Episode summary: Jeff Wickersham has become a master at mindset. Mindset is what helps guide our life and achieve our desires.
He is very self-disciplined with his phone usage, morning routines, creating little goals, celebrating successes, and overall living life to the fullest.
Jeff shares his mindset secrets and wants to see everyone live their best life and live their dreams.
Guest Name & Bio: Recognized by FOX, MarketWatch, and bestselling author Jeff Wickersham is a peak-performance mindset coach, sought-after speaker, and creator of The Morning Fire™.
The secret of his success is his own harrowing and humbling experience with rock bottom just a few years ago.
He was battling substance abuse, his marriage was on the brink of divorce, and his business was crumbling but he was committed to getting back up and working. In just 18 months, he elevated every single area of his life to a level of success greater than he’d ever known in the past.
It turns out, the ‘quick fixes that are so glaringly missing from the wellness industry are consistency and accountability.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION
[Nick McGowan]: Hey Jeff welcome to the show man. How you doing? [Jeff Wickersham]: nick i am doing fantastic thanks forhaving me
[Nick McGowan]: absolutely well look i’m excited that you’re on lookin through your linked in look though [Nick McGowan]: your website and just kind of going through and getting prepped for the show one [Nick McGowan]: thing that really skipped my mind was that you literally live in basically my old [Nick McGowan]: stomping grounds so right off the bat we start shooting the ship about the phillies [Nick McGowan]: how they [Jeff Wickersham]: i [Nick McGowan]: just lost the marlin no i didn’t know this thing will probably come out in [Nick McGowan]: the fall but they shouldn’t have lostthat game
[Jeff Wickersham]: oh [Nick McGowan]: i digress [Jeff Wickersham]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: man i appreciate you being on don’t you kick things off tell us what you [Nick McGowan]: do for living and one thing that most people don’t know about you that’s maybe [Nick McGowan]: a little odd or bizarre [Jeff Wickersham]: absolutely so i am an accountability [Nick McGowan]: right [Jeff Wickersham]: mind set in peak performance coach [Nick McGowan]: oh [Jeff Wickersham]: one thing that is odd [Nick McGowan]: oh [Jeff Wickersham]: or people aren’t completely aware about meis in twenty twenty one i actually acted
[Jeff Wickersham]: in a movie as a security guard [Nick McGowan]: nice [Jeff Wickersham]: that is coming out in the nearfuture so that was kind of a
[Nick McGowan]: ah [Jeff Wickersham]: neat neat event [Nick McGowan]: that’s pretty cool how did that comeabout
[Jeff Wickersham]: i knew the [Nick McGowan]: oh [Jeff Wickersham]: director and he said you know i’dlove to have you in the movie it
[Jeff Wickersham]: was actually a speaking part two soit’s just so interesting to
[Nick McGowan]: wow [Jeff Wickersham]: go behind the scenes and get shotfrom different angles of course i was nervous
[Nick McGowan]: yah [Jeff Wickersham]: it’s never been in that element [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: but it was it was a prettycool experience
[Nick McGowan]: i bet man that’s cool right offthe bat i think it’s all about it’s
[Nick McGowan]: all about the connections if you didn’tknow the director and you weren’t friendly with
[Nick McGowan]: them you didn’t know who you wereyou wouldn’t be like uh yeah my buddy
[Nick McGowan]: jeff he could probably do this butthen for you to be kind of nervous
[Nick McGowan]: through it makes total sense like anybodythat would say now i’d be good i’d
[Nick McGowan]: get in [Jeff Wickersham]: oh [Nick McGowan]: i’d crush it bullshit totally different whenyou’re in that spot so how did you
[Nick McGowan]: manage your mind [Jeff Wickersham]: oh [Nick McGowan]: set not only knowing like hey igot the part but
[Jeff Wickersham]: oh [Nick McGowan]: fun now we need to do it [Jeff Wickersham]: practice practice practice right [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: my lines and that’s and then thenallowing myself to be humble enough and have
[Jeff Wickersham]: humility to be coached [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: right in the process you know thedirector would say i do this a little
[Jeff Wickersham]: bit differently and i didn’t know ithink that’s such a misconception that we have
[Jeff Wickersham]: is ere gonna start something were gonnabe amazing at it now news flash you’re
[Jeff Wickersham]: going to suck when you start [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: and that’s okay give yourself grace [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: that’s where everybody starts at we alwayssee these finished products and we think like
[Jeff Wickersham]: they’re in ly given these gifts andtalents
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: are they talented most likely but they’vepracticed so many
[Nick McGowan]: oh [Jeff Wickersham]: times so that’s just the biggest lessonis being humble enough to take coaching
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: when you’re doing so thing new andthen understand you’re going to suck and just
[Jeff Wickersham]: do it over and over again thenyou’ll get better at it
[Nick McGowan]: that’s a good point i want tokind of write on that a little bit
[Nick McGowan]: because i think that’s a thing thata lot of us we know it you
[Nick McGowan]: know we know that yeah you’re probablygoing to suck the suck of this thing
[Nick McGowan]: pretty bad when you first start butit still stops people and i’ve found that
[Nick McGowan]: just continuously moving along and doing thenext thing works for me because there’re certain
[Nick McGowan]: times where i look and go allrigh we i’m going to do this thing
[Nick McGowan]: and i’m like holy ship this isfucking mount ever that i have to climb
[Nick McGowan]: and looking at that you’re like howam i going to do all of that
[Nick McGowan]: but if you go off i juststand the hell up from the sofa that’s
[Nick McGowan]: at least step number one if iput my right foot in front of the
[Nick McGowan]: other then that’s the next couple ofsteps so working through stuff like that and
[Nick McGowan]: i know you do this with yourclients what sort of stuff
[Jeff Wickersham]: oh [Nick McGowan]: do you break down with people [Jeff Wickersham]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: just right off the bat when youkind of get into that
[Jeff Wickersham]: i love the mountain story right andlooking up to that peak
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: and so many times the mind willsay holy ship
[Nick McGowan]: oh [Jeff Wickersham]: how the heck are you going toget there
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: and that’s what stops so many peopleis because they can’t see a path where
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: if you break it down and ilove to break it down with with clients
[Jeff Wickersham]: i do it myself right i’m apractitioner i don’t teach out a fucking book
[Jeff Wickersham]: i do myself first and then i [Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: am able to teach experience authenticity buti love to say just focus on the
[Jeff Wickersham]: easiest possible step you can [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: take and it’s almost laughable like i’mgoing to take a step like that but
[Jeff Wickersham]: take it and then celebrate it andthen take the next one because then you
[Jeff Wickersham]: start to to your point build momentum [Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: start to feel that energy rise yourconfidence builds a little bit as you take
[Jeff Wickersham]: a step another one and then threeand then all of a sudden you’re moving
[Jeff Wickersham]: towards that peak where if you sitthere and say well how i’m going to
[Jeff Wickersham]: get there ninety nine percent [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: of a time the way you startis not how you’re going to get there
[Nick McGowan]: we had all [Jeff Wickersham]: right it’s called optionality right and [Nick McGowan]: yes [Jeff Wickersham]: navy seals have that mindset [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: like just find an option find anotherpath if ten doors are shut just go
[Jeff Wickersham]: the eleventh and continue down that routebut break it down to the easiest laughable
[Jeff Wickersham]: possible first step take it celebrate andthen do another and then you’ll you’ll start
[Jeff Wickersham]: that process of momentum [Nick McGowan]: i did that man i like toplay devils to have a kid on the
[Nick McGowan]: show and i often times we’ll thinkabout that one dude that’s listening going yeah
[Nick McGowan]: fuck you guys i’ve tried this ship [Jeff Wickersham]: oh [Nick McGowan]: before i’ve done that i’ve done thatthey’re just making excuses i’d hoped at some
[Nick McGowan]: and i get an email from whoeverthat random person is that’s like you you’ve
[Nick McGowan]: fucking [Jeff Wickersham]: that’s great [Nick McGowan]: done this to me a couple oftimes but from coaches perspective i want to
[Nick McGowan]: give a little bit of a peakbehind the curtain because for that person and
[Nick McGowan]: other people that think you okay i’veheard that before i get it and they
[Nick McGowan]: continuously make excuses that you and iboth know in client sessions you can smell
[Nick McGowan]: that ship from a mile away andstart to come up and
[Jeff Wickersham]: right [Nick McGowan]: you’re like so we have to getthrough this first before we can actually handle
[Nick McGowan]: the problem so how would you suggestand i guess this is kind of a
[Nick McGowan]: two part piece of it how doyou work with
[Jeff Wickersham]: oh [Nick McGowan]: your clients to be able to goi hear on the bullshit but i want
[Nick McGowan]: you to look at it and smellit so that we don’t have to look
[Nick McGowan]: at it again and then go backand work on that stuff
[Jeff Wickersham]: what [Nick McGowan]: and then how you work on itfor yourself because of the audience themselves thinking
[Nick McGowan]: fuck i’ve heard this before i’ve donethat before we want to be able to
[Nick McGowan]: help them break that down because iget that once you stand up and you
[Nick McGowan]: start to move it’s easier but thatinitial movement what typically takes people the longest
[Nick McGowan]: to do so from that perspective ofyou’re coaching one of your clients nd you’re
[Nick McGowan]: like her you on your bullshit andi want to love you through it but
[Nick McGowan]: how you as a person will beable to do that on your own
[Jeff Wickersham]: one is having an awareness of howmuch energy it takes to start
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: right and it’s just like the spaceshuttle lifting off right it uses so much
[Jeff Wickersham]: energy that that first couple seconds toget up and off the platform it’s the
[Jeff Wickersham]: same thing in life [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: right and if you would just thinkto yourself okay i just need to muster
[Jeff Wickersham]: energy for like three or four secondsto get the heck up and enter is
[Jeff Wickersham]: such a powerful thing and so manypeople are missing that so many people in
[Jeff Wickersham]: life are flat lined [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: where they’re just they’re not great they’regood they’re not crappy they’re just average
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: and they don’t amp up their energylevel so that is one of the fundamental
[Jeff Wickersham]: things i bring to the equation wheni work with my clients
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: you know passion energy speaking to itand you feel that we feel it as
[Jeff Wickersham]: in our exchange right here [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: they inherently can’t sit there and stillsay the same thing
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: because they’re there they feel that exchangeand they’re like all right you know what
[Jeff Wickersham]: i don’t know what you’re on [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: but you’re right i’m getting up [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: and it’s just that energy exchange canbe so incredibly powerful
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: that the non verbal language the theexcitement the enthusiasm rubs off and they’re like
[Jeff Wickersham]: you know i’m getting off the couchnow like
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: i’m doing it let’s go so thatthe energy is such a critical component to
[Jeff Wickersham]: ting off that couch getting movement first [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: as well as having [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: somebody else assist you in that process [Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: it’s incredibly powerful [Nick McGowan]: yeah i totally agree with that thatenergy is huge it takes a lot sometimes
[Nick McGowan]: for people to manufacture that themselves becausethey’re stuck in their own heads where if
[Nick McGowan]: you have an itch on your legyou’re not really think about yo’re gonna go
[Nick McGowan]: there’s a nitch and you scratch itand just subconsciously go about that so it’s
[Nick McGowan]: interesting when we we as people justallow ourselves to stagnate and just sit there
[Nick McGowan]: and not do anything do you findthat that really stems from fear or do
[Nick McGowan]: you find that it stems from somethingelse
[Jeff Wickersham]: fear is a one of the componentsi would say the other one is we’re
[Jeff Wickersham]: just so kind of safe and [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: we’re always just playing at middle ofthe road i like to say the large
[Jeff Wickersham]: portion of society is a frog ina boiling pot of water and they just
[Jeff Wickersham]: don’t [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: know it right now they’re [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: not aware of it right and there’sso many things that society tells us we’ve
[Jeff Wickersham]: been taught that take us down thatroad towards a quiet desperation anxiety stress
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: overwhelm all of these things that we’vebeen taught we should chase after we’ve been
[Jeff Wickersham]: taught to consume or do a trulyaren’t letting us step into the best version
[Jeff Wickersham]: of ourselves personally or [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: professionally and it’s been opening for mei always say like i’ve unplugged from the
[Jeff Wickersham]: matrix [Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: and now i’m like i can’t goback and i don’t ever want to go
[Jeff Wickersham]: back in but there are things thatjust consistently day after day were fed were
[Jeff Wickersham]: were shown [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: and people are plugged in there andcan’t get out of their own way
[Nick McGowan]: now i know you’ve had some majorchanges that have happened and a lot of
[Nick McGowan]: growth that has happened say over thepast
[Jeff Wickersham]: a [Nick McGowan]: couple of years is that one ofthose things that you’ve unplugged yourself from social
[Nick McGowan]: media and from the new s andthings of that sort
[Jeff Wickersham]: absolutely like that’s one of the foundingmethodologies i have personally and then when i
[Jeff Wickersham]: work with my client is when youwake up in the morning control that first
[Jeff Wickersham]: thirty minutes [Nick McGowan]: don’t touch your phone [Jeff Wickersham]: no [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: news no and other than turn offthe alarm if you’re
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: using an alarm it’s like a tractorbeam from the death star like
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: trying to pull you in but nodistractions stack these quick winds water exercise meditation
[Jeff Wickersham]: journaling all these things that make youfeel good
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: then you’re so much more equipped tobeing able to take on what the world
[Jeff Wickersham]: throws at you and we know itthrows a heck of a lot at you
[Jeff Wickersham]: so stack in those winds so vital [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: and away from the news the negativitythose things i like to just put up
[Jeff Wickersham]: that force field that i need aworking understanding of what’s going on in the
[Jeff Wickersham]: world but i’m not going to watchit for two hours at night
[Nick McGowan]: yeah and they go why can’t isleep because you’re king watched fox news for
[Nick McGowan]: three hours that’s why [Jeff Wickersham]: all right [Nick McGowan]: that’s [Jeff Wickersham]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: that’s a whole different story i knowyou are tony robins guy i am as
[Nick McGowan]: well and i think of priming ithink that was one of the things that
[Nick McGowan]: stood out to me years ago isone how he gets up and runs out
[Nick McGowan]: in the middle of the cold oceanat dum o clock in the morning now
[Nick McGowan]: i’m in florida maybe fifteen mile fromthe ocean be one hell of a run
[Nick McGowan]: each morning [Jeff Wickersham]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: but [Jeff Wickersham]: right [Nick McGowan]: you think it’s the same way youknow you got to prime yourself you got
[Nick McGowan]: to get your ship together and it’sfunny i was actually talking to a client
[Nick McGowan]: the other day about putting their phonedown in the morning i have my phone
[Nick McGowan]: next to me too i have analarm that set and there are times where
[Nick McGowan]: i find myself just on instagram i’mlike how did i even get here i
[Nick McGowan]: literally just turned the thing [Jeff Wickersham]: m [Nick McGowan]: off and i’ve [Jeff Wickersham]: m [Nick McGowan]: started to just turn it off [Jeff Wickersham]: no [Nick McGowan]: just from where it is and leaveit but i find it interesting to be
[Nick McGowan]: able to discipline yourself with that sortof stuff and not being pulled back in
[Nick McGowan]: to kind of land this plane inthe sense the conversation having the other day
[Nick McGowan]: reminded the client look once you dothat you remind yourself of all the things
[Nick McGowan]: that you think you are and youhave no idea what’s unknown at that point
[Nick McGowan]: but when you get up you towork through your routine of getting your mind
[Nick McGowan]: right getting your body right even juststretching and doing some squats or something like
[Nick McGowan]: that and you’re not inundated with hati’ve got these three meetings today i got
[Nick McGowan]: to get this thing out i gotto do this with the kids all that
[Nick McGowan]: blah blah blah you’re able to justkind of work through that you know it’s
[Nick McGowan]: taken me years to get to thepoint where i have a morning and an
[Nick McGowan]: evening routine and i’m not always hundredpercent on it but are you in the
[Nick McGowan]: same boat you do the same thingwhere you have a morning and evening routine
[Nick McGowan]: and coach your clients in the sameway what
[Jeff Wickersham]: that’s the foundation where i start because [Nick McGowan]: awesome [Jeff Wickersham]: you can’t control the life that wehave right
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: you just can’t control it so butyou can control those book i like to
[Jeff Wickersham]: call them the book ends right [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: last thirty minutes of the day first [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: thirty it’s in the morning digital sunsetpreparing for a good night sleep i mean
[Jeff Wickersham]: sleep is where our bodies our mindsrepair
[Nick McGowan]: oh [Jeff Wickersham]: themselves so many times people are gettingcrappy night sleep right
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: on f get less than seven hourssleep you’re like doubling your risk of cancer
[Jeff Wickersham]: i mean that’s a scary thing mymom passed away from breast cancer seven and
[Jeff Wickersham]: a half years ago i’m making [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: sure i’m getting more than seven nowright and those things that
[Nick McGowan]: buck [Jeff Wickersham]: set you up for success celebrate yoursuccesses and then get a great night sleep
[Jeff Wickersham]: and then wake up in the morningto your point it is the greatest gift
[Jeff Wickersham]: you can give yourself but you canalso give the loved ones around you right
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: two sons wife when i get upand take care of myself stack all these
[Jeff Wickersham]: winds i’m in control i’m excited i’min a sense of purpose and focus and
[Jeff Wickersham]: power [Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: ow do you think i act tothem when they’re up i’m smiling i’m like
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: that’s such a different way than howso many people they lose control of their
[Jeff Wickersham]: day before their feet even hit thecarpet
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: of the floor out of bed [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: because they’re checking their phone their checkingemails they’re getting this negativity
[Nick McGowan]: oh [Jeff Wickersham]: maybe from social channels be the newsthey’re stepping on the floor and they’re already
[Jeff Wickersham]: down the path of despair anxiousness stressoverwhelmed and they wonder why their day doesn’t
[Jeff Wickersham]: turn [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: out well well you didn’t you didn’tgive
[Nick McGowan]: maddening [Jeff Wickersham]: yourself the greatest gift you can giveyourself
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: is taking time [Nick McGowan]: oh [Jeff Wickersham]: in the morning and [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: everybody says well you need to helpother people bullshit need to take care of
[Jeff Wickersham]: yourself first then you show up somuch better for all those around you
[Nick McGowan]: oh my god ah somebody i forgetif it was my show or if i
[Nick McGowan]: was on somebody else’s show but somebodysaid it’s like when you’re on an airplane
[Nick McGowan]: they tell you you got to putyour mask on before somebody else’s and remember
[Nick McGowan]: thinking first time i heard that iwas don’t know a teen agent flying somewhere
[Nick McGowan]: and i was like well it’s fuckedup i would imagine going down and my
[Nick McGowan]: mom being like wait a minute igot to put my ship on but it
[Jeff Wickersham]: right [Nick McGowan]: makes total sense where you got tobe okay so you can take care of
[Nick McGowan]: the people around you and and it’sonce people actually go through and start to
[Nick McGowan]: do some of that they realize thatoh i’m not a chitty person but i
[Nick McGowan]: have been in the mornings because youjust get so aggravated and upset or whatever
[Nick McGowan]: or you get just lost in ohi have to do this thing and you’re
[Nick McGowan]: not able to actually look at thestuff that’s around you now i’m sure this
[Nick McGowan]: wasn’t something you’ve done for years andyears and years and years and years because
[Nick McGowan]: i know you’ve had a little bitof a story so let’s take a little
[Nick McGowan]: bit of a back step why don’tyou tell us what that story looks like
[Nick McGowan]: how you became who you are now [Jeff Wickersham]: i always love that this question becausepeople again see a finished product and
[Nick McGowan]: hmm [Jeff Wickersham]: i was a shy introverted kid wheni was grown up i mean my late
[Jeff Wickersham]: mother used [Nick McGowan]: a [Jeff Wickersham]: to tell me a story when iwas six wanted to go play to buddy’s
[Jeff Wickersham]: house [Nick McGowan]: oh [Jeff Wickersham]: she had to come with me becausei was so shy i wouldn’t go over
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: right and then it transferred to highschool and i broke out of a little
[Jeff Wickersham]: bit due to sports but senior classon the male side i was voted
[Nick McGowan]: what [Jeff Wickersham]: biggest complainer [Nick McGowan]: oh [Jeff Wickersham]: so like you think about where i’mat now totally
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: different i had that life event asi shared i lost my mom a breast
[Jeff Wickersham]: cancer seven and a half years agoand when you watch the woman that brought
[Jeff Wickersham]: you into this world leave this worldat fundamentally
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: changes you at your core right andi had some other iterations i remember when
[Jeff Wickersham]: i was a gym owner i leftcorporate american and one more and i woke
[Jeff Wickersham]: up after doing kind of the thingsi did my twenties and thirties and hanging
[Jeff Wickersham]: out late with the buddies drinking andi was coaching in eight am fitness class
[Jeff Wickersham]: and my wife’s like how are yougoing to coach that class when you think
[Jeff Wickersham]: of alchol [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: i was like that’s a pretty prettygood truth bob but
[Nick McGowan]: good [Jeff Wickersham]: but [Nick McGowan]: question [Jeff Wickersham]: love it and then [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: good question and then i started tothink about okay what am i doing on
[Jeff Wickersham]: a daily basis and now it’s justa constant game of
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: how do i get better every daysome day i’m going to have dips i’m
[Jeff Wickersham]: goin to have valleys and that’s allright give myself grace but continue to do
[Jeff Wickersham]: things that set me up success andare good for my mind and body that’s
[Jeff Wickersham]: why this year [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: twenty twenty two i decided no alcoholat all and that’s the first break i’m
[Jeff Wickersham]: going to take for a year sincei was seventeen eighteen years
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: old [Nick McGowan]: wow i love when people do thosethings because they want to like there are
[Nick McGowan]: some people i talk to they’re [Jeff Wickersham]: hm [Nick McGowan]: like no alcohol no drugs know thisand it’s like well why because no well
[Nick McGowan]: it doesn’t make any sense give mean actual reason why you’re doing it you
[Nick McGowan]: know almost like when we were whenwe were little and i say that because
[Nick McGowan]: we both kind of grew up inthe same area where there are a lot
[Nick McGowan]: of people that were straight edge becausethey thought it was the cool thing to
[Nick McGowan]: do and there were people that didlots of drugs because they thought it was
[Nick McGowan]: the cool thing to do so allin all people thought it was the cool
[Nick McGowan]: thing to do on either side andi think people don’t realize
[Jeff Wickersham]: hm [Nick McGowan]: why they’re doing it so for youi can understand that you have certain reasons
[Nick McGowan]: and if you want to get intothose you totally can but i think of
[Nick McGowan]: this is just another piece of whoyou are and who you’ve become and who
[Nick McGowan]: you’re working on and so let’s talkabout let’s talk about that tough time that
[Nick McGowan]: you went through with your mom ilike to ask what were some of the
[Nick McGowan]: key moments or episodes that happened throughoutlife that were pivotal moments for you and
[Nick McGowan]: i can tell right off the batthat that would be i i love my
[Nick McGowan]: mom the death we had a terriblegrowing up relationship
[Jeff Wickersham]: m [Nick McGowan]: but i wouldn’t want to see yourgo so i couldn’t imagine the pain that
[Nick McGowan]: you’ve gone through but now that it’sbeen a bit from that talk it’s about
[Nick McGowan]: how how you manage your mind setand still loving and all of that throughout
[Nick McGowan]: that whole process and what you lookat now kind of looking back at it
[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah perspective and reflection [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: is a powerful thing when [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: you’re years [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: out from it i’ll give you twostories really that stand out in before she
[Jeff Wickersham]: passed and after she passed and oneis before she passed we had a conversation
[Jeff Wickersham]: i took her to iver see apen for a treatment and it was about
[Jeff Wickersham]: her legacy and help terrified she wasshe would be forgotten and you know that’s
[Jeff Wickersham]: that’s a powerful she was going togo on hospital care at this point and
[Jeff Wickersham]: you hear your mother talk about thatboy that that shocked you
[Nick McGowan]: sure [Jeff Wickersham]: um and i assured her at thatpoint that i would carry on her legacy
[Jeff Wickersham]: her message of hope of positivity andsaid it’ll live on through me to live
[Jeff Wickersham]: on through my [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: children so you talk about a sparki honor her every day by bringing that
[Jeff Wickersham]: attitude to it i help her legacylive on because of that so i didn’t
[Jeff Wickersham]: know in that time [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: and that conversation but [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: definitely looking back i just i feelthat power from
[Nick McGowan]: i [Jeff Wickersham]: that conversation [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: and then the second story is thenight she passed it was you know sunday
[Jeff Wickersham]: the eagles were playing the giants andi got a call for my dad saying
[Jeff Wickersham]: he come to the house or yourmom hasn’t woken up and she passed later
[Jeff Wickersham]: in a sunday afternoon and we [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: got the second unit of the funeralstaff it was two older gentlemen i’m the
[Jeff Wickersham]: oldest of three kids so i wasup there after she passed helping anyway i
[Jeff Wickersham]: could and i saw this concern ontheir faces and it was in the second
[Jeff Wickersham]: floor of our house they said idon’t know if we’re going to be able
[Jeff Wickersham]: to carry her down the steps [Nick McGowan]: oh [Jeff Wickersham]: and i said in a moment isaid i’ll do it so let me get
[Jeff Wickersham]: my younger [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: brother [Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: that night we carried my mom outdown the steps in that dreaded black bag
[Jeff Wickersham]: and [Nick McGowan]: damn [Jeff Wickersham]: you think about opportunities to [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: lead in an instant [Nick McGowan]: h [Jeff Wickersham]: and i got goose bumps from [Nick McGowan]: oh [Jeff Wickersham]: telling you that [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: story [Nick McGowan]: i have him right now [Jeff Wickersham]: just immediately snapping into action saying igot
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: and you know i can pull strengthfrom that moment even though it’s incredibly painful
[Jeff Wickersham]: um [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: but those two those two [Nick McGowan]: oh [Jeff Wickersham]: stories just are a my base andfoundation to make sure every day is a
[Jeff Wickersham]: gift and [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: i use it to it to itsfullest
[Nick McGowan]: and that’s a it’s a wild thingto think about being in that spot and
[Nick McGowan]: it’s inspiring to hear you just withouteven really thinking about it going i got
[Nick McGowan]: this yeah let’s do it you knowyes
[Jeff Wickersham]: oh [Nick McGowan]: it’s i mean you often hear parentsshouldn’t shouldn’t put their kids in the ground
[Nick McGowan]: they shouldn’t have [Jeff Wickersham]: hm [Nick McGowan]: to deal with that but at thesame time the kids need to deal with
[Nick McGowan]: their parents and that’s [Jeff Wickersham]: m [Nick McGowan]: that’s got to be super tough therethings that you can look at now again
[Nick McGowan]: years later you go before that momentthis is how i look at things and
[Nick McGowan]: after that moment it drastically changed butin certain aspects
[Jeff Wickersham]: i mean positivity the mind set andevery single day i wake up and people
[Jeff Wickersham]: like how are you [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: excited at five a in the morningi’m like because i get another
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: day i get [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: another opportunity [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: like we were just the [Nick McGowan]: oh [Jeff Wickersham]: at the beach as a bigger familyand my nieces and nephews sons and my
[Jeff Wickersham]: brother and brother in law were throwingthe football around the ocean and i was
[Jeff Wickersham]: brought to tears and my wife lookedat me and said what’s wrong
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: i said my mom would give anythingto be here and i am just soaking
[Jeff Wickersham]: up this moment because i know howpressuative it is
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: so kind of kind of going throughlife through forty years having that perspective of
[Jeff Wickersham]: just take some time so soak upthe moments and
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: smile and laugh and not take lifeso seriously and and bring energy to other
[Jeff Wickersham]: people that’s just such a gift thatwe can give and too often we we
[Jeff Wickersham]: discount the impact that we can makeon others by acting a certain way leading
[Jeff Wickersham]: a certain way bringing energy in acertain way in that that’s incredibly powerful
[Nick McGowan]: yeah and i know for a lotof people that that really hurt and they
[Nick McGowan]: kind of hurt other people it’s becauseof the hurting that they have and they
[Nick McGowan]: don’t allow themselves to get through thator look for help to get through it
[Nick McGowan]: how you’re telling me about how youtook your mom’s body bag out and the
[Nick McGowan]: positivity that came from that where somepeople would take that and run with it
[Nick McGowan]: in a different direction so with yourcoaching clients when you feel like they’re on
[Nick McGowan]: that cup of they’re about to justhang up the gloves and be like look
[Nick McGowan]: i fucking can any more i don’twant to how do you work in with
[Nick McGowan]: them and i get that that’s caseper case basis but in certain ways there’s
[Nick McGowan]: a formula to it [Jeff Wickersham]: so i love correlating that to someonethey love or
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: finding out a deeper why right imean obviously my two sons are a huge
[Jeff Wickersham]: one in my life but if youcan correlate that an experience or something you’re
[Jeff Wickersham]: going to miss or [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: something that you won’t get to seelater in life all of a sudden it
[Jeff Wickersham]: shocks people to say okay you’re rightlike what am i and about
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: i need to get up because iwant to experience walking down my daughter down
[Jeff Wickersham]: the aisle or dancing with my sonat his wedding and if you’re headed down
[Jeff Wickersham]: this path you’re not going to getthere
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: and that gives them a future stateof reality check whether like holy you’re right
[Jeff Wickersham]: like i need to shift how dowe do it let’s go
[Nick McGowan]: the fear of god in their eyesin a sense
[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: o yeah you’re right let’s do this [Jeff Wickersham]: i mean we run away from pain [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: right and and when we see paini mean through iterations myself i wear a
[Jeff Wickersham]: pink wrist band on my arm andit’s a reminder of my mom
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: and it’s a reminder [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: of my mom not to have mewallow in the fucking corner
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: but to say you know yeah allright mom i got you i’m here
[Nick McGowan]: yep [Jeff Wickersham]: let’s go right if we can usethat if we can transform that pain into
[Jeff Wickersham]: purpose [Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: it is a fuel that is neverending and it just lights you up
[Nick McGowan]: i love that transforming pain into purposeand let’s get into some of the deep
[Nick McGowan]: work and how you’re transforming pain intopurpose so talk about what you’re doing throughout
[Nick McGowan]: the course of let’s this season thatyou’re working on right now that’s part of
[Nick McGowan]: the struggles and be real be honestbut at the same time understand that the
[Nick McGowan]: reason why i ask that question isi want to point out that you’re human
[Nick McGowan]: and you’re just like the [Jeff Wickersham]: m [Nick McGowan]: st of us because we talked aboutthis earlier some people will look and think
[Nick McGowan]: oh well they’ve got everything together wefucking don’t we constantly
[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: work on this ship we just maywork
[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: on it [Jeff Wickersham]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: a little bit more than you doso step up your fucking so how do
[Nick McGowan]: you do it and what do yougo
[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: through right now like what’s the strugglethat you’re kind of working through to better
[Nick McGowan]: yourself with [Jeff Wickersham]: three [Nick McGowan]: oh [Jeff Wickersham]: three things i took on this yearone is the alcohol
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: and and it’s been amazingly eye openingto see how many times i would gravitate
[Jeff Wickersham]: towards it numb up a bad daya tough day and i got nothing against
[Jeff Wickersham]: alcohol but i just knew it wasthe break pedal to the car that i
[Jeff Wickersham]: wanted to drive so fast i wantedthe clarity
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: i wanted to focus i wanted theenergy every day and even just one drink
[Jeff Wickersham]: wouldn’t allow me to do that [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: so in addition i get to leadfrom the front my one son is going
[Jeff Wickersham]: to be fourteen the others twelve theycan see it and say dad chose not
[Jeff Wickersham]: to and now i can here’s thereason why
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: right so show them an example twowas you know porn porn was a huge
[Jeff Wickersham]: issue in my life issue in mymarriage
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: i think it’s it got this deepundercurrent it’s available everywhere and i know a
[Jeff Wickersham]: lot of people suffer from that and [Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: i said it’s packed in my relationshipwith my wife i’m doing away with that
[Jeff Wickersham]: so that was a big one thisyear and then one that’s just constantly on
[Jeff Wickersham]: going and and you a alluded toit is that mental battle
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: like yesterday in the morning did nothave it i don’t know why i made
[Jeff Wickersham]: i asked myself some questions my wifeasked hey what’s going on with you and
[Jeff Wickersham]: i said i don’t know um andshe came in and asked me if i
[Jeff Wickersham]: wanted hug and the old jeff theego stepped in and said no i’m good
[Jeff Wickersham]: she walked into the other room andi took a second and
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: through meditation through getting in mind setwraps
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: i said hold a second she madean attempt it reached me
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: and i let my ego get involvedso i walked out and she looked at
[Jeff Wickersham]: me and she said did you rethink the hug
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: and i said yes and i walkedover and i gave her a hug
[Nick McGowan]: that’s [Jeff Wickersham]: because [Nick McGowan]: awesome [Jeff Wickersham]: especially as men i would say manytimes now i’m good i’m good
[Nick McGowan]: shit [Jeff Wickersham]: you’re not [Nick McGowan]: ah [Jeff Wickersham]: and find somebody that can help youget around other men that are real enough
[Jeff Wickersham]: to talk about i have my shiptogether i struggle in these areas
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: and then you’ll see some growth sothose are you know two for the year
[Jeff Wickersham]: and then just mentally i face itevery day and i coach people in this
[Jeff Wickersham]: we all face it it’s a constantyou’re never going to get to a point
[Jeff Wickersham]: you’re just like i got it i’msure tony robins deals with the same stuff
[Nick McGowan]: he’s got coaches [Jeff Wickersham]: right everybody does [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: right everybody has coaches so it’s crazy [Nick McGowan]: somebody said to me before that theywere told by a coach they’re like well
[Nick McGowan]: michael jordan has coaches do you thinkyou’re better than michael jordan and they were
[Nick McGowan]: like the funk i [Jeff Wickersham]: right [Nick McGowan]: don’t at [Jeff Wickersham]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: all so know but then i thinkthe born thing is a big thing that
[Nick McGowan]: we as men and probably as womenbut look i’m not a woman so don’t
[Nick McGowan]: know we [Jeff Wickersham]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: as men struggle and there are timeswhere i know there friends that i have
[Nick McGowan]: that are very close friends that ican talk to about stuff where i’m like
[Nick McGowan]: man i’m struggling with this are strugglingwith that but i think that’s one of
[Nick McGowan]: those things that a lot of menreally afraid to open up about and especially
[Nick McGowan]: in a relationship now i’ve had somesome issues like that as well within my
[Nick McGowan]: past relationship and i feel some ofthat actually was part of the downfall because
[Nick McGowan]: we didn’t really ommunicate through all ofthat but over all sexual problems within marriages
[Nick McGowan]: or within any sort of relationship typicallycomes back from something that had happened before
[Nick McGowan]: so do you find that that wassomething that was easy for you to break
[Nick McGowan]: because you had help within your familyor friends or did you do that on
[Nick McGowan]: your own and it’s just a constantthing that you’re dealing with
[Jeff Wickersham]: i did have help because i madeit vocal to my wife and saying hey
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: i know this is impacting our relationshipand early on in our it was acceptable
[Jeff Wickersham]: she was like okay i’m not inthe mood go ahead and and
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: i don’t think that is great onboth sides of the equation
[Nick McGowan]: sure [Jeff Wickersham]: so i knew that i need tobe addressed and listen i still have the
[Jeff Wickersham]: buddies that send like a picture andi’m like i deleted i don’t want to
[Jeff Wickersham]: see it like [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: you’re when you’re in that state it’sa constant dopomene hit
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: and you’re just like we talk aboutalchol numbing you’re basically numbing your mind to
[Jeff Wickersham]: anything that happens real in the worldthrough that so uh and and it’s everywhere
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: right i mean it’s everywhere in theworld so it’s a discipline that i need
[Jeff Wickersham]: to dil in every day [Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: and i said you know what i’mgoing to do through the day and there’s
[Jeff Wickersham]: no poor no no social scrolling tobe able to put up that buffer
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: because you know you were just talkingabout in the beginning where all of a
[Jeff Wickersham]: sudden your phone you’re on instagram foreverright it’s
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: where our minds are up against thegreatest super computers and artificial intelligence ever made
[Jeff Wickersham]: the world [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: it is a losing battle [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: we’re facing [Nick McGowan]: we’re being attacked [Jeff Wickersham]: so how do you how do youput up those buffers
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: like you have to do it soyeah it’s a it’s an ongoing process but
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: i know it’s enriched my relationship [Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: i know the lack of alcohol hasdefinitely had a positive impact on my family
[Jeff Wickersham]: and others and i just had aguy
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: reach out today that said hey manyou inspired me i’m giving it up from
[Jeff Wickersham]: forty first year on this earth andi’m excited
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: for for it i’ve been thinking aboutit but you’re doing it i’m in thanks
[Jeff Wickersham]: and that message brought [Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: me to tears not that i wantpeople to that
[Nick McGowan]: sure [Jeff Wickersham]: but if you feel that itch [Nick McGowan]: okay [Jeff Wickersham]: yeah go for it you can doit
[Nick McGowan]: yeah it’s that it’s when you knowat that point like you realize like oh
[Nick McGowan]: that was the person i was theperson that needed to hear that and i
[Nick McGowan]: love that you are [Jeff Wickersham]: yep [Nick McGowan]: hyper aware of that stuff emotionally hyperaware it sounds like where think about it
[Nick McGowan]: when you were younger if somebody waslike oh you’re on to watch this movie
[Nick McGowan]: you’re probably going to you’d be likefuck you i am not going to cry
[Nick McGowan]: totally not but [Jeff Wickersham]: right [Nick McGowan]: now you watch the commercial and you’relike why i was so good i don’t
[Nick McGowan]: know [Jeff Wickersham]: my wife the last of me when [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: two thousand eight when the phillies wonthe world
[Nick McGowan]: oh [Jeff Wickersham]: series [Nick McGowan]: that’s the moment to cry [Jeff Wickersham]: i was i was at that gameand they showed
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: the re play and tears came instantlyand she was like how the hell do
[Jeff Wickersham]: right away like you know you know [Nick McGowan]: dude i believe me i mean youhit on a note with that my mind’s
[Nick McGowan]: eye i see the ball falling offa table from brad ledge and
[Jeff Wickersham]: yep [Nick McGowan]: yeah cry now thanks jeff [Jeff Wickersham]: oh [Nick McGowan]: but along this stuff with like notonly the porn the alcohol or anything you
[Nick McGowan]: touched on it it’s dopamenhits because welook at we want a little
[Jeff Wickersham]: m [Nick McGowan]: happy of things we don’t want tofeel
[Jeff Wickersham]: right [Nick McGowan]: whatever we’re feeling we just want alittle happy with things but i think if
[Nick McGowan]: we take that step back a bornis a problem or alcohol is a problem
[Nick McGowan]: or whatever those things are those arestill the symptoms and pieces of it but
[Nick McGowan]: you take a step back and lookat the fucking doors that you’re about to
[Nick McGowan]: open it’s a different story and i’vehad a handful of conversations like this recently
[Nick McGowan]: where it’s been more and more inmy head you sometimes get to a point
[Nick McGowan]: where you have a handful of differentdoors but each of those doors could have
[Nick McGowan]: forty other doors behind them and oneof the easiest
[Jeff Wickersham]: m [Nick McGowan]: ways to not go through that bullshitis to not go through the sucking door
[Nick McGowan]: but you got to be aware enough [Jeff Wickersham]: it [Nick McGowan]: of that door and would you agreethat being aware comes from the discipline throughout
[Nick McGowan]: the day that you do like yourbook ends
[Jeff Wickersham]: absolutely [Nick McGowan]: okay [Jeff Wickersham]: an awareness is such a key pieceto
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: being able to consciously make a decisionyes or no i would also say piggy
[Jeff Wickersham]: back and off your dope mean rightthat that’s that constant dopameate hit we also
[Jeff Wickersham]: are a society that’s go go gonext
[Nick McGowan]: m [Jeff Wickersham]: next next busy busy busy so anytime we do something we rob ourselves of
[Jeff Wickersham]: that natural dope mean hit and ilove
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: coaching clients on this like you goout for a walk in the morning yes
[Jeff Wickersham]: feel good i just felt a dopemean hit like and i just felt good
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: why are that celebrated then on tothe next instead of a right i got
[Jeff Wickersham]: my walk i got to meditate godo that got to that you’re robbing yourself
[Jeff Wickersham]: of wiring what you do that isgood for you
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Jeff Wickersham]: with that dope amen hit so ifwe can do that a little bit more
[Jeff Wickersham]: celebrating it might feel goofy that doublehanded yes it feels good and we should
[Jeff Wickersham]: celebrate when we do things that trulyhelp us
[Nick McGowan]: yeah and those things right there theover the top almost sometimes celebrating is part
[Nick McGowan]: of the recipe that’s how our bodywill take that and say oh this means
[Nick McGowan]: this and move it along in sadbeing like it’s good morning it’s cool moving
[Nick McGowan]: along let me get some coffee ohship coffee all right what do we do
[Nick McGowan]: it’s a whole differ thing but ilove the the book ends sort of concept
[Nick McGowan]: of that and the discipline within itand man it’s been a pleasure to have
[Nick McGowan]: you on i’m sure we could gothrough a lot of things one thing i
[Nick McGowan]: want to point out as i appreciatesaid water earlier instead of water
[Jeff Wickersham]: oh [Nick McGowan]: so thank you to the delco peopleor anybody from pillit’s listening they’re probably like
[Nick McGowan]: fucking this guy [Jeff Wickersham]: uh [Nick McGowan]: but man it’s been so awesome tohave you
[Jeff Wickersham]: h [Nick McGowan]: for the audience give us that onepiece of advice that you’d give for somebody
[Nick McGowan]: that’s on their path towards self mastery [Jeff Wickersham]: today is a gift [Nick McGowan]: okay [Jeff Wickersham]: you will never get again so playall out use it to its fullest and
[Jeff Wickersham]: that’s what i look to do everysingle day
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Jeff Wickersham]: and if more people live that waythis this life this society of this world
[Jeff Wickersham]: it would be on fire and udbe an amazing amazing place
[Nick McGowan]: yeah i agree man i appreciate thatso hey where can people find you where
[Nick McGowan]: can they connect with you [Jeff Wickersham]: yes so they can go out tomy website w w w dot the morning
[Jeff Wickersham]: fire dot com if [Nick McGowan]: oh [Jeff Wickersham]: they want to grab that blue print of book ending your days i’ve got a [Jeff Wickersham]: book on amazon number one bascella rise fight lover ignite your morning fire i’m out [Jeff Wickersham]: on all major social channels as well as have a podcast morning fire for entrepreneurs [Nick McGowan]: awesome man thank you so much for being on it’s been a pleasure to chat [Nick McGowan]: with you [Jeff Wickersham]: it was awesome thanks for having me