How To Transform Your Life After A Life-Changing Loss – Ep.041 – Debra Driscoll

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Episode summary:​ Debra Driscoll helps people in their spiritual development and healing by using magic. This magic is something we all have but may not know how to use it.

She helps people expand and heal even with the words we use and the things we look at. We are the creator of our reality and we have the magic to make it a good experience or a bad experience.

Debra walks us through how we can tap into our own magic to start our own healing process.

Guest Name & Bio: DEBRA DRISCOLL. Magic Weaver, Storyteller, Spiritual Teacher and the creator of BIG LIFE MAGIC Debra has practiced and taught spiritual development and healing practices for over twenty-five years and takes great delight in activating magic in others.

Her expertise; Reiki Master, TCM Practitioner, Meditation and Intuition Teacher, Grief Guide, Oracle and Energy Reader, and Master Storyteller.

Debra is the author of “A Series of Surrender ~ A Memoir of Grief.” In 2022, Debra will be writing and crafting her second book, “Surrendering to Magic”.

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[Nick McGowan]: Debra, welcome to the show. How are you doing today?

[Debra Driscoll]: I’m well thank you thank you so great to be here

[Nick McGowan]: yeah i’m glad that you’re here thank

you for reaching out i’m excited to get

[Nick McGowan]: into what seems like a bit of

a crazy story that has a little bit of twist and

you know i won’t get into that get

[Nick McGowan]: into that so why don’t

[Debra Driscoll]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: you give us a little bit of

context here what do you do for living

[Nick McGowan]: and what’s one thing that most people

don’t know about you that’s maybe kind of

[Nick McGowan]: odd or bizarre

[Debra Driscoll]: hey well as as a what do

i do every day is i’m a magic

[Debra Driscoll]: weaver and a grief guide which not

everyone understands how you can be both of

[Debra Driscoll]: those things at the same time work

with magic and people’s spiritual practice and also

[Debra Driscoll]: hold space for grief yes i do


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: and one thing that people usually don’t

know about me because it doesn’t come up

[Debra Driscoll]: in conversation a lot when i was

young and people would ask me what do

[Debra Driscoll]: you want to be when you grow


[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Debra Driscoll]: i would say i want to be

an opera singer

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: i wanted

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Debra Driscoll]: to be an opera singer because everyone

kept telling me i was too loud i

[Debra Driscoll]: was a chubby kid who had the

curves and i was told all the time

[Debra Driscoll]: that i was loud and so i

looked out into the world and i thought

[Debra Driscoll]: where can you be loud and chubby

but you’re celebrated i thought

[Nick McGowan]: paferatne

[Debra Driscoll]: that’s opera that’s opera singers

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: so i decided i wanted to be

an opera singer i held on to that

[Debra Driscoll]: for years

[Nick McGowan]: h so did you plan any operas

did you get

[Debra Driscoll]: no

[Nick McGowan]: anywhere with

[Debra Driscoll]: so

[Nick McGowan]: it did

[Debra Driscoll]: this

[Nick McGowan]: you

[Debra Driscoll]: is

[Nick McGowan]: just

[Debra Driscoll]: the

[Nick McGowan]: do lessons

[Debra Driscoll]: irony nick i can’t sing i really


[Nick McGowan]: you

[Debra Driscoll]: say

[Nick McGowan]: just looked the part

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah i was like you know like

i was three four five at the time

[Debra Driscoll]: and it was like

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Debra Driscoll]: that’s what i could see in the

world that could be celebrated if you had

[Debra Driscoll]: curbs and you allowed m

[Nick McGowan]: isn’t that interesting how you catch on

to that stuff where you’re like well i

[Nick McGowan]: don’t know exactly what to do but

i’ve seen these things that maybe this

[Debra Driscoll]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: fits i think that’s a start to

where a lot of kids start to kind

[Nick McGowan]: of figure out the thing that they

like they don’t like or where some of

[Nick McGowan]: them kind of get stuck where their

parents are like man i did this thing

[Nick McGowan]: you should do it too like i

played baseball so usual play baseball as well

[Nick McGowan]: do you feel like you were kind

of moved into that direction at all or

[Nick McGowan]: did you have a family that was

like yeah whatever you’re just allowed

[Debra Driscoll]: we we were allowed to a point

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Debra Driscoll]: my my father colin joseph he’s been

passed for many years now but he was

[Debra Driscoll]: a man who loved to learn he

had seven degrees two

[Nick McGowan]: who

[Debra Driscoll]: of them doctor its when he got

his first doctors in australia he was the

[Debra Driscoll]: youngest person to get a doctor in

australia at the time

[Nick McGowan]: uh uh

[Debra Driscoll]: and so he had seven children sorry

he had seven degrees and my mother raised

[Debra Driscoll]: seven children and so we could be

whatever we wanted to be as long as

[Debra Driscoll]: we were going to go to university

education was big in my family it was

[Debra Driscoll]: it was something that we didn’t seem

to have much of a choice about it

[Debra Driscoll]: was something that we were going to

commit to because

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: was a part of the culture of

my family was learning learning learning and you

[Debra Driscoll]: could

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: be whatever you wanted to be as

long as that was attached to a university

[Debra Driscoll]: degree

[Nick McGowan]: interesting

[Debra Driscoll]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: so there was i mean how do

you get away from that and you can’t

[Nick McGowan]: be like no dad i’m not going

to go i know you’ve gone for years

[Nick McGowan]: and years and you have seven degrees

but did you end up going to university

[Nick McGowan]: or what did

[Debra Driscoll]: i

[Nick McGowan]: that

[Debra Driscoll]: did

[Nick McGowan]: look like

[Debra Driscoll]: i did and what i chose to

do at university i think gave my

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: father some worry some

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: moments of like why is she choosing

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: that was i am very like cademically

smart person all of my teachers

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: wanted me to

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: do all of the chemistry and the

high levels of mats and i wasn’t interested

[Debra Driscoll]: in that

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: i was interested in humanities

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: and history and the arts and so

the university degree that i went to was

[Debra Driscoll]: to study theater and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: you know my dad just kind of

swallowed and said well it’s a degree

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Debra Driscoll]: and he really wished that i went

into science

[Nick McGowan]: huh

[Debra Driscoll]: or you know some other kind of

i or kind of straight laced university

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: a degree pathway but i had the

experience of growing up that i was told

[Debra Driscoll]: often r smart are smart you are

smart and so there’s a beauty in that

[Debra Driscoll]: in having that recognized in me but

what i also had

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Debra Driscoll]: an experience of when i was

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: growing up and i was like yeah

but i’m also talented and i’m also intuitive

[Debra Driscoll]: and i’m also fun like can i

be those things as well is why

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: i think as a teen ager i

you know did the classic teen age where

[Debra Driscoll]: you’re going to tell me to go

left so i’m going to go skipping right

[Debra Driscoll]: and

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: you just watch me skip right

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: it’s no you do about

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: it and that’s what got me into

theater and other humanities and you know exploring

[Debra Driscoll]: different things like spirituality

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: things that weren’t biology and you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: know maths level three

[Nick McGowan]: so let’s take a little bit of

a jump how did you go from all

[Nick McGowan]: of that to what you’re doing today

[Debra Driscoll]: what i’m doing today the magic weaver

part has always been a part of me

[Debra Driscoll]: the grief guide part is something that

i believe came to find me

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: in that i never put on a

vision board or had a conversation with somebody

[Debra Driscoll]: in my life thinking i think i’m

going to be a grief guide i think

[Debra Driscoll]: that would be a great job wasn’t


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: that i aspired to doing my experience

of life is that i’ve had a series

[Debra Driscoll]: of deaths that have been very close

to me and have

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: shaped my heart

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: and shaped my spiritual practice and space

shape who i am as a human and

[Debra Driscoll]: i

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: got to a point in my own

journey where i realized i have learned a

[Debra Driscoll]: lot and i could be a service

to others haven’t been

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: on this journey that i’ve been on

need help in navigating the great journey and

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: so i stepped up to the plate

and i’m telling you i was the opera

[Debra Driscoll]: singer in me was shocked

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Debra Driscoll]: i was now a grief guide as

well as being somebody who talks about magic

[Debra Driscoll]: and spiritual practice and i have found

great beauty in being a great guide and

[Debra Driscoll]: supporting people a delight in being a

magic weaver and work that i do i

[Debra Driscoll]: do see how they weave together

[Nick McGowan]: so talk to us a bit more

about the magic weaver and

[Debra Driscoll]: m

[Nick McGowan]: what that actually entails um

[Debra Driscoll]: m

[Nick McGowan]: and let’s tie that into mind set

and how that actually matters for for what

[Nick McGowan]: you’re doing

[Debra Driscoll]: so for me i i began to

work with this

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: i

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: like phrasing around calling myself a magic

weaver because i found it to be inclusive

[Debra Driscoll]: of all the ways that i turn

up in my magic and also to be

[Debra Driscoll]: blunt about it any time i introduced

myself as a witch people had questions about

[Debra Driscoll]: that and i found that i was

explaining myself as a witch and why i

[Debra Driscoll]: said i’m a witch more than actually

talking about the magic and so i just

[Debra Driscoll]: went well it’s just actually a title

i can let go of needing to introduce

[Debra Driscoll]: myself as a witch and just actually

say i work in magic i help weave

[Debra Driscoll]: magic and i ended up with magic

and we because magic i believe is also

[Debra Driscoll]: inclusive like people can decide for themselves

what their magic is for

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: some people you know their magic

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: is actually connecting to nature some people

their magic is connecting to angels for some

[Debra Driscoll]: people their magic

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: is actually around prayer and they connection

to a higher source that they may call

[Debra Driscoll]: god or any other name and so

i you know i believe that all have

[Debra Driscoll]: magic and you get to decide what

your magic is

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: but to me magic is piece of

source energy the piece of the universe tis

[Debra Driscoll]: us i believe

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: we’re all spiritual beings having an earth

bound experience and

[Nick McGowan]: yep

[Debra Driscoll]: that spiritual part of us is a

part of the universe it’s a part of

[Debra Driscoll]: source energy and it’s our magic we


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: to use it in whatever

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Debra Driscoll]: way that we want we get to

weave it in whatever way that we want

[Debra Driscoll]: and a huge part of that is

how we work with our mind

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: the mind

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Debra Driscoll]: set that we have like one of

my favorite quotes estein like i have a

[Debra Driscoll]: little crash on einstein

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: and einstein says one of the most

important questions that humans need to ask themselves

[Debra Driscoll]: is do they live in a hostile

or friendly environment

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: and i believe that comes back to

mind set

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: how are you going to frame your

experience how are you going to frame the

[Debra Driscoll]: experience of the people or the situation

that you’re having and is is it friendly

[Debra Driscoll]: or hostile is the situation

[Nick McGowan]: h m

[Debra Driscoll]: happening to you or for you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: is it something that’s going to destroy

you or is it something that’s going to

[Debra Driscoll]: shape you like that their choices and

as humans we get to we get to

[Debra Driscoll]: decide our free will is strong our

minds are strong

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: and we get to decide

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: and for me huge part of the

work i do in magic is helping people

[Debra Driscoll]: with shifting their mind set

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: and then beyond

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: shifting the mind set shifting actions or

behaviors or patterns or beliefs that they have

[Debra Driscoll]: connected to the neuro pathways

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: you know all of the amazing and

also all of the not so amazing sometimes

[Debra Driscoll]: destructive thoughts

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: humans

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: and have now amazing brains

[Nick McGowan]: i had a conversation with somebody recently

i think it might have ben an episode

[Nick McGowan]: at may have been a client but

we were talking about that negative self talk

[Nick McGowan]: and the conversation that you have with

your own self and you’re like if you

[Nick McGowan]: really think about it like if that

was a person that was outside of you

[Nick McGowan]: you would have kicked their ass you

would have gotten restraining orders you would have

[Nick McGowan]: done whatever you could because the ship

that that brain talks to you at times

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Debra Driscoll]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: i find it interestin how you kind

of use that along with the magic and

[Nick McGowan]: the magic of

[Debra Driscoll]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: what is your what are your talents

what are the things that are inside that

[Nick McGowan]: can help kind of bring things out

of you and

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: i think there are a lot of

people that don’t really understand the amount of

[Nick McGowan]: power that they have inside of themselves

and the super power that’s within their skull

[Nick McGowan]: that allows them to do these

[Debra Driscoll]: his

[Nick McGowan]: things so how do you help

[Debra Driscoll]: yes

[Nick McGowan]: your clients actually get to that precipice

of understanding that all right maybe i’ve got

[Nick McGowan]: more power inside and then step

[Debra Driscoll]: m

[Nick McGowan]: through that

[Debra Driscoll]: m that’s such a delicious question yeah

so one of the things that i do

[Debra Driscoll]: in my community and i repeat it

often is i say you are the magic

[Debra Driscoll]: the magic is not outside you you’re

not working with me because i’m magical and

[Debra Driscoll]: i’m going to heal you or i’m

going to help you or i’m going to

[Debra Driscoll]: take all the pain away that’s not

how this works i’m a magical guide your

[Debra Driscoll]: grief guide and whether it’s grief or

another aspect of human experience that we’re working

[Debra Driscoll]: through it’s an experience that you have

choices along the whole way and one of

[Debra Driscoll]: the first choices you have is am

i going to anchor into my magic am

[Debra Driscoll]: i actually going to believe for a

moment that i am magical and that i

[Debra Driscoll]: have some choice i’m reminding people all

the time you are the magic anchor into

[Debra Driscoll]: your magic choose your own adventure in

this life you get

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: to choose

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: i loved

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: those books as a kid that choose

your own adventure books

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: and then the other thing that i

teach around your words are your wand if

[Debra Driscoll]: we’re working in the idea of magic

and you know working with all the metaphors

[Debra Driscoll]: that no magic

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: brings one is the magic wand and

i believe our strongest most amazing medical one

[Debra Driscoll]: that we all have is our words

even people who are non verbal they may

[Debra Driscoll]: have they have language in different ways

that they bring it across

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: so i say to people your words

are your wand so if you’re saying to

[Debra Driscoll]: me i’m tired all the time saying

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: okay

[Nick McGowan]: you’re

[Debra Driscoll]: well

[Nick McGowan]: tired

[Debra Driscoll]: on

[Nick McGowan]: all

[Debra Driscoll]: the

[Nick McGowan]: the time

[Debra Driscoll]: end of your wand there is you’re

tired all the time you’re affirming

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Debra Driscoll]: that you’re affirming that you’re affirming

[Nick McGowan]: ah

[Debra Driscoll]: that

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: so what do you actually want like

i want to rebuild my energy use one

[Debra Driscoll]: for that every day in every way

i will rebuild

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: my energy and just like re framing

the words that people are saying and telling

[Debra Driscoll]: them going to have to repeat that


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: our minds are strong and the neuro

pathways get established quickly and then they become

[Debra Driscoll]: highways there’s semi trailers going down the

highways and

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: where you want to go is you

know the little forest path to the side

[Debra Driscoll]: of the highway and it’s hard to

find sometimes

[Nick McGowan]: especially

[Debra Driscoll]: and so

[Nick McGowan]: if

[Debra Driscoll]: needing

[Nick McGowan]: they’ve been driving

[Debra Driscoll]: to be

[Nick McGowan]: that highway

[Debra Driscoll]: have you been driving the highway and

you know there’s so much around our words

[Debra Driscoll]: and our minds that we say to

ourselves or we say loud or we allow

[Debra Driscoll]: others

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: to say to us that week don’t

even realize or on repeat

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: until someone is reflecting it back to


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: the other thing about our mind is

like we see our minds in our little

[Debra Driscoll]: brain which is our mental body our

brain which is where a lot of the

[Debra Driscoll]: process is happening but when you’re working

in magic you’re working with a whole person

[Debra Driscoll]: made our working with their whole oricfield

their whole spirit and the fourth layer of

[Debra Driscoll]: your orig field is our mental body

in your mental body is where all those

[Debra Driscoll]: beliefs and the things you were told

as a kid like for me

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: in my mental body is you’re too


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: so i get a choice around my

magic do i want to keep that in

[Debra Driscoll]: my mental body or do i want

to work through clearing that and letting that

[Debra Driscoll]: mind set go and just like finding

the joy in yeah i’m loud which means

[Debra Driscoll]: i can walk into a room and

facilitate a hundred people and everybody can hear

[Debra Driscoll]: me look

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: how magical i am rather than i’m

too loud i should be quieted checking myself

[Debra Driscoll]: all the time around am i too


[Nick McGowan]: m m

[Debra Driscoll]: so so much of it is like

changing your words words as you want but

[Debra Driscoll]: then also clearing thoughts that aren’t working

for you some of them

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Debra Driscoll]: we didn’t even come up with them

some of the other people gave to us

[Debra Driscoll]: and then it just stuck

[Nick McGowan]: ye

[Debra Driscoll]: created

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: a highway and created some energy in

our mental body and then suddenly so we

[Debra Driscoll]: believe we are true

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: we’re magical

[Nick McGowan]: yeah so how do you also help

find that that magic and use the talance

[Nick McGowan]: that’s within side of them and kind

of have that balance between owning it just

[Debra Driscoll]: m

[Nick McGowan]: not being fucking cocky about it and

not being significant

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: driven so how do you

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: help them with that balance

[Debra Driscoll]: it’s like you know you go back

into check if you are

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: actually anchored into your magic you are

working in the highest good i say in

[Debra Driscoll]: the magical playground there are no winners

or losers there’s no finish line there’s no

[Debra Driscoll]: gold star there’s no like i’m going

to be better than the other person

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: and we all have a place play

in the playground and also as soon as

[Debra Driscoll]: you step into that playground why are

you there are you there to be a

[Debra Driscoll]: hostile player or a friendly player and

it’s like own your own magic anchor into

[Debra Driscoll]: your

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: own magic it’s your process and if

you if your shadow or your ego comes

[Debra Driscoll]: to play just say well hello you’re

on the playground i see you dribble the

[Debra Driscoll]: ball for a while and see what

you’ve got to say

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: like i don’t

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: i don’t invite people to deny or

push away any part of their experience

[Nick McGowan]: good

[Debra Driscoll]: i do advise people be careful you

don’t want to get stuck

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: playing in the corner with the shadow

because that’s actually not very

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: fun you could be playing with possibility

over by the hoops

[Nick McGowan]: yeah that’s still doing the deep work

though you know it’s

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: almost like the difference between being in

the movie and just watching the movie and

[Nick McGowan]: processing

[Debra Driscoll]: s

[Nick McGowan]: from that so

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: without giving some of the secret sauce

what sort of advice

[Debra Driscoll]: m

[Nick McGowan]: would you give for some of the

people that are listening to be able to

[Nick McGowan]: work with some of that and to

be able to step into their playground but

[Nick McGowan]: also be mindful of the shadow and

the potential that’s there

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah i always like vise people yes

anchor into your own magic which means i

[Debra Driscoll]: i share your breath is your spirit

so as soon as we breathe in your

[Debra Driscoll]: anchoring in your spirit so you can

do that in every beat to be in

[Debra Driscoll]: present moment

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: to anchor into your own and then

follow know what you feel if you’re

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: in the playground and something doesn’t feel

right stop breathe check it like we know

[Debra Driscoll]: when we’re moving towards judgment we know

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: when ego is running the show and

we’re just like

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: running behind we know if we stop

breathing check in it’s like

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: you know just like you don’t need

somebody else be your safety monitor on the

[Debra Driscoll]: magical playground you know

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: if you’re going to be honest with

yourself and stop pause breathe check in for

[Debra Driscoll]: a minute i doesn’t mean that everything

is going to be pleasant some of the

[Debra Driscoll]: activities and the magical playground can actually

be difficult challenging exquisitely painful but they’re all

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: part of

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: our human experience they’re all part of

us expanding our magic and we don’t want

[Debra Driscoll]: to deny those parts either just want

to make sure that while we’re working with

[Debra Driscoll]: and working through we feel supported feel

anchored into our own magic and we know

[Debra Driscoll]: the purpose of why we’re doing this

or if it feels like something outside you

[Debra Driscoll]: that is happening you didn’t ask for

of tune in to but what is here

[Debra Driscoll]: for me to learn or what is

here for me to expand

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: in myself you know i believe that

we all know i believe we are all

[Debra Driscoll]: our greatest healer and teacher we have

it all within us i get permission to

[Debra Driscoll]: follow your lead choose your

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: own adventure and patient with yourself because

if you haven’t done that for years and

[Debra Driscoll]: years and years if life told you

that you weren’t allowed to do that and

[Debra Driscoll]: you had to follow the parent or

the teacher or the boss society or or

[Debra Driscoll]: whatever it else might be it’s going

to take a while to get jiggy with

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: i can anchor into my own magic

and i can know feels good this doesn’t

[Debra Driscoll]: feel good

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: s s learning and it still doesn’t

feel good but i’m in to stare with

[Debra Driscoll]: the learning you know like you can

tune in you can figure it out for

[Debra Driscoll]: yourself and then everything expands

[Nick McGowan]: yeah that’s when life actually begins at

that point there’s a lot of a lot

[Nick McGowan]: of hesitant around most things that have

to do with doing deep work for people

[Debra Driscoll]: m

[Nick McGowan]: because of that fear the unknown fear

of you know it just being bullshit or

[Nick McGowan]: fear of them not actually have in

a problem and maybe experiencing something so those

[Nick McGowan]: people that are kind of going through

that time where they’re trying to figure out

[Nick McGowan]: something doesn’t feel right how do you

help people actually get to their tuition because

[Nick McGowan]: i’m like you were i believe that

we’re all spiritual beings here

[Debra Driscoll]: m

[Nick McGowan]: and we all have that intuition

[Debra Driscoll]: m

[Nick McGowan]: it just probably layered over for most

people where they can’t get to it because

[Debra Driscoll]: m

[Nick McGowan]: so callous and they ust can’t hear

it so how do you help

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: those people be able to get to

the point where they can hear more of

[Nick McGowan]: it even if it’s like a faint

voice they go

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: i think it’s over there somewhere

[Debra Driscoll]: i’m telling you’re picking up what i’m

putting down you’re playing in my playground right

[Debra Driscoll]: now nick

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: because for the month of june

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: this is what i’m teaching in my

membership and also i also on the big

[Debra Driscoll]: life magic you tube i do every

wednesday i do witch wednesday i share

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: something about ritual practice or magic weaving

and for the whole month of june i’m

[Debra Driscoll]: sharing about intuition how we can

[Nick McGowan]: nice

[Debra Driscoll]: tune into it to answer your question

what i first invite people to do is

[Debra Driscoll]: to affirm i am intuitive sure the

volume may be turned right down

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: you have it the first thing you

need to know is like claim that you

[Debra Driscoll]: have it it’s the voice of our


[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Debra Driscoll]: first thing to know is i am

intuitive because i work with some people who

[Debra Driscoll]: come to work with me and they

believe that bra is intuitive but i’m not

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: so that’s how i begin now i’m

just like okay well let’s anchor into your

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: because

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: i’m

[Nick McGowan]: let’s

[Debra Driscoll]: your magical

[Nick McGowan]: let’s switch

[Debra Driscoll]: playmate

[Nick McGowan]: that around

[Debra Driscoll]: and your guide

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: but this is your magical adventure

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: the first thing i advise people is

affirm that you

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Debra Driscoll]: have it and then actually begin

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: to work on the relationship because it’s

a relationship it’s a dialogue

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: it’s communication you can’t demand that your

intuition turns up and sends you a sign

[Debra Driscoll]: and gives

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: you a insight if you haven’t turned

up to relationship for ten years you can’t

[Debra Driscoll]: do that you wouldn’t you wouldn’t do

that to like someone

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: you knew in high school

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: you never spoke to and then just

picked them up on the phone and just

[Debra Driscoll]: say hey buddy i need to borrow

your car you wouldn’t do

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: it

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: the same with the intuition like you

begin building the relationship and there’s different ways

[Debra Driscoll]: you can do that you can just

start to affirm that you have it you

[Debra Driscoll]: can start to do breathing and meditation

and you can till start to play you

[Debra Driscoll]: can start to be curious about how

does my intuition come through i often invite

[Debra Driscoll]: people more and more and more towards

play and exploration

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: i think

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: there is unfortunately adults believe that when

i grow up need to be serious

[Nick McGowan]: wrong

[Debra Driscoll]: and that is

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Debra Driscoll]: wrong

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: our brains

[Nick McGowan]: wrong wrong wrong

[Debra Driscoll]: love play if we want to learn

something play if you want to learn something

[Debra Driscoll]: dance it out your muscle memory is

going to learn it much quicker so i’m

[Debra Driscoll]: moving people towards play play play play

play and when people

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: work with me i do incremental little

magic activations for them it’s almost like they

[Debra Driscoll]: can you step onto the playground step

onto the playground then step into the playground

[Debra Driscoll]: and now pick up the ball on

the playground now invite somebody

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: else to play with the ball with

them like you know you can’t expect somebody

[Debra Driscoll]: to just go from i haven’t been

tuned into my magic for twenty years to

[Debra Driscoll]: suddenly shooting hoops

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Debra Driscoll]: it’s like

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: help people along with and a lot

of it is about affirming for people have

[Debra Driscoll]: it everyone has it what do you

want to do

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: with it

[Nick McGowan]: now i can see how it transfers

over from what you do in that realm

[Nick McGowan]: and working with people in that sort

of way how that transfers over to the

[Nick McGowan]: grief

[Debra Driscoll]: m

[Nick McGowan]: because there are problems that people just

push away and they go i can’t handle

[Nick McGowan]: it anymore like trauma childhood trauma some

people don’t remember that they had some crazy

[Nick McGowan]: dramatic thing that happened because their brain

was like well this ship is pretty rough

[Nick McGowan]: you’re not able

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: to handle this right now and they

just push it away so

[Debra Driscoll]: much

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: and i can see where that kind

of that bridge goes from okay now you

[Nick McGowan]: have an understanding and you’re tapping into

your intuition the ship that’s back there or

[Nick McGowan]: something crazy that just happened so can

you give us a little bit of details

[Nick McGowan]: as much as you’d like to give

on what actually happened for you to get

[Nick McGowan]: you to that point where you said

what now i’m going to go through grief

[Nick McGowan]: myself and help others do the same

[Debra Driscoll]: ah well you know the the journey

of greet for me is three times over

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: the

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: first first knock of death was the

very first man i’d ever fallen in love

[Debra Driscoll]: with nick

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: he chose to take his own life

i was twenty and then seven months later

[Debra Driscoll]: i’m twenty one and my father colin

joseph the amazing academic with seven degrees died

[Debra Driscoll]: of an unexpected heart attack i turned

from twenty to twenty one very first man

[Debra Driscoll]: i loved and also the very first

man i loved the first

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: fall in love and my father the

very first man you ever love both gone

[Debra Driscoll]: within seven months and all of my

friendship circle was grieving all of my family

[Debra Driscoll]: was grieving and the truth be told

no one knew what to do didn’t know

[Debra Driscoll]: we had no way a guide book

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: like how do you do grieve and

so you know it’s twenty one i drank

[Debra Driscoll]: a lot of beer and i smoked

some joints and i believed in about a

[Debra Driscoll]: year i’ll be good maybe i just

cry a bit write in my journal

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: and i thought i was really processing

grief and you know truth we told again

[Debra Driscoll]: we were all doing the best that

we could at the time

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: what we knew and what we were

managing but you know a couple of years

[Debra Driscoll]: later i couldn’t get out of a

shower i was crying

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: i just couldn’t get out of the

shower i just everything was falling down and

[Debra Driscoll]: by the time i went to reach

for help the psychologist said to me oh

[Debra Driscoll]: you’re processing undigested grief and i was

like what no

[Nick McGowan]: m m

[Debra Driscoll]: that’s a couple of years ago and

that was when i kind of realized grief

[Debra Driscoll]: is patient if it’s going

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: to wait for you because grief is

offering you opportunities your heart and your soul

[Debra Driscoll]: to learn and i missed class i

was stoned or drunk i didn’t turn up

[Debra Driscoll]: to class

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: so when i started to work through

that later in my twenties i promised myself

[Debra Driscoll]: if death and grief ever came knocking

again i would not deny it would turn

[Debra Driscoll]: up to class i would be

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: with it little did i know that

promise was going to have to be cashed

[Debra Driscoll]: in nine years ago my son save

joseph one month before his eleventh birthday unexpected

[Debra Driscoll]: ley died so i went from being

a single mother to an almost eleven year

[Debra Driscoll]: old amazing boy to one morning going

to wake him and he had already passed

[Debra Driscoll]: away in the night and i had

no idea completely unexpected

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: he wasn’t ill i found out eighteen

months later it was a rare condition of

[Debra Driscoll]: his heart took his life and spun

him back up to spirit there i am

[Debra Driscoll]: again you

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: know at this place and it was

three days later and i sitting on my

[Debra Driscoll]: kitchen floor or crying there’s people milling

and seething all around my house and my

[Debra Driscoll]: garden in australia australian version of sitting

shiver and i was like i don’t know

[Debra Driscoll]: like how am i going to you

know just like lost in it all it

[Debra Driscoll]: felt so heavy and then i remembered

i was like hold on a minute i

[Debra Driscoll]: made a promise

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: and in my repair from my mid

twenties up until this point

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: i had begun to really study spiritual

practice and healing moralities and i had been

[Debra Driscoll]: working in that i’d been teaching that

and i was in clinical practice and i

[Debra Driscoll]: knew so much more so my curiosity

got me off the kitchen floor i was

[Debra Driscoll]: like okay i’m gonna i’m going to

follow through on this promise i’m going to

[Debra Driscoll]: turn up to this grief and i

am going to find out what is possible

[Debra Driscoll]: can i survive if i turn all

the magic and the spiritual practice that i

[Debra Driscoll]: teach and work with other people if

i turn that on to myself can i

[Debra Driscoll]: survive this and

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: the data question life beyond this

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: you know the answers yes which is

why my business is called big life magic

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: it was you know my big

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: life loss was my pathway to discovering

my big life magic

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Debra Driscoll]: and i believe we can all do

that and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: it’s not easy it’s a tricky pathway

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Debra Driscoll]: there’s gifts along the way

[Nick McGowan]: yeah isn’t it a wild thought to

think so much has happened after such a

[Nick McGowan]: traumatic experience

[Debra Driscoll]: m

[Nick McGowan]: that if that didn’t happen you would

potentially still have your son but you wouldn’t

[Nick McGowan]: have anything else and everybody that you’ve

helped would

[Debra Driscoll]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: not have been helped

[Debra Driscoll]: ah yeah i’ve had

[Nick McGowan]: it’s

[Debra Driscoll]: that framing like that started to work


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: you know not immediately definitely not immediately

[Nick McGowan]: course not

[Debra Driscoll]: you know as i started to write

my book as i started to speak more

[Debra Driscoll]: of the stories of the things that

i was learning and sharing as i started

[Debra Driscoll]: to do this work as a grief

guide kept getting reflected back to me i

[Debra Driscoll]: was like

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: this was

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: i had a guide like a spirit

god come to meet me in my sleep

[Debra Driscoll]: couple of nights before

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: my son died i had no idea

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Debra Driscoll]: that my son was going to die

and this spirit guide came he was like

[Debra Driscoll]: middle eastern descent very tall amazing elaborate

hat which made him seem like he had

[Debra Driscoll]: this great authority he sat on the

side of the bed and he said to

[Debra Driscoll]: me very clearly said need you to

listen every night that i have come to

[Debra Driscoll]: speak to you you have chosen to

forget when you wake up but this is

[Debra Driscoll]: the last time that i can come

please remember research s important

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: i woke up from that and i

was like well that’s vivid and i don’t

[Debra Driscoll]: normally have really vivid dreams like so

when when

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: i do get a really vivid dream

i really noticed it and i was like

[Debra Driscoll]: i have no idea what that gud

was talking but he was wearing a fabulous

[Debra Driscoll]: hat i guess that means something

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: and i didn’t even again i didn’t

click straight away after a while when i

[Debra Driscoll]: began to process it and then share

more of it i realized what he was

[Debra Driscoll]: talking about is my life is the

research i have survived next death my father’s

[Debra Driscoll]: death and my son’s death the lover

the father and the son survived both of

[Debra Driscoll]: those all three of those debts

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: and i had the experience of it

because my life is the research i now

[Debra Driscoll]: gift to others that they can have

experience that is reaching and healing and expensive

[Nick McGowan]: yeah i appreciate that you actually look

at it that way you know obviously and

[Nick McGowan]: i say it’s obvious because there are

people that could choose a negative way to

[Nick McGowan]: look at that

[Debra Driscoll]: m hm

[Nick McGowan]: they could think that like you’d mentioned

earlier that do things happen to or for

[Nick McGowan]: me

[Debra Driscoll]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: that it happened to you the fact

that you spun that and said it’s happening

[Nick McGowan]: for me for others simultaneously that of

itself that level of awareness kind of just

[Nick McGowan]: jumps over a lot of people’s heads

[Debra Driscoll]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: but you had made that kind of

pro is earlier in life

[Debra Driscoll]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: so did you feel like and forgive

me if this sounds like this is an

[Nick McGowan]: asshole question but did you feel like

[Debra Driscoll]: ask

[Nick McGowan]: you called

[Debra Driscoll]: nick

[Nick McGowan]: that in

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah i think well i believe we

design our lives i do

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: and you know was i pissed it

myself for designing this yeah

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: you know is like

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: god jeff who do you decide this

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: you know but i also

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: knew it was a reason and i

knew it was a reason for my son

[Debra Driscoll]: to leave at the time that he

did and for me to stay it’s just

[Debra Driscoll]: like it took

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: a really long time for the acceptance

into the to the being with that i

[Debra Driscoll]: absolutely believe we make choices from spirit


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: our soul for human blue print and

within that we have choice again we have

[Debra Driscoll]: will power we have choice as humans

o yes i wrote in my blue print

[Debra Driscoll]: i would be a single parent to

sage joseph driscoll in that one month before

[Debra Driscoll]: his eleventh birthday he would pass away

was in sage’s blueprint also i contract between

[Debra Driscoll]: the two of us after he dies

i have choice i can choose to move

[Debra Driscoll]: towards the lesson and the evolution of

that or i can choose to wear the

[Debra Driscoll]: badge of look at me or

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: me i lost my son i’m the

grieving mother now for the rest of eternity

[Debra Driscoll]: ho everyone has a choice and there’s

more than two choices

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: no and it comes in little shifts

like the choice sure i had had a

[Debra Driscoll]: choice of like i’m going to be

curious about this which got me off the

[Debra Driscoll]: kitchen floor three days after sage’s death

but there’s another moment that i want to

[Debra Driscoll]: share with which i think was a

really big mind set shift my son had

[Debra Driscoll]: been buried so it took took a

couple of weeks for them to do test

[Debra Driscoll]: on his brain and his body to

figure out why he had died

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Debra Driscoll]: it was a mystery so it was

like three weeks later for i could bury

[Debra Driscoll]: him and then after the the day

after the burial myself and his godmother my

[Debra Driscoll]: best friend julie we planted a flower

garden we put our hands in earth we

[Debra Driscoll]: planted flowers so we had something to

do because it’s a real day the day

[Debra Driscoll]: after you buried your it’s a really

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: real day you’re like what

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: do i do today so

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Debra Driscoll]: we planted this this flower garden which

was julie’s suggestion because she amazing human who

[Debra Driscoll]: knew exactly how to support me and

also support her because her heart was breaking

[Debra Driscoll]: too was her godson we planted this

flower gum and then again a couple of

[Debra Driscoll]: weeks past and i’m alone everyone’s left

now there’s no more people coming to visit

[Debra Driscoll]: the house flowers have stopped turning up

it’s just that weird kind of floating energy

[Debra Driscoll]: of i don’t know what to do

with my grief i’m just kind of in

[Debra Driscoll]: pain all the time and i

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: was out in the garden and i’m

looking at the flowers and i can see

[Debra Driscoll]: the flowers that were planted to starting

to bloom and take shape i’m looking at

[Debra Driscoll]: them and i’m thinking over and over

and over miss you and miss you and

[Debra Driscoll]: miss you like my body was missing

my son i wanted him to be

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: running down the back stairs i wanted

to be able to hug him body was

[Debra Driscoll]: aching my heart was broken and my

mind was on repeat i miss you miss

[Debra Driscoll]: you miss you and there was something

about being with this and having this meditative

[Debra Driscoll]: space of just looking at these flower

that we’re actually changing and taking shape coming

[Debra Driscoll]: to life and color something about that

dropped in for me and was like well

[Debra Driscoll]: i miss him so much because i

love him

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: then i went i could change that

instead of saying i miss you i miss

[Debra Driscoll]: you i miss you on repeat i

could say i love you then over the

[Debra Driscoll]: next few weeks every time i’d get

this burst of like i miss you i

[Debra Driscoll]: miss you i would stop paul’s breed

and then say i love you i love

[Debra Driscoll]: you i love you and it was

huge shift because like missing you the shoulders

[Debra Driscoll]: rolling the heart caves in

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: everything is dark and then when you

expand to i love you everything opens up

[Debra Driscoll]: again

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: and i really believe that’s when i

started to work on the mind set there’s

[Debra Driscoll]: work in spirit there’s work on mind

there’s work on heart there’s work on body

[Debra Driscoll]: like grief is a whole body everything


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: that’s the day when i thought now

i’m starting to work with my mind

[Nick McGowan]: m that’s awesome thank you for sharing

that i want to point out a bit

[Nick McGowan]: of a pattern that you had mentioned

before that seems like it showed up in

[Nick McGowan]: that way where you had said before

about play and having fun

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: just starting to move on things and

continue to move and explore and make little

[Nick McGowan]: changes and little adaptations et cetera and

it sounds like that’s sort of similar if

[Nick McGowan]: not one hunderd percent similar like that

what that path like for you then to

[Nick McGowan]: go wait a minute here’s something that

i see because i was out playing where

[Nick McGowan]: if you hadn’t been out playing you

wouldn’t have seen it

[Debra Driscoll]: exactly and just dying open to the


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: it’s not always easy when life is

giving you a tricky chapter dark the other

[Debra Driscoll]: thing i do when i’m working with

people is i’m like you’ve got to be

[Debra Driscoll]: honest about how you

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: are now if you’re

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: like i had a chapter i was

literally pissed at angels i was red

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: hot angry

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: and my mate then was why did

you take my baby away

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Debra Driscoll]: and i like i had a long

conversation that lasted days and weeks i

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: didn’t want to let go of it

i was pierced neck like

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: come on angel you’ve got to tell

me because i really pissed at you right

[Debra Driscoll]: now

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: and i’ve been praying to you for

years you really passed me off you know

[Debra Driscoll]: and it

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: just you know and i had to

be honest about the fact that in those

[Debra Driscoll]: weeks my truth was i’m not feeling

really magical right now and angels can just

[Debra Driscoll]: get out of my space

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: until they can turn up with a

good answer i’m pissed

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: that and so you

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: can’t then be in that space and

just go well like just be in love

[Debra Driscoll]: and light

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: like that wasn’t love and life for

me then that was me being honest

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: about the fact that i am trying

to channel and understand my anger it needed

[Debra Driscoll]: to

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: be directed at some one i didn’t

want to direct it anybody who as earth

[Debra Driscoll]: bound with me so the angels copped


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: and i figured it out i worked

through the anger so it’s not living in

[Debra Driscoll]: my body any more

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: the angels and i were good now


[Nick McGowan]: they give

[Debra Driscoll]: it

[Nick McGowan]: you

[Debra Driscoll]: took

[Nick McGowan]: an answer

[Debra Driscoll]: some they said to me you planned

it we didn’t take him

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: away you planned it

[Nick McGowan]: so at that point

[Debra Driscoll]: i said

[Nick McGowan]: you’re

[Debra Driscoll]: i

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Debra Driscoll]: know

[Nick McGowan]: ship

[Debra Driscoll]: that answer i was like i

[Nick McGowan]: back

[Debra Driscoll]: already

[Nick McGowan]: to the

[Debra Driscoll]: know

[Nick McGowan]: work

[Debra Driscoll]: that answer come back and give me

another one i don’t like

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: one

[Nick McGowan]: oh man

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: the thing that they actually said

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: to me was this this was their

this was their line i think went wrong

[Debra Driscoll]: that day

[Nick McGowan]: an

[Debra Driscoll]: i think went wrong that day when

i received that i was like and i

[Debra Driscoll]: can’t

[Nick McGowan]: got

[Debra Driscoll]: ignore

[Nick McGowan]: it

[Debra Driscoll]: that one

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: got it

[Nick McGowan]: noted who

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: in that ah want to touch on

that because that is so sustinct and there’s

[Nick McGowan]: no fluff to it there are no

likes and ums and as or bullshit like

[Nick McGowan]: that and isn’t funny and interesting how

spirit angels anything of the spiritual realm our

[Nick McGowan]: intuition always distinct and just this

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: thing this is it instead of like

well you know like you’re never goin to

[Nick McGowan]: her your intuition be like well you

know maybe we could do this thing but

[Nick McGowan]: you know this could get a little

weird or awkward that’s all bullshit in your

[Nick McGowan]: fucking head

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: i think that’s the thing and i’d

love for you to be able to give

[Nick McGowan]: some sort of advice for the people

that are listening to be able to listen

[Nick McGowan]: for those things that are so sistint

that they’re not your brain that’s actually intuition

[Nick McGowan]: so like we mentioned with like maybe

it’s so far back and you can barely

[Nick McGowan]: hear

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: it how

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: do you hear that or catch those

distinct things so that they do become louder

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah again great question i could go

up and o so many corners of the

[Debra Driscoll]: playground

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: with this the thing i like to

start with when talking about intuition and starting

[Debra Driscoll]: to listen and receive is his communication

is understand this intuition cannot lie to you

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: it is

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: impossible your spiritual self will never lie

to you i will never tell you something

[Debra Driscoll]: that is not in your highest good

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: and it will always come through in

a vibration that feels either calm loving otie

[Debra Driscoll]: you know when we go in when

i i’ll claim it when i go into

[Debra Driscoll]: over thinking or worry or doubt i

know the thoughts i’m having in my head

[Debra Driscoll]: are like like the vibration

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: is like and they speed up and

i can feel it i can feel that

[Debra Driscoll]: it’s my brain going and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: pathways every semi trailer is on the

highways you know when i receive from my

[Debra Driscoll]: intuition or from an angel or a

guide it feels different in the arriving

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: and sometimes it will repeat haven’t quite

picked up what they’re putting down

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: sometimes you will

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: get an intuitive message that will repeat

also the universe can find really interesting ways

[Debra Driscoll]: to bring it to you you might

turn on the radio and there’s a particular

[Debra Driscoll]: lyric playing

[Nick McGowan]: i love that

[Debra Driscoll]: which reminds you of what your mom

said to you yesterday that you didn’t want

[Debra Driscoll]: to hear then you know you go

to the book store and there’s a book

[Debra Driscoll]: you know and all of that is

also that’s your intuition as well that’s your

[Debra Driscoll]: magic guiding you to those things

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: our intuition ever comes through in the

knowing which is clear cognizance clear sentience which

[Debra Driscoll]: is our clear feeling clairvoyance which is

a clear seeing clair audience which is the

[Debra Driscoll]: listening

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: the other thing you can do is

just try to figure out like how do

[Debra Driscoll]: i sense intuition do i see symbols

do i have vivid dreams me not so

[Debra Driscoll]: much i’m not so much clear point

mean i am i believe we’re of all

[Debra Driscoll]: of them

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: i’m clar cognizant is my dominant i

receive a full thought that drops in my

[Debra Driscoll]: mind when the angel said to me

nothing went wrong that day as a fur

[Debra Driscoll]: thought dropped in my mind and it

was annoying

[Debra Driscoll]: no and that’s also like how i’ve

learned to trust that boys everyone is going

[Debra Driscoll]: to get

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: that some people

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: are going to get strong feelings in

their body some people are going to hear

[Debra Driscoll]: particular sounds

[Nick McGowan]: sure it’s almost like how people learn

you know some people are audio learners

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: they need to hear

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: it some people need to see it

and some people need to get in there

[Nick McGowan]: and feel things and there’s that spiritual

side to that as well that you in

[Nick McGowan]: jest information certain ways that if you’re

looking at it the wrong way and go

[Nick McGowan]: i’m trying to see these symbols but

you’re really hear things

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: and you’re not

[Debra Driscoll]: exactly

[Nick McGowan]: paying attention

[Debra Driscoll]: exactly

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: and then you

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: then you conclude well i’m not magical

i’m not intuitive that’s for other people and

[Debra Driscoll]: it’s like now

[Nick McGowan]: you’re looking

[Debra Driscoll]: you

[Nick McGowan]: the

[Debra Driscoll]: just

[Nick McGowan]: wrong

[Debra Driscoll]: needed

[Nick McGowan]: way

[Debra Driscoll]: to you just need to turn around

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: in the playground you’re playing with the

balls but you need have her on the

[Debra Driscoll]: swings

[Nick McGowan]: oh man that’s that’s a great way

to look at it like when you go

[Nick McGowan]: to look in a spice wrack and

i think of like somebody being the other

[Nick McGowan]: room like hey can you grab the

salt and pepper and they’re looking they’re like

[Nick McGowan]: i don’t i don’t see it it’s

not even

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: in here

[Debra Driscoll]: not

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Debra Driscoll]: even

[Nick McGowan]: then the

[Debra Driscoll]: here

[Nick McGowan]: person walks by and just sticks their

hand in front and grabs it because

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: they decided they’re not going to be

able to see it and they don’t want

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: to see it and they’re looking past

it all sight and the awareness right it’s

[Nick McGowan]: that

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: deep level to it

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah that’s why i say start with


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: like what is your relationship if your

relationship to your intuition is well this is

[Debra Driscoll]: hard yeah

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: it’s going to be hard

[Nick McGowan]: yeah exactly

[Debra Driscoll]: no

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Debra Driscoll]: just like are you playful are you

open are you willing because intuition is

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: angels guides

[Nick McGowan]: you just need

[Debra Driscoll]: the

[Nick McGowan]: to be

[Debra Driscoll]: whole universe they’re playful they’re willing

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: what part

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: are you going to play hostile or


[Nick McGowan]: we’re a hermit and they’re like i

don’t want any bits of it

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: run away

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: uh well deer it’s been so awesome

to have you on the show

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: i really have appreciated this conversation

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: before we wrap things up what’s one

piece of advice you’d give somebody that’s listening

[Nick McGowan]: that’s on their path towards self mastery

[Debra Driscoll]: stop pause breathe consciously choose

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Debra Driscoll]: always i have to say anchor into

your magic believe you’re magical i like just

[Debra Driscoll]: claim it

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Debra Driscoll]: a magical and your magic can turn

up in any way that you want it

[Debra Driscoll]: to but in terms of mind mastery

it’s about choice yeah choose to live in

[Debra Driscoll]: the friendly environment

[Nick McGowan]: that’s awesome and thank you so much

Debra where where can people find you and

[Nick McGowan]: where can they connect with you

[Debra Driscoll]: so big life magic big life magic

is teaching and sharing meditations and all things

[Debra Driscoll]: magic on you tube there’s big life

magic you tube where you can catch me

[Debra Driscoll]: wednesdays fridays and sundays and i also

have a magic membership if people are magic

[Debra Driscoll]: curious and want to be hanging out

with other magic members so that’s the big

[Debra Driscoll]: life magic membership oh easy option big

life magic dot com another way and if

[Debra Driscoll]: you want to go there there’s a

free meditation called the smiling heart that you

[Debra Driscoll]: can download which is going to open

your heart in less than ten minutes

[Nick McGowan]: awesome so everybody go download it

through a ten minute meditation before you go

[Nick McGowan]: to sleep and you’ll be

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: great

[Debra Driscoll]: that’s it that’s it

[Nick McGowan]: again

[Debra Driscoll]: thank you

[Nick McGowan]: thank

[Debra Driscoll]: so

[Nick McGowan]: you

[Debra Driscoll]: much

[Nick McGowan]: so much

[Debra Driscoll]: yeah thank you

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