Episode summary: Eric is a seasoned attorney who has confronted the challenges that arise in billion-dollar business deals and in billion-dollar litigation, and prevailed. He struggled until he learned how attorneys confront adversity.
He had poor grades in high school and college and was rejected by every law school that he applied to until finally being accepted into law school.. just barely. He started as the worst but rose to become the top of his class.
He even wrote a book about it called “Worst to First”.
Guest Name & Bio: Eric Todd Johnson is a seasoned attorney who has confronted the challenges that arise in billion-dollar business deals and in billion-dollar litigation, and prevailed. Until he learned how attorneys confront adversity and prevail, he struggled.
Due to poor grades in high school and college, he was working in housekeeping and was rejected by every law school to which he applied. Once he learned how lawyers are trained to overcome obstacles, he slipped into law school, but his grades were so low that he was literally last in his class.
Regardless, applying the lessons that professionals are taught to prevail over problems, he rose to the top of his law school class in one of the most competitive environments there is.
Eric Todd Johnson
EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION
Transcript
0:01
[Music]
0:08
hello and welcome to the mindset and self mastery show i’m your host nick
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mcgowan and on this show my guests and i unpack the stories that shape us and the lives that we lead on our path to
0:20
self-mastery today on the show we have eric todd johnson eric is a seasoned
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attorney who’s confronted the challenges that arise in billion-dollar business deals and in billion dollar litigation
0:32
and he’s prevailed he struggled until he learned how attorneys confront adversity he had poor
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grades in high school and college and was rejected by every law school that he
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applied to until finally being accepted into one but just barely
0:49
he started as the worst but rose to become the top of his class he even wrote a book about
0:55
it called worst to first i’ll let him tell you the rest of the story so let’s not wait any longer let
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the games begin [Music]
1:09
hello eric welcome to the show how are you doing great and i appreciate you being on i was
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reading through a little bit of your background and i’m excited to get into the back story so why don’t you uh start us off what do you do for a living and
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one thing that most people don’t know about you i’m an attorney by trade
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and i specialize in public-private partnerships and
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something that people a lot of people don’t know about me is
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in the last six months i helped a two billion dollar railroad
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get approved by the surface transportation board which regulates freight rail and i’m also working on standing up a
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nuclear research center um outside of your day job
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well that that is my day job yeah but but a lot of people you know we keep
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that kind of quiet a lot of people don’t know about those things sure sure so how did you get into law how did you become
2:08
a lawyer well i always wanted to go to law school when i was 15 years old my parents sat
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me down they said hey write out some goals and i wrote out the goal of being a an attorney
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that was largely because a neighbor of ours was an attorney and i thought well of him he was one of my
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scout leaders and i thought hey it’d be great to be kind of like he is
2:32
but the reality is i i didn’t take a very direct path to get there tell us a bit about that path how did
2:38
you get there well my grades in high school were very average a 2.69 grade point average
2:45
college was more of the same i graduated from college with a 2.73 grade point average
2:51
and i thought i don’t think that’s good enough to go to law school so i didn’t bother applying
2:56
five years out of college um one of my friends announced hey i got
3:02
into law school and i thought huh that was always my goal
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but despite that being my goal and and working hard at it i i really hadn’t
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moved toward it very much so i thought well i’m going to actually apply and see what
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happens i just assumed i couldn’t get in let me let me see
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so i i took the law school admissions test
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and did well enough that i thought oh maybe and i applied to law schools and every
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law school i applied to rejected me so i was absolutely right my grades were too low and uh
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i went and i spoke with the deans of admissions for each of the different law schools and said hey
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um you know what could i do to improve my my application i think i want to try to
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apply again and they said well you know your grades are really low yeah got that
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yeah yeah but i can’t change those so uh what else what else can i do and
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they they gave me some pointers and i spent a year preparing and i applied again
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and i eventually was able to slip into law school but the problem with that was
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i was literally the very last person that they admitted and i was the very bottom of my class
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and um so knowing that i dove into law school and
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i just i worked hard i thought you know i’m a lot of my classmates were like i’m
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gonna be top ten and i i didn’t say anything like that like i want to stay here
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yeah exactly it’s just like i i just want to do the best i can i didn’t have
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a lot of high aspirations and
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anyway i was in a job interview a few months
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later after grades came out and much to my surprise the interviewer said so how’s it feel to be number one
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in your class and i said i didn’t know i was number one in my class
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and he offered me a job i said thank you very much and i didn’t bother telling him where i started
5:29
i literally i literally jumped from worst to first in law school i have never been to law
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school but i could only imagine that it’s probably not a cakewalk so how did you manage going from the
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bottom to leading the pack that’s a great question so the first
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week or so of law school they they had us in a seminar and they told us about a
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study they had done and in this study they said you know
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we can tell you right now right about where you’re going to finish in law school
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with a high degree of confidence they said our admissions criteria are so effective at forecasting performance
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that we know where you’re going to fall they said there’s two exceptions they said for those of you who will work
6:21
fewer than seven hours a day you will not live up to expectations you will not perform as well as your
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admissions criteria would suggest and now mind you i knew my admissions
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criteria were the worst in the whole law school right and they said
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uh there are those who actually perform better than
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forecasted and those are the people who work more than 11 hours a day
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and i thought wow okay there’s hope i don’t have to finish last
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maybe i can be a little above the bottom if i work really hard and so
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i set out a schedule where i worked 13 hours a day just day in and day out
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and just did my best uh
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law school is unique in the sense that there’s no quizzes
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there’s no exams there’s no intermediate grades that you get during the term
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there’s one three hour comprehensive final that’s it the loan exception to that was our
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writing class which had a midterm paper and a final paper and on the midterm i got a d minus it
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was the lowest d the law school allowed without actually being an f and that was just a pity grade the
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professor just didn’t have the heart to fail someone right out of the shoe yeah you know they
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were like well they may they you know they may wash out
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but but i’ll give them a little hope here right um
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but i learned something from that uh i remember being at my study carol after getting my grade on the midterm back
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and just wondering what i should do it’s like hey i started last i’m still last
8:20
it appears i don’t belong here and
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i at that point i had no hope no expectation
8:33
of anything great but i said to myself you know what
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i came to law school because i wanted to develop certain qualities of
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fairness and justice and i hope by doing so maybe
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i could help some folks i thought you know what forget it i’m not going to be top of my
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class i never imagined i would be um i’m just here to be the best self i
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can be and so i i literally and this is a quote i said to myself
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softly stuff it and i just it was late one night there
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wasn’t very many people around and i just decided you know what i don’t i don’t care what the grades are
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i i’m i’m here for me not for the grades not for the professors right
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and that was significant to
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have an objective of who i wanted to be and to do something because it was what
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i wanted not because i had expectations of anything great it was just
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i wanted to be the best me i could be and i decided this was the way i was going to go about it
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and that really flipped a switch that that was an emotional
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um change that uh that then things fell in line
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after that yeah i could imagine that you had a self-confidence at that point that
10:13
whatever’s gonna happen is gonna happen but i’m gonna do the best damn thing that i can do so where do you think that
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came from was that just you had enough and you’re like you snapped in a good direction or do you think that was part
10:24
of maybe your upbringing and kind of how your parents raised you well certainly my uh
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i grew up with my father listening to zig ziglar napoleon hill
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uh you know earl nightingale brian tracy all the great ones
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and so i was exposed to that in my home and you know the one thing that he drilled
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into me is you can be the person you want to be and so i just
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yeah i just decided hey that’s what i’m going to do i’ll be i’ll be frank despite
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despite having all of that drilled into me at a young age i really had not enjoyed the success
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that i was hoping for up to that point i five years out of college i was working in a hospital as a
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housekeeper you know cleaning toilets polishing floors things like that
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and um but i it it really was i just decided
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you know what i’m going to do this for me because it is what i want
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everything screamed i shouldn’t do this everything screamed just you know i was married i had a daughter
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everything scream oh you should just take care of your family um you’re wasting your time
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i was like no i still want to do this this is what i want to do not because
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i think i’m going to be great at it but because it is what i want there’s a there are a lot of people in
11:57
the world that may think about what they want but that’s about as far as they go
12:03
and there are others that’ll think about it start to take some action on it and the first thing that pops up they just bail like wow it’s maybe it’s not
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supposed to be but you kept pursuing and pursuing even five years later
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you had somebody else that got in you’re like maybe i can still go do this so if you were to give advice to either
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yourself back then or somebody that’s actively going through that now what sort of advice would you give them
12:27
most of the time when we set objectives for ourselves it’s because we want a certain result
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okay a lot of objectives that people set are to have things
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okay oh i’d like a nice house i’d a nice car you know they want prestige in the
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community those are certainly reasons i felt like i wanted to be an attorney
12:54
and um more important than goals to have
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things are goals to be a certain person and it was when i
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determined i’m going to pursue and be the person that i’ve determined i want to be
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then the doors opened up and that that’s hard because
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um just because you are a particular person that doesn’t uh there aren’t necessarily
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rewards with it i mean mother teresa was never rich yeah but she was the person she wanted to be
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mother teresa especially one of those people that just served and served and served but yeah you’re
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totally right she completely broke but rich in so many other ways and that’s a perspective thing you know
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i might be uh you know people living first world they go i wouldn’t want to do any of that stuff
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because i love to have all the luxuries and things that i have and for the most part that might be a fear-based thing where they’re like well i just don’t
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want to be without um and you were kind of without what you thought you were going to be doing for a
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number of years and now i assume that’s a bit of time ago
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um can you give us some sort of um any observations or things that have really
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stood out to you over the course of yourself being an attorney that you would have only learned through
14:20
being an attorney that you wouldn’t have learned had you actually pivoted and gone a different direction
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attorneys are are taught uh how to confront opposition and
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overcome it there’s very in our society there’s very few uh places where you can learn that
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uh in the military we train right the military how to confront and
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prevail uh the same with law enforcement they’re trained that way but in
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outside of those two really lawyers are the only other ones an engineer is not taught
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how to confront opposition and prevail but every engineer confronts opposition
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and it was really that it was really learning that dynamic of
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okay how do you overcome how do you deal with these problems and
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get the results that you want because that’s what that’s what an attorney is paid to do an attorney is paid
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to shoulder the burdens that someone else has and get them the results
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that they want and and so
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uh as an attorney i learned that it really refined the qualities of justice
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fairness truth and equity that i had come to treasure
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and uh so those those are things that that i came to value
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greatly and uh things that i learned let me give an example
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um everybody knows how to deal with diversity to a degree because we all
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confront confronted okay but it’s it’s a little bit like a marriage counselor okay
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everyone has relationship problems but some people are specially trained
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to help work through those issues right okay
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uh as a lawyer i was trained how to help other people
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work through the adversities that they face in life and um become
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you know much better at dealing with that than i otherwise would have been makes a lot of sense i um
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i don’t often think about the occupations that kind of put you into a fight or flight
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mode but it’s easy to think about the ones that will automatically put you in a fight or flight like being a fireman
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or something can’t just casually stroll into a fire and be like to do i’m going to save these people and hopefully the
16:58
place don’t burn down that’s a little different but throughout your day-to-day how do you
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keep your um your tenacity going and how do you manage your mindset going from case to
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case or working long hours to do this stuff uh are you asking me about a daily routine
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maybe not a specific specifically about water yeah more broader when you think of the course of time because everybody
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no matter what you do you have days where you just don’t want to do it you have other clients maybe you’re like i really don’t
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want to help this person so how do you manage your mindset to be able to still give the same amount of effort and stick
17:34
to you so one of the keys to that again is having
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objectives about who i want to be because what when you have objectives
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about what you want to have it’s like thanksgiving dinner and once you’ve stuffed yourself you
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just can’t put any more in right and you’re just like i don’t care hey do you want a chocolate
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thank you no another piece of pie oh delicious sorry right um that’s the way it is with
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things you you can you can actually get satiated um
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with with who we are it’s it’s it’s a little different
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uh along those lines let me let me address something that um
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that helps me that i found also can be very useful to others
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when we are setting goals okay let’s say we have a goal for a nice
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house okay you can sit in your mind you can
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envision that house some people have a vision board a dream board they’ll cut a picture out of a out of a magazine and
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put it on the board well you can vision that you can close your eyes you can you can envision that
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house very clearly however
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what is in your mind is not the house itself okay there’s a gap between
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what’s in here and the actual house now let me talk about
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a different type of thing fairness okay
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when you close your eyes and you envision fairness
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fairness only exists one place that’s in here
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and when you envision fairness fairness itself is created
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let me let me turn to love the same way okay when you envision love
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you actually create love you generate it okay
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and there’s no time lag it’s boom it’s there right now you have absolute control over that
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so some of the things about ourselves that may be affiliated with the house is
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let’s say the feelings of security and repose
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you can live in a castle and still feel threatened uh but what it really represents is
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security and repose and so a more direct way to
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move toward the house you want more direct than envisioning the house
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itself is actually imagining security and repose associated with that
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house and that is a more direct path because you’re actually generating within yourself
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those things that the house represents the house is just an outward manifestation
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of that inward security and um
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so what you want to do is you want to identify goals like that about yourself
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and then you want to envision those and those are a more direct path to the
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things outside that you want than than actually just imagining
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those outside things oh and just saying well be nice to have that you can have that mental picture
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but if you don’t actually tie to it and yeah that mental picture’s just a nice picture in your head that’s about it
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yeah let me let me explain that a little further so napoleon hill is noted for saying
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what the mind can conceive and believe it can achieve
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and that is absolutely true but let me explain the difference between conceiving and believing because
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that is the missing link for most people okay um let’s say you were to stretch a
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20-foot long uh 2×4 on the lawn and say
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hey you know can you walk across that two by four most people would say well it’s a little
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narrow but yeah i can do that right and they’d stride across it and back and forth pretty easily maybe even you know
22:15
to show off do a little jump or something like that right and then you’re like well okay what if
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it’s three feet off the ground ah probably pretty much the same but if you suspend that over a hundred
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foot chasm the same board now you tell yourself well i know i can
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do it i did it on the lawn but there’s a part of you
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that whoa wait a sec okay you step on to it and all of a sudden you find yourself leaning to the
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right or to the left right and you’re like whoa what am i doing and you take little teeny steps and you just scooch
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forward right you literally risk falling off because
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there’s a difference between what you conceive and what you believe
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okay and as much as you’re telling yourself i know i can do it i know i can do it i
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know i can do it until it gets in your heart that you’re like well yeah of course i can do it
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okay there’s there’s a gap between the conceiving and the believing and um
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that is what we have to work on in order to translate
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our goals into reality is that gap are there ways that you found that work
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for you to find that gap and work on that again i would say yeah you turn you turn
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to what’s internal so let me talk a little bit about our thoughts and our feelings okay so our
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physical bodies we’re all familiar with the way the physical world works
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we are finite i can only be in one location at one
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time for me to move from one place to another takes time
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okay i am only present in the now as much as as sci-fi and movies talk
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about moving forward or backward in time right it just doesn’t happen okay that’s what i mean by finite
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okay i’m i’m limited as to location and to time
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my thoughts on the other hand are infinite okay
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i can remember last christmas i can move backward in thought
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i can project forward to this next weekend and what i’m going to do and i can plan for it
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so in my thought i am not limited as to time i can move forward and backward in time and thought the same with location
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here i am sitting in my office but i can imagine being at the eiffel tower in paris
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right now even though my body is here i can imagine myself way over there or maybe i wanna maybe in my thought i want
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to travel to hawaii okay so my thought is literally infinite it
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is not bounded by location or by time the way my body is
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okay uh our emotions are much the same my my father-in-law was a navy salt
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and you know he would write letters love letters to my mother-in-law
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uh he would be in hong kong aboard ship and even though he was half a world away
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the love did not dissipate because of the distance nor did it diminish because of a time
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lapse right he he loved her just as much maybe even more because of the separation
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and so our thoughts are infinite our feelings are infinite
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and uh we also have a spiritual capacity that
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we’ll just assert is infinite without going into the details and uh but we do have a finite body okay
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and so the key is to apply our infinite thought feelings and spirit and align those
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things with what we want and then those things tend to
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come about in the physical world
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and that is that that is uh it’s getting those four things
26:40
aligned and uh i didn’t come up with this on my own uh this actually you know comes from the
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teachings of jesus christ where he says love the lord thy god with all thy heart
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mind soul and strength both the book of mark the book of luke refer to that
26:59
okay the heart are our feelings the mind our thoughts
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our soul is our spirit and our strength is our physical body
27:10
right he identified all four and it’s really getting getting those
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four things aligned is is how we best move forward
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when the internal all gets aligned and then we add our physical action to
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it then it impacts external results it’s like a cascading effect
27:35
yes yep beautiful i love that term i hadn’t heard that cascading effect that’s wonderful yeah it’s uh you know i think
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that there are a lot of people that get stopped at one of those where maybe they’re working on their mind but
27:47
they’re not working on their body where their health is starting to go down that takes their mind down with it
27:53
but to be able to line those things up if everybody was at a stasis of everything’s all right then we could all
27:59
grow accordingly but it’s the sub levels of that where they’re not at stasis
28:04
they’re not there yet they haven’t aligned those things are there things that you’ve found maybe in your daily routines or just throughout life that
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you’re like this is how i align myself back up with these four sure abs absolutely so i take uh
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time every day uh to spend time with in holy writ
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i’m a christian so i spend time in the bible and in the christian
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scripture uh i also try to spend time though in scripture from other faiths
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uh the hindu the bhagavad gita yoga sutras of patanjali the vedas
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the zenda vesta from the zoroastrians the quran from the muslims
28:48
um the tibetan book of the dead now i don’t have time to read all of those every day i was going to say is that a
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daily thing like at least one page of each but every day you know i’ll i will
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i will spend time in my own faith and then some time in another faith okay
29:07
because i find they all um touch on the great truths and are
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mutually reinforcing and i find that very helpful
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um i then of course spend time you know in prayer or meditation every
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day and um
29:29
i find that time uh of meditation that if i will write down the thoughts that come to my mind
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that uh actually more flows to me
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and i get even better thoughts and that’s very gratifying uh but i will uh
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you know i’ll take about an hour a day or more doing that i also
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you know try to spend a little bit of time uh just on the physical i live
30:02
near mountains and so uh in the summer time i’ll hike or mountain bike
30:09
uh in the winter time i’ll snowshoe um and that’s that’s stuff i do for
30:16
the aerobic exercise i also you know work on the upper body a little bit i
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have some rings that i hang in the garage that i i go out and play on you know just to
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just to work on those type of things yeah literally you your mind and your body which all helps your spirit yes
30:36
absolutely yeah absolutely wow are there uh
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are there any key moments throughout life that you can look back at and maybe you’ve talked to other people
30:47
about it or maybe you’ve talked to yourself about it but moments you can look at and go that moment right there that was one of those times that
30:53
completely changed me you know certainly i i already told you one of those of just
30:59
so a friend of mine in law school greg uh
31:05
after that day when i said stuff it uh
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he it’s again it’s it’s a time when there’s not as many people around and he kind of
31:17
comes up and all softly says you know what he says i was the next to last person
31:23
admitted to our class i said really he said yeah
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he said yeah and he told me when he was admitted and indeed it was just shortly before i was
31:36
and that ate at him right
31:41
and so unfortunately at the end of our first term uh he
31:46
dropped out because he didn’t feel like he belonged
31:52
i never i never said boo to him about when i was admitted or anything like that right i just
31:58
really oh you know i just commiserated with him and and whatnot and went on my way
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and so a lot of um a lot of success
32:10
uh is not just the mental process but it is managing the emotional dynamic
32:17
that we have to deal with my friend greg was great but emotionally
32:25
he uh he bailed manage your mindset manage your emotions people
32:31
had enough said when it comes to that i think it all ties together too because if somebody is a strong-minded person
32:37
but they’re a little baby when it comes to emotions and they’re only really as strong-minded
32:42
as they believe that they are and for the most part the people that have the uh
32:49
the balance in life are the ones that are successful so i i really appreciate you being on the show appreciate you
32:55
getting into the background of what you’ve done and kind of what you’ve gone through and you’ve dropped some incredible wisdom on us so thank you for
33:02
that uh what’s one piece of advice you’d give for somebody that’s on their path towards self mastery
33:10
you know uh about four years ago my my oldest son said you know i’m going
33:16
to write a book and i said ah that sounds great
33:21
you should do that but i thought uh what what are the odds that he was 19 at the time i thought
33:27
what are the odds he’s going to get that completed and i thought maybe not real great i said you know what
33:33
i’m going to write a book too and so uh
33:39
i set out to to write a book about the things that i
33:44
had learned about overcoming adversity how to prevail over problems
33:51
and how to achieve your goals despite having failed at them numerous times before
33:58
and uh you know after a year or so i say to my
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son how’s your book coming right well you know i haven’t made a whole lot of progress lately
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and i said well i’m still working on my i’m still working on and it took me about two years to get it
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written and you know i shared it with him had him you know kind of read it over read it
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through see what he thought about it and uh kind of give me his pointers
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and then it took another two years to find someone who would publish it and
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get it out okay and so my advice is
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half the battle is showing up if you don’t show up
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and keep at it day after day you can be sure it ain’t gonna happen
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and um to my great surprise uh the book that i
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wrote entitled worst the first was picked up by nightingale conant nightingale conant
35:05
has specialized in audio programs for about 60 years names
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like napoleon hill earl nightingale
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obviously that’s where nightingale nightingale koenig comes from um you know zig ziglar had programs
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there dr wayne dyer dr deepak chopra jack canfield
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you know a lot of great legends in the self-improvement area have published with nightingale conan so i was so
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excited when they picked up my book and it’s now available on audible worst
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the first and it really is just a testament to you know keep moving forward to to keep
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persisting with something because i spent
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i spent a year trying to find someone who would publish it after it was written and finally was able to uh to
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lock into it more adversity to go through right yeah absolutely well you kind of uh led it nicely into
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the last bit of this where can people find you and connect you and find the book yeah worcester first it’s on
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audible and just type in worse the first it should pop up my name eric todd johnson
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i’m the author and uh you know nick i would encourage you to get a copy
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and listen to it i think some of the stuff we’ve touched upon is is explained in greater detail
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and i think it’ll be useful to you and to all of your listeners i agree absolutely and all that um the
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links will be in the show notes everybody go check out the book where’s first eric again thank you very much for
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being on the show i appreciate your time thank you very much nick [Music]
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another great conversation on today’s episode of the mindset and self-mastery show
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adversity isn’t something any of us is a stranger to but it does look different
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for everyone now imagine if eric did what his buddy greg did and just freaking bail
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does that sound like something you’ve done before i know it is for me i’ve bailed on many
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things in life yeah there are times i’ve regretted those but i understand that’s part of my
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story and we’ve all bailed on something but we can all work to not bail on ourselves ever again
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this was a great conversation and i’m really looking forward to checking out eric’s book worst the first and i’d
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suggest you do as well so what did you think about today’s conversation i’d love to hear your thoughts on everything
37:40
we got into and if you enjoyed the episode please jump over to itunes and subscribe rate and leave a 5 star review
37:47
it helps us be found and it definitely helps others be healed if you really enjoyed the show today go ahead and
37:53
share it with a friend a family member somebody you really like because you know this is an awesome podcast and
37:59
they’ll really like it don’t you think you can check out the show notes for more information contact info for eric
38:05
and check out other episodes on the mindset and selfmasteryshow.com
38:11
as well as our youtube channel just go to youtube and type in the mindset and
38:16
self mastery show and we’ll come right up and thanks again aaron for being real being honest and vulnerable with us and
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sharing your adversity story and i’d like to thank our sponsors the manly club and the powerhouse men brotherhood
38:30
men do you consider yourself to be a powerhouse man the criteria for becoming one is simple live with virtue and do
38:37
good work you see a powerhouse man builds his life he doesn’t settle for it he attacks mediocrity at the root and
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that’s exactly what we do in the powerhouse man brotherhood visit themanleyclub.com today for details and
38:51
thank you to you yes you thank you for hanging out with us today i really really appreciate it and with that
38:58
remember your mindset matters and so do you
