The College CEO Mindset – Ep.015 – Matt Cavanaugh

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Episode summary:​ Matt and I discuss what it’s like to start a business in college… during a pandemic and how to manage your mindset along the way.

Guest Name & Bio: Matt specializes in the tech industry and aspires to change the world through various entrepreneurial ventures. He is also the Co-Founder and CEO of Helpt, an on-demand freelance work service application that serves as a marketplace to connect freelancers and people alike.

Matt Cavanaugh

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[Nick McGowan]: Hey Matt, welcome to the show how are you doing man

[Matt Cavanaugh]: i’m doing well thank you very much for having me on um i’ve watched a lot of your

[Matt Cavanaugh]: podcasts in the past and um you know it’s uh i’m glad you reached out to me via

[Matt Cavanaugh]: linkedin

[Nick McGowan]: i appreciate that man i think it was actually you who reached out to me about the

[Nick McGowan]: uh the show either way you know i’m constantly on linkedin it seems like you

[Nick McGowan]: might be one of those people i think that’s a good way to be able to connect with

[Nick McGowan]: people that are not only doing podcasts but people like yourself that are

[Nick McGowan]: starting companies so matt why don’t we start here why don’t you tell us one

[Nick McGowan]: thing you do for a living and um maybe one thing that most people don’t know

[Nick McGowan]: about you

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yeah so what do i do for a living um well there’s two parts to it i’m i’m in

[Matt Cavanaugh]: college currently uh i’m a junior at the university of buffalo i also you know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: live in buffalo and new york born and raised um my company is called helped it’s

[Matt Cavanaugh]: an on demand freelance work service marketplace where individual

[Nick McGowan]: time out wait

[Matt Cavanaugh]: act

[Nick McGowan]: stop stop you’re cutting out badly so

[Matt Cavanaugh]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: even when you said the name of the company it just completely cut out

[Matt Cavanaugh]: can you hear me now

[Matt Cavanaugh]: i want can you hear me now

[Nick McGowan]: yeah it literally cut out you’re like the name of that and we

[Matt Cavanaugh]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: it was like ah alright

[Matt Cavanaugh]: well now let me

[Matt Cavanaugh]: we go on the wi fi

[Matt Cavanaugh]: alright how about now

[Nick McGowan]: were you hard wired

[Matt Cavanaugh]: barman

[Nick McGowan]: if you were hard wired that’s actually better

[Matt Cavanaugh]: uh no i was um i’m on my phone shall i do this on my computer would that be

[Matt Cavanaugh]: better or

[Nick McGowan]: yeah i mean if you can do it on the computer

[Matt Cavanaugh]: i

[Nick McGowan]: definitely is the computer hard wired or is that wi fi

[Matt Cavanaugh]: ah it’s all wi fi

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Matt Cavanaugh]: all right is it okay now

[Nick McGowan]: i mean right now you see mar right now you seem alright it was

[Matt Cavanaugh]: okay if you prosecute my call

[Nick McGowan]: just literally as you started talking it was cutting out

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yeah my phone wasn’t on the wifi um so i

[Nick McGowan]: got it okay cool

[Matt Cavanaugh]: have been all right yeah then you like this then

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Matt Cavanaugh]: um

[Nick McGowan]: uh we’ll just start it over it’s all

[Matt Cavanaugh]: okay cool

[Nick McGowan]: um so matt why don’t you tell us one thing you do for a living and something that

[Nick McGowan]: most don’t know about you

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yeah so currently i’m in college i’m a college student at the university of

[Matt Cavanaugh]: buffalo i have an app which is a marketplace where freelancers can connect with

[Matt Cavanaugh]: people who need jobs and services completed so to explain a little bit more we

[Matt Cavanaugh]: have fifteen different services that we offer everything from landscaping the

[Matt Cavanaugh]: tutoring to electricians the plumbers you can find on the app so i’ve been

[Matt Cavanaugh]: working on that for a little over two years and you know we just launched um the

[Matt Cavanaugh]: day before thanksgiving so we’ve been out for a very short period of time we’re

[Matt Cavanaugh]: in our beta phase with that and then on the side to answer cause that’s a startup

[Matt Cavanaugh]: to actually earn income um i’m a waiter at a restaurant in buffalo as well and

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yeah i mean i just tore my mcl my knees skiing so i guess that could be you know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: the answer to you know something not a lot of people know about me i haven’t

[Matt Cavanaugh]: really told that many people just because i don’t know exactly if it’s an mcl and

[Matt Cavanaugh]: an acl or exactly how i’m going to be out so i’ve just been kind of just planed

[Matt Cavanaugh]: by year um actually have a doctor’s appointment tomorrow for that but but yeah um

[Matt Cavanaugh]: che your cheesecake factory is where i’m a waiter you know great tips there when

[Matt Cavanaugh]: when you’re able to walk around and then the help that

[Matt Cavanaugh]: that’s my startup company that’s my dream that’s my vision is to to really grow

[Matt Cavanaugh]: that

[Nick McGowan]: so we we were talking before we actually hit record that everybody at some point

[Nick McGowan]: has to work at a restaurant you’ve got to be front of house because if you don’t

[Nick McGowan]: know how to handle people that’ll teach you that’ll teach you how to work with

[Nick McGowan]: those conversations where people are yelling at you about sh and you’re like but

[Nick McGowan]: i i can’t make your food for you like i can only give you the food or get your

[Nick McGowan]: drinks stop yelling at me but now you’re gonna be stuck in the back just rolling

[Nick McGowan]: everybody’s silverware so i’m i’m sure all those waiters waitresses will

[Nick McGowan]: appreciate like just give matt all the silverware let him do it he’ll stay there

[Nick McGowan]: um

[Nick McGowan]: and i i’ve never actually busted my mcl or aco i’ve had a couple friends that

[Nick McGowan]: have done that but how are you managing right now knowing that you’re probably

[Nick McGowan]: looking at six to eight weeks of a boot and wander around and trying to build

[Nick McGowan]: your business and make money how how’s your mind doing

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yeah so i mean when it first happened um you know i was i was upset obviously

[Matt Cavanaugh]: just because i need money to go into my company and then we’re actually saving up

[Matt Cavanaugh]: to go to silicon valley this summer for our app so obviously silicon valley

[Matt Cavanaugh]: that’s a very high cost of living especially when you know come from buffalo

[Matt Cavanaugh]: where we’re at right now where the cost of living is lower and i mean r as soon

[Matt Cavanaugh]: as i tore it like i knew it was torn right away um i i was interested and as soon

[Matt Cavanaugh]: as i went down in right away i was thinking i was like silicon valley the summer

[Matt Cavanaugh]: like i’m not gonna be able to do it like the only way i thought i was gonna be

[Matt Cavanaugh]: able to get there was if i waited tables made enough money doing that which is

[Matt Cavanaugh]: really good money be the only way like a normal minimum wage job would be very

[Matt Cavanaugh]: difficult to to have and then be able to save up enough money to go to silicon

[Matt Cavanaugh]: valley this summer um

[Matt Cavanaugh]: so you know when i sat down i kind of realized well you know i i don’t know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: exactly what it is yet the doctor does know it’s an mcl if it’s just the mcl you

[Matt Cavanaugh]: know you don’t always need to get surgery it it may not be that bad of an injury

[Matt Cavanaugh]: if it’s an acl two that’s a lot worse injury you know you got to get the surgery

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you’re out for you know six plus weeks

[Matt Cavanaugh]: whatever it is exactly so you know i don’t know exactly what it is yet um like i

[Matt Cavanaugh]: said my i find out and you know we’ll go from there but i am rolling silverware

[Matt Cavanaugh]: in the back of the restaurant

[Matt Cavanaugh]: am taking business calls from the back uh talking to the other lady audra who

[Matt Cavanaugh]: works next to me and you know we’re making the best of the situation and that’s

[Matt Cavanaugh]: really all you can do right

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Matt Cavanaugh]: i i don’t think it’ll stop me from going this summer i still plan on going and

[Matt Cavanaugh]: figuring it out one way or another um you know so there’s nothing you know part

[Matt Cavanaugh]: of part of the show honestly and how this ties in mindset you know you’re going

[Matt Cavanaugh]: to have adversities i’ve had a lot of adversities with just starting the company

[Matt Cavanaugh]: alone more adversity this past two years with the company that i’ve ever had in

[Matt Cavanaugh]: my entire life

[Nick McGowan]: hey

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and you know you just have to overcome those those things and literally just

[Matt Cavanaugh]: fight through ’em um and you know that’s that’s how you have a successful life

[Nick McGowan]: i think there’s adversity and then there’s being a buffalo bills fan and having

[Nick McGowan]: to deal with all of that at least you guys are starting to look good now and look

[Nick McGowan]: i’m originally from philly so i bleed green and when i think of mcl and acl i

[Nick McGowan]: think of carson wins going down and how that changed everything for him and i

[Nick McGowan]: wish i could say a better situation but i don’t think he’s gonna be on the cults

[Nick McGowan]: next year

[Nick McGowan]: but the fact that you’ve been through some craziness over the past two years

[Nick McGowan]: isn’t unlike most people but it sounds like your craziness is a bit different

[Nick McGowan]: where some people have gone through health issues and covid type stuff

[Nick McGowan]: let’s kind of recoil a little bit though and take a step back how did you

[Nick McGowan]: actually get to the point that you wanted to start the company do you have

[Nick McGowan]: entrepreneurs in your family like was this just an idea that came up because you

[Nick McGowan]: were like look i’m trying to help my neighbors and like give us a little bit of

[Nick McGowan]: background

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yeah so my partner and i originally came up with the idea when we were door

[Matt Cavanaugh]: dashing pandemic hits and really all the stars line for this company to be built

[Matt Cavanaugh]: like if covid never happened this company probably wouldn’t exist

[Matt Cavanaugh]: if i couldn’t have gotten the door dash app on my phone for some reason it

[Matt Cavanaugh]: wouldn’t let me sign up as a door dasher i have no idea why it just wouldn’t let

[Matt Cavanaugh]: me do it so i was like i got with my buddy i was like we need the door to like i

[Matt Cavanaugh]: want kind of on a door to ask like i know you have the app like i’ll drive my car

[Matt Cavanaugh]: he didn’t have a car right so like all these stars were aligning for us to be

[Matt Cavanaugh]: doring together i mean i’m i’ve great buddies with the guy but it was awful money

[Matt Cavanaugh]: because we split everything so like

[Matt Cavanaugh]: what were we really making like there’s no way you make more than twenty dollars

[Matt Cavanaugh]: an hour door to ashing and let’s say you made twenty two dollars an hour we’re

[Matt Cavanaugh]: splitting that so it’s eleven a piece you know what i mean and then i’m paying

[Matt Cavanaugh]: for the gas so i mean it really made no sense for me to be doing it but covid

[Matt Cavanaugh]: just had we were like kind of bored honestly we’re like you know we’ll go mess

[Matt Cavanaugh]: around on door dash um try to make some money and we’re doing it we were like wow

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you know this kind of like the first day was fun then the second day we did in a

[Matt Cavanaugh]: row we were kind of like alright this kind of sucks in the matter of like you’re

[Matt Cavanaugh]: just doing the same thing the entire time

[Matt Cavanaugh]: it doesn’t pay like really all that good you know it’s it’s damn near minimum

[Matt Cavanaugh]: wage what you’ making at door dash

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and we were like i wish there was a way that like we could use our talents you

[Matt Cavanaugh]: know we were like alright what tense do we have so you know i played hockey and he

[Matt Cavanaugh]: played cross and like this was at the time as well so it’s my freshman year in

[Matt Cavanaugh]: college and he did a postgraduate year so he was going to be a freshman and

[Matt Cavanaugh]: we’re like you know hawking across can we teach these sports through like an app

[Matt Cavanaugh]: like where if there’s an app where you could go to like a middle school’s house

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and like train ’em and like hack you across and like not like we couldn’t find

[Matt Cavanaugh]: anything like that first of all so we thought we had this like original idea and

[Matt Cavanaugh]: then we say why stop

[Nick McGowan]: nice

[Matt Cavanaugh]: at just hawking across we said like let’s just do like there’s way bigger markets

[Matt Cavanaugh]: right like people need services and you know personal trainers anything all the

[Matt Cavanaugh]: time so we said all right we’re going to open it up and be like in amazon as

[Matt Cavanaugh]: services like that’s literally like the term we use like amazon as services and

[Matt Cavanaugh]: we thought we had this like super original idea

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and turns out it wasn’t all that original you know there are other companies out

[Matt Cavanaugh]: there that that kind of do what we did but we kind of saw it as an opportunity we

[Matt Cavanaugh]: said you know no one’s ever hurt like we’ve never heard of these companies none

[Matt Cavanaugh]: of our friends have it never used them they’re really not in our area are that

[Matt Cavanaugh]: prevalent um let’s go for it like let’s try and actually create this and i

[Matt Cavanaugh]: believe at the beginning

[Matt Cavanaugh]: we were i mean we were so like new in the business and like everything we sat

[Matt Cavanaugh]: down and we made a list and we spent a long time on this list like hours on this

[Matt Cavanaugh]: list and it was every possible service that you could ever imagine like to like a

[Matt Cavanaugh]: handicap

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt Cavanaugh]: bookie like or a handicap like odds maker like to to help you with sports batting

[Matt Cavanaugh]: like that was one of the ca like they were so specific like that

[Matt Cavanaugh]: consulting of everything under the sun there was literally thousands of different

[Matt Cavanaugh]: services and then when we were creating the app we outsourced it originally and

[Matt Cavanaugh]: we went to the people and they were like you guys can’t do all these these

[Matt Cavanaugh]: different things like who’s like how are you gonna feel like even

[Matt Cavanaugh]: like twenty of these different services and we were like okay so we scale it down

[Matt Cavanaugh]: um and then that’s where we came to

[Matt Cavanaugh]: but yeah that that’s really where it came from just literally door dashing um my

[Matt Cavanaugh]: boy looked at me and and you know so like when don’t we use our talents you know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: i said why isn’t it be an app and then from that point forward you know we

[Matt Cavanaugh]: stopped door dashing and we started working on this company and and trying to

[Matt Cavanaugh]: really create you know something something

[Matt Cavanaugh]: something out of it

[Nick McGowan]: sure i’m sure there was also a lot more than just like well you know i’m in

[Nick McGowan]: hockey you’re in the lacrosse shit let’s make a list of thousands of different

[Nick McGowan]: things we can do so how did you jump from like well we’re gonna teach people the

[Nick McGowan]: sports that we know to

[Nick McGowan]: what are the other things

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Nick McGowan]: the overall fifteen list that you came up with what’s the importance of that

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yeah so

[Matt Cavanaugh]: what what really happened was you know how it transitioned from hiking across to

[Matt Cavanaugh]: the amazon services we kind of sat down where you said like okay like hockey and

[Matt Cavanaugh]: la cross like those are pretty popular sports in our area but we said you know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: are people going to want to download a singular app

[Matt Cavanaugh]: just to do those different things like we kind of thought that was too niche and

[Matt Cavanaugh]: then we said you know people don’t need those things every day so to say

[Matt Cavanaugh]: so we said like let’s just let’s do different categories like we’ll have a

[Matt Cavanaugh]: personal training but like why don’t we do like like landscapers and and things

[Matt Cavanaugh]: of that sort cause we we had don me and him actually did landscaping together

[Matt Cavanaugh]: over the one summer i think it was like two summers before that we did we found

[Matt Cavanaugh]: this guy in craig’s list he hired us for the whole summer to be landscapers with

[Matt Cavanaugh]: them but we kind of thought you know we’ve done a lot of this stuff

[Matt Cavanaugh]: i had i posted on home advisor that could remove popcorn ceilings so me and him

[Matt Cavanaugh]: went to this guy’s house the one day and he i think he gave us like five or six

[Matt Cavanaugh]: hundred dollars and we just scraped the popcorn ceilings off of this kitchen um

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and we were kind of like alright like we can do this sort of stuff why don’t why

[Matt Cavanaugh]: doesn’t the app open up to more categories and then that’s where the amazon and

[Matt Cavanaugh]: services kind of came from and we didn’t realize that like oh like how are we

[Matt Cavanaugh]: ever gonna be able to fill these these different things to so early on um and

[Matt Cavanaugh]: then once they started kind of thinking about creating the app the

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you know they obviously came back to us and said like first of all there’d be a

[Matt Cavanaugh]: ton of work to like type all these in here talking about like you got like the

[Matt Cavanaugh]: business model wouldn’t make sense if you guys did that and again we were so

[Matt Cavanaugh]: early on in the like business like we really weren’t fully thinking things

[Matt Cavanaugh]: through like we do now um like like now if we want to add something and you know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: there’s certain questions that that have to be check marked off like everything’s

[Matt Cavanaugh]: way more strategic um you know there’s more systems put in place just because

[Matt Cavanaugh]: we’ve been doing it longer but at the start a lot of things were just very

[Matt Cavanaugh]: sporadic um but that was good because that’s what was able to get us to kind of

[Matt Cavanaugh]: actually get moving on the company because one of the things that i really

[Matt Cavanaugh]: believe is when you’re first starting out with anything you know your early

[Matt Cavanaugh]: momentum is key because like you come up with this idea and then it’s like

[Matt Cavanaugh]: alright like how fast can you just like get moving on it and then you just want

[Matt Cavanaugh]: to like attack attack attack because once you lose that early momentum then

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you’re kind of like okay like this company is dragging on you know you you can

[Matt Cavanaugh]: get on motivated you know what’s happen to me with like other ideas i’ve had in

[Matt Cavanaugh]: the past i could have swarm like oh like this is the next big idea go tell my mom

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you know i go and tell her like i even told her about the help that and she was

[Matt Cavanaugh]: kind of like alright look this is another one of your ideas why it’s we see if you

[Matt Cavanaugh]: go out and do something with it and then got that early momentum

[Matt Cavanaugh]: part partly due to covid partly due to us kind of like isolating ourselves away

[Matt Cavanaugh]: from everything and we came in and we kind of said you know we’re just gonna

[Matt Cavanaugh]: attack this company and that it went out from there

[Nick McGowan]: yeah i think you hit a couple of key things that a lot of people miss out on as

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yes

[Nick McGowan]: you go through and you figure out ideas of stuff that you want to do just do

[Nick McGowan]: something just do something

[Matt Cavanaugh]: two

[Nick McGowan]: start moving on something a lot of people forget that there’s such power and the

[Nick McGowan]: momentum

[Nick McGowan]: they don’t even start it because then they think well there’s all this other

[Nick McGowan]: stuff and you know what about these things so on one hand now that you know what

[Nick McGowan]: you know you’ll know that going into the next situation like oh you know what we

[Nick McGowan]: should really think about production how are we going to produce this stuff what

[Nick McGowan]: are we going to do how are we gonna fulfill this and actually service all of this

[Nick McGowan]: and that’s something you kind of have to learn but the fact that you actually

[Nick McGowan]: took that step and we’re like let’s just do it let’s just start moving and start

[Nick McGowan]: doing things with it there’s a lot of power within just taking those steps so how

[Nick McGowan]: was your partner with that and understanding that you guys just need to act upon

[Nick McGowan]: something and kind of keep that momentum going

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yeah so he was the one to really isn’t this like crazy mindset in the company like

[Matt Cavanaugh]: he was the first one to like i don’t know where he came up with it i don’t know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: if he stumbled upon a youtube video and then all of a sud like he just kind of

[Matt Cavanaugh]: said like this is what we have to do i think part of it was due to the fact he

[Matt Cavanaugh]: went away to prop school

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and you know if he’s on here he would tell you guys all about it he’s actually

[Matt Cavanaugh]: working right now to earn money so we can you know help fund their company

[Matt Cavanaugh]: happened to be one of the days he got scheduled but um we he went to a like

[Matt Cavanaugh]: glomus chafe prop school and did a postgraduate year there and i think he was

[Matt Cavanaugh]: surrounded you know it was a prop school right you dorm there it’s pretty strict

[Matt Cavanaugh]: um and that really changed his mindset and then when we started the company i

[Matt Cavanaugh]: think he saw kind of what it would take for this to to go where we wanted it to

[Matt Cavanaugh]: go right like how is this company even gonna launch like we can’t act or operate

[Matt Cavanaugh]: or you know do things the way we used to do things right we almost got to you

[Matt Cavanaugh]: know reinvent ourselves as as individuals and you know like i keep saying covid

[Matt Cavanaugh]: het and that was the perfect excuse for us to you know tell people we can’t go

[Matt Cavanaugh]: out you know we’re we’re working on stuff and then i kind of sat there i i looked

[Matt Cavanaugh]: at him and i go kk like any going out any anything that’s going on in the world

[Matt Cavanaugh]: right now is pretty much put to a halt you know we’re not missing anything by

[Matt Cavanaugh]: just spy friday and saturday night’s working on this app because there’s nothing

[Matt Cavanaugh]: really going on anyway you know and you know that that was really key because we

[Matt Cavanaugh]: were able to get a ahead on those friday and saturday nights by you know staying

[Matt Cavanaugh]: in and working on the company so now we’re working you know seven days a week

[Matt Cavanaugh]: just trying to get this thing you know to something that can be launched we’re

[Matt Cavanaugh]: talking with everyone we can possibly talk to on linkedin um

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you know we’re doing crazy mindset of things where um you know we’re we’re

[Matt Cavanaugh]: meeting up with each other and we’re saying you can only talk business

[Matt Cavanaugh]: professionally for the next eight hours straight

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you know we’ve done when the semester starts for school most kids do how or most

[Matt Cavanaugh]: kids do like it’s called like s this week at college right where like you can go

[Matt Cavanaugh]: out with the class they’re super easy everyone goes out parties not knocking that

[Matt Cavanaugh]: but you know in order to build a company you know like we’re trying to build

[Matt Cavanaugh]: we’ve said you know we have to be a way different than we we’re going forego our

[Matt Cavanaugh]: college experience you know to to make this happen right now you know so and we

[Matt Cavanaugh]: were totally willing to do it um and you know i do remember he was the the

[Matt Cavanaugh]: first one to really come up with that that crazy mindset and then he kind of put

[Matt Cavanaugh]: that mind set on to me and then now it’s just we we push each other it’s almost

[Matt Cavanaugh]: like it’s almost like competition and like it’s like alright who who does more

[Matt Cavanaugh]: work you know what i mean and we’re constantly competing like if you’re gonna hop

[Matt Cavanaugh]: on at you know after a long day at work school and everything you’re gonna hop on

[Matt Cavanaugh]: a call at twelve thirty at night you know i’m going to get on and we’re we’re

[Matt Cavanaugh]: both going to work you know um and we and we do work on the company it’s an

[Matt Cavanaugh]: everyday thing at this point it’s it’s an everyday thing totally um but back to

[Matt Cavanaugh]: the the sobs week thing the start of each semester we call it a hell week and

[Matt Cavanaugh]: it’s kind of like an a nice reset in the matter of you know we wake up at six a m

[Matt Cavanaugh]: in the morning the first thing you do in the day you want a three mile run

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and then the rest of the day for a whole week we have everything mapped out to

[Matt Cavanaugh]: like a tea you know there’s no nap during the day’s no there’s no going out

[Matt Cavanaugh]: there’s no like it’s a straight grind mode thing

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and because it’s that first week of school you know most of it’s on helped or

[Matt Cavanaugh]: it’s like working an actual job but um and you know that’s that that kind of gets

[Matt Cavanaugh]: us in the right mindset to say all right you know we’re going to have a semester

[Matt Cavanaugh]: longer school the school gets you know gets in the way at things so you know this

[Matt Cavanaugh]: is going to be a nice reset this is you know we’re walking in on a great foot

[Matt Cavanaugh]: going forward every semes um when we do that so that’s just another one of those

[Matt Cavanaugh]: little sett things that that we do just uh just a reset to say alright like

[Matt Cavanaugh]: what’s like we’re gonna attack this semester and then and they move forward with

[Matt Cavanaugh]: it

[Nick McGowan]: it’s cool that you can play like little games with yourself it depends on how

[Nick McGowan]: people work some people enjoy the some people don’t they get frustrated even with

[Nick McGowan]: themselves like you said you were gonna do this go damn it i don’t want to do it

[Nick McGowan]: though then they fight with themselves and it just run away but that

[Nick McGowan]: accountability is huge so to have somebody else there to go yo we said we would

[Nick McGowan]: do this thing we said we would be on a call i i can tell some of the competitions

[Nick McGowan]: there

[Nick McGowan]: it’s easy to be in competition with a friend and especially a partner as you guys

[Nick McGowan]: are building something the image of my head is almost like it’s not as much

[Nick McGowan]: competition as it is climbing up

[Nick McGowan]: like an alley where you’re you got two buildings that are five six feet across

[Nick McGowan]: and you have both of you back to back being able to walk up if one of you tries

[Nick McGowan]: to get up you’re not spider man you’re not able to climb the wall so to be able

[Nick McGowan]: to have that other person there is huge but i want to touch on what you had said

[Nick McGowan]: quickly and then kind of like bounce away from it that it’s you and him and it’s

[Nick McGowan]: the stuff that you guys are working through you as a person need to be different

[Nick McGowan]: than you were and most people when they go to college especially the first couple

[Nick McGowan]: years they typically major in the other sex and alcohol and the fact that you’re

[Nick McGowan]: like we need to calm down a little bit on that to be able to focus on this stuff

[Nick McGowan]: how are you actually working on yourself what are you doing right now to manage

[Nick McGowan]: that mindset and grow

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yeah so i mean just like any other college student when we both entered college

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you know we’re the same way um you know we used to go out all the time you know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: not saying and i’m not knocking anyone who does do this right

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Matt Cavanaugh]: a good thing that that someone once told me a a good friend of mine told me you

[Matt Cavanaugh]: know he he had his own business

[Matt Cavanaugh]: um he was actually washing windows at the time and like he like turned into a

[Matt Cavanaugh]: power washing company like very successful and he told me he said you know we

[Matt Cavanaugh]: actually live together and he kind of looked at me he goes he you know once

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you’re brady dive in and take the step kind of out of this lifestyle like when

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you want dive in on your business cause i would always say like oh you know like

[Matt Cavanaugh]: i want to start a business i wanna do this that he’s like wait till you’re ready

[Matt Cavanaugh]: to go in and actually take that step forward because if you have asset there’s no

[Matt Cavanaugh]: point you might as well just keep messing around you know until you’re actually

[Matt Cavanaugh]: serious where you want to dive head first and you know totally go for it and so

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you know i o ever since he told me that i always kind of took that for and then

[Matt Cavanaugh]: when we finally did start the company it was kind of like alright i’m gonna die

[Matt Cavanaugh]: then i we’re gonna go all in on this like we’re gonna stop parting we’re gonna

[Matt Cavanaugh]: cut the shad we’re not gonna act like normal kids you you know i mean we’re not

[Matt Cavanaugh]: gonna act like you know like these hooligans almost you know like we’re gonna go

[Matt Cavanaugh]: hard with this company and we’re not gonna look back and we’re gonna attack it

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and anything that gets in our way we’re gonna run through that barrier and we’re

[Matt Cavanaugh]: never gonna give up no matter what there were so many times when you know we

[Matt Cavanaugh]: could have given up and me and my partner swear to god look at each other and we

[Matt Cavanaugh]: say this will become a billion dollar company and in the beginning it was almost

[Matt Cavanaugh]: like we were just kind of saying that to each other

[Matt Cavanaugh]: but now there’s a true belief that both of us do believe that it will get there

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and the only the literally the only thing that’s stopping us is ourselves right

[Matt Cavanaugh]: that’s literally the only thing that could ever get in the way of this becoming a

[Matt Cavanaugh]: billion dollar company is something that we personally do ourselves which could

[Matt Cavanaugh]: be you know like

[Matt Cavanaugh]: getting a girlfriend that distracts you right we both had girlfriends at at a

[Matt Cavanaugh]: time and decided alright we have like we’re cutting these out because they don’t

[Matt Cavanaugh]: align with where we want to go with what our dreams are right

[Matt Cavanaugh]: another thing could be you know the partying the the going out all the bullshit

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you know you cut out that out you’re gonna have so much more time and it’ll

[Matt Cavanaugh]: always be there too partying girls going out hanging out will always be there for

[Matt Cavanaugh]: the rest of your life it’s not going anywhere um

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you know and one of my things is that i think of like oh like everyone’s going

[Matt Cavanaugh]: out you know that’s not something you think about this is like t the mindset part

[Matt Cavanaugh]: of it too like this is just like a way of thinking is you know no one’s gonna

[Matt Cavanaugh]: talk about that one specific time everyone out went out a year from now you know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: what i mean like there’s so many opportunities for it to happen and and there

[Matt Cavanaugh]: will be for the rest of your life um so if that’s one of the things you know for

[Matt Cavanaugh]: the viewers that’s one of the things that is kind of like distracting you or

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you’re wasting your time on you know cut it out you know grind for a couple of

[Matt Cavanaugh]: years and then when you come back to it you know you’re not gonna be partying in

[Matt Cavanaugh]: a basement or wherever you’re gonna be you know out at sea on a freaking yacht

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you know that’s that’s the type of way we’re we’re thinking over here with that

[Nick McGowan]: i think there’s balance that needs to be had no matter what you do you know if

[Nick McGowan]: you just lock yourself in a room and just keep working and working and working

[Nick McGowan]: yeah dude honestly that’ll work for a bit and you keep it going but at some point

[Nick McGowan]: you’re going to be driven mad but you’ve got to be able to have some sort of

[Nick McGowan]: balance i mean when you think we need to be able to actually sleep like you can’t

[Nick McGowan]: just work throughout the day and throughout the night maybe vampires but you know

[Nick McGowan]: i don’t really know any of those actual vampires some people just seem that way

[Nick McGowan]: but when you think of like you have to take those little eight hour or six hour

[Nick McGowan]: just jot away

[Nick McGowan]: how are you balancing right now to understand like yeah i get it you’re not gonna

[Nick McGowan]: go out you’re not gonna party you ditch the girl and like all of that’s

[Nick McGowan]: that’s appreciated for the journey but how are you actually managing balancing

[Nick McGowan]: life where you have some ut where you go alright i just need to relax for a

[Nick McGowan]: minute get my shit together and then i get fired up and go back into it

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yeah for sure um one good way is you can buy them so you know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: some down time maybe you know you do go out right so i’ll go out you know i like

[Matt Cavanaugh]: to do thirteen days on one day off take every other saturday and go do something

[Matt Cavanaugh]: fun you know what i mean but i like to combine that with alright like we’re gonna

[Matt Cavanaugh]: go out but i’m gonna go out with people who also own their own companies you know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: our

[Nick McGowan]: ahead

[Matt Cavanaugh]: entrepreneurial mind and what ends up happening is you know put all these people

[Matt Cavanaugh]: in a room you know even we’re drinking we’re out we’re getting food um maybe

[Matt Cavanaugh]: we’re even out of the car but you know a lot of the talk is still centered

[Matt Cavanaugh]: towards business at the end of the day and you’re still

[Matt Cavanaugh]: relaxing or you’re having a great time when you’re with your friends but you’re

[Matt Cavanaugh]: also learning at the same time and you’re and you’re saying and it it’s not to

[Matt Cavanaugh]: the level that it is when you’re you know sitting it’s different right it’s a

[Matt Cavanaugh]: different perspective but you know a lot of the really high high level successful

[Matt Cavanaugh]: people you know we just kind of started doing this but a lot of the really high

[Matt Cavanaugh]: level successful people say like they’ve combined like their work

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and their you know normal life and it’s just kind of merged into one because like

[Matt Cavanaugh]: this is what i wanna do this is what i enjoy doing you know i enjoy talking about

[Matt Cavanaugh]: business

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and you know all of our friends are the same way

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Matt Cavanaugh]: now right they’re in the business they’re to starting their own companies you

[Matt Cavanaugh]: know one of them starting a soar company right now he’s out in california so when

[Matt Cavanaugh]: we talk on the phone like i’m relaxing like that’s my time off

[Matt Cavanaugh]: but you know we’re still talking about the business gets worked into it you know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: so we’re kind of living in this lifestyle where you know we’re grinding our asses

[Matt Cavanaugh]: off but then when we’re not we’re hanging out we’re having a good time obviously

[Matt Cavanaugh]: uh but that business has still worked into it as well which

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Matt Cavanaugh]: is pretty nice been able to have that kind of setup that we

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt Cavanaugh]: do where where it’s like that

[Nick McGowan]: some people have

[Nick McGowan]: this fantasy about work life balance and that has been a thing probably since the

[Nick McGowan]: fifty seconds or sixty seconds when they wanted to be able to do work and then go

[Nick McGowan]: home and have the nuclear family and all that stuff and i think what you hit on a

[Nick McGowan]: big thing that people are now starting to realize that no it’s just a life

[Nick McGowan]: balance you’ve got to be balanced within life and you got to do the thing that

[Nick McGowan]: matters to you if you don’t the you do in

[Nick McGowan]: i know when i have those times where i need to just step away and i have

[Nick McGowan]: conversations with friends it’s similar where we’ll get into things because

[Nick McGowan]: that’s the echelon of people that i choose to have around me and it sounds like

[Nick McGowan]: you’re in that spot now where you’re starting to choose those people and that

[Nick McGowan]: gets back to you where you know if you said it you’re like i like to have these

[Nick McGowan]: conversations but i just go out and get blackout drunk and whatever happens

[Nick McGowan]: happens you’re not really able to have those conversations that you want to have

[Nick McGowan]: so it’s interesting that you’ve hit on systems where you know you have your

[Nick McGowan]: thirteen one thirteen days on one day i’ll go off i’ll go do these different

[Nick McGowan]: things i think there’s something in there that some people don’t realize are you

[Nick McGowan]: familiar with the habit stacking

[Matt Cavanaugh]: have it snacking

[Nick McGowan]: it’s

[Matt Cavanaugh]: is that like where

[Nick McGowan]: basically what you said

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yeah where you’re taking look what you start off with maybe it’s like every

[Matt Cavanaugh]: saturday and then it would become like every other saturday or something like

[Matt Cavanaugh]: that is is that

[Nick McGowan]: well it’s kind of where where you put yourself into a situation to do something

[Nick McGowan]: that’s habitual and then add in another habit i’ll give you an example so every

[Nick McGowan]: morning i meditate a journal and i do a handful of other things that are like

[Nick McGowan]: part of my morning my miracle morning in a sense but every single day when i

[Nick McGowan]: meditate i know that i’m journaling next or i’m journaling first and then

[Nick McGowan]: meditating because i’ve stacked those two together and it sounds like you’ve kind

[Nick McGowan]: of put yourself in that spot without even realizing it which is great to be able

[Nick McGowan]: to go off i’m going to do these things i’m going to

[Matt Cavanaugh]: these things

[Nick McGowan]: do these other things as well and i want to take a little bit of a step back

[Nick McGowan]: because i don’t think that’s

[Nick McGowan]: maybe consistently an innate trait i think people have to get that from somewhere

[Nick McGowan]: so did you grow up in an entrepreneurial household do you have family members

[Nick McGowan]: that are entrepreneurs like w where did the bug come from

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yeah so i would say my mother um she didn’t own her own business but she was

[Matt Cavanaugh]: marketing she would sales like commission based sales so she was almost like her

[Matt Cavanaugh]: own boss you know at like in order to get food on the table she had to sell you

[Matt Cavanaugh]: know the product and if you in soll the product there wasn’t food on the table

[Matt Cavanaugh]: she did very well at at selling the product um you know there would even become

[Matt Cavanaugh]: points where she’d say you know her boss or the the company owner you know would

[Matt Cavanaugh]: cut her below her commission rate because she was just earning so much you know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: off of it and the number to him would just seemed absurd that a salesperson that

[Matt Cavanaugh]: the company could be making that you know so she would always be you know on the

[Matt Cavanaugh]: phone you know when i was little i’d always see her on the phone i taking these

[Matt Cavanaugh]: like business calls you know where i have to be quiet and then she talk and like

[Matt Cavanaugh]: it’s almost like project managing this stuff to ensure that it gets out to the

[Matt Cavanaugh]: customer

[Matt Cavanaugh]: because she’d sell stuff that the company couldn’t even offer but she’d say they

[Matt Cavanaugh]: would and then she’d outsource it and do that whole thing as well so she was

[Matt Cavanaugh]: almost acting as like product manager it almost seemed like she was like running

[Matt Cavanaugh]: a company the way she was you know signing out orders to all these other people

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and then i was you know i always just knew like even in kindergarten like you

[Matt Cavanaugh]: would write what do you want to be when you’re older and i would write a business

[Matt Cavanaugh]: man and like that’s what i wanted to do i wanted to own a business and i didn’t

[Matt Cavanaugh]: know what i didn’t know what it was gonna be but i wanted it to be big i wanted

[Matt Cavanaugh]: to be like you know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: that sort of like dream that you have like you own your own company like it’s a

[Matt Cavanaugh]: big company

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and that was always my that was always my dream growing up so

[Nick McGowan]: yeah it sounds like you you learn that from your parents you know some people

[Nick McGowan]: learn how to be shitty from their parents some people also learn

[Nick McGowan]: how to how to start a business or run a business the image of my head as you’re

[Nick McGowan]: talking about that is you just kind of witnessing your mom do what she was doing

[Matt Cavanaugh]: people

[Nick McGowan]: and you’re just absorbing that and through osmosis i’m sure that’s translated in

[Nick McGowan]: some of your conversations even resourcefulness to be like how do i figure this

[Nick McGowan]: out what do i need to do you you you gonna help me can you help me can you help

[Nick McGowan]: me you know to be in that sort of spot i think has to come from somebody that’s

[Nick McGowan]: been there i grew up in an entrepreneurial household one half of the the other

[Nick McGowan]: half not the same house but dev house was an entrepreneurial so i was able to see

[Nick McGowan]: kind of the contrast between them and being able to see that and have that

[Nick McGowan]: almost initial balance can be key so you and your partner right now are trying to

[Nick McGowan]: figure out how to grow this thing want to take a little bit of a side step to

[Nick McGowan]: where you’re at right now and where your heads at and what you’re going through

[Nick McGowan]: and all are there any major moments or episodes that you’ve been through in life

[Nick McGowan]: that you can look at and say that was one of those times it changed me it’s

[Nick McGowan]: actually been a benefit to where you’re at now

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yeah um

[Matt Cavanaugh]: hm

[Matt Cavanaugh]: it’s hard to pinpoint exactly you know one

[Matt Cavanaugh]: instance where like

[Matt Cavanaugh]: we were at like a point where you know like things just like magically snap you

[Matt Cavanaugh]: know or like i can look back and be like i learn like something at this specific

[Matt Cavanaugh]: moment because with the company i feel like you know every day is like a little

[Matt Cavanaugh]: learning experience and like not a bit ha like it’s a slow moving wa none of that

[Matt Cavanaugh]: happens overnight like you don’t just wake up and then you know have all these

[Matt Cavanaugh]: users using your product or you don’t one day you know it come down to one

[Matt Cavanaugh]: decision

[Matt Cavanaugh]: where you know it’s like like that’s what made this company you know it’s like

[Matt Cavanaugh]: there’s so many small little facets that like we had to go through and like we

[Matt Cavanaugh]: made mistakes like heck we made a lot of mistakes

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you know from

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you know i would say one of them

[Matt Cavanaugh]: i mean you look at like it’s hard though because i look at these mistakes and i

[Matt Cavanaugh]: say like if we wouldn’t have made like we had to make that mistake you know what

[Matt Cavanaugh]: i mean like we outsourced our company you know we pay tens of thousands of

[Matt Cavanaugh]: dollars to to get an app built when we probably shouldn’t have did that but you

[Matt Cavanaugh]: know who would have believed us to what developer would would we have been able

[Matt Cavanaugh]: to convince that early on that we wouldn’t had to pay that we could just pay him

[Matt Cavanaugh]: an ac you know what i mean like we had to like those were just things that like

[Matt Cavanaugh]: we had to make mistakes on we had to do those certain things and then you come

[Matt Cavanaugh]: out of it and you learn you know so now i know you want your team fully in house

[Matt Cavanaugh]: that’s like rule number one um and i’m not knocking the outsourcing agency that

[Matt Cavanaugh]: we that we use

[Matt Cavanaugh]: i’m just saying you know from a startup experience you want to generally as much

[Matt Cavanaugh]: as you possibly can have everything done in house

[Matt Cavanaugh]: just because you’re able to oversee it way more you’re able to watch it way more

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and again that’s that’s what we learned by t by outsourcing our our original

[Matt Cavanaugh]: product

[Matt Cavanaugh]: i could say

[Matt Cavanaugh]: probably one of the toughest things to do was just the whole mindset thing behind

[Matt Cavanaugh]: it right like becoming that different i at the end of the day like i’m still the

[Matt Cavanaugh]: same guy that like i was before i started the call like deep down like say values

[Matt Cavanaugh]: like it’s not like you drastically change you kind of change your behaviors i’d

[Matt Cavanaugh]: say um so you know now i have a calendar with everything’s written down

[Matt Cavanaugh]: throughout the day

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you know there’s there’s more focus spent on what i’m doing

[Matt Cavanaugh]: there’s there’s these little things that we do you know we do the how week we you

[Matt Cavanaugh]: know do the thirteen days on one day off because because we have to and because

[Matt Cavanaugh]: we enjoy it too you know there’s

[Matt Cavanaugh]: the company wouldn’t work if you didn’t do that

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Matt Cavanaugh]: right and oh once it it it is gonna pay off that’s that’s another thing it’s like

[Matt Cavanaugh]: it’s like when a doctor starting a company is pretty much the same thing as like

[Matt Cavanaugh]: a doctor going to med school like do you think they’re sitting in med school

[Matt Cavanaugh]: saying like oh my god this is like so much fun like i love mad school like no

[Matt Cavanaugh]: they’re probably like this is a lot of work you know like any logical person

[Matt Cavanaugh]: wouldn’t do it if the end goal wasn’t you know this great feeling of

[Matt Cavanaugh]: accomplishment um which is kind of what we’re chasing is that just you know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: feeling of like you know wow like i did i had this crazy high goal and i went out

[Matt Cavanaugh]: there and i accomplished it and you know you see so many people out there are

[Matt Cavanaugh]: like those type of people where they want to do that like support a climbing

[Matt Cavanaugh]: mount everest you know what i mean like you get to you put in all this hard work

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and you finally get to the top and it’s like oh my god you know you get that

[Matt Cavanaugh]: really good feeling and it’s just like you’re brain producing like crazy mouse

[Matt Cavanaugh]: dopamine but you were like wow like this is like a really good experience you can

[Matt Cavanaugh]: look back and you can say you know i worked super hard for a prolonged period of

[Matt Cavanaugh]: time to be able to to accomplish this and you know it it taught me this this and

[Matt Cavanaugh]: that and you know and you take all the positives away from it and learn from all

[Matt Cavanaugh]: the negatives

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you know that’s essentially kind of what we’re doing and you know you’ve

[Matt Cavanaugh]: definitely i feel like everyone’s experienced this but you know yourself with the

[Matt Cavanaugh]: podcasts you know there was definitely hard work you know that had to be put in

[Matt Cavanaugh]: to to get to where you’re at right now to get people hitting you up and asking

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you to come on until where you have a selective process now because i bet you

[Matt Cavanaugh]: know in the the earlier days it was probably a little bit easier to get on than

[Matt Cavanaugh]: it is nowadays where you have options you have different routes that you’re able

[Matt Cavanaugh]: to go and do

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you know

[Nick McGowan]: partially some of that even came back from

[Nick McGowan]: look we’re we’re different in age i have started companies the first company i

[Nick McGowan]: started was right around how old you are so i’ve learned so much since then to by

[Nick McGowan]: the time i’ve jumped into the podcast this was another part of my business i’m a

[Nick McGowan]: coach outside of this so this is an extension of the business but i’ve learned a

[Nick McGowan]: lot through the years and years to go what do i really want to deal with how much

[Nick McGowan]: aggravation do i want to deal with what do i want this thing to be and i think

[Nick McGowan]: understanding like where you align and what this thing is about even how we first

[Nick McGowan]: connected ah i told you i didn’t mean to come off just like i’m deflecting but

[Nick McGowan]: there’s a purpose to what we’re doing and there’s an aligned purpose to it and i

[Nick McGowan]: think when you’re clear on that you can then go huh what don’t i want

[Nick McGowan]: what do i want and how do i want to go about this

[Nick McGowan]: some of that still trial on error even as you go like you’re learning you know

[Nick McGowan]: like you try different things and you’re like that sucked but we learned this and

[Nick McGowan]: if you didn’t do that thing something else would have sucked and you wouldn’t

[Nick McGowan]: have learned that so you have to kind of go through that stuff to be able to

[Nick McGowan]: understand and learn what you want what you don’t want i think one of the biggest

[Nick McGowan]: things that a lot of people have problems with is themselves

[Nick McGowan]: they look at all the shit outside like even when you’re saying im wanna be able

[Nick McGowan]: to get to the top of that mountain i know people that have reached the top of the

[Nick McGowan]: mountain and they’ve been fuck depressed because they’re like i did everything i

[Nick McGowan]: could to get to the top of this mountain now we just want to jump off it

[Nick McGowan]: and there are other

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: people that will hit different mountain tops and they go all right well this is

[Nick McGowan]: great now i can help others or i can do other things but you’ve got to experience

[Nick McGowan]: that as you go and that’s why i’ve touched on balance a couple times because i

[Nick McGowan]: think it really

[Matt Cavanaugh]: eight

[Nick McGowan]: boils down to you you know like if you’re in that spot where you’re like i wanna

[Nick McGowan]: do all this i’m gonna get after this thing and you can get to a flow state where

[Nick McGowan]: next to you know it’s twelve thirty at night and you’re on a

[Matt Cavanaugh]: walk

[Nick McGowan]: call with somebody and you’re still rocking and rolling that’s a beautiful thing

[Nick McGowan]: but when you’re grinding yourself to the bone then you’re just literally working

[Nick McGowan]: the machine under the ground without maintaining it and making sure that it’s

[Nick McGowan]: oiled and good to go because there’s certain times you need to get oil go have a

[Nick McGowan]: couple drinks not promoting alcohol but you know what i mean like go out and let

[Nick McGowan]: loose be free

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: sometimes you gotta deal with some of that and honestly ma’am

[Nick McGowan]: i actually really appreciate being able to get into the conversation with people

[Nick McGowan]: i call them beer conversations because if i can get a conversation with somebody

[Nick McGowan]: we’re having drinks and they go look if you can help me with this i’m in that

[Nick McGowan]: shit’s not gonna come from a normal like boardroom meeting or some

[Matt Cavanaugh]: no

[Nick McGowan]: zoom call where we’re trying to discover all the that you’re trying to figure out

[Nick McGowan]: there’s depth to that and being able to open up and show some of that underbelly

[Nick McGowan]: so showing some of your under belly here you’ve been doing this for a couple

[Nick McGowan]: years now

[Nick McGowan]: think about somebody who’s just about to start maybe a

[Matt Cavanaugh]: so

[Nick McGowan]: buddy or two friends that are sitting there going you know we like hockey and we

[Nick McGowan]: like lacrosse what do we do what sort of advice would you give them not

[Nick McGowan]: specifically business but for their minds for their mindsets

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yeah i would say you know literally just attack it with every resource you

[Matt Cavanaugh]: possibly have nothing’s off the table go use every resource that you have at your

[Matt Cavanaugh]: disposal be as hungry and untamed is possible like you’ll learn how to like tame

[Matt Cavanaugh]: the beast and kind of like crowd it in and you know become like focused on like a

[Matt Cavanaugh]: really like straight line but like in the beginning just like just go after it

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you know think as hard as you possibly can you just do everything

[Matt Cavanaugh]: at a hundred ninety percent you know in especially in the beginning you know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: that’s not sustainable to to do that for forever like you said like you’re gonna

[Matt Cavanaugh]: bear yourself right into the ground like you know it’s just not realistic but in

[Matt Cavanaugh]: the beginning especially you got like just attack it hard and then get that early

[Matt Cavanaugh]: because no when you’re starting out you’re on your own you know what i mean it’s

[Matt Cavanaugh]: not like it’s not like you’re going to work for someone and like you show up and

[Matt Cavanaugh]: like they’re really like holding you through the whole process like no you’re on

[Matt Cavanaugh]: your own now so and i if this doesn’t work you know you’re for you’re gonna have

[Matt Cavanaugh]: wasted a lot of time possibly a lot of money whatever you’ll have a good learning

[Matt Cavanaugh]: experience behind that for sure no matter what happens you’re going to learn a

[Matt Cavanaugh]: lot but um you obviously want more than that just to learn you everyone

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Matt Cavanaugh]: wants to create something successful so i would say in the beginning you know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: just literally attack it as hard as you possibly can

[Matt Cavanaugh]: um don’t give up and those are really and think really hard about you know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: everything that’s going on like put focus units towards it is what i like to say

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you can spend a lot of time at something but like if your focus units aren’t

[Matt Cavanaugh]: there you know what should have taken four hours could take you eight hours right

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Matt Cavanaugh]: um

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and and yet that’s really

[Matt Cavanaugh]: my main main thing to anyone who’s who’s starting out and then as you go along

[Matt Cavanaugh]: like i said you know you tame it in um you maintain the balance um you know l

[Matt Cavanaugh]: another thing that i never talked about that has helped me a lot is you know i’ve

[Matt Cavanaugh]: always loved to work out you know i mean if i’m working out every day like i can

[Matt Cavanaugh]: i can keep i don’t know i’m not getting bored of

[Matt Cavanaugh]: working on how i can just keep going and then you know you take those nights off

[Matt Cavanaugh]: go

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt Cavanaugh]: have a great time every time i go out now i have an absolute blast you know what

[Matt Cavanaugh]: i mean i’m not sitting there like oh like you know this

[Nick McGowan]: see

[Matt Cavanaugh]: sucks like when i go out you know it’s a good group of guys that we’re going with

[Matt Cavanaugh]: good group of girls um and you know we’re going out we’re having a great time

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you know that that’s really what it’s all about you know just doing your thing

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and then you know i mean there’s it’s all it’s all it’s all up here you know

[Nick McGowan]: yep

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and and then the body are natural state

[Nick McGowan]: yeah man i had i had a guessed on recently that set a shortened version of what

[Nick McGowan]: you were talking about and i think this might be something you might be able to

[Nick McGowan]: take along with you but fail fast

[Nick McGowan]: being able to fail fast and just quickly just fuck up just keep walking up just

[Nick McGowan]: fuck up figure it out but if you don’t mess it up and you don’t do anything about

[Nick McGowan]: it then you won’t ever get past that where even in those focus units of being

[Nick McGowan]: able to say are i going to block out time to be able to do these things and kind

[Nick McGowan]: of burn the boats in a sense to make sure that you have to sit there and kind of

[Nick McGowan]: do that stuff you’re able to fail over and over and over and work through that

[Nick McGowan]: and especially if you’ve got somebody else you’re working with so you got a a

[Nick McGowan]: cool little recipe going where you have accountability with your partner you guys

[Nick McGowan]: are fired up and you’re working through stuff but the fact that you understand

[Nick McGowan]: that your mindset is a crucial portion of this is something that i think a lot of

[Nick McGowan]: people that in their twenty seconds

[Matt Cavanaugh]: christmas

[Nick McGowan]: or even people that are just starting a brand new business that doesn’t matter if

[Nick McGowan]: you’re in your sixties or seventies if you’ve worked for somebody else forever

[Nick McGowan]: you start your own company they’re you’re gonna learn that you just wouldn’t have

[Nick McGowan]: known going into it and i know there are certain people that are the thinkers of

[Nick McGowan]: the world would they think about all these things you know let me just think

[Nick McGowan]: about it let me just brainstorm it and then put it down on paper then there

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you

[Nick McGowan]: are other people that are like that your paper move and they’re moving along i

[Nick McGowan]: think there’s a bit of a balance to it so it’s great to hear that you’re working

[Nick McGowan]: through what that balance looks like because it looks different for everybody

[Nick McGowan]: else

[Nick McGowan]: man i appreciate you being on i appreciate you being open and honest and talking

[Nick McGowan]: through this stuff i’m excited to hear how the company continues to grow keep me

[Nick McGowan]: in a loop it would be awesome to hear that at some point you are a billion dollar

[Nick McGowan]: company and i of course want to know how the summer goes but i also got to hear

[Nick McGowan]: in a couple weeks

[Matt Cavanaugh]: pretty good

[Nick McGowan]: what happens with your leg there so as we wrap things up where can people find

[Nick McGowan]: you with where can they connect with you

[Matt Cavanaugh]: uh yeah so you know professionally obviously linkedin that’s where you know we’re

[Matt Cavanaugh]: posting all of our company updates new hires everything of that sort um you know

[Matt Cavanaugh]: so i think if you just search my name matthew kava it’ll come up on there my

[Matt Cavanaugh]: linkin my instagram mac cav eighty four

[Matt Cavanaugh]: um that’s more like personal but you know give me a file on there as well

[Matt Cavanaugh]: incorporate the company into that as well and um

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and yeah you know i’ll be around more and more you know i want to get into i want

[Matt Cavanaugh]: to get all social media heavy eventually

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Matt Cavanaugh]: um but you know i think first in order for you to really grow on those you gotta

[Matt Cavanaugh]: you gotta do something so I’m making this app successful and then I want to be

[Matt Cavanaugh]: present more on social media but LinkedIn Instagram give me a follow

[Matt Cavanaugh]: Linkedin’s just my name Instagram mac cav eighty-four

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and yeah gab bus thank you very much nick for having me on really appreciate it

[Matt Cavanaugh]: and

[Matt Cavanaugh]: yeah god bless stay go

[Nick McGowan]: been a pleasure man thank you

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