: i had a five minute conversation with

him i said damon to end the conversation

[Matt LeBris]: i said damon i’m going to work

for you he looked at me like i

[Matt LeBris]: was crazy like i had ten heads

i know i have one big head i

[Matt LeBris]: know

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Matt LeBris]: this one is big but he looked

at me like i had ten of them

[Matt LeBris]: and that was it now after his

speech i had brought my mentor with me

[Matt LeBris]: the gentleman that i was in business

with in new york city hospitality we were

[Matt LeBris]: the two last people to leave the

theater so we thought we’re standing in the

[Matt LeBris]: middle i was sitting in the front

he was sitting in the back because i

[Matt LeBris]: was a student he wasn’t a student

we meet in the middle of the theater

[Matt LeBris]: i thought we were the last two

people and out of my porifhial vision i

[Matt LeBris]: see santa claus or i’m sorry someone

that looks like santa claus walking up the

[Matt LeBris]: staircase and i say to my buddy

i’m like where do we know this guy

[Matt LeBris]: from me looks so familiar happens to

be a gentleman named george barns this is

[Matt LeBris]: where the story comes full circle george

barns pretty much ran new york city hospitality

[Matt LeBris]: for years

[Matt LeBris]: it just so happened that i was

connected to george lo and behold george works

[Matt LeBris]: for damon

[Nick McGowan]: fulk

[Matt LeBris]: that was my in that was my

in and it’s not to say george got

[Matt LeBris]: me my inturnship which turned into a

job it was more so george was the

[Matt LeBris]: liaison for me to get an interview

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: and he likes me to emphasize that

because he didn’t pull strings and say oh

[Matt LeBris]: hi or matt it was hey here’s

a kid he’s a hustler interview him i

[Matt LeBris]: interviewed i had an intern ship for

a full year because i was still a

[Matt LeBris]: student and i said you know what

i’m going to hustle my ass off and

[Matt LeBris]: i’m going to work for this guy

and that’s exactly what i did i ended

[Matt LeBris]: up working for him for three four


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: incredible opportunity i learned so much from

him a really great guy not the type

[Matt LeBris]: of guy that will hold you over

the fire depending on the day he’s having

[Matt LeBris]: but

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: a gentleman that wants to help

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: say the least um you know be

a father figure be a mentor be a

[Matt LeBris]: friend i mean there were times he

would call me eleven thirty at night because

[Matt LeBris]: he’s on the west

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: coast and i’m like dude i’m trying

to go to sleep

[Matt LeBris]: and then we would just talk

[Matt LeBris]: talk about work talk about business go

out to dinner have a great time you

[Matt LeBris]: know i miss having that relationship with

him because i can’t say i have it

[Matt LeBris]: still to this day i still talk

to him every now and then i’ll check

[Matt LeBris]: in but an incredible incredible op ortunity

to say the absolute least neck

[Nick McGowan]: that’s awesome man you know everything rise

and falls on leadership and that can be

[Nick McGowan]: easy to say and a lot harder

to do you know where he

[Matt LeBris]: m

[Nick McGowan]: seems like that type and i my

only connection to him right now it is

[Nick McGowan]: through you and i’m sure there ther

people that are like six degrees of kevin

[Nick McGowan]: bacon style in a sense but

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: from what i’ve seen i feel like

he’s one of those guys that is just

[Nick McGowan]: a true and true character that’s who

he is that’s what he’s about and wears

[Nick McGowan]: his heart on his sleeve so i

know going into that sort of situation it’s

uch better or much different than somebody

having an intern ship with jim bob and

[Nick McGowan]: his wife and the ship little company

down the street and then trying to figure

[Nick McGowan]: things out so what what sort of

pieces of advice would you give to somebody

[Nick McGowan]: of like here’s the three or four

or five years that i’ve had with im

[Nick McGowan]: and his team these are the major

things that i took away from that really

[Nick McGowan]: stand out to you

[Matt LeBris]: you want to know it’s crazy here’s

the first

[Matt LeBris]: one damon really put an emphasis on

understanding that not everyone is going to have

[Matt LeBris]: an opportunity to work with garry venner

chuck or a tony robins or

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: a cat blakeley right but that jim

bob that owns the laundry mat around the

[Matt LeBris]: corner from your house that’s been open

for twenty five years he’s in business for

[Matt LeBris]: twenty five years because he knows something

[Matt LeBris]: damon put a lot of emphasis on

that and you know it’s because not everyone

[Matt LeBris]: and it’s not everyone’s path to encounter

a garry venner chuck or whomever right

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: but it is our path to potentially

meet that person that’s been in business for

[Matt LeBris]: twenty five years so that would be

the first thing the second thing i’ll never

[Matt LeBris]: forget i was sitting at a meeting

with him once the president and i were

[Matt LeBris]: on one side of the table damon’s

road manager was on the other side and

[Matt LeBris]: damon was in the middle of the

table at c sitting at the head it’s

[Matt LeBris]: safe to say that two sides were

in disagreement and damon was so level headed

[Matt LeBris]: so i had

[Matt LeBris]: to pull him to the side and

after that meeting i asked an i’m like

[Matt LeBris]: dude like do you not care about

what we’re talking about like what’s going on

[Matt LeBris]: he said matt business is n’t brain

surgery dude like

[Matt LeBris]: whatever we decide to do

[Matt LeBris]: whatever route we decide to go with

no one’s no one’s life is at risk

[Matt LeBris]: here like yeah we

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: might lose some money we might make

some money but no one’s life is at

[Matt LeBris]: risk and he had such a calm

demeanor to him all the time i’m working

[Matt LeBris]: on getting there nick i’m not there


[Matt LeBris]: i’m working on getting

[Matt LeBris]: there i am i’m not there i

say very transparently that was definitely you know

[Matt LeBris]: up there for sure in regard to

things i’ve learned secondly and although i already

[Matt LeBris]: knew that i’m sorry thirdly and although

i already knew this it was emphasized through

[Matt LeBris]: this experience the importance of relationships

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: i credit am near all of my

achievements to relationships my podcast and the guests

[Matt LeBris]: that i have on the show being

able to chop it up with you here

[Matt LeBris]: being able to work with damon the

list goes on like

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: relationships it’s not you’re not going to

be able to foster every relationship or nurture

[Matt LeBris]: every relationship so it’s important to understand

which ones you need to do that with

[Matt LeBris]: but at the

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: same time you don’t want to burn

any bridges either so for me i do

[Matt LeBris]: my absolute best to stay in contact

with me any and everyone i can like

[Matt LeBris]: i make myself laugh i actually sent

an apology text message to a few women

[Matt LeBris]: that i treated poorly in my late

teens early twenties

[Matt LeBris]: because that’s how much i value relationships

and although none of them responded to me

[Matt LeBris]: by the way um and you know

in fact one of their boy friends actually

[Matt LeBris]: called me untold me never to reach


[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Matt LeBris]: it was merely an apology because i

genuinely like value relationship s on that level

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: so if i were to give you

the top three things that’s probably it i

[Matt LeBris]: can’t sit here and say like i

have the number one marketing secret

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: in the world it’s not like that

[Nick McGowan]: thank you

[Matt LeBris]: really comes down to those three things

[Nick McGowan]: yeah and thank you for not giving

me some bullshit

[Matt LeBris]: m

[Nick McGowan]: of like oh this is what it

is and it’s a big package deal and

[Nick McGowan]: it’s not real that’s good stuff though

man especially the relationships and

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: proud of you for stepping up and

going back to those people from before it’s

[Nick McGowan]: part of like almost a twelfth step

program in a sense to make sure that

[Nick McGowan]: you forgive yourself

[Matt LeBris]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: and then that you’re able to get

that least it out to those other people

[Nick McGowan]: if you had an expectation of i

should hear back from each one of these

[Nick McGowan]: women and they should all say to

me hey you’re totally all right things are

[Nick McGowan]: great we’re cool that’s a different thing

but it doesn’t sound like that’s where you

[Nick McGowan]: were coming from you i need to

get this off my chest to do it

[Nick McGowan]: the right way

[Matt LeBris]: yeah man it really

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Matt LeBris]: came down to so i’ve been in

therapy since june of twenty twenty and i

[Matt LeBris]: entered therapy because i was in a

very very abusive relationship that i let happen

[Matt LeBris]: so it’s not

[Matt LeBris]: me blaming the woman i was dating

whatsoever for you to be in a relationship

[Matt LeBris]: that has toxicity there’s a part of

you that is also toxic in i find

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: some sort of home or closeness to

that right so i’m not blaming her but

[Matt LeBris]: it led me to go into therapy


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: going through that process i realized like

although i’m not getting treated or wasn’t getting

[Matt LeBris]: treated good in that relationship i’ve been

in plenty of relationships where i had to

[Matt LeBris]: entreat people good to and truth be

told i i probably wanted a sincere apology

[Matt LeBris]: from the woman i was dating at

that time to just

[Matt LeBris]: say matt like i’m sorry for how

i treated you

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Matt LeBris]: or for how i treat you and

i still truthfully haven’t gotten that from her

[Matt LeBris]: i don’t think i ever will in

that fine sometimes you got to be able

[Matt LeBris]: to create

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: your own closure and what not but

i said to my self you know what

[Matt LeBris]: there were two to three women that

love the ship out of me i didn’t

[Matt LeBris]: treat right know

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: and just because their love made me

uncomfortable that doesn’t give me the right to

[Matt LeBris]: neglect them or to toy with their

emotions just to get whatever i wanted when

[Matt LeBris]: i wanted you

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: know so i just wanted to say

sorry you know and it wasn’t like i

[Matt LeBris]: was expecting to get back to gether

with any of it wasn’t that wasn’t the

[Matt LeBris]: intention the intention

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: was simply to say hey i was

younger i toyed with your emotions i apologized

[Matt LeBris]: for what i did and that’s it

you know and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: i kept it moving

[Nick McGowan]: that’s huge vie to go to c


[Matt LeBris]: what

[Nick McGowan]: and seek out some sort of help

outside of yourself especially being in that situation

[Matt LeBris]: yeah man

[Nick McGowan]: i’m sure that was one of those

things where it wasn’t like you woke up

[Nick McGowan]: one day and you’re like what funk

everything is wrong i need to do something

[Nick McGowan]: right now it was probably stewing in

the back and i’ve experienced some of that

[Nick McGowan]: to myself i got a divorce last

year and spent probably a couple of years

[Nick McGowan]: kind of working through ship on my

own and there were things that we needed

[Nick McGowan]: to work through and realized that i

abandoned myself in certain ways and ways that

[Nick McGowan]: i shouldn’t

[Matt LeBris]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: have ever abandoned which then kind of

fucked up my side of the relationship and

[Nick McGowan]: funked everything else up going forward from

there but being able to talk to somebody

[Nick McGowan]: is huge and i know it took

me a lot to be able to get

[Nick McGowan]: to that point to go all right

i need to do this but what was

[Nick McGowan]: it for you that actually helped you

get over that line because again for the

[Nick McGowan]: audience i know there are people that

are on here they hear that sort of

[Nick McGowan]: stuff and they go that’s cool but

i don’t really i don’t really need that

[Nick McGowan]: i don’t want to go through it

i don’t want have to deal with it

[Nick McGowan]: but everybody that does that gets to

a point where they go that’s it i

[Nick McGowan]: need this i need to go do

this i need to go talk to these

[Nick McGowan]: people i need to get the ship

out or bad things are going to happen

[Nick McGowan]: so what happened for you to get

to that point where you went i need

[Nick McGowan]: to snap out of that

[Matt LeBris]: great question for me

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: personally i have to admit nick i

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: never had an issue with seeking growth


[Matt LeBris]: avenue growth would be delivered to i

never had that issue i’m going a answer

[Matt LeBris]: this question in a way that i

think will help those people that you were

[Matt LeBris]: just referencing

[Nick McGowan]: god

[Matt LeBris]: in regard to maybe someone doesn’t want

to go seek out that help professionally or

[Matt LeBris]: they just want to take it on


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: we owe


[Matt LeBris]: it to god the universe allah whoever

you believe in we owe it to our

[Matt LeBris]: creator whoever that may be for you

to be our best version of ourselves

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: now to be our best version of

ourself we’re going to have to endure the

[Matt LeBris]: storms we’re going to have to triumph

over during turbulent times like all of that

[Matt LeBris]: is a part of it without a

doubt but there’s nothing nothing

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Matt LeBris]: nothing that ping someone from getting help

while doing that you don’t have to

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Matt LeBris]: endure

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Matt LeBris]: all of that by yourself right

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: and for a long time i did

i mean there’s ship more to my story

[Matt LeBris]: i mean i’ve been arrested i’ve gotten

kicked out of college for grades i’ve gotten

[Matt LeBris]: kicked out of two high schools i


[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Matt LeBris]: blew over eighty thousand dollars

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Matt LeBris]: in life savings try to live up

to a certain level or standard that i

[Matt LeBris]: had for myself that was way above

my means at that time dude like i’ve

[Matt LeBris]: been through the fucking ringer you know

[Matt LeBris]: and i

[Matt LeBris]: can’t necessarily we say that there was

something that you know a specific moment that

[Matt LeBris]: made me want to go do it

outside of just knowing that i wasn’t being

[Matt LeBris]: treated right in that relationship

[Matt LeBris]: what i would just say for

[Matt LeBris]: other people is simply just know that

you owe it to not only our creator

[Matt LeBris]: but also yourself to want to be

the best version of you now to

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: be that best version

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: of you it’s i don’t want to

say it’s text book but we are human

[Matt LeBris]: beings

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Matt LeBris]: a lot of us are wired the

same or i mean for the most part

[Matt LeBris]: where all wired the same the only

thing that makes us different is our experience

[Matt LeBris]: s our upbringing

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: cetera et cetera sitting down and

[Nick McGowan]: at

[Matt LeBris]: talking with someone i mean listen at

first it could get overwhelming you could be

[Matt LeBris]: you know revealing ship that you didn’t

know about yourself that you need to attend

[Matt LeBris]: to but i’ll tell you this the

more you uncover that the more you uncover

[Matt LeBris]: yourself

[Nick McGowan]: yep

[Matt LeBris]: and that is one of the most

beautiful parts of that process that i do

[Matt LeBris]: not regret because i am so woke

to myself

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: i’m so aware of

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: who i am and you want to

know what there’s going to be a new

[Matt LeBris]: mat that i’m goin a meet in

a year and a new mat i meet

[Matt LeBris]: after

[Nick McGowan]: yep

[Matt LeBris]: that like it’s going to keep being

that new person that new person that new

[Matt LeBris]: person should want to meet that person

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: and seeking

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: out that help is you know one

way to do it

[Nick McGowan]: that’s a good point man know i

often say that people think about future you

[Nick McGowan]: how future you’re going to feel about

this and there are times where

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: either that client or somebody that you

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: know i’m friends with they’re like well

future me might and hate me like do

[Nick McGowan]: you want future you like no all

right i get

[Matt LeBris]: right

[Nick McGowan]: the point and move along but to

even think about yourself in that sense like

[Nick McGowan]: you’re doing this to future you and

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: future other people that are involved in

the situation that you don’t even know about

[Nick McGowan]: right now

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: so how are you doing this and

are you okay with that

[Matt LeBris]: m

[Nick McGowan]: and if you can stomach that and

go yeah yeah i’m okay with this in

[Nick McGowan]: future you look back you do that

so many times that you realize i don’t

[Nick McGowan]: like this feeling any more i want

to stop that and be able to get

[Matt LeBris]: m

[Nick McGowan]: out of that now i know you

you said that you’ve been through a lot

[Nick McGowan]: of ship and that’s part of what

the show was about being able to get

[Nick McGowan]: into that ship becase there are people

that kind of hide things behind them that

[Nick McGowan]: you just don’t know about like you

think about if you walk down the street

[Nick McGowan]: anybody you see you have no idea

what kind of crazy fucking story they have

[Nick McGowan]: or what’s really behind their eyes being

able to get into some of those moments

[Nick McGowan]: is really what i like to get

into on this on this show so if

[Nick McGowan]: there are any pivotal moments or little

episodes within life that you can look back

[Nick McGowan]: at and go damn that was one

of those moments that everything changed or it’s

[Nick McGowan]: changed me drastically

[Matt LeBris]: so many of them and it’s hard

to just call out one i mean wow

[Matt LeBris]: i guess one of the now one

of the ones

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Matt LeBris]: i speak about or one of the

ones you hear me one of the experiences

[Matt LeBris]: i speak about often i remember vividly

sitting in my buddy’s restaurant at the time

[Matt LeBris]: and i don’t even know what part

of brooklyn i was in but he was

[Matt LeBris]: the head chef there managing partner really

incredible opportunity for him and we were sitting

[Matt LeBris]: in there truthfully smoking weed after everything

closed up you know we were just sitting

[Matt LeBris]: there watching you

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Matt LeBris]: tube


[Matt LeBris]: video

[Nick McGowan]: restaurant

[Matt LeBris]: smoking

[Nick McGowan]: workers

[Matt LeBris]: weed there you go um

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Matt LeBris]: and yeah we were just being i

came to go visit him and i pulled

[Matt LeBris]: out my laptop

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Matt LeBris]: and i was showing him someone that

i newly discovered now keep in mind this

[Matt LeBris]: is years ago i’m told king over

eight years ago maybe closer yeah eight nine

[Matt LeBris]: years ago we’re sitting in this restaurant

smoking weed pull up a youtube video and

[Matt LeBris]: like hey dude i just discovered this

guy this guy was garry vanorchuck and he

[Matt LeBris]: said listen i’m not into the hustle

porn ship you know i’m not going to

[Matt LeBris]: sit here like and say i’m some

garry stand i truthfully the only influencer i

[Matt LeBris]: follow is damon that’s because i have

a connection to him i love garry great

[Matt LeBris]: guy he said three words that resonated

with me forever changed my life because at

[Matt LeBris]: that point i had failed out of

college i was just like you know what

[Matt LeBris]: i’m going to hustle my way to

the top

[Matt LeBris]: not that i’m not saying college is

you know the right choice for everyone but

[Matt LeBris]: he said legacy over currency

[Matt LeBris]: and i said fuck

[Matt LeBris]: i just said funk i was

[Matt LeBris]: like i’m doing the complete

[Matt LeBris]: opposite

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: i was dude i can’t even tell

you nick i was hurting so many people

[Matt LeBris]: around me while i was hustling

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: spending no time with my father because

my parents were divorced i would literally neglect

[Matt LeBris]: i didn’t see my grandparents his father

and his mother before they passed away

[Matt LeBris]: this is the first time i’m actually

talking about this out loud like i genuinely

[Matt LeBris]: regret that

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: um you know they they’re the reason

i’m here they came from france to america

[Matt LeBris]: to new york met here had my

father and his sister my aunt and without

[Matt LeBris]: them i wouldn’t be here and i

didn’t even see them before they passed away

[Nick McGowan]: an

[Matt LeBris]: that’s how hard i was hustling i

spent no time with my dad no time

[Matt LeBris]: with my dad that changed eventually i

spent time with my dad i talked to

[Matt LeBris]: him a lot more frequently now i’m

really grateful for parents of divorce i didn’t

[Matt LeBris]: live with him for years


[Matt LeBris]: i put money before everyone i put

money i put money before myself know and

[Matt LeBris]: i just said to myself is this

the legacy that i want to leave behind

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: is this really what i want what

i want to be remembered for a dollar

[Matt LeBris]: sign

[Matt LeBris]: in my bank account when i pass

away like it just didn’t add up and

[Matt LeBris]: i’m not undervaluing money when i say

that because it is damn near important i

[Matt LeBris]: mean it’s at the top of

[Nick McGowan]: up

[Matt LeBris]: the

[Nick McGowan]: there

[Matt LeBris]: list

[Nick McGowan]: with

[Matt LeBris]: you

[Nick McGowan]: the

[Matt LeBris]: need

[Nick McGowan]: oxygen

[Matt LeBris]: it to survive

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: yeah you need it to survive right

that’s that’s what it is especially if you

[Matt LeBris]: live in a place like new york

city or anywhere anywhere not even where you

[Matt LeBris]: live right just anywhere period um dude

that was probably the moment i said you

[Matt LeBris]: know what you learned how to hustle

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: go get your hustle on in a

more respectful way in a more mature

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Matt LeBris]: way

[Matt LeBris]: do it like a gentleman stop you

know doing this little kid ship hustle hustle

[Matt LeBris]: hustle smoke hustle hustle hustle et

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: cetera i love the hustle do it

more mindfully is the

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: best way i should say it hustle


[Nick McGowan]: that’s a great point man i am

anti hustle at this point because

[Matt LeBris]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: i went through the same ship where

i was literally just pushing and pushing and

[Nick McGowan]: pushing because i grew up in a


[Matt LeBris]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: like rich poor dad sort of deal

my dad and his wife

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: had a bunch of money my mom

really didn’t have much so i saw the

[Nick McGowan]: dichotomy between those two and was like

i don’t want to live in a shack

[Nick McGowan]: basically so how do i make

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

oney than all of these people can

bind and go fucking crazy and you start

[Nick McGowan]: burning relationship you to start burning yourself

out and i think certain people have to

[Nick McGowan]: go through that to then realize wait

that’s not right that’s not how this should

[Nick McGowan]: be and you go through this just

burning and burning you start to burn yourself

[Nick McGowan]: out where at that point you’re just

kind of a hollow shell

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: it’s difficult to pull yourself back from

but if you can pull yourself back from

[Nick McGowan]: that and be able to figure out

how to hustle differently that’s more about work

[Nick McGowan]: ethic at that point i think you

and i are probably similar in a sense

[Nick McGowan]: where we don’t we don’t get afraid

of work like we enjoy the work especially

[Nick McGowan]: the ship that we like right i

think about it you can do stuff and

[Nick McGowan]: expend hours and hours and hours and

look up like holy ship i should probably

[Nick McGowan]: go eat something it’s been twelve

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: hours or what have you but that’s

different than actually hustling and i want to

[Nick McGowan]: i want to point this out because

i know there are people parents i don’t

[Nick McGowan]: have any kids but

[Matt LeBris]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: there are parents that have said to

friends and even family members i’m doing this

[Nick McGowan]: for you and i think that’s one

of the biggest loads of ship that anybody

[Nick McGowan]: can heap on to their children

[Matt LeBris]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: where they’re hustling

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: to be able to do it for

their kids and that’s bullshit and i think

[Nick McGowan]: we need to change that and change

the way that we look at that again

[Nick McGowan]: i don’t have kids but i know

at some point when i’m going to do

[Nick McGowan]: everything i can to be able to

show them how to live but also not

[Nick McGowan]: show them how to go out and

drive yourself fucking crazy and work yourself to

[Nick McGowan]: the bone for just dollars i mean

you get to a certain what the fun

[Nick McGowan]: were you on a buy another shirt

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: does it

[Matt LeBris]: well


[Matt LeBris]: here’s the thing nick a hundred per

cent i can

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: tell you this i used it as

a coping mechanism

[Nick McGowan]: oh yeah

[Matt LeBris]: right i used it as a coping

mechanism because as i was avoiding important relationship

[Matt LeBris]: such as family

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: i

[Matt LeBris]: came to real and still to this

day this is true right i have a

[Matt LeBris]: very very tough relationship with my mother

to say the

[Matt LeBris]: least

[Matt LeBris]: i was using it as an escape

[Nick McGowan]: it’s

[Matt LeBris]: at

[Nick McGowan]: easier

[Matt LeBris]: one

[Nick McGowan]: to

[Matt LeBris]: point

[Nick McGowan]: do the

[Matt LeBris]: in

[Nick McGowan]: work

[Matt LeBris]: my life it’s easier to do the


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: there was one point in

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Matt LeBris]: my life when i failed out of

college i was making well over six figures

[Matt LeBris]: in college sometimes i look back when

i graduated college i’m like fun why did

[Matt LeBris]: i go

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: to college i was making more before

i went

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: you know i’m like what the hell

is going on but i’ll tell you this

[Matt LeBris]: would literally on fridays specifically i’ll never

forget this friday or saturday i forget which

[Matt LeBris]: one it was i would go to

restaurant depot for a buddy who owns a

[Matt LeBris]: restaurant in my neighborhood and i would

go pick up his supply for the day

[Matt LeBris]: i would drop them off i would

go to the gym and work out because

[Matt LeBris]: at that time i worked at the

gym and i said to myself if i

[Matt LeBris]: can get a job at the gym

i don’t need to pay for a membership

[Matt LeBris]: let me work at the gym so

i would do that from twelve to five

[Matt LeBris]: after five o’clock i would speed over

to an italian restaurant in my neighborhood and

[Matt LeBris]: i would deliver pizza from five to

nine or five to ten at ten p

[Matt LeBris]: m i would go home shower get

ready and go to the club because i

[Matt LeBris]: was in new york city night life

and i would stay there till four or

[Matt LeBris]: five a m and then i would


[Matt LeBris]: up and repeat i was so far

removed from family staying out of my house

[Matt LeBris]: because i didn’t want to around them

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: you know like no one understood me

i was the black sheep the people that

[Matt LeBris]: understood me most were the people i

was surrounding myself with which are my friends

[Matt LeBris]: my closest friends five ix people that

genuinely understand me that’s my family and it’s

[Matt LeBris]: not to say my mom my sister

my dad they’re not my family i have

[Matt LeBris]: a better relationship with people now than


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: previously did but i was using it

as a coping mechanism with that a doubt

[Nick McGowan]: good point man good point the king

self awareness of that i’m sure that it’s

[Nick McGowan]: not something that happened right in that

moment where you were like him using this

[Nick McGowan]: as a coping mechanism rock and roll

keep going years later

[Matt LeBris]: okay

[Nick McGowan]: did that come up through therapy or

was that something that you came to your

[Nick McGowan]: own awareness through

[Matt LeBris]: i think a little bit of both

to be honest i realized through therapy that

[Matt LeBris]: it was okay to refer to my

friends as family

[Matt LeBris]: and view my relationships with them on

a high er level than i do with

[Matt LeBris]: the people that actually are blood related

to me

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: that was one thing i learned in

therapy because i thought that that was wrong

[Matt LeBris]: i was like

[Matt LeBris]: wait like my actual like i would

get jealous times during the holiday season like

[Matt LeBris]: truthfully this past holiday season i hated

it i

[Matt LeBris]: hated it

[Nick McGowan]: why is that

[Matt LeBris]: i didn’t great question why is that

i felt stressed i felt stressed i don’t

[Matt LeBris]: know if it’s because i come from

an italian background and you know my my

[Matt LeBris]: father side is french m but i

feel like during the holiday season the way

[Matt LeBris]: i grew it was a time to


[Matt LeBris]: so for instance if my mother was

hosting let’s call it christmas or you know

[Matt LeBris]: if she was um you know we

were going somewhere else for christmas eve it

[Matt LeBris]: was about performance what and you bring

you know you need to be on your

[Matt LeBris]: a game

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: dude it was just always a stressful

time like i can care less for it

[Matt LeBris]: and it sucks to say that you

know yeah i mean i definitely learned that

[Matt LeBris]: it’s okay to value you know my

my friends as my family and that was

[Matt LeBris]: something that i kind of thought was

frowned upon but then when i realized it

[Matt LeBris]: was okay i was like yu know

what good you know

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: i’m good but that’s

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: the truth for me

[Nick McGowan]: that’s a good point man and that’s

not it’s not a bad thing it’s just

[Nick McGowan]: what you were used to so is

different so for you to look at it

[Nick McGowan]: and go oh

[Matt LeBris]: exactly

[Nick McGowan]: oh it is okay it’s totally all

right i think there’s a lot to be

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: said about that where a lot of

people will kind of put on their face

[Nick McGowan]: because they have family coming over they

have all these things and it’s almost like

[Nick McGowan]: how some people will say you’re taking

christ out of christmas sort of deal like

[Nick McGowan]: what’s purpose to all of this not

[Matt LeBris]: m

[Nick McGowan]: just the holiday itself but what’s the

actual purpose and the way i look at

[Nick McGowan]: that sort of stuff is it’s time

to be with the people that you want

[Nick McGowan]: to be with and if you don’t

want to be with that family member that

[Nick McGowan]: should be your choice to go i

want to be with people i want to

[Nick McGowan]: be with and you just don’t happen

to be those people that’s all

[Matt LeBris]: exactly

[Nick McGowan]: right

[Matt LeBris]: exactly and i’ll tell you this i

felt really comfortable hearing other friends say the

[Matt LeBris]: same thing i viewed my friends as

family more than family as family and i

[Matt LeBris]: was like damn like there are other

people in the world that are like me

[Matt LeBris]: too

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: that feel that way really brought me

a sense of comfort i didn’t feel as

[Matt LeBris]: black sheep as i probably did beforehand

but you know nothing wrong with being the

[Matt LeBris]: black sheep the you know there’s that

a famous little quote that goes around on

[Matt LeBris]: the internet the black sheep usually turns

into the goat


[Matt LeBris]: but yeah yeah that’s it man

[Nick McGowan]: yeah i have a similar kind of

experience with family my mom was one of

[Nick McGowan]: seven she was the baby of one

of seven so i think my oldest aunt

[Nick McGowan]: is like four years der than my

grandparents on my dad side so the length

[Nick McGowan]: of time between my mom and all

[Matt LeBris]: m

[Nick McGowan]: of those other siblings and all the

kids that they had

[Matt LeBris]: m

[Nick McGowan]: and all that so there were times

where i was a black sheep because my

om was a biker chick basically like

who the fuck and her blue haired kid

[Nick McGowan]: with all these piercings and ship obviously


[Matt LeBris]: uh

[Nick McGowan]: have blue hair anymore but

[Matt LeBris]: h oh

[Nick McGowan]: back then it was black sheep and

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: i think that’s actually become a bit

of a super power because that allows you

[Nick McGowan]: to separ from you from the people

that you need to be around when you’re

[Nick McGowan]: younger because you’re just told grab your

ship we’re going to so and so’s house

[Nick McGowan]: and then as you kind of step

[Matt LeBris]: m

[Nick McGowan]: out of that allows you to look

at other people and look at friends as

[Nick McGowan]: being part of that family and understanding

that it just doesn’t have to be about

[Nick McGowan]: blood i’ve also experienced that some of

those blood relatives have actually become better friends

[Nick McGowan]: than actually family members and that good

because i keep them

[Matt LeBris]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: at that level there are certain people

that honestly i don’t ever expect to hear

[Nick McGowan]: from again if i do beautiful if

i don’t beautiful but i think

[Matt LeBris]: right

[Nick McGowan]: we get

[Matt LeBris]: right

[Nick McGowan]: to choose that and now

[Matt LeBris]: right

[Nick McGowan]: there’s certain and i think within the

northeast kind of area a lot of that

[Nick McGowan]: is very like family click y almost

was it like that in your area where

[Nick McGowan]: like all families that were close together

they all kind of lived and played together

[Nick McGowan]: and all that sort of ship

[Matt LeBris]: yeah you know like i said i

definitely got jealous at times where i would

[Matt LeBris]: see friends that i view as family

have great relationships with their family

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: from an area and

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: it’s not to say all my friends

are from this area but i come from

[Matt LeBris]: an area where this is a very

family oriented area like

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: super super family oriented area and you

know although obviously divorce rate is high no

[Matt LeBris]: matter where you go a lot of

my friends also didn’t deal with divorce you

[Matt LeBris]: know their parents are still together that

was another factor that came into play there’s

[Matt LeBris]: just so many factors so many family

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Matt LeBris]: dynamics and it was just yeah it’s

it’s crazy you know it’s so crazy at

[Matt LeBris]: times looking back and thinking about it

but yeah man it’s it’s it’s something that

[Matt LeBris]: needs to be navigated you know and


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: me personally what i like to do

now is just tell myself you’re going to

[Matt LeBris]: be the ideal parent that you wanted

you know that you wanted

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: right or you know you’re going to

be the ideal father or you’re going to

[Matt LeBris]: be the deal whatever and that’s just

the way i operate

[Nick McGowan]: you get to set your legacy goes

back to what you said

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: earlier which is huge

[Matt LeBris]: there you go

[Nick McGowan]: now and i know you and i

both do a lot of work on ourselves

[Nick McGowan]: and our days may look a little

different even as you know talk about journaling

[Nick McGowan]: or anything like that we can kind

of drive on to those different things but

[Nick McGowan]: what are some of the things that

you do when it comes to the deep

[Nick McGowan]: work that you found to really be

able to not only

[Matt LeBris]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: help you throughout the course of but

keep your ship together during the day

[Matt LeBris]: number one would be and we talked

about this number one is still

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: therapy i still do that

[Nick McGowan]: you got to talk

[Matt LeBris]: i’ve

[Nick McGowan]: about

[Matt LeBris]: had

[Nick McGowan]: it

[Matt LeBris]: to break up with my former therapist

but that’s at the top of the list

[Matt LeBris]: man i look forwar to that call

every week every

[Matt LeBris]: week i look forward to that call

i used to look forward to it more

[Matt LeBris]: because things are a little bit different

now but at first like dude going through

[Matt LeBris]: that discovery process and really unravelling things

was really import for me

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: um i can’t say like i’m some

productivity gooroo

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Matt LeBris]: or anything dude i’m honestly very free

flow like super

[Nick McGowan]: cool

[Matt LeBris]: super free flow like there’s as at

one p m if i’m able to i

[Matt LeBris]: might turn on my play station you

know like um for that’s just the way

[Matt LeBris]: i operate man i’ve realized having time

freedom after i started my own business i

[Matt LeBris]: realized that for me it really came

down to day by day as i mentioned

[Matt LeBris]: earlier

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: you know taking things day by day

is yeah do i have to do list

[Matt LeBris]: right next to me absolutely

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Matt LeBris]: and i’m still a pen and pad

type of guy

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: you know don’t get wrong i use

a sonnet to like i know i have

[Matt LeBris]: ship to get done but at the

end of the day man i’m very free

[Matt LeBris]: flow and i think as a creative

u’reapodcast that our creative so you could resonate

[Matt LeBris]: with this as well just in general

man like it really comes down to what

[Matt LeBris]: i’m feeling if i’m

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: not feeling like work i’m not going

to produce that

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: best work um you know like it

really comes even when it comes down to

[Matt LeBris]: ding i

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: haven’t read and i can’t tell you

how many weeks

[Matt LeBris]: you know like a

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Matt LeBris]: really it just i guess the best

answer in short nick is really understanding where

[Matt LeBris]: i am how i’m feeling and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: what i’m able to do in that

moment without

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: forcing myself i don’t think it’s a

discipline conversation i think it’s a reality conversation

[Matt LeBris]: more

[Matt LeBris]: than anything

[Nick McGowan]: oh man i want hundred percent agree

there at different times where i

[Matt LeBris]: m

[Nick McGowan]: argue in a nice way with people

when it talks about everybody is like well

[Nick McGowan]: what’s your five year

[Matt LeBris]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: plan what’s your ten year plan what

do you do throughout the day and certain

[Nick McGowan]: people just be kind of crazy with

it where i’ve gotten into doing some time

[Nick McGowan]: blocking in a sense of like

[Matt LeBris]: okay

[Nick McGowan]: these are the things that i want

to do throughout the day but then i

[Nick McGowan]: also allow myself to flow around it

go i don’t really want to suck and

[Nick McGowan]: do that right now because i feel

this thing is more important i’m going to

[Nick McGowan]: go do that and sometimes like you

said turn it on the play station i’ve

[Nick McGowan]: put my nerve cap back on i’ve

gotten back into sports ards so there are

[Nick McGowan]: times where i’ll get a new delivery

[Matt LeBris]: de

[Nick McGowan]: you’ve got to pull

[Matt LeBris]: dude

[Nick McGowan]: out some cards nice

[Matt LeBris]: i’m big in it i’m

[Nick McGowan]: good

[Matt LeBris]: big

[Nick McGowan]: ship man

[Matt LeBris]: on it bro i’m big on it


[Nick McGowan]: so i’ll get some you know new

black to mega box delivered and as soon

[Nick McGowan]: as amazon rings that bell and i’m

like i got to do this thing i’ll

[Nick McGowan]: sometimes look at it as like i’ll

play a game with myself and i was

[Nick McGowan]: talking to a buddy about this yesterday

where he’s like i’m having a hard time

[Nick McGowan]: i need to throw and do this

thing but it’s just a big hairy scary

onster with the fun you know and

i’m like well if you have a thing

[Nick McGowan]: that you want to get to like

with him it was playing drums nd he’s

[Nick McGowan]: like i haven’t played drums in a

couple of weeks like man you got to

[Nick McGowan]: set that up as a reward you

get yourself to the point go and i’m

[Nick McGowan]: going to do this thing to go

make that reward and sort of play a

[Nick McGowan]: game with it but allow yourself some

grace where if you’re like look i’m just

[Nick McGowan]: not feeling it right now ask yourself

why and at least understand

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: what it is if you’re like you

know well realistically i need to just step

[Nick McGowan]: away for a couple of minutes then

go fuck and step away for a couple

[Nick McGowan]: of minutes i think some people just

get into this habit where they’re like i

[Nick McGowan]: have to do this thing at nine

o’clock and then at nine fifteen have to

[Nick McGowan]: do this and nine twenty three i

got to do this and if it doesn’t

[Nick McGowan]: happen you’re just setting yourself up for

failure like there are times where i’ve got

y list

[Matt LeBris]: m

[Nick McGowan]: i got the ship that needs to

get done for the day those are the

[Nick McGowan]: big chunks of things where i’m like

this needs to done but you know at

[Nick McGowan]: the end of the day we’re not

fucking saving lives your delivering babies so who

[Nick McGowan]: could it be okay

[Matt LeBris]: exactly

[Nick McGowan]: like step

[Matt LeBris]: exactly

[Nick McGowan]: away for a minute if you need

to so man i appreciate you saying tha

[Nick McGowan]: you’re not some productivity guru and feed

me some bullshit uh because i really don’t

[Nick McGowan]: think that people are like that unless

that is exactly how they are and how

[Nick McGowan]: i believe that how you do anything

is how you do everything and if you’re

[Nick McGowan]: flow with things you should use that

and you brought it up like being creative

an it’s hard to really get a

creative to lock into a time schedule of

[Nick McGowan]: something because they’re like but i can

think of all these different things and go

[Nick McGowan]: through all that so how do you

kind of play that game with yourself to

[Nick McGowan]: be able to knock the ship out

and then allow yourself those rewards or do

[Nick McGowan]: you not do that

[Matt LeBris]: yeah i think you know


[Matt LeBris]: especially when it comes down to being

creative i’ll give you an example you know

[Matt LeBris]: when i have to record an intro

or an outro for my podcast do there

[Matt LeBris]: have been times that’s taken me an

hour to do that for one episode

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: shouldn’t be taking an hour you know

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Matt LeBris]: the intros three minutes

[Matt LeBris]: the outros two minutes should not take

an hour

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Matt LeBris]: and i realized i say to myself

you know what

[Matt LeBris]: it’s because you’re just not in that


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: and that’s when i really started to

become aware of it and i would get

[Matt LeBris]: frustrated if i didn’t nail it man

i would get frustrated so i said to

[Matt LeBris]: myself all right well what can you

do you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: can’t force yourself to get into your

creative genius i don’t think that’s possible i

[Matt LeBris]: think it happens when it happens

[Matt LeBris]: um you know there are some things

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Matt LeBris]: that you might be able to do

for instance i just bought a standing desk

[Matt LeBris]: so like where i’m sitting now like

i could raise it up or i

[Matt LeBris]: think those things can potentially there you


[Nick McGowan]: h

[Matt LeBris]: i think those things can

[Matt LeBris]: help potentially

[Matt LeBris]: without a doubt i don’t know if

there’s any research or science behind that whatsoever

[Matt LeBris]: but for me personally i definitely see

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: my productivity spike with that um but

what i do to ensure that i’m able

[Matt LeBris]: to have enough time is plan ahead

you know

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: not live in the future but you

know especially when it comes down to the

[Matt LeBris]: creative stuff like if i know i

need to record

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: an intro or an outdo for an

episode i’m not putting my back up against

[Matt LeBris]: the wall to become creative and like

shoot out some fire as intro you know

[Matt LeBris]: like because

[Matt LeBris]: what happens

[Matt LeBris]: if that doesn’t happen

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: you know so

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Matt LeBris]: i’m just ahead of the game with

that type of stuff so maybe i am

[Matt LeBris]: a bit of a plan or two

in then but that’s really you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: know no science behind it just

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Matt LeBris]: being on top of it bottom line

being on top of it

[Nick McGowan]: that’s kind of being smart about it

somebody said a while ago and i don’t

[Nick McGowan]: know who to attribute this to so

i’ll just take it and use it but

[Nick McGowan]: being pro actively lazy once i heard

that i was like holy

[Matt LeBris]: m

[Nick McGowan]: shit i am totally pro actively lazy

because i think a future

[Matt LeBris]: uh

[Nick McGowan]: nick like future

[Matt LeBris]: uh

[Nick McGowan]: nick

[Matt LeBris]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: is going to be real fucking pissed

at me about this so how do i

[Nick McGowan]: be pro actively lazy do some of

the little work now and get myself set

[Nick McGowan]: up where later on you can just

pick up the ball maybe it’s at seventy

[Nick McGowan]: percent finished instead of starting

[Matt LeBris]: m

[Nick McGowan]: from zero and just being able to

kind of move along from that but even

[Nick McGowan]: within that i still think that you

can have that flexibility throughout your day and

[Nick McGowan]: i truly believe that’s freedom that’s where

success comes into play my days look the

[Nick McGowan]: way that i want them to look

and there are certain times where ship pops

[Nick McGowan]: up just like your days you know

you get pulled into a meeting one of

[Nick McGowan]: your team members need something somebody pulls

you in this way in that way but

[Nick McGowan]: you can work through that stuff and

still understand straight up we’re not delivering babies

[Nick McGowan]: we’re not saving lives here and allowing

yourself that grace so you seem like the

[Nick McGowan]: type that you also probably your own

biggest critic and you probably over the course

[Nick McGowan]: of time have

[Matt LeBris]: a hundred

[Nick McGowan]: kicked

[Matt LeBris]: percent

[Nick McGowan]: your own ass so many times so

how do you find and give yourself grace

[Nick McGowan]: because there are people listen to to

show that are similar where they’re like funk

an i told myself going to do

this and i didn’t so how do you

[Nick McGowan]: calm that little kid down and go


[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: the fuck up it’ll be all right

[Matt LeBris]: yeah i don’t i

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Matt LeBris]: can’t lie to you nick i don’t

[Nick McGowan]: good

[Matt LeBris]: i’m

[Matt LeBris]: still my biggest

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: critic man i’m still my biggest critic

sometimes what it really takes for me to

[Matt LeBris]: realize that is when i’m consulting it

a mentor or when i’m consulting with

[Matt LeBris]: a friend and i’m elaborating on a

story and they’re like dude like things sounded

[Matt LeBris]: like they went great while your being

so hard on yourself sometimes

[Matt LeBris]: it takes that for me to even

recognize that i’m doing that

[Matt LeBris]: um ultimately i can tell you from

a psychological perspective what that really stems from

[Matt LeBris]: is me feeling like i needed to

perform but not only perform but achieve to

[Matt LeBris]: ceive attention from my mother so if

i’m not achieving per se then i’m kind

[Matt LeBris]: of not feeling like i’m you know

getting that attention

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: and same thing that just stuck with

me and i think i think it’s a

[Matt LeBris]: good thing to an extent like it’s

healthy to an extent

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Matt LeBris]: it could become very

[Nick McGowan]: n b

[Matt LeBris]: unhealthy if you let it

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: yeah it could be healthy i actually

saw a video the other day it was

[Matt LeBris]: like research back the top three things

that the wealthiest people in the world have

[Matt LeBris]: from a psychological perspective number

[Matt LeBris]: one was exactly what we’re talking about

a crazy inner critic like inner critic that

[Matt LeBris]: just won’t shut up not perfectionism but

just like you know an inner critic that’s

[Matt LeBris]: hounding you

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: the second thing was having the um

having the belief that you’ll be able to

[Matt LeBris]: achieve what you need to achieve regardless

of that inner critic and regardless of whatever

[Matt LeBris]: i forget what

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: the third thing is but when i

said i actually didn’t i don’t think have

[Matt LeBris]: the third thing which is probably why

i forgot

[Nick McGowan]: that’s why

[Matt LeBris]: what

[Nick McGowan]: you omitted

[Matt LeBris]: it is

[Nick McGowan]: it

[Matt LeBris]: but

[Matt LeBris]: that’s it we only need those two

[Nick McGowan]: that’s good

[Matt LeBris]: but yeah man i’ve really know for

me personally dude i really come down to

[Matt LeBris]: really talking with people about it to

kind of make myself aware

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: because i’m still working on that man


[Nick McGowan]: yah

[Matt LeBris]: it’s still a work in progress

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Matt LeBris]: without a doubt

[Nick McGowan]: yeah that’s a beautiful thing that i

mean again it goes back to talking about

[Nick McGowan]: it and to the listeners just talk

about it talk to somebody that you’re close

[Nick McGowan]: to talk to somebody you’re not close

to just start talking about it it can

[Nick McGowan]: also be super helpful and i’m sure

you experience is talking with yourself about certain

[Nick McGowan]: things out

[Matt LeBris]: m

[Nick McGowan]: loud because as you say things out

loud hear them and interpret them different it’s

[Nick McGowan]: just like when you talk to somebody

and you start to explain something then you

[Nick McGowan]: go what the fuck am i talking

about it doesn’t

[Matt LeBris]: uh

[Nick McGowan]: really make any sense or you go

oh my god yeah that makes

[Matt LeBris]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: even more sense now because it came

out and went back into your ears so

[Nick McGowan]: talking to somebody or talking to yourself

but getting it out and being able to

[Nick McGowan]: talk through that i think of here

was a book that i read years and

[Nick McGowan]: years ago i don’t know you probably

can’t say it it’s behind the mind set

[Nick McGowan]: book that’s back here it’s called the

q b q the question behind the question

[Matt LeBris]: okay

[Nick McGowan]: so if you think of asking questions

behind the question that you had why do

[Nick McGowan]: i feel this way right now well

because of this well why because of that

[Nick McGowan]: almost like a little kid you know

like one of those annoying little kids are

[Nick McGowan]: like but why but why but why

why but why

[Matt LeBris]: uh

[Nick McGowan]: you’re like because

[Matt LeBris]: h

[Nick McGowan]: if you don’t stop fucking

[Matt LeBris]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: asking me i’m going to kill you


[Matt LeBris]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: do that to yourself like why am

i doing this right now like even you

[Nick McGowan]: think you and i as we go

through and kind of flow through the day

[Nick McGowan]: why am i not feeling this right

now because you’re probably feeling something else a

[Nick McGowan]: little bit more and is it a

part of that thing or is it something

[Nick McGowan]: completely different and asking those questions and

going through it you and i really love

[Nick McGowan]: the idea of therapy coaching i just

talking through this but really think about it

[Nick McGowan]: at the core of it it’s just

somebody that’s asking solid fucking questions

[Matt LeBris]: that’s it

[Nick McGowan]: i’ve literally

[Matt LeBris]: that’s

[Nick McGowan]: told

[Matt LeBris]: it

y therapist i’m here because your job

has asked me questions and i’m stuck in

[Nick McGowan]: these four walls so i can’t just

run fucking past you so we can talk

[Nick McGowan]: about this and actually go through all

of these things because sometimes you really need

[Nick McGowan]: to unpack the stuff that it’s super

difficult for you to be able to get

[Nick McGowan]: through so matt and i appreciate you

being on i appreciate you being fucking honest

[Nick McGowan]: and vulnerable right from the start so

hey man can you give us some sort

[Nick McGowan]: of advice people that

[Matt LeBris]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: are on their path towards self mastery

what sort of advice would you give them

[Matt LeBris]: something that i’m still trying to apply

every day something that i learned from an

[Matt LeBris]: individual named john gordon i’m not sure

if you’re familiar with him i really really

[Matt LeBris]: great guy author many many times over

umpodcasthos speaker all around the world great great

[Matt LeBris]: guy john gordon he changed my life

with three letters those three letters are e

[Matt LeBris]: p and o in fact it’s an

equation e plus p equals o and what

[Matt LeBris]: that stands for is the events plus

the perspective equals the outcome

[Matt LeBris]: so we’re all going to have our

turbo so we’re all going to go through

[Matt LeBris]: our storms um the thing is about

that equation the only thing that we can

[Matt LeBris]: actually control is how we perceive things

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: we can’t control every event that takes

place in our

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: life is this something still trying to

know really work onto this them getting the

[Matt LeBris]: chills saying that the hair on my

arm is standing

[Matt LeBris]: up it’s not easy we can’t control

every event i can’t put a number or

[Matt LeBris]: statistics to how many events we can

control it’s such a crazy variable to say

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: the least and it’s not easy to

control our ception when ship’s hitting the fan

[Matt LeBris]: it’s not

[Matt LeBris]: it’s a lot easier three months one

year five years ten years down the road

[Matt LeBris]: and you could look back

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt LeBris]: and you could be like you know

what at needed to happen that was working

[Matt LeBris]: for me the universe was

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt LeBris]: on my side there i want to

leave people with that because that’s what i’m

[Matt LeBris]: actually in the thick of right now

i’m in the thick of that understanding that

[Matt LeBris]: i can’t control every event that takes

place the only thing i can control is

[Matt LeBris]: the perspective i to the table and

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Matt LeBris]: that perspective

[Matt LeBris]: at times nick i’ll tell you this

year in particular it’s been a cluster funk

[Matt LeBris]: of a year man there have

[Matt LeBris]: been you now really that’s why i’m

taking it day by day to m the

[Matt LeBris]: events warren always controllable how i’ll perceive

it will definitely change in the future but

[Matt LeBris]: i’ll tell you this i had days

this year where i was just like what

[Matt LeBris]: the fuck is happening victim

[Matt LeBris]: i’m a victim i’m a victim

[Matt LeBris]: but bottom line e plus p equals

events plus perspective equals the outcome

[Nick McGowan]: and again thank you for being vulnerable

and honest about that i know it’s some

[Nick McGowan]: tough ship to go through

[Matt LeBris]: my

[Nick McGowan]: and to be able to

[Matt LeBris]: ye

[Nick McGowan]: be in the moment in those times

stacks up from all the other moments that

[Nick McGowan]: happened before that so you can only

be as good as you are in that

oment based on the ship that you’ve

done and if you perpetually looked at that

[Nick McGowan]: ship it’s terrible then you’re probably gonna

be terrible in that spot so it sounds

[Nick McGowan]: like you’re in

[Matt LeBris]: m

[Nick McGowan]: that spot when you get into those

tough spots it’s better than it would have

[Nick McGowan]: been six months ago or a year

ago even at things are really different but

[Nick McGowan]: hey mat future matt is going to

really appreciate that you know

[Matt LeBris]: absolutely man absolutely brother and nick i

just want to share this

[Matt LeBris]: with you you are absolutely fantastic at

what you do i’ve been on many many

[Matt LeBris]: podcasts before this was absolutely incredible i

genuinely just want to share gra titude for

[Matt LeBris]: the way that you are able to

help your audience by asking the questions that

[Matt LeBris]: you asked so i wanted to make

sure that i was sharing that with you

[Matt LeBris]: before we stopped this recording i think

that’s really important to say

[Nick McGowan]: and i appreciate that look i really

think that the major crust this this whole

[Nick McGowan]: show is not about any one specific

but that one specific person that’s listening at

[Nick McGowan]: that time that needs this stuff um

and it’s about

[Matt LeBris]: m

[Nick McGowan]: talking about this ship

[Matt LeBris]: m

[Nick McGowan]: so i appreciate you man appreciate the

kind words and hey where can people find

[Nick McGowan]: you and where can they connect with


[Matt LeBris]: absolutely i mean i’m across the board

on social i probably hang out most on

[Matt LeBris]: instagram my instagram handles just my first

name m a t t underscore l e

[Matt LeBris]: b r i s that’s where i’m

hang at the most i host a podcast

[Matt LeBris]: just like nick does a podcast that

i’ve ran for about four years now which

[Matt LeBris]: is crazy to even think

[Nick McGowan]: wow

[Matt LeBris]: top one percent van globally we’ve hosted

some incredible people like grant or done patrick

[Matt LeBris]: david mill robins gabby burnsteangenna coucher the

list goes on really really fun have a

[Matt LeBris]: great time doing it but those are

really the places i’m hanging out the most

[Matt LeBris]: to be honest

[Nick McGowan]: awesome and all that stuff is going

to be in the show notes again thank

[Nick McGowan]: you so much for being on the

show today i appreciate your time

[Matt LeBris]: thank you for the opportunity brother i

appreciate it i thank you for the questions

[Matt LeBris]: as well

[Nick McGowan]: pleasure

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