Implementing An Entrepreneurial Operating System Starting With Yourself – Ep.057 -Justin Mink

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Episode summary:​ Justin Mink had been a regular active athlete and had started up a very successful company, but then he fell ill with mono. Mono really took its toll on Justin and he had to step down from his own company. 

He invested a lot of time and money into getting better, but mono doesn’t have an easy cure. It seemed as if the more he was doing, the worse he felt. He then decided it was just time to accept that he has mono and he can’t control this illness and how it makes him feel. 

He was going to switch his focus on improving his inner self and finding happiness within. Once he shifted the mindset, the rest followed. His mind, his spirit, and his body felt a lot better.

Guest Name & Bio: Justin Mink has spent a career in leadership and founder roles at companies that have grown from 0-1000s of employees, raised millions of dollars in capital and been valued at over $1B. 

Career highlights include cofounder of Music Audience Exchange, an innovative music marketing technology company based in Frisco that today has over 80 employees, CMO at the cannabis big data firm New Frontier Data, and sales leader of the Franchise team at Scorpion, a digital marketing firm that has spent 11 consecutive years on the Inc. 5000 Fastest Growing Private Companies in America list.

Today, as a Professional Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) Implementer, he helps entrepreneurs and leadership teams solve root problems and lead more effectively through a simple set of proven, practical tools.

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[Nick McGowan]: Hey Justin welcome to the show how are you doing?

[Justin Mink]: I’m good it’s great to be her neck thanks for having me

[Nick McGowan]: absolutely I’m glad that you’re here so I got to call this out first you’re

[Nick McGowan]: in Dallas right?

[Justin Mink]: yep

[Nick McGowan]: we didn’t talk about this before we hit recording but i’m from Philly are you

[Nick McGowan]: are you an eagle’s fan?

[Justin Mink]: well i

[Nick McGowan]: are

[Justin Mink]: got

[Nick McGowan]: you

[Justin Mink]: one

[Nick McGowan]: a

[Justin Mink]: better

[Nick McGowan]: football

[Justin Mink]: for you man

[Nick McGowan]: fan

[Justin Mink]: i am a i’m a washington commanders


[Nick McGowan]: oh no i’m so

[Justin Mink]: and

[Nick McGowan]: sorry

[Justin Mink]: yeah i know i know i am

too i used to be a flag boy

[Justin Mink]: i call it a flag guy for

the red skins at the time so i

[Nick McGowan]: nice

[Justin Mink]: used to run around the field fed

field with a g with the team about

[Nick McGowan]: wow

[Justin Mink]: fifteen years ago

[Nick McGowan]: wow

[Justin Mink]: so i die hard

[Nick McGowan]: and that’s that’s pretty cool i mean

obviously there whole organization is going through some

[Nick McGowan]: rough stuff right now the whole snider

thing and everything

[Justin Mink]: don’t

[Nick McGowan]: else that’s

[Justin Mink]: don’t

[Nick McGowan]: happening

[Justin Mink]: rub it in nick and

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Justin Mink]: if you throw batteries at me during

this this interview i’m going to be a

[Justin Mink]: little ticked off

[Nick McGowan]: well at first i was wondering you

know are you a cowboy’s fan and we’re

[Nick McGowan]: going to talk in that direction

[Justin Mink]: a oh

[Nick McGowan]: um but

[Justin Mink]: that we

[Nick McGowan]: hey

[Justin Mink]: can agree on

[Nick McGowan]: yeh yes we absolutely can thank

[Justin Mink]: common

[Nick McGowan]: you

[Justin Mink]: enemy

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: exactly but hey man i wish the

best for once i enjoy him i like

[Nick McGowan]: him as a person and i hope

hope they’re successful but

[Justin Mink]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: what after revere said recently it’s funny

because this episode is not going to omeo

[Nick McGowan]: for like another couple of months so

by the

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: time it happens like probably be close

to the super ball and people will be

[Nick McGowan]: like what is what is going on


[Justin Mink]: right

[Nick McGowan]: but that’s not what we’re here to

talk about man i appreciate you i appreciate

[Nick McGowan]: you jumping on you were actually referred

by another guest and that guest was awesome

[Nick McGowan]: so cory quinn was a guest on

the show and as soon as i asked

[Nick McGowan]: him hey who else you know would

be a good fit for the show you

[Nick McGowan]: instantly popped up so justin why don’t

you give us a bit of context tell

[Nick McGowan]: us what you do

[Justin Mink]: what

[Nick McGowan]: and something that most people don’t know

about you that’s a little odd or bizarre

[Justin Mink]: yeah core is an awesome guy dear

friend former colleague um so i can’t wait

[Justin Mink]: to hear his episode so gosh i’m

a professional es implementer i help this is

[Justin Mink]: i teach coach facilitate them mastering a

simple set of practical tools to help them

[Justin Mink]: get more of what they want out

of their business run a better business live

[Justin Mink]: better lives gotch something weird but i’ve

lived weird life i am

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: i used to be a club promoter

i used to write under a pen name

[Justin Mink]: for a magazine a single column

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: i had dinner at lionel ritchie’s house

once i was a cabana boy at calvin

[Justin Mink]: clients house in the hamptons um

[Nick McGowan]: what m

[Justin Mink]: list goes on

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: about weird weird ship in my life

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Justin Mink]: it’s been kind of

[Nick McGowan]: uh uh

[Justin Mink]: it was fun for a while

[Nick McGowan]: yeah man it sounds it i mean

i guess i didn’t need to ask that

[Nick McGowan]: question because

[Justin Mink]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: you pretty much told me you were

the flag guy at

[Justin Mink]: flat guy is the high

[Nick McGowan]: the

[Justin Mink]: light

[Nick McGowan]: red

[Justin Mink]: of my

[Nick McGowan]: skins

[Justin Mink]: life let’s be honest

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: yeah how the hell did you get

to that position you know one day you’re

[Nick McGowan]: like you’re probably wondering how i got

here with a flag in my hand running

[Nick McGowan]: around the field

[Justin Mink]: yeah i was friends with a lot

of the cheer leaders and the cheer leading

[Justin Mink]: coach with a buddy and it was

not a paid gig but we went went

[Justin Mink]: to the parking lot and tail gated

and you know couple of my colleague got

[Justin Mink]: fired for being drunk and running the

wrong way on the field

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: but we got to basically as close

as you can be to being a part

[Justin Mink]: of the game without being a player

a team member it was it was a

[Justin Mink]: pretty cool experience of course the team

was terrible at the time so there was

[Justin Mink]: that to contend with but it was

still fun

[Nick McGowan]: that’s such a cool thing that most

people aren’t able to say you know it’s

[Nick McGowan]: not

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: like um and that’s not something that

you found you know a job hiring sort

[Nick McGowan]: of situation like in the classified you’re

like that could be the flag guy

[Justin Mink]: no

[Nick McGowan]: but through your connections you got to

that point so

[Justin Mink]: that’s right

[Nick McGowan]: man it sounds like you’ve just reading

through your your bio and a bit about

[Nick McGowan]: you and the content that i see

on linked because we’re connected on linked in

[Nick McGowan]: it look like you’ve kind of lived

a crazy life so i want to unpack

[Nick McGowan]: some of the stories are there some

major key moments in time but you can

[Nick McGowan]: kind of look back at as a

pivotal moment where you’re like man that moment

[Nick McGowan]: right there that change me

[Justin Mink]: yeah well i got really sick co

founded a company in dallas and of twenty

[Justin Mink]: thirteen a music marketing

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: company and i just returned from a

sebatical i spent a few months solo back

[Justin Mink]: packing around south east asia after my

last pretty intense seven year gig started founded

[Justin Mink]: a company here that today is doing

really well we raised a bunch of money

[Justin Mink]: it’s got eighty employes music marketing technology

company in dallas and but i didn’t last

[Justin Mink]: very long there unfortun ally because i

got mono which is not fun

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Justin Mink]: for any human but it hits adults

hard and it hits adults who are working

[Justin Mink]: eight hour weeks even harder

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: um and so i wasn’t able to

recover and it turned into this chronic illness

[Justin Mink]: i had to actually leave company i

was also engaged so my life was just

[Justin Mink]: kind of dominated by work and it

was just and my health at the time

[Justin Mink]: and uh silly me wherever you go

there you are

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Justin Mink]: traveled half way around the country back

to where i’m from originally in the d

[Justin Mink]: c area with my then then fiance

took another sea level role at a start

[Justin Mink]: up doing big data and analytic in

the cannabis industry but as my health continued

[Justin Mink]: to fail and wound up spending ten

days at the mayo clinic and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: sick pretty much constantly debilitating illness and

so um it’s something i stil deal with

[Justin Mink]: ten years later much better place than

i was then but it was a real

[Justin Mink]: journey has been a journey of self

discovery of learning how to operate a lot

[Justin Mink]: differently in the world western medicine is

not designed to treat is that things like

[Justin Mink]: what i have contended with and our

expectations in this society is give us the

[Justin Mink]: red pull and make it go away


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Justin Mink]: fortunately that doesn’t exist for some some

more tricky things that medicine doesn’t yet understand

[Justin Mink]: so i think

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: getting sick it was probably the most

pivotal moment of my life i don’t

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: think i don’t know if i would


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: it though i think about that all

the time i really don’t know

[Nick McGowan]: interesting

[Justin Mink]: if i would change anything

[Nick McGowan]: yeah that’s a good point and i

think a lot of people when they think

[Nick McGowan]: back

[Justin Mink]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: or think about thinking back like on

your death bed what are you going to

[Nick McGowan]: think you know i shouldn’t have worked

or i should have spent more time in

[Nick McGowan]: my family or what have you have

moments where you’re fighting something like people had

[Nick McGowan]: fought covid or people fight cancer at

different times throughout their careers and things that

[Nick McGowan]: they’re going through and have some of

that stuff kind of linger i know and

[Nick McGowan]: there’s kind of that with men where

you just get kind of like a little

[Nick McGowan]: bit of cold an you’re like oh

my god the world’s over i need a

[Nick McGowan]: blank my mama

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: and some chicken

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: soup and leave me alone sort of

thing i know that that can kind of

[Nick McGowan]: drain on you naturally

[Justin Mink]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: even if you got alergies or some

stupid little cold so something like that for

[Nick McGowan]: you to go through a company that

you had and then to leave and to

[Nick McGowan]: join another company that’s got to be

tough the mind as well because your body

[Nick McGowan]: is feeling it and your mind is

then being drained by all of that so

[Nick McGowan]: how did you manage your mindset looking

back at it now in that period of

[Nick McGowan]: time

[Justin Mink]: yea i it’s something that i’ve wondered

a lot about becase i managed to be

[Justin Mink]: pretty high functioning

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: um

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: it’s funny i’m recently in a funny

it’s been such a long journey but even

[Justin Mink]: even recently and through it all ovid

certainly didn’t help right

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Justin Mink]: stirred a lot of things that i

that i put to bed it kind of

[Justin Mink]: brought them back to the surface

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: so i think i probably out ve

be healthier a lot sooner had i no

[Justin Mink]: gotten covid um so that sort of

extended and exacerbated things but i looked back

[Justin Mink]: i was in survival mode you know

and i recently started seeing a sports sports

[Justin Mink]: psychologist believe it or not because i

was an athlete and i feel like that

[Justin Mink]: muscle sort of atrofeed that sort of


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: fire m and i recently started seeing

a sports psychologist ecause i thought well i’m

[Justin Mink]: finally ready to really think about self

improvement performance improvement beyond just like feeling okay

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: and she said you know what that

athlete mindset had not atrophy it was just

[Justin Mink]: fully focused on survival and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: now you’re you’ve sort of switched that

because you’ve survived and kind of gotten through

[Justin Mink]: the other side now you can be

more intentional about improvement and so i think

[Justin Mink]: i just i just fought fought

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: fought fought yeah

[Nick McGowan]: m i’m sure that made you more

sick and more sick and at times you

[Nick McGowan]: know but it probably also helped get

your mind off of it in certain ways

[Nick McGowan]: because you could dive into projects i

know there are moments where you kind of

[Nick McGowan]: sit there even if you kind of

lock your office door and you’re like i

[Nick McGowan]: just need a moment to myself it

will last for a moment or two but

[Nick McGowan]: then you and starts picking up other

stuff and you go oh shit i got

[Nick McGowan]: to grab this or get a grocery

shopping or i need to take my shoes

[Nick McGowan]: off because they’ve been on all day

like your brain will us start popping different

[Nick McGowan]: things in was there

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: a lot of cloudiness that happened or

do you feel like you were kind of

[Nick McGowan]: able to probably push yourself through and

be at the top of your game or

[Nick McGowan]: at least as close as you could

be while kind of pushing through the sick

[Nick McGowan]: brain in a sense

[Justin Mink]: yeah i mean i definitely pushing on

multiple fronts i was i was a little

[Justin Mink]: too intense about healing i was

[Nick McGowan]: also

[Justin Mink]: i just took an intensity to every

single i mean

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: nick i can’t tell you how many

modalities tors therapyes oh god i don’t even

[Justin Mink]: want to know how much money i’ve


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: on like figuring this out it probably

would make me sick if i saw a

[Justin Mink]: number and it was so intense i

was just like

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Justin Mink]: the state we’re so high like every

bet was a thousand dollar hand you know

[Justin Mink]: and so

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: i was always pursuing something but that

that was always occupying mind but but i

[Justin Mink]: had my help set so high on

things that inevitably i still expected the magic

[Justin Mink]: cure when it didn’t happen i was

let down and it was on to the

[Justin Mink]: next one um meanwhile i’m focusing on

work and that felt like a healthy place

[Justin Mink]: to put my mind and occupy my

attention and sometimes forget about how i was

[Justin Mink]: feeling when you get into that zone

and you get your

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: mind locked into a project or task

you can kind of go in that flow

[Justin Mink]: state and you’re not thinking about your

body any more so so yeah between those

[Justin Mink]: two things it was

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Justin Mink]: you know it was an intense period

really intense especially over covid when you know

[Justin Mink]: we’re all locked up had time to

just sit with ourselves for a long time

[Nick McGowan]: hm yeah absolutely i know that start

up a lot for a lot of people

[Nick McGowan]: just thinking about different things career change

relationship changes all of that i’ve gone through

[Nick McGowan]: some of that stuff as well so

i think there’s a lot of people that

[Nick McGowan]: can relate in that sort of way

and i don’t want to sound weird but

[Nick McGowan]: i appreciate when i have guests that

come on and tell kind of a tale

[Nick McGowan]: that’s similar to what a lot of

well experience but at a depth where most

[Nick McGowan]: people didn’t go through mono or get

covid or and get covid you know and

[Nick McGowan]: kind of work through that and

[Justin Mink]: m

[Nick McGowan]: have to work through that so i

appreciate that you’re able hop on here and

[Nick McGowan]: talk through this stuff kind of retrospectively

while still kind of processing through it because

[Nick McGowan]: for the most part i think in

certain ways things are relative because somebody else

[Nick McGowan]: is pain may be greater than all

of that but on a smaller

[Justin Mink]: right

[Nick McGowan]: scale compared to what you’ve been through

so we can all kind of relate to

[Nick McGowan]: that in that sort of sense and

right now going through careers going through what’s

[Nick McGowan]: potentially the recession of the know all

the all the stuff that i think we

[Nick McGowan]: could look at and just get really

frustrated with and go well with the funk

[Nick McGowan]: why even do this so going through

that time where you felt like you just

[Nick McGowan]: kept hitting door after door after door

but there was still some glimmer of hope

[Nick McGowan]: that was in there now as you

look back at that if you were to

[Nick McGowan]: talk to somebody that’s going through that

right now is there some sort of advice

[Nick McGowan]: you’d give that person other than the

can like you can do it you know

[Nick McGowan]: you’ve got this i keep at it

that sort of deal what sort of real

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: ship would you be able to kind

of put your hand on their shoulder and

[Nick McGowan]: go look this is what’s coming is

what you’re goin to go through

[Justin Mink]: ah it’s a great question i would


[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Justin Mink]: stop looking for the magic it right

the silver

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: bullet it doesn’t exist and start

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: instead of being desperate in your search

take a more curious curious approach to it

[Justin Mink]: get interested

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: apply a lighter touch we’re not everything

is so high stakes and and really take

[Justin Mink]: responsibility and own your choices your life

and your your health from a physical and

[Justin Mink]: mental spiritual and emotional perspective and be

okay with whatever happens you have to be

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Justin Mink]: okay the definition of of happiness is

the further the delta is between the way

[Justin Mink]: things are and the way you want

them to be

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Justin Mink]: and so you can always strive and

you always should strive for improvement but if

[Justin Mink]: you always expect it and you can’t

okay with the current state you’ll always be

[Justin Mink]: unhappy even if you’re fully healthy and

you the next million dollars is when life

[Justin Mink]: is going

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: to be good right

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: so you know for me it was

just a massive massive lean experience in hata

[Justin Mink]: change my entire way i moved in

the world order to be okay and when

[Justin Mink]: i did that’s when my body started

to follow my mind set and heal

[Nick McGowan]: interesting i love how that stuff works

you know it’s almost like in some way

[Nick McGowan]: sort of giving in get ahead you

give into

[Justin Mink]: totally

[Nick McGowan]: it and say all right here we

are we’re moving in this direction um i

[Nick McGowan]: think certain people will look at that

as a faith driven thing or an intuition

[Nick McGowan]: sort of thing or here certain different

ways you can kind of color it or

[Nick McGowan]: put different glasses on but it’s all

about the same thing of understanding

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: right and being like all right i’m

here fucking whatever is going to happen is

[Nick McGowan]: going to happen the only thing i

can do is be account to me and

[Nick McGowan]: keep moving forward and i don’t want

to harp on what you’ve gone through but

[Nick McGowan]: here you are now here’s what you’re

doing so how do you live differently now

[Nick McGowan]: having gone through all that and i

get that you’re still kind of processing through

[Nick McGowan]: some of it and working through some

of it but as you see in the

[Nick McGowan]: next couple of years as you’re kind

of moving ahead how do you see things

[Nick McGowan]: being different beaus it

[Justin Mink]: yeah and you hit the down on

the head surrender right that’s

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Justin Mink]: that’s a concept or a mentality and

faith but i mean i think it just

[Justin Mink]: applies to anything in life you know

the whether it’s you know god the universe

[Justin Mink]: whatever it is you believe in

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: you know we only have so much

control and we have to be as best

[Justin Mink]: we

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: can within a framework where we know

we’re not the ones you know who are

[Justin Mink]: going to decide ultimately what what happens

there’s so many things that are out of

[Justin Mink]: our control and we just have to

make best of it you know the way

[Justin Mink]: i’ve hed i think if i hadn’t

through this experience i’d probably still be drinking

[Justin Mink]: away more than i needed to or

want or should

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: i’d have a much unhealthier life style

i probably wouldn’t i would have more pleasure

[Justin Mink]: in life but i wouldn’t have as

much true happiness and joy i think i

[Justin Mink]: would be less satisfied because i would

be always looking for what’s next

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: very ancyanxty like

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: always

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: with my mind you know four steps

ahead and it’s been very difficult over my

[Justin Mink]: life to be present so i think

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: i have way more presence and more

gratitude now then then

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: i would have otherwise and i probably

would have just lived to very certainly nothing

[Justin Mink]: is perfect i’m not saying i have

it all figured out far from it but

[Justin Mink]: i probably would have lived a life

that was very reactive and not intentional

[Nick McGowan]: o

[Justin Mink]: forever until i died

[Nick McGowan]: dan yeah and that’s one of those

things you can think about now you don’t

[Nick McGowan]: have to be on your death bed

to think oh i shouldn’t have but that

[Nick McGowan]: will scare the ship out of you

to even think

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: not be intentional i’ve found the intentionality

of life to be interesting because as we

[Nick McGowan]: grow and i can only say by

my own account because of my own life

[Nick McGowan]: but as i’ve grown and i’ve been

able to look at things differently and my

[Nick McGowan]: tensions have been different and i’m right

there with you as you go through stuff

[Nick McGowan]: it shapes you or at least it

should it should gives you the opportunity to

[Nick McGowan]: allow you to shape yourself and be

able to set your intentions different but there’s

[Nick McGowan]: also seasons right like seasons where you

kind of flow through things and where things

[Nick McGowan]: are reactionary because they’re coming at you

but within that you can still be intentional

[Nick McGowan]: and i found it to be more

principle based where it’s i’m going to take

[Nick McGowan]: the intentions of this is what is

okay with me like i’m not going a

[Nick McGowan]: go murder somebody that’s not okay that’s

on don’t fucking do nick list you know

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: um so

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: when you think of your intentionality and

looking at what you’re doing now you’ve started

[Nick McGowan]: a couple of companies you’ve run things

you’ve been in different industries do you find

[Nick McGowan]: that you’re kind of in that spot

where your intention is what you’re doing right

[Nick McGowan]: now is the thing that you know

you need to be doing or you still

[Nick McGowan]: kind of on that path towards that

[Justin Mink]: hundred per cent what i’m doing now

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: everything sort of led me to this

and it’s almost like one of those things

[Justin Mink]: where your consciousness is the last to


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: because every other cell in your body

already knows so by the time you make

[Justin Mink]: the decision it’s like you’re okay

[Nick McGowan]: been waiting

[Justin Mink]: bro like catch

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: up like come on we’ve been waiting

on you

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: so i mean what i’m doing now

is i really i think in a large

[Justin Mink]: part has helped me get healthy because

i’m finally in a place and in a

[Justin Mink]: role where all things are coming together

and coalescing in a way that supports the

[Justin Mink]: life that i i meant to live

that i want to live and that it’s

[Justin Mink]: healthy

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: for me to live

[Nick McGowan]: man i bet that’s got to be

vastly different having conversations when you think from

[Nick McGowan]: a business perspective having those conversations now

still knowing what you had gone through and

[Nick McGowan]: what conversations you had to have as

you were sick um but you had also

[Nick McGowan]: touched on relationships you said you had

a fiance at that point now there’s a

[Nick McGowan]: balance that is typically kind of difficult

especially here in the u s where were

[Nick McGowan]: basically just fucking work you

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: don’t there’s like the complete opposite where

people are like i don’t do anything at

[Nick McGowan]: all i get government money or what

have you and the other people

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: that are just working and working and

working trying to figure out ways that they

[Nick McGowan]: can you know do it the right

way but what does balance look like for

[Nick McGowan]: you know like how are you balance

throughout your day so you’re not just fucking

[Nick McGowan]: gong ho and driving the basically the

wrong way

[Justin Mink]: yeah i mean it’s that’s part of

the joy of what i’m doing is that

[Justin Mink]: flexibility i’m a solo prenurit my boss

is a bit of a dick but i

[Justin Mink]: work for myself and you

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Justin Mink]: know i can take my family just

went with me on a business trip and

[Justin Mink]: so like they came in the car

and we got a air band b and

[Justin Mink]: they hung out of the park while

i was with my client they showed up

[Justin Mink]: pick me up at my clients you

know house where we conducted a session and

[Justin Mink]: met everybody and i

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Justin Mink]: can

[Nick McGowan]: cool

[Justin Mink]: take a tuesday off and have lunch

with my wife and um you know that

[Justin Mink]: i worked primarily from a home office

and i my son now gets up before

[Justin Mink]: he wakes his mom up creeps into

my my office and sits on my lap

[Justin Mink]: to look at pictures and just man

that’s it that’s it me

[Nick McGowan]: yeah that’s awesome

[Justin Mink]: that’s it

[Nick McGowan]: yeah i know they’re different different ways

of looking at success people you know like

[Nick McGowan]: you had said earlier you keep chasing

after the money you can keep chasing after

[Nick McGowan]: the things but it sounds like you’re

actively living that you know but you also

[Nick McGowan]: pointed out a earlier like you wouldn’t

you wouldn’t change it you wouldn’t change the

[Nick McGowan]: ship that you’ve been through do you

think that’s because you’ve kind of forgiven yourself

[Nick McGowan]: for forgiving the situations of things that

you’ve gone through do you still have some

[Nick McGowan]: processing to do throughout those whole situations

because honestly man we’ve only scratched scratch a

[Nick McGowan]: surface we talked about you being sick

and you told me that you were running

[Nick McGowan]: around with flags in your hands and

doing all these other things so i can

[Nick McGowan]: almost guarantee there’s other crazy ship in

there so being able to kind of manage

[Nick McGowan]: through that you know

[Justin Mink]: yeah yeah i mean that was the

hardest thing is when you know what you’re

[Justin Mink]: capable of and you know that you

can’t fully manifest that like that’s

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Justin Mink]: sad when you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: can’t fully be who you are and

so you have to put a government for

[Justin Mink]: me if i like tap back into

that fire i would pay a price during

[Justin Mink]: that stretch and then have to go

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: getting to bed for a week to

lick my wounds so i couldn’t sustain it

[Justin Mink]: so for me i had to learn

how to walk this kind of middle path

[Justin Mink]: of sustainability

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: where i could tap into that that

kind of that like that maniac energy but

[Justin Mink]: also i learn to walk a fine

line back it out and kind of find

[Justin Mink]: that sweet spot find the flow

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: and i think that’s much more sustainable

as you as anybody even those who are

[Justin Mink]: healthy gets older right

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: you learn how you know there’s there’s

a who is the research who research really

[Justin Mink]: high performing like artists and scientists and

inevitably unless they adapt the new mindset as

[Justin Mink]: their career ages they get really dissatisfied

and depressed because they try to continue to

[Justin Mink]: meet the standards that they’re younger self


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Justin Mink]: and uh and really becoming a teacher

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: is the way to transition from becoming

a creator a problem solve or a door

[Justin Mink]: a builder transition to another phase of

your career in a satisfactory way is to

[Justin Mink]: to then use what you’ve learned to

teach others um because if you try to

[Justin Mink]: do the same stuff that you were

doing when you’re

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: thirty if you try to keep up

that when you’re sixty you just can’t you

[Justin Mink]: just

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: can’t so

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: so yeah what i’m doing now is

very much being teacher and and it’s true

[Justin Mink]: i mean it really is true that’s

that’s the shift that’s that’s proven to kind

[Justin Mink]: of satisfy all my desires you know

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: and and makes it

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Justin Mink]: feel like i am manifesting who i

really am without having a whole back

[Nick McGowan]: well yeah that’s that’s huge to be

able to kind of walk through that and

[Nick McGowan]: i think if you if you understand

that there’s the animal that’s within you that

[Nick McGowan]: you can kind of poke at and

be hey i’m going to need your energy

[Nick McGowan]: in a couple of minutes then that’s

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: a power of itself to be able

to say i’m going to turn this ship

[Nick McGowan]: on um and you’re right man i

mean typically you don’t have to be crazy

[Nick McGowan]: you just don’t there’s no need for

tasmania devil to come out unless there’s an

[Nick McGowan]: actual need and we’re typically not ever

in the spot where we need to take

[Nick McGowan]: you know a car off a child

or you know burning you know run into

[Nick McGowan]: a burning building at least that’s not

what our professions are um but being able

[Nick McGowan]: to tap back into that and having

that power it’s interesting where you go throughout

[Nick McGowan]: your day where really think about how

many times you would jump back into that

[Nick McGowan]: where you just be like fucking i’m

gonna do this thing and you run after

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: it when really you’re like now okay

i should go do this but first let

[Nick McGowan]: me go let me go grab a

drink and then i’ll go do that thing

[Justin Mink]: yep

[Nick McGowan]: things are much more relaxed now and

isn’t an interesting how you can kind of

[Nick McGowan]: get through that stuff with without putting

all that energy to it but i find

[Nick McGowan]: it super interesting where that energy comes

from like i realize growing up that that’s

[Nick McGowan]: how people talk to people that’s how

they did things do you feel like you

[Nick McGowan]: kind of got that tasmanian energy or

the crazy energy from parents or you know

[Nick McGowan]: maybe early mentors or anything or you

just kind of sucking nuts in your head

[Nick McGowan]: and you’re like i need to get

some of the energy out

[Justin Mink]: ah i don’t know man i always

held myself to a super high standard

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: achievement maybe i was like for approval

i don’t know

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: if you want to get into childhood

stuff i but i was my own worst

[Justin Mink]: enemy because i would end up going

so hard and wouldn’t let myself like my

[Justin Mink]: body i’ve had seven ne surgeries

[Nick McGowan]: true

[Justin Mink]: just have my my seventh few weeks

ago both my a c ls were torn

[Justin Mink]: my shoulders torn up all from sports

because i wouldn’t let myself stop because i

[Justin Mink]: held i had this weird like hang

up that i couldn’t stop even if my

[Justin Mink]: body told me to so i’d go

to a point where it broke and that

[Justin Mink]: seems to have happened in life over

and over and over again and i mean

[Justin Mink]: i think we’re all to a degree

wired in a certain way where like our

[Justin Mink]: brains think the saber tooth tiger is

chasing us all the time because

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: all this ship dinging constantly and requiring

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: our constant attention and it’s always like

our drinals are shot we’re always in fighter

[Justin Mink]: flight and you know we’re still the

same basic makeup as we were when our

[Justin Mink]: you know ancient ancestors were roaming the


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Justin Mink]: um and so we get caught in

this state of like it’s just everything gets

[Justin Mink]: shot and exhausted

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: and so you almost have to more

to maintain some equanimity you have to lie

[Justin Mink]: like you said almost condition yourself to

like not respond to the stimuli and just

[Justin Mink]: step back and take control over that

and dip in and out when you feel

[Justin Mink]: like you know it’s it’s valuable so

not be held slave to that all those

[Justin Mink]: influences and distractions and i’ve turned off

so many notifications over fast two years it’s

[Justin Mink]: like it’s gross

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Justin Mink]: it’s gross

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Justin Mink]: you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: it’s stacked against us it really is

it’s like so a

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: rambling answer but man good good question

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: yeah you got to work hard and

be intentional to kind of get to take

[Justin Mink]: a step back

[Nick McGowan]: yeah well i love that sort of

stuff where you and i can talk about

[Nick McGowan]: that like even now we can think

about one of those times where notification goes

[Nick McGowan]: off like i try to even flip

over my phone whenever i have especially a

[Nick McGowan]: podcast interview because then

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: i can’t see the dumb notifications of

like oh you should change this running back

[Nick McGowan]: for this week in your fantasy team

or did you know

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: this person on linked in you’re like

oh no i don’t do so and so

[Nick McGowan]: my brain shouldn’t be going there like

it just shouldn’t

[Justin Mink]: right

[Nick McGowan]: be but we instantly get pulled into

that ship so what i was saying was

[Nick McGowan]: i find it interesting how you and

i can sit here and talk about it

[Nick McGowan]: and look at that situation as like

a third party because it’s so difficult in

[Nick McGowan]: the moment to not pick up your

phone to check your email to check all

[Nick McGowan]: of these things and it’s difficult to

just set up a time and place to

[Nick McGowan]: be able to do stuff without restricting

yourself so i hear different people talk about

[Nick McGowan]: time blocking um and different just tips

and tricks that they use to be able

[Nick McGowan]: to keep their attention on things but

honestly i think it all just differs it’s

[Nick McGowan]: all dependent on what you fucking want

to work with what works for you

[Justin Mink]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: like i’ve tried

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: different things and certain ways work for

me that i kind of piece them together

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: or what have you but what you

find in that you can still not only

[Nick McGowan]: get your work done put out content

and just be you work with your clients

[Nick McGowan]: and have a nice i don’t want

to say relaxing day but move through your

[Nick McGowan]: day without your

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: king hair on fire so what have

you kind of implemented in life to be

[Nick McGowan]: able to do that

[Justin Mink]: i mean i’m very much a flow


[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Justin Mink]: um versa systems

[Nick McGowan]: yah

[Justin Mink]: are a systems thinker you know so

i what i’ve done is really just try

[Justin Mink]: to harness the energy that i have

in that moment

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Justin Mink]: and and ride it as much as

i can um m you know this structure

[Justin Mink]: i have some structure to my day

especially to start the day but i’m feeling

[Justin Mink]: like i’m not in a place where

i can get something done what i used

[Justin Mink]: to do i think what a lot

of people do just look at the screen

[Justin Mink]: for

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: four hours and you know try to

work but you know switch over to doing

[Justin Mink]: wasting their time most of the time


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: like forcing through it whereas if i

get into that mode i’ll just stop go

[Justin Mink]: outside

[Nick McGowan]: smart

[Justin Mink]: for a walk or get a work

out in a read for a little bit

[Justin Mink]: and then see if i can get

back into it and when i’m like in

[Justin Mink]: the morning i have a cup of

coffee and i sit down my computer and

[Justin Mink]: i’m flowing i’ll say screw it no

work out this morning like no meditate no

[Justin Mink]: whatever i’m just going to go because

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: i’m in it now and next thing

you know it’s ten hours later and i’ve

[Justin Mink]: had day so i just i really

just listened to myself and go where the

[Justin Mink]: energy is flowing and i don’t beat

myself up about it

[Nick McGowan]: awesome yeah the grace to be able

to allow yourself to not go to the

[Nick McGowan]: gym because you’re in a flow and

being able

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: to just stick with what you’re doing

i love that sort of outlook i think

[Nick McGowan]: the creative in me really just loves

every bit of flowing and there are certain

[Nick McGowan]: times where i know disciplines and kind

of routines help you mentioned about meditation is

[Nick McGowan]: meditation part of a routine that you

have even if you’re you know not kicking

[Nick McGowan]: it to the side because you’re in

kind of a flow state but just naturally

[Nick McGowan]: in a typical day

[Justin Mink]: yeah i mean i used to meditate

more i’ve lost got into him haf method

[Justin Mink]: for a long time the tomo breathing

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Justin Mink]: and cold exposure and my morning routine

has changed so many time over the past

[Justin Mink]: couple of years many many cases because

i was all these different things for healing

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: it’s trying to fix myself um so

now yeah i meditate occasionally you know i

[Justin Mink]: do stretching and like yoga in the

mornings but i mean not going to lie

[Justin Mink]: there are lots of mornings where i’ll

get out of bed coffee on sit down

[Justin Mink]: in front of the computer and if

i’m feeling it i’m not going to stop

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: and morning is often times quiet there’s

no there’s no distraction and that’s where i

[Justin Mink]: feel it my most creative it’s interesting

like you you read like scientists like andrew

[Justin Mink]: huberman who i love who’s all about

neuro science and kind of bio hacking your

[Justin Mink]: behavior you know and how morning should

be reserved for kind of structure systems task

[Justin Mink]: afternoons or when creativity hits for me

on the morning i’m the most creative and

[Justin Mink]: the most ambitious if i can

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Justin Mink]: get catch that wave in the morning

sometimes i can ride it the rest of

[Justin Mink]: the day and then then everything is

shot i’m like i’ll do everything else when

[Justin Mink]: i can because that means i can

because i know i’m gonna have to i’m

[Justin Mink]: going to have a rough day the

next day or maybe

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: couple of days later

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Justin Mink]: where i’m not going to have that

flow and i need to give myself the

[Justin Mink]: grace to just kind of chill

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: have a chill day

[Nick McGowan]: sure i think of that as the

future me like there are times where i’m

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Justin Mink]: a

[Nick McGowan]: you know future men is going to

hate me for this fuckhim whatever and i

[Nick McGowan]: do the thing

[Justin Mink]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: and then future mes like damn it

past me but there in times where i

[Nick McGowan]: think you just got to you just

got to call it right like look

[Justin Mink]: yep

[Nick McGowan]: i’m here i’m doing this thing this

is what i’m feeling and you follow with

[Nick McGowan]: that and you move through with that

energy and

[Justin Mink]: yep

[Nick McGowan]: we’ve cover a lot of stuff and

justin i appreciate

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: you being on i appreciate you being

open and vulnerable with us what sort of

[Nick McGowan]: advice would you give somebody that’s on

their path towards self mastery

[Justin Mink]: yea it’s it’s a journey it is

a journey and so you know understand that

[Justin Mink]: um really there’s never a destination for

self mastery it is a constant uh you

[Justin Mink]: know the moment you think you know

it all is the moment

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Justin Mink]: you stop learning and so self mastery

is an endeavor that will never that won’t

[Justin Mink]: die until you do and so you

know just a very curious curiosity an insatiable

[Justin Mink]: curiosity versa a desperate desire to improve

is i think the most sustainable healthy way

[Justin Mink]: to to mindset to bring on that

path my experience

[Nick McGowan]: awesome well i appreciate your sharing that

and share with us where people can find

[Nick McGowan]: you where can they connect with you

[Justin Mink]: yeah you can look me up on

linked in i’m really active just look up

[Justin Mink]: justin mink and you’ll find me my

website for e s is es worldwide dot

[Justin Mink]: com forward slash justin dash mink i

am i n k like a like a

[Justin Mink]: fur coat

[Nick McGowan]: i’m sure that’s not the first or

last time you’ve said that

[Justin Mink]: no it’s couple of times yeah

[Nick McGowan]: just a few well man again

[Justin Mink]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: thank you so much for being on

appreciate your time great chatting with you and

[Nick McGowan]: everybody all that information is going to

be in the show notes and thank you

[Nick McGowan]: for being with us today

[Justin Mink]: thanks nick was great great chatting with

you i appreciate being on

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