Treating Your Mind Like The Mental Muscle It Is – Ep.049 – Jeff Wickersham

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Episode summary:​ Jeff Wickersham has become a master at mindset. Mindset is what helps guide our life and achieve our desires.

He is very self-disciplined with his phone usage, morning routines, creating little goals, celebrating successes, and overall living life to the fullest.

Jeff shares his mindset secrets and wants to see everyone live their best life and live their dreams. 

Guest Name & Bio: Recognized by FOX, MarketWatch, and bestselling author Jeff Wickersham is a peak-performance mindset coach, sought-after speaker, and creator of The Morning Fire™.

The secret of his success is his own harrowing and humbling experience with rock bottom just a few years ago.

He was battling substance abuse, his marriage was on the brink of divorce, and his business was crumbling but he was committed to getting back up and working. In just 18 months, he elevated every single area of his life to a level of success greater than he’d ever known in the past.

It turns out, the ‘quick fixes that are so glaringly missing from the wellness industry are consistency and accountability.

Jeff Wickersham

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[Nick McGowan]: Hey Jeff welcome to the show man. How you doing?

[Jeff Wickersham]: nick i am doing fantastic thanks for

having me

[Nick McGowan]: absolutely well look i’m excited that you’re on lookin through your linked in look though

[Nick McGowan]: your website and just kind of going through and getting prepped for the show one

[Nick McGowan]: thing that really skipped my mind was that you literally live in basically my old

[Nick McGowan]: stomping grounds so right off the bat we start shooting the ship about the phillies

[Nick McGowan]: how they

[Jeff Wickersham]: i

[Nick McGowan]: just lost the marlin no i didn’t know this thing will probably come out in

[Nick McGowan]: the fall but they shouldn’t have lost

that game

[Jeff Wickersham]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: i digress

[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: man i appreciate you being on don’t you kick things off tell us what you

[Nick McGowan]: do for living and one thing that most people don’t know about you that’s maybe

[Nick McGowan]: a little odd or bizarre

[Jeff Wickersham]: absolutely so i am an accountability

[Nick McGowan]: right

[Jeff Wickersham]: mind set in peak performance coach

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Jeff Wickersham]: one thing that is odd

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Jeff Wickersham]: or people aren’t completely aware about me

is in twenty twenty one i actually acted

[Jeff Wickersham]: in a movie as a security guard

[Nick McGowan]: nice

[Jeff Wickersham]: that is coming out in the near

future so that was kind of a

[Nick McGowan]: ah

[Jeff Wickersham]: neat neat event

[Nick McGowan]: that’s pretty cool how did that come


[Jeff Wickersham]: i knew the

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Jeff Wickersham]: director and he said you know i’d

love to have you in the movie it

[Jeff Wickersham]: was actually a speaking part two so

it’s just so interesting to

[Nick McGowan]: wow

[Jeff Wickersham]: go behind the scenes and get shot

from different angles of course i was nervous

[Nick McGowan]: yah

[Jeff Wickersham]: it’s never been in that element

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: but it was it was a pretty

cool experience

[Nick McGowan]: i bet man that’s cool right off

the bat i think it’s all about it’s

[Nick McGowan]: all about the connections if you didn’t

know the director and you weren’t friendly with

[Nick McGowan]: them you didn’t know who you were

you wouldn’t be like uh yeah my buddy

[Nick McGowan]: jeff he could probably do this but

then for you to be kind of nervous

[Nick McGowan]: through it makes total sense like anybody

that would say now i’d be good i’d

[Nick McGowan]: get in

[Jeff Wickersham]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: i’d crush it bullshit totally different when

you’re in that spot so how did you

[Nick McGowan]: manage your mind

[Jeff Wickersham]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: set not only knowing like hey i

got the part but

[Jeff Wickersham]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: fun now we need to do it

[Jeff Wickersham]: practice practice practice right

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: my lines and that’s and then then

allowing myself to be humble enough and have

[Jeff Wickersham]: humility to be coached

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: right in the process you know the

director would say i do this a little

[Jeff Wickersham]: bit differently and i didn’t know i

think that’s such a misconception that we have

[Jeff Wickersham]: is ere gonna start something were gonna

be amazing at it now news flash you’re

[Jeff Wickersham]: going to suck when you start

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: and that’s okay give yourself grace

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: that’s where everybody starts at we always

see these finished products and we think like

[Jeff Wickersham]: they’re in ly given these gifts and


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: are they talented most likely but they’ve

practiced so many

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Jeff Wickersham]: times so that’s just the biggest lesson

is being humble enough to take coaching

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: when you’re doing so thing new and

then understand you’re going to suck and just

[Jeff Wickersham]: do it over and over again then

you’ll get better at it

[Nick McGowan]: that’s a good point i want to

kind of write on that a little bit

[Nick McGowan]: because i think that’s a thing that

a lot of us we know it you

[Nick McGowan]: know we know that yeah you’re probably

going to suck the suck of this thing

[Nick McGowan]: pretty bad when you first start but

it still stops people and i’ve found that

[Nick McGowan]: just continuously moving along and doing the

next thing works for me because there’re certain

[Nick McGowan]: times where i look and go all

righ we i’m going to do this thing

[Nick McGowan]: and i’m like holy ship this is

fucking mount ever that i have to climb

[Nick McGowan]: and looking at that you’re like how

am i going to do all of that

[Nick McGowan]: but if you go off i just

stand the hell up from the sofa that’s

[Nick McGowan]: at least step number one if i

put my right foot in front of the

[Nick McGowan]: other then that’s the next couple of

steps so working through stuff like that and

[Nick McGowan]: i know you do this with your

clients what sort of stuff

[Jeff Wickersham]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: do you break down with people

[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: just right off the bat when you

kind of get into that

[Jeff Wickersham]: i love the mountain story right and

looking up to that peak

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: and so many times the mind will

say holy ship

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Jeff Wickersham]: how the heck are you going to

get there

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: and that’s what stops so many people

is because they can’t see a path where

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: if you break it down and i

love to break it down with with clients

[Jeff Wickersham]: i do it myself right i’m a

practitioner i don’t teach out a fucking book

[Jeff Wickersham]: i do myself first and then i

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: am able to teach experience authenticity but

i love to say just focus on the

[Jeff Wickersham]: easiest possible step you can

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: take and it’s almost laughable like i’m

going to take a step like that but

[Jeff Wickersham]: take it and then celebrate it and

then take the next one because then you

[Jeff Wickersham]: start to to your point build momentum

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: start to feel that energy rise your

confidence builds a little bit as you take

[Jeff Wickersham]: a step another one and then three

and then all of a sudden you’re moving

[Jeff Wickersham]: towards that peak where if you sit

there and say well how i’m going to

[Jeff Wickersham]: get there ninety nine percent

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: of a time the way you start

is not how you’re going to get there

[Nick McGowan]: we had all

[Jeff Wickersham]: right it’s called optionality right and

[Nick McGowan]: yes

[Jeff Wickersham]: navy seals have that mindset

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: like just find an option find another

path if ten doors are shut just go

[Jeff Wickersham]: the eleventh and continue down that route

but break it down to the easiest laughable

[Jeff Wickersham]: possible first step take it celebrate and

then do another and then you’ll you’ll start

[Jeff Wickersham]: that process of momentum

[Nick McGowan]: i did that man i like to

play devils to have a kid on the

[Nick McGowan]: show and i often times we’ll think

about that one dude that’s listening going yeah

[Nick McGowan]: fuck you guys i’ve tried this ship

[Jeff Wickersham]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: before i’ve done that i’ve done that

they’re just making excuses i’d hoped at some

[Nick McGowan]: and i get an email from whoever

that random person is that’s like you you’ve

[Nick McGowan]: fucking

[Jeff Wickersham]: that’s great

[Nick McGowan]: done this to me a couple of

times but from coaches perspective i want to

[Nick McGowan]: give a little bit of a peak

behind the curtain because for that person and

[Nick McGowan]: other people that think you okay i’ve

heard that before i get it and they

[Nick McGowan]: continuously make excuses that you and i

both know in client sessions you can smell

[Nick McGowan]: that ship from a mile away and

start to come up and

[Jeff Wickersham]: right

[Nick McGowan]: you’re like so we have to get

through this first before we can actually handle

[Nick McGowan]: the problem so how would you suggest

and i guess this is kind of a

[Nick McGowan]: two part piece of it how do

you work with

[Jeff Wickersham]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: your clients to be able to go

i hear on the bullshit but i want

[Nick McGowan]: you to look at it and smell

it so that we don’t have to look

[Nick McGowan]: at it again and then go back

and work on that stuff

[Jeff Wickersham]: what

[Nick McGowan]: and then how you work on it

for yourself because of the audience themselves thinking

[Nick McGowan]: fuck i’ve heard this before i’ve done

that before we want to be able to

[Nick McGowan]: help them break that down because i

get that once you stand up and you

[Nick McGowan]: start to move it’s easier but that

initial movement what typically takes people the longest

[Nick McGowan]: to do so from that perspective of

you’re coaching one of your clients nd you’re

[Nick McGowan]: like her you on your bullshit and

i want to love you through it but

[Nick McGowan]: how you as a person will be

able to do that on your own

[Jeff Wickersham]: one is having an awareness of how

much energy it takes to start

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: right and it’s just like the space

shuttle lifting off right it uses so much

[Jeff Wickersham]: energy that that first couple seconds to

get up and off the platform it’s the

[Jeff Wickersham]: same thing in life

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: right and if you would just think

to yourself okay i just need to muster

[Jeff Wickersham]: energy for like three or four seconds

to get the heck up and enter is

[Jeff Wickersham]: such a powerful thing and so many

people are missing that so many people in

[Jeff Wickersham]: life are flat lined

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: where they’re just they’re not great they’re

good they’re not crappy they’re just average

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: and they don’t amp up their energy

level so that is one of the fundamental

[Jeff Wickersham]: things i bring to the equation when

i work with my clients

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: you know passion energy speaking to it

and you feel that we feel it as

[Jeff Wickersham]: in our exchange right here

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: they inherently can’t sit there and still

say the same thing

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: because they’re there they feel that exchange

and they’re like all right you know what

[Jeff Wickersham]: i don’t know what you’re on

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: but you’re right i’m getting up

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: and it’s just that energy exchange can

be so incredibly powerful

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: that the non verbal language the the

excitement the enthusiasm rubs off and they’re like

[Jeff Wickersham]: you know i’m getting off the couch

now like

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: i’m doing it let’s go so that

the energy is such a critical component to

[Jeff Wickersham]: ting off that couch getting movement first

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: as well as having

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: somebody else assist you in that process

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: it’s incredibly powerful

[Nick McGowan]: yeah i totally agree with that that

energy is huge it takes a lot sometimes

[Nick McGowan]: for people to manufacture that themselves because

they’re stuck in their own heads where if

[Nick McGowan]: you have an itch on your leg

you’re not really think about yo’re gonna go

[Nick McGowan]: there’s a nitch and you scratch it

and just subconsciously go about that so it’s

[Nick McGowan]: interesting when we we as people just

allow ourselves to stagnate and just sit there

[Nick McGowan]: and not do anything do you find

that that really stems from fear or do

[Nick McGowan]: you find that it stems from something


[Jeff Wickersham]: fear is a one of the components

i would say the other one is we’re

[Jeff Wickersham]: just so kind of safe and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: we’re always just playing at middle of

the road i like to say the large

[Jeff Wickersham]: portion of society is a frog in

a boiling pot of water and they just

[Jeff Wickersham]: don’t

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: know it right now they’re

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: not aware of it right and there’s

so many things that society tells us we’ve

[Jeff Wickersham]: been taught that take us down that

road towards a quiet desperation anxiety stress

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: overwhelm all of these things that we’ve

been taught we should chase after we’ve been

[Jeff Wickersham]: taught to consume or do a truly

aren’t letting us step into the best version

[Jeff Wickersham]: of ourselves personally or

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: professionally and it’s been opening for me

i always say like i’ve unplugged from the

[Jeff Wickersham]: matrix

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: and now i’m like i can’t go

back and i don’t ever want to go

[Jeff Wickersham]: back in but there are things that

just consistently day after day were fed were

[Jeff Wickersham]: were shown

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: and people are plugged in there and

can’t get out of their own way

[Nick McGowan]: now i know you’ve had some major

changes that have happened and a lot of

[Nick McGowan]: growth that has happened say over the


[Jeff Wickersham]: a

[Nick McGowan]: couple of years is that one of

those things that you’ve unplugged yourself from social

[Nick McGowan]: media and from the new s and

things of that sort

[Jeff Wickersham]: absolutely like that’s one of the founding

methodologies i have personally and then when i

[Jeff Wickersham]: work with my client is when you

wake up in the morning control that first

[Jeff Wickersham]: thirty minutes

[Nick McGowan]: don’t touch your phone

[Jeff Wickersham]: no

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: news no and other than turn off

the alarm if you’re

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: using an alarm it’s like a tractor

beam from the death star like

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: trying to pull you in but no

distractions stack these quick winds water exercise meditation

[Jeff Wickersham]: journaling all these things that make you

feel good

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: then you’re so much more equipped to

being able to take on what the world

[Jeff Wickersham]: throws at you and we know it

throws a heck of a lot at you

[Jeff Wickersham]: so stack in those winds so vital

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: and away from the news the negativity

those things i like to just put up

[Jeff Wickersham]: that force field that i need a

working understanding of what’s going on in the

[Jeff Wickersham]: world but i’m not going to watch

it for two hours at night

[Nick McGowan]: yeah and they go why can’t i

sleep because you’re king watched fox news for

[Nick McGowan]: three hours that’s why

[Jeff Wickersham]: all right

[Nick McGowan]: that’s

[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: that’s a whole different story i know

you are tony robins guy i am as

[Nick McGowan]: well and i think of priming i

think that was one of the things that

[Nick McGowan]: stood out to me years ago is

one how he gets up and runs out

[Nick McGowan]: in the middle of the cold ocean

at dum o clock in the morning now

[Nick McGowan]: i’m in florida maybe fifteen mile from

the ocean be one hell of a run

[Nick McGowan]: each morning

[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: but

[Jeff Wickersham]: right

[Nick McGowan]: you think it’s the same way you

know you got to prime yourself you got

[Nick McGowan]: to get your ship together and it’s

funny i was actually talking to a client

[Nick McGowan]: the other day about putting their phone

down in the morning i have my phone

[Nick McGowan]: next to me too i have an

alarm that set and there are times where

[Nick McGowan]: i find myself just on instagram i’m

like how did i even get here i

[Nick McGowan]: literally just turned the thing

[Jeff Wickersham]: m

[Nick McGowan]: off and i’ve

[Jeff Wickersham]: m

[Nick McGowan]: started to just turn it off

[Jeff Wickersham]: no

[Nick McGowan]: just from where it is and leave

it but i find it interesting to be

[Nick McGowan]: able to discipline yourself with that sort

of stuff and not being pulled back in

[Nick McGowan]: to kind of land this plane in

the sense the conversation having the other day

[Nick McGowan]: reminded the client look once you do

that you remind yourself of all the things

[Nick McGowan]: that you think you are and you

have no idea what’s unknown at that point

[Nick McGowan]: but when you get up you to

work through your routine of getting your mind

[Nick McGowan]: right getting your body right even just

stretching and doing some squats or something like

[Nick McGowan]: that and you’re not inundated with hat

i’ve got these three meetings today i got

[Nick McGowan]: to get this thing out i got

to do this with the kids all that

[Nick McGowan]: blah blah blah you’re able to just

kind of work through that you know it’s

[Nick McGowan]: taken me years to get to the

point where i have a morning and an

[Nick McGowan]: evening routine and i’m not always hundred

percent on it but are you in the

[Nick McGowan]: same boat you do the same thing

where you have a morning and evening routine

[Nick McGowan]: and coach your clients in the same

way what

[Jeff Wickersham]: that’s the foundation where i start because

[Nick McGowan]: awesome

[Jeff Wickersham]: you can’t control the life that we

have right

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: you just can’t control it so but

you can control those book i like to

[Jeff Wickersham]: call them the book ends right

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: last thirty minutes of the day first

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: thirty it’s in the morning digital sunset

preparing for a good night sleep i mean

[Jeff Wickersham]: sleep is where our bodies our minds


[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Jeff Wickersham]: themselves so many times people are getting

crappy night sleep right

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: on f get less than seven hours

sleep you’re like doubling your risk of cancer

[Jeff Wickersham]: i mean that’s a scary thing my

mom passed away from breast cancer seven and

[Jeff Wickersham]: a half years ago i’m making

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: sure i’m getting more than seven now

right and those things that

[Nick McGowan]: buck

[Jeff Wickersham]: set you up for success celebrate your

successes and then get a great night sleep

[Jeff Wickersham]: and then wake up in the morning

to your point it is the greatest gift

[Jeff Wickersham]: you can give yourself but you can

also give the loved ones around you right

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: two sons wife when i get up

and take care of myself stack all these

[Jeff Wickersham]: winds i’m in control i’m excited i’m

in a sense of purpose and focus and

[Jeff Wickersham]: power

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: ow do you think i act to

them when they’re up i’m smiling i’m like

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: that’s such a different way than how

so many people they lose control of their

[Jeff Wickersham]: day before their feet even hit the


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: of the floor out of bed

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: because they’re checking their phone their checking

emails they’re getting this negativity

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Jeff Wickersham]: maybe from social channels be the news

they’re stepping on the floor and they’re already

[Jeff Wickersham]: down the path of despair anxiousness stress

overwhelmed and they wonder why their day doesn’t

[Jeff Wickersham]: turn

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: out well well you didn’t you didn’t


[Nick McGowan]: maddening

[Jeff Wickersham]: yourself the greatest gift you can give


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: is taking time

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Jeff Wickersham]: in the morning and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: everybody says well you need to help

other people bullshit need to take care of

[Jeff Wickersham]: yourself first then you show up so

much better for all those around you

[Nick McGowan]: oh my god ah somebody i forget

if it was my show or if i

[Nick McGowan]: was on somebody else’s show but somebody

said it’s like when you’re on an airplane

[Nick McGowan]: they tell you you got to put

your mask on before somebody else’s and remember

[Nick McGowan]: thinking first time i heard that i

was don’t know a teen agent flying somewhere

[Nick McGowan]: and i was like well it’s fucked

up i would imagine going down and my

[Nick McGowan]: mom being like wait a minute i

got to put my ship on but it

[Jeff Wickersham]: right

[Nick McGowan]: makes total sense where you got to

be okay so you can take care of

[Nick McGowan]: the people around you and and it’s

once people actually go through and start to

[Nick McGowan]: do some of that they realize that

oh i’m not a chitty person but i

[Nick McGowan]: have been in the mornings because you

just get so aggravated and upset or whatever

[Nick McGowan]: or you get just lost in oh

i have to do this thing and you’re

[Nick McGowan]: not able to actually look at the

stuff that’s around you now i’m sure this

[Nick McGowan]: wasn’t something you’ve done for years and

years and years and years and years because

[Nick McGowan]: i know you’ve had a little bit

of a story so let’s take a little

[Nick McGowan]: bit of a back step why don’t

you tell us what that story looks like

[Nick McGowan]: how you became who you are now

[Jeff Wickersham]: i always love that this question because

people again see a finished product and

[Nick McGowan]: hmm

[Jeff Wickersham]: i was a shy introverted kid when

i was grown up i mean my late

[Jeff Wickersham]: mother used

[Nick McGowan]: a

[Jeff Wickersham]: to tell me a story when i

was six wanted to go play to buddy’s

[Jeff Wickersham]: house

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Jeff Wickersham]: she had to come with me because

i was so shy i wouldn’t go over

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: right and then it transferred to high

school and i broke out of a little

[Jeff Wickersham]: bit due to sports but senior class

on the male side i was voted

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Jeff Wickersham]: biggest complainer

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Jeff Wickersham]: so like you think about where i’m

at now totally

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: different i had that life event as

i shared i lost my mom a breast

[Jeff Wickersham]: cancer seven and a half years ago

and when you watch the woman that brought

[Jeff Wickersham]: you into this world leave this world

at fundamentally

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: changes you at your core right and

i had some other iterations i remember when

[Jeff Wickersham]: i was a gym owner i left

corporate american and one more and i woke

[Jeff Wickersham]: up after doing kind of the things

i did my twenties and thirties and hanging

[Jeff Wickersham]: out late with the buddies drinking and

i was coaching in eight am fitness class

[Jeff Wickersham]: and my wife’s like how are you

going to coach that class when you think

[Jeff Wickersham]: of alchol

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: i was like that’s a pretty pretty

good truth bob but

[Nick McGowan]: good

[Jeff Wickersham]: but

[Nick McGowan]: question

[Jeff Wickersham]: love it and then

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: good question and then i started to

think about okay what am i doing on

[Jeff Wickersham]: a daily basis and now it’s just

a constant game of

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: how do i get better every day

some day i’m going to have dips i’m

[Jeff Wickersham]: goin to have valleys and that’s all

right give myself grace but continue to do

[Jeff Wickersham]: things that set me up success and

are good for my mind and body that’s

[Jeff Wickersham]: why this year

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: twenty twenty two i decided no alcohol

at all and that’s the first break i’m

[Jeff Wickersham]: going to take for a year since

i was seventeen eighteen years

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: old

[Nick McGowan]: wow i love when people do those

things because they want to like there are

[Nick McGowan]: some people i talk to they’re

[Jeff Wickersham]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: like no alcohol no drugs know this

and it’s like well why because no well

[Nick McGowan]: it doesn’t make any sense give me

an actual reason why you’re doing it you

[Nick McGowan]: know almost like when we were when

we were little and i say that because

[Nick McGowan]: we both kind of grew up in

the same area where there are a lot

[Nick McGowan]: of people that were straight edge because

they thought it was the cool thing to

[Nick McGowan]: do and there were people that did

lots of drugs because they thought it was

[Nick McGowan]: the cool thing to do so all

in all people thought it was the cool

[Nick McGowan]: thing to do on either side and

i think people don’t realize

[Jeff Wickersham]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: why they’re doing it so for you

i can understand that you have certain reasons

[Nick McGowan]: and if you want to get into

those you totally can but i think of

[Nick McGowan]: this is just another piece of who

you are and who you’ve become and who

[Nick McGowan]: you’re working on and so let’s talk

about let’s talk about that tough time that

[Nick McGowan]: you went through with your mom i

like to ask what were some of the

[Nick McGowan]: key moments or episodes that happened throughout

life that were pivotal moments for you and

[Nick McGowan]: i can tell right off the bat

that that would be i i love my

[Nick McGowan]: mom the death we had a terrible

growing up relationship

[Jeff Wickersham]: m

[Nick McGowan]: but i wouldn’t want to see your

go so i couldn’t imagine the pain that

[Nick McGowan]: you’ve gone through but now that it’s

been a bit from that talk it’s about

[Nick McGowan]: how how you manage your mind set

and still loving and all of that throughout

[Nick McGowan]: that whole process and what you look

at now kind of looking back at it

[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah perspective and reflection

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: is a powerful thing when

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: you’re years

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: out from it i’ll give you two

stories really that stand out in before she

[Jeff Wickersham]: passed and after she passed and one

is before she passed we had a conversation

[Jeff Wickersham]: i took her to iver see a

pen for a treatment and it was about

[Jeff Wickersham]: her legacy and help terrified she was

she would be forgotten and you know that’s

[Jeff Wickersham]: that’s a powerful she was going to

go on hospital care at this point and

[Jeff Wickersham]: you hear your mother talk about that

boy that that shocked you

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Jeff Wickersham]: um and i assured her at that

point that i would carry on her legacy

[Jeff Wickersham]: her message of hope of positivity and

said it’ll live on through me to live

[Jeff Wickersham]: on through my

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: children so you talk about a spark

i honor her every day by bringing that

[Jeff Wickersham]: attitude to it i help her legacy

live on because of that so i didn’t

[Jeff Wickersham]: know in that time

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: and that conversation but

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: definitely looking back i just i feel

that power from

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Jeff Wickersham]: that conversation

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: and then the second story is the

night she passed it was you know sunday

[Jeff Wickersham]: the eagles were playing the giants and

i got a call for my dad saying

[Jeff Wickersham]: he come to the house or your

mom hasn’t woken up and she passed later

[Jeff Wickersham]: in a sunday afternoon and we

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: got the second unit of the funeral

staff it was two older gentlemen i’m the

[Jeff Wickersham]: oldest of three kids so i was

up there after she passed helping anyway i

[Jeff Wickersham]: could and i saw this concern on

their faces and it was in the second

[Jeff Wickersham]: floor of our house they said i

don’t know if we’re going to be able

[Jeff Wickersham]: to carry her down the steps

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Jeff Wickersham]: and i said in a moment i

said i’ll do it so let me get

[Jeff Wickersham]: my younger

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: brother

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: that night we carried my mom out

down the steps in that dreaded black bag

[Jeff Wickersham]: and

[Nick McGowan]: damn

[Jeff Wickersham]: you think about opportunities to

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: lead in an instant

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Jeff Wickersham]: and i got goose bumps from

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Jeff Wickersham]: telling you that

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: story

[Nick McGowan]: i have him right now

[Jeff Wickersham]: just immediately snapping into action saying i


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: and you know i can pull strength

from that moment even though it’s incredibly painful

[Jeff Wickersham]: um

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: but those two those two

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Jeff Wickersham]: stories just are a my base and

foundation to make sure every day is a

[Jeff Wickersham]: gift and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: i use it to it to its


[Nick McGowan]: and that’s a it’s a wild thing

to think about being in that spot and

[Nick McGowan]: it’s inspiring to hear you just without

even really thinking about it going i got

[Nick McGowan]: this yeah let’s do it you know


[Jeff Wickersham]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: it’s i mean you often hear parents

shouldn’t shouldn’t put their kids in the ground

[Nick McGowan]: they shouldn’t have

[Jeff Wickersham]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: to deal with that but at the

same time the kids need to deal with

[Nick McGowan]: their parents and that’s

[Jeff Wickersham]: m

[Nick McGowan]: that’s got to be super tough there

things that you can look at now again

[Nick McGowan]: years later you go before that moment

this is how i look at things and

[Nick McGowan]: after that moment it drastically changed but

in certain aspects

[Jeff Wickersham]: i mean positivity the mind set and

every single day i wake up and people

[Jeff Wickersham]: like how are you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: excited at five a in the morning

i’m like because i get another

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: day i get

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: another opportunity

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: like we were just the

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Jeff Wickersham]: at the beach as a bigger family

and my nieces and nephews sons and my

[Jeff Wickersham]: brother and brother in law were throwing

the football around the ocean and i was

[Jeff Wickersham]: brought to tears and my wife looked

at me and said what’s wrong

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: i said my mom would give anything

to be here and i am just soaking

[Jeff Wickersham]: up this moment because i know how

pressuative it is

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: so kind of kind of going through

life through forty years having that perspective of

[Jeff Wickersham]: just take some time so soak up

the moments and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: smile and laugh and not take life

so seriously and and bring energy to other

[Jeff Wickersham]: people that’s just such a gift that

we can give and too often we we

[Jeff Wickersham]: discount the impact that we can make

on others by acting a certain way leading

[Jeff Wickersham]: a certain way bringing energy in a

certain way in that that’s incredibly powerful

[Nick McGowan]: yeah and i know for a lot

of people that that really hurt and they

[Nick McGowan]: kind of hurt other people it’s because

of the hurting that they have and they

[Nick McGowan]: don’t allow themselves to get through that

or look for help to get through it

[Nick McGowan]: how you’re telling me about how you

took your mom’s body bag out and the

[Nick McGowan]: positivity that came from that where some

people would take that and run with it

[Nick McGowan]: in a different direction so with your

coaching clients when you feel like they’re on

[Nick McGowan]: that cup of they’re about to just

hang up the gloves and be like look

[Nick McGowan]: i fucking can any more i don’t

want to how do you work in with

[Nick McGowan]: them and i get that that’s case

per case basis but in certain ways there’s

[Nick McGowan]: a formula to it

[Jeff Wickersham]: so i love correlating that to someone

they love or

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: finding out a deeper why right i

mean obviously my two sons are a huge

[Jeff Wickersham]: one in my life but if you

can correlate that an experience or something you’re

[Jeff Wickersham]: going to miss or

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: something that you won’t get to see

later in life all of a sudden it

[Jeff Wickersham]: shocks people to say okay you’re right

like what am i and about

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: i need to get up because i

want to experience walking down my daughter down

[Jeff Wickersham]: the aisle or dancing with my son

at his wedding and if you’re headed down

[Jeff Wickersham]: this path you’re not going to get


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: and that gives them a future state

of reality check whether like holy you’re right

[Jeff Wickersham]: like i need to shift how do

we do it let’s go

[Nick McGowan]: the fear of god in their eyes

in a sense

[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: o yeah you’re right let’s do this

[Jeff Wickersham]: i mean we run away from pain

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: right and and when we see pain

i mean through iterations myself i wear a

[Jeff Wickersham]: pink wrist band on my arm and

it’s a reminder of my mom

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: and it’s a reminder

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: of my mom not to have me

wallow in the fucking corner

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: but to say you know yeah all

right mom i got you i’m here

[Nick McGowan]: yep

[Jeff Wickersham]: let’s go right if we can use

that if we can transform that pain into

[Jeff Wickersham]: purpose

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: it is a fuel that is never

ending and it just lights you up

[Nick McGowan]: i love that transforming pain into purpose

and let’s get into some of the deep

[Nick McGowan]: work and how you’re transforming pain into

purpose so talk about what you’re doing throughout

[Nick McGowan]: the course of let’s this season that

you’re working on right now that’s part of

[Nick McGowan]: the struggles and be real be honest

but at the same time understand that the

[Nick McGowan]: reason why i ask that question is

i want to point out that you’re human

[Nick McGowan]: and you’re just like the

[Jeff Wickersham]: m

[Nick McGowan]: st of us because we talked about

this earlier some people will look and think

[Nick McGowan]: oh well they’ve got everything together we

fucking don’t we constantly

[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: work on this ship we just may


[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: on it

[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: a little bit more than you do

so step up your fucking so how do

[Nick McGowan]: you do it and what do you


[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: through right now like what’s the struggle

that you’re kind of working through to better

[Nick McGowan]: yourself with

[Jeff Wickersham]: three

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Jeff Wickersham]: three things i took on this year

one is the alcohol

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: and and it’s been amazingly eye opening

to see how many times i would gravitate

[Jeff Wickersham]: towards it numb up a bad day

a tough day and i got nothing against

[Jeff Wickersham]: alcohol but i just knew it was

the break pedal to the car that i

[Jeff Wickersham]: wanted to drive so fast i wanted

the clarity

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: i wanted to focus i wanted the

energy every day and even just one drink

[Jeff Wickersham]: wouldn’t allow me to do that

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: so in addition i get to lead

from the front my one son is going

[Jeff Wickersham]: to be fourteen the others twelve they

can see it and say dad chose not

[Jeff Wickersham]: to and now i can here’s the

reason why

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: right so show them an example two

was you know porn porn was a huge

[Jeff Wickersham]: issue in my life issue in my


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: i think it’s it got this deep

undercurrent it’s available everywhere and i know a

[Jeff Wickersham]: lot of people suffer from that and

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: i said it’s packed in my relationship

with my wife i’m doing away with that

[Jeff Wickersham]: so that was a big one this

year and then one that’s just constantly on

[Jeff Wickersham]: going and and you a alluded to

it is that mental battle

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: like yesterday in the morning did not

have it i don’t know why i made

[Jeff Wickersham]: i asked myself some questions my wife

asked hey what’s going on with you and

[Jeff Wickersham]: i said i don’t know um and

she came in and asked me if i

[Jeff Wickersham]: wanted hug and the old jeff the

ego stepped in and said no i’m good

[Jeff Wickersham]: she walked into the other room and

i took a second and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: through meditation through getting in mind set


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: i said hold a second she made

an attempt it reached me

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: and i let my ego get involved

so i walked out and she looked at

[Jeff Wickersham]: me and she said did you re

think the hug

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: and i said yes and i walked

over and i gave her a hug

[Nick McGowan]: that’s

[Jeff Wickersham]: because

[Nick McGowan]: awesome

[Jeff Wickersham]: especially as men i would say many

times now i’m good i’m good

[Nick McGowan]: shit

[Jeff Wickersham]: you’re not

[Nick McGowan]: ah

[Jeff Wickersham]: and find somebody that can help you

get around other men that are real enough

[Jeff Wickersham]: to talk about i have my ship

together i struggle in these areas

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: and then you’ll see some growth so

those are you know two for the year

[Jeff Wickersham]: and then just mentally i face it

every day and i coach people in this

[Jeff Wickersham]: we all face it it’s a constant

you’re never going to get to a point

[Jeff Wickersham]: you’re just like i got it i’m

sure tony robins deals with the same stuff

[Nick McGowan]: he’s got coaches

[Jeff Wickersham]: right everybody does

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: right everybody has coaches so it’s crazy

[Nick McGowan]: somebody said to me before that they

were told by a coach they’re like well

[Nick McGowan]: michael jordan has coaches do you think

you’re better than michael jordan and they were

[Nick McGowan]: like the funk i

[Jeff Wickersham]: right

[Nick McGowan]: don’t at

[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: all so know but then i think

the born thing is a big thing that

[Nick McGowan]: we as men and probably as women

but look i’m not a woman so don’t

[Nick McGowan]: know we

[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: as men struggle and there are times

where i know there friends that i have

[Nick McGowan]: that are very close friends that i

can talk to about stuff where i’m like

[Nick McGowan]: man i’m struggling with this are struggling

with that but i think that’s one of

[Nick McGowan]: those things that a lot of men

really afraid to open up about and especially

[Nick McGowan]: in a relationship now i’ve had some

some issues like that as well within my

[Nick McGowan]: past relationship and i feel some of

that actually was part of the downfall because

[Nick McGowan]: we didn’t really ommunicate through all of

that but over all sexual problems within marriages

[Nick McGowan]: or within any sort of relationship typically

comes back from something that had happened before

[Nick McGowan]: so do you find that that was

something that was easy for you to break

[Nick McGowan]: because you had help within your family

or friends or did you do that on

[Nick McGowan]: your own and it’s just a constant

thing that you’re dealing with

[Jeff Wickersham]: i did have help because i made

it vocal to my wife and saying hey

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: i know this is impacting our relationship

and early on in our it was acceptable

[Jeff Wickersham]: she was like okay i’m not in

the mood go ahead and and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: i don’t think that is great on

both sides of the equation

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Jeff Wickersham]: so i knew that i need to

be addressed and listen i still have the

[Jeff Wickersham]: buddies that send like a picture and

i’m like i deleted i don’t want to

[Jeff Wickersham]: see it like

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: you’re when you’re in that state it’s

a constant dopomene hit

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: and you’re just like we talk about

alchol numbing you’re basically numbing your mind to

[Jeff Wickersham]: anything that happens real in the world

through that so uh and and it’s everywhere

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: right i mean it’s everywhere in the

world so it’s a discipline that i need

[Jeff Wickersham]: to dil in every day

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: and i said you know what i’m

going to do through the day and there’s

[Jeff Wickersham]: no poor no no social scrolling to

be able to put up that buffer

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: because you know you were just talking

about in the beginning where all of a

[Jeff Wickersham]: sudden your phone you’re on instagram forever

right it’s

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: where our minds are up against the

greatest super computers and artificial intelligence ever made

[Jeff Wickersham]: the world

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: it is a losing battle

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: we’re facing

[Nick McGowan]: we’re being attacked

[Jeff Wickersham]: so how do you how do you

put up those buffers

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: like you have to do it so

yeah it’s a it’s an ongoing process but

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: i know it’s enriched my relationship

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: i know the lack of alcohol has

definitely had a positive impact on my family

[Jeff Wickersham]: and others and i just had a


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: reach out today that said hey man

you inspired me i’m giving it up from

[Jeff Wickersham]: forty first year on this earth and

i’m excited

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: for for it i’ve been thinking about

it but you’re doing it i’m in thanks

[Jeff Wickersham]: and that message brought

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: me to tears not that i want

people to that

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Jeff Wickersham]: but if you feel that itch

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Jeff Wickersham]: yeah go for it you can do


[Nick McGowan]: yeah it’s that it’s when you know

at that point like you realize like oh

[Nick McGowan]: that was the person i was the

person that needed to hear that and i

[Nick McGowan]: love that you are

[Jeff Wickersham]: yep

[Nick McGowan]: hyper aware of that stuff emotionally hyper

aware it sounds like where think about it

[Nick McGowan]: when you were younger if somebody was

like oh you’re on to watch this movie

[Nick McGowan]: you’re probably going to you’d be like

fuck you i am not going to cry

[Nick McGowan]: totally not but

[Jeff Wickersham]: right

[Nick McGowan]: now you watch the commercial and you’re

like why i was so good i don’t

[Nick McGowan]: know

[Jeff Wickersham]: my wife the last of me when

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: two thousand eight when the phillies won

the world

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Jeff Wickersham]: series

[Nick McGowan]: that’s the moment to cry

[Jeff Wickersham]: i was i was at that game

and they showed

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: the re play and tears came instantly

and she was like how the hell do

[Jeff Wickersham]: right away like you know you know

[Nick McGowan]: dude i believe me i mean you

hit on a note with that my mind’s

[Nick McGowan]: eye i see the ball falling off

a table from brad ledge and

[Jeff Wickersham]: yep

[Nick McGowan]: yeah cry now thanks jeff

[Jeff Wickersham]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: but along this stuff with like not

only the porn the alcohol or anything you

[Nick McGowan]: touched on it it’s dopamenhits because we

look at we want a little

[Jeff Wickersham]: m

[Nick McGowan]: happy of things we don’t want to


[Jeff Wickersham]: right

[Nick McGowan]: whatever we’re feeling we just want a

little happy with things but i think if

[Nick McGowan]: we take that step back a born

is a problem or alcohol is a problem

[Nick McGowan]: or whatever those things are those are

still the symptoms and pieces of it but

[Nick McGowan]: you take a step back and look

at the fucking doors that you’re about to

[Nick McGowan]: open it’s a different story and i’ve

had a handful of conversations like this recently

[Nick McGowan]: where it’s been more and more in

my head you sometimes get to a point

[Nick McGowan]: where you have a handful of different

doors but each of those doors could have

[Nick McGowan]: forty other doors behind them and one

of the easiest

[Jeff Wickersham]: m

[Nick McGowan]: ways to not go through that bullshit

is to not go through the sucking door

[Nick McGowan]: but you got to be aware enough

[Jeff Wickersham]: it

[Nick McGowan]: of that door and would you agree

that being aware comes from the discipline throughout

[Nick McGowan]: the day that you do like your

book ends

[Jeff Wickersham]: absolutely

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Jeff Wickersham]: an awareness is such a key piece


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: being able to consciously make a decision

yes or no i would also say piggy

[Jeff Wickersham]: back and off your dope mean right

that that’s that constant dopameate hit we also

[Jeff Wickersham]: are a society that’s go go go


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Jeff Wickersham]: next next busy busy busy so any

time we do something we rob ourselves of

[Jeff Wickersham]: that natural dope mean hit and i


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: coaching clients on this like you go

out for a walk in the morning yes

[Jeff Wickersham]: feel good i just felt a dope

mean hit like and i just felt good

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: why are that celebrated then on to

the next instead of a right i got

[Jeff Wickersham]: my walk i got to meditate go

do that got to that you’re robbing yourself

[Jeff Wickersham]: of wiring what you do that is

good for you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Jeff Wickersham]: with that dope amen hit so if

we can do that a little bit more

[Jeff Wickersham]: celebrating it might feel goofy that double

handed yes it feels good and we should

[Jeff Wickersham]: celebrate when we do things that truly

help us

[Nick McGowan]: yeah and those things right there the

over the top almost sometimes celebrating is part

[Nick McGowan]: of the recipe that’s how our body

will take that and say oh this means

[Nick McGowan]: this and move it along in sad

being like it’s good morning it’s cool moving

[Nick McGowan]: along let me get some coffee oh

ship coffee all right what do we do

[Nick McGowan]: it’s a whole differ thing but i

love the the book ends sort of concept

[Nick McGowan]: of that and the discipline within it

and man it’s been a pleasure to have

[Nick McGowan]: you on i’m sure we could go

through a lot of things one thing i

[Nick McGowan]: want to point out as i appreciate

said water earlier instead of water

[Jeff Wickersham]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: so thank you to the delco people

or anybody from pillit’s listening they’re probably like

[Nick McGowan]: fucking this guy

[Jeff Wickersham]: uh

[Nick McGowan]: but man it’s been so awesome to

have you

[Jeff Wickersham]: h

[Nick McGowan]: for the audience give us that one

piece of advice that you’d give for somebody

[Nick McGowan]: that’s on their path towards self mastery

[Jeff Wickersham]: today is a gift

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Jeff Wickersham]: you will never get again so play

all out use it to its fullest and

[Jeff Wickersham]: that’s what i look to do every

single day

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Jeff Wickersham]: and if more people live that way

this this life this society of this world

[Jeff Wickersham]: it would be on fire and ud

be an amazing amazing place

[Nick McGowan]: yeah i agree man i appreciate that

so hey where can people find you where

[Nick McGowan]: can they connect with you

[Jeff Wickersham]: yes so they can go out to

my website w w w dot the morning

[Jeff Wickersham]: fire dot com if

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Jeff Wickersham]: they want to grab that blue print of book ending your days i’ve got a

[Jeff Wickersham]: book on amazon number one bascella rise fight lover ignite your morning fire i’m out

[Jeff Wickersham]: on all major social channels as well as have a podcast morning fire for entrepreneurs

[Nick McGowan]: awesome man thank you so much for being on it’s been a pleasure to chat

[Nick McGowan]: with you

[Jeff Wickersham]: it was awesome thanks for having me

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