The Character Builder Of A One Two Punch – Ep.016 – Stacey Jenkins

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Episode summary:​ Stacey and I discuss how she grew through a one-two punch of being diagnosed with cancer then, less than 24 hours later, losing her father, and much more…

Guest Name & Bio: Stacey Jenkins is a technical Director and IT Agile practitioner with 15+ years of experience specializing in Web Development, Systems Implementations and Data Integrations, Product Management, and Project Management in the Digital Media space.

Stacey Jenkins

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[Nick McGowan]: Hello, Stacey. Welcome to the show. I’m so glad you’re here. How are you doing?

[Stacey Jenkins]: I’m good thanks for having me nick I was excited uh to have you ask me to join you on this

[Nick McGowan]: Absolutely you. You were one of the people that I thought like man. who could

[Nick McGowan]: I have on this show? As I was sitting around thinking about like I’m going to

[Nick McGowan]: do this thing. Well who’s in my war market? You know, like who are of my

[Nick McGowan]: friends what I want to talk to, and have these sort of conversations. There

[Nick McGowan]: are some friends I went through. I was like,

[Nick McGowan]: Oh my God, though, and others I’m like. I wonder if they could you know, but

[Nick McGowan]: you were one of those people. I was like Man. she has so much to say, but I

[Nick McGowan]: can imagine this. would. probably you know. Uh, be a great lesson for her to

[Nick McGowan]: be able to get in front and talk about some of this stuff And I appreciate

[Nick McGowan]: that you’re open to do this. so

[Stacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: thank you for being here.

[Stacey Jenkins]: alright thanks for asking me

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, so why don’t we start things off? Uh, why don’t you tell us what you do

[Nick McGowan]: for a living, and one thing that most people don’t know about you?

[Stacey Jenkins]: um okay so what do i do for a living um i am a a tech leader at media lab three d

[Stacey Jenkins]: solutions

[Stacey Jenkins]: so i i lead technology teams and it’s different every day

[Stacey Jenkins]: and then what was the second part

[Nick McGowan]: One thing that most people don’t know about you?

[Stacey Jenkins]: most people don’t know about me that’s such a hard question to answer because

[Stacey Jenkins]: through the years my circle has gotten smaller and so like the people like

[Stacey Jenkins]: there’s a million people who don’t know anything about me the people who i’m who

[Stacey Jenkins]: i hold in my circle know a lot about me but

[Stacey Jenkins]: what would be something that’s interesting um

[Stacey Jenkins]: i play i play in a sax quartet i play the barry sacks in the sax quartet

[Nick McGowan]: That is an interesting fact. Isn’t it so cool when you’ talk to somebody and

[Nick McGowan]: you’re like, Oh, you’re a musician, too. It’s like being part of a secret

[Stacey Jenkins]: yeah yeah i remember you and i having that conversation at at some trip that we

[Nick McGowan]: club? you’re like, Oh my god.

[Stacey Jenkins]: took

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, I think it was a Vegas trip.

[Stacey Jenkins]: i think so

[Nick McGowan]: Doesn’t sound as fun as uh, as I just said when somebody says the old Vegas

[Nick McGowan]: trip. Think we’re there for business and

[Stacey Jenkins]: it was

[Nick McGowan]: I think I did like forty miles of walking in three days and I forgot my damn

[Nick McGowan]: jacket.

[Stacey Jenkins]: yeah it’s like yeah by the by the end of the day you’re too exhausted to like go

[Stacey Jenkins]: out and have fun necessarily cause you’re you’re doing the business thing

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, but that was a great conversation. You and I sat down at the bar and we

[Nick McGowan]: were like Damn, what a day. So who are you cause

[Stacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: I think I would just gotten of a company like I don’t know six months before

[Nick McGowan]: that something like that.

[Stacey Jenkins]: yeah yeah it was a good time i i appreciate the time we got to sit and get to

[Stacey Jenkins]: know each other a little bit better

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, so tell us a little bit. how did you get into technology? Because when

[Nick McGowan]: you said that you work within technology, I know what that means. But can you

[Nick McGowan]: give us a little bit because we work in some really geeky cool things,

[Stacey Jenkins]: so so ask ask me that in in a different way do you want me to tell you about like

[Stacey Jenkins]: so you want me to tell you how i got into it or how i got us into things that

[Stacey Jenkins]: we’re doing now at our job

[Nick McGowan]: so a little bit of both, tell

[Stacey Jenkins]: okay

[Nick McGowan]: us, uh, how you got into technology and what led you to where you’re at now?

[Stacey Jenkins]: okay

[Stacey Jenkins]: i um

[Stacey Jenkins]: i actually didn’ intend to be in computers i i

[Nick McGowan]: Hm,

[Stacey Jenkins]: was always um

[Stacey Jenkins]: like an engineering geek and always liked putting things together when i was

[Stacey Jenkins]: little

[Stacey Jenkins]: so i actually went to school for mechanical engineering and

[Stacey Jenkins]: i don’t know what happened i don’t know i can’t even remember what it was that

[Stacey Jenkins]: made me have this fear come upon me but all of a sudden i got afraid that i was

[Stacey Jenkins]: going to spend the rest of my life building bridges now i know that’s not what

[Stacey Jenkins]: mechanical engineering is and i’m sure that i would have like really enjoyed it

[Stacey Jenkins]: but um i i was like i don’t want to build bridges so i look to see what

[Stacey Jenkins]: you know what my college courses would easily transfer over into and

[Nick McGowan]: Hm.

[Stacey Jenkins]: i discovered computer science

[Stacey Jenkins]: and i remembered actually i i don’t know if you can see it in the background

[Stacey Jenkins]: there if it’s lit up but

[Stacey Jenkins]: i taught myself how to program in the third grade on an old atari well it wasn’t

[Nick McGowan]: it’s super dark. Yeah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: old at the time it’s old now um but but anyway when i was like when i was

[Stacey Jenkins]: deciding that i didn’t want to build bridges i was like oh yeah that computer

[Stacey Jenkins]: thing i think there might be something with that

[Stsacey Jenkins]: so my uh my college credits all transferred over and i just switched over to

[Stsacey Jenkins]: computer science and the rest is history

[Nick McGowan]: that is fantastic. Um, I have no idea why your camera just cut out for a

[Nick McGowan]: minute

[Stsacey Jenkins]: can you still see

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Stsacey Jenkins]: me

[Nick McGowan]: well, you completely cut out for a couple of seconds. Audio video. All of

[Nick McGowan]: that, I

[Nick McGowan]: don’t know why I cut out. Yeah, um, however, I think this is a good chance for

[Stsacey Jenkins]: oh it did all of it

[Nick McGowan]: us to start it over and a little bit of a dry run in the beginning.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: okay

[Nick McGowan]: Cool.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: am i okay now

[Stsacey Jenkins]: am i okay now

[Nick McGowan]: so yeah, you’re totally good. That was weird that it just cut out like it. You

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah i’m even on

[Nick McGowan]: literally disappeared and it showed that I was the only one in here.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: oh weird um no i’m

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i’m looking at my network and i’m making sure i am connected

[Stsacey Jenkins]: to

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah my hot spot i should be good

[Nick McGowan]: all right, Cool. And and if it looks grainy on your end if I look rainy or

[Nick McGowan]: whatever, that’s totally fine

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: because again, it’s automatically uh, taking care of your video separately and

[Nick McGowan]: mine

[Stsacey Jenkins]: okay

[Nick McGowan]: separately. Um, but yeah, that was weird that to cut out. so um,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: okay cool well let me know where you want to start over

[Nick McGowan]: I’ll just start over with that. Uh, with that question of, tell us how

[Nick McGowan]: basically the journey of like how you got into tech. then then what you’re

[Nick McGowan]: doing now and just leave some room in there if you want and we can have

[Nick McGowan]: conversation or we can move along after that.

[Nick McGowan]: So three two

[Nick McGowan]: one, so let’s take a little bit of a step back. Let’s uh, tell us a bit about

[Nick McGowan]: like where you came from and what got you into technology today?

[Stsacey Jenkins]: um as a kid i was always interested in figuring out how things work and taking

[Stsacey Jenkins]: things apart figuring out

[Nick McGowan]: Okay,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: how to put ’em back together

[Nick McGowan]: were you

[Stsacey Jenkins]: if my parents got

[Nick McGowan]: ever good at putting them back together cause? I could take shit apart, but I

[Nick McGowan]: couldn’t figure out how to put all the back together. like there’s a t. V

[Nick McGowan]: and it’s in pieces and I found a tube.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i think i was smart enough to not take things like fully apart like i would take

[Stsacey Jenkins]: like the atari controller apart and figure it out and like test

[Nick McGowan]: Okay.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: and like put it back together um but yeah like if my parents bought something

[Stsacey Jenkins]: they would just toss it to me like the ikea beef it was pre akea but they toss me

[Stsacey Jenkins]: the um

[Stsacey Jenkins]: the uh instructions and i’d put it together for them so they they kind of really

[Stsacey Jenkins]: supported me in going into engineering um

[Nick McGowan]: Hm,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: so i really got a good push from my parents in that regard

[Nick McGowan]: Now were

[Stsacey Jenkins]: but then i so

[Nick McGowan]: they engineers?

[Stsacey Jenkins]: no nope um my mom was in office uh office manager and my dad worked in um steel

[Stsacey Jenkins]: like the steel industry he works for the u s can company in the midwest

[Nick McGowan]: Hm,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: um

[Stsacey Jenkins]: and uh

[Stsacey Jenkins]: very smart both very smart but um but no they were not into technology

[Nick McGowan]: All right, So there you are taking things apart like the Atari controller, And

[Nick McGowan]: you know there

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yep

[Nick McGowan]: there are certain kids that go the. I’m going to take animals apart and do

[Nick McGowan]: other things and they go down a weird sociopath. At least you went down like.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah no no no

[Nick McGowan]: uh,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: at least mine ru machines

[Nick McGowan]: you went down a different peth. Yeah, exactly

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah thankfully

[Stsacey Jenkins]: thankfully yeah no and then you know like i went through school and

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i uh i i went into engineering school in college uh into

[Nick McGowan]: H.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: mechanical engineering and um part way through my college career i can’t remember

[Stsacey Jenkins]: the instance or why but something had convinced me that as a mechanical engineer

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i would be building bridges for the rest of my life and i did not want to do that

[Nick McGowan]: Is that all

[Stsacey Jenkins]: so um

[Nick McGowan]: they do?

[Stsacey Jenkins]: no

[Nick McGowan]: just build bridges?

[Stsacey Jenkins]: well obviously not i don’t know why i thought that i don’t know why i thought so

[Stsacey Jenkins]: to all the mechanical engineers out there i apologize that i minimized the work

[Stsacey Jenkins]: the most you know the important work that’s out there and i just thought it was a

[Stsacey Jenkins]: lot of bridge building so um i look to see kind of just fell into computers i

[Stsacey Jenkins]: looked to see what uh what my college credits would transfer easily over into

[Stsacey Jenkins]: and it was computer science

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah i remembered that i programmed uh on a atari when i was in third grade and

[Nick McGowan]: Hm.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: kind of self taught myself some of that stuff so i remembered that i said we’ll

[Stsacey Jenkins]: give this we’ll see if this computer thing sticks we tried that out and here i am

[Stsacey Jenkins]: a couple decades later

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, that’s uh. It’s crazy to see like children’s toys. Now that are these

[Nick McGowan]: little place school looking toys that are like Co, a friend or something,

[Nick McGowan]: where they are learning how to code and they’ like putting these things

[Nick McGowan]: together, But there you were butchering youratori.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yep yeah i was it was bef

[Nick McGowan]: Figuring out what do I doing encoding on it?

[Stsacey Jenkins]: before girls who code and before before

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: a

[Stsacey Jenkins]: gender non specific toys i guess i was i was taking apart the atari and do you

[Stsacey Jenkins]: remember those he we’re a little bit different in age but i don’t know when you

[Stsacey Jenkins]: were a kid did they have the scholastic book fairs or was it post that

[Nick McGowan]: oh yeah. Oh,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: okay

[Nick McGowan]: my God, we used to live for that.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: those are my jam um

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: that’s where i bought some coding books

[Nick McGowan]: pizza hot points. You remember all the pizza Hu points?

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah yeah yeah yeah

[Stsacey Jenkins]: oh man yeah so i

[Nick McGowan]: so much terrible pizza

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i bought i bought some books that were like computer programming games and i’d

[Stsacey Jenkins]: sit there at the ati and just like type them in and

[Stsacey Jenkins]: that’s how i started

[Nick McGowan]: man. that’s so cool. so

[Nick McGowan]: growing up through that. Um, what was that like for you Because I know it’s

[Nick McGowan]: got to be kind of tough in different ways. You’ a leader in our company now,

[Nick McGowan]: and you’re one of a handful of women, which is fantastic, but that’s

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yes

[Nick McGowan]: not the norm. So what was that like? Kind of growing up and being that kid

[Nick McGowan]: playing on the computers and then getting into computer science and all,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah i think honestly for me it was it didn’t seem i was always a tomboy growing

[Stsacey Jenkins]: up and i was always

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i always kind of was like that nerdy outsider didn’t fit in type person and i

[Stsacey Jenkins]: mean like all kids i wanted to fit in but i also was really supported by my

[Stsacey Jenkins]: parents in terms of engineering and exploring these kind of things and

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i mean this was

[Stsacey Jenkins]: back in the eighties and my mom would let me buy boy clothes and and you know go

[Stsacey Jenkins]: through all that and that was before you know kind of the woke period that we’re

[Stsacey Jenkins]: in now so i never really felt too

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i didn’t i didn’t really notice i didn’t know

[Stsacey Jenkins]: that i was

[Stsacey Jenkins]: a girl in tech or like a girl in engineering i just like hung out with my guy

[Nick McGowan]: H. mhm,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: friends and i played with hot wheels and robotics and i just did it and and my

[Stsacey Jenkins]: parents didn’t tell me you know i wasn’t i wasn’t wiser otherwise for for

[Stsacey Jenkins]: for being different

[Stsacey Jenkins]: it wasn’t really until like the professional world that i started to really see

[Stsacey Jenkins]: that there was a difference

[Nick McGowan]: hm, Hm,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i mean even in college

[Nick McGowan]: that’ so huge are your

[Nick McGowan]: parents’ so huge your parents. You know you,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: what’s up

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: you hear different kids that are raised a certain way where they’re doing

[Nick McGowan]: something that they love their Dad might say to them like boys don’t do that,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: right

[Nick McGowan]: or you know the the mom might say. Oh honey, you should. really. you should do

[Nick McGowan]: this because you’re not going to make money with this thing. Oh

[Stsacey Jenkins]: right

[Nick McGowan]: honey, you should really do something else. And the fact that your parents are

[Nick McGowan]: just like, What do you want to do? All right cool,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: get up. You’re not

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yes

[Nick McGowan]: going to take apart animals? Fantastic, then whatever you want to do,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah i i i was really lucky in their support of me and there was nothing there

[Stsacey Jenkins]: was never anything like you know gendered about

[Stsacey Jenkins]: what my parents you know supported me in don’t get

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: me wrong my mom wanted me to wear churches to dress i mean wear dresses to church

[Stsacey Jenkins]: but um but other than that in terms of like what i was interested in what i went

[Stsacey Jenkins]: after i was really supported and i’m sure my you know my dad was really proud of

[Stsacey Jenkins]: me too and i must say though i think you know

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i think it’s probably

[Stsacey Jenkins]: harder in the reverse if we if we’re talking about gender you know for

[Nick McGowan]: H.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: for me to take on

[Nick McGowan]: Yep, just pick it up for you to take

[Stsacey Jenkins]: let me try different network

[Stsacey Jenkins]: can you hear emmett are you there

[Nick McGowan]: Yp.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i know what it is i’m on the vpn at work hold on

[Nick McGowan]: got.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: damn it

[Stsacey Jenkins]: all right that should be better

[Nick McGowan]: Oh wow.

[Nick McGowan]: yeah,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: is it better

[Nick McGowan]: that even cleaned up your video

[Stsacey Jenkins]: oh it did

[Nick McGowan]: like Imensely.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: shoot we have to start this whole thing over okay

[Nick McGowan]: Unless I spoke soon.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: all right

[Stsacey Jenkins]: how’s that

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, you’re good

[Stsacey Jenkins]: okay

[Stsacey Jenkins]: sorry about that

[Nick McGowan]: noies,

[Nick McGowan]: So you were talking about how it would uh, potentially be harder and reverse

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah you were saying that you know how fortunate i was to have my parents support

[Stsacey Jenkins]: me and some

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: of these you know more

[Stsacey Jenkins]: masculine gendered type things that i was into as a kid uh

[Stsacey Jenkins]: and it really did allow me to explore what i wanted to do and become

[Stsacey Jenkins]: as i went into adulthood

[Stsacey Jenkins]: and i was lucky but i think you know if it was in reverse and i was

[Stsacey Jenkins]: uh a little boy and wanted to do something more feminine i don’t know that i

[Stsacey Jenkins]: think that that was probably a harder cell back then in the

[Nick McGowan]: Hm.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: seventy seconds and ‘eighty seconds so yes we can tell my parent

[Nick McGowan]: Sure,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: you know we can say that

[Stsacey Jenkins]: my parents were great and they were

[Stsacey Jenkins]: um but yeah they supported me in these more engineering kind of kind of interests

[Nick McGowan]: yeah, I think the overall of them, Um, just trying to support in. Anyway,

[Nick McGowan]: you’re right. It might have been a little bit more weird with uh, a little boy

[Nick McGowan]: in the seventies or eighties wearing dress or something like that than if

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: you had some boy jeans on and you’ out playing in the dirt. Like whatever, I

[Nick McGowan]: could

[Stsacey Jenkins]: right

[Nick McGowan]: imagine that could be a bit different. But the fact that your parents were

[Nick McGowan]: just open to things and not trying to just literally brainwash you. Uh, I

[Nick McGowan]: don’t have kids, so I could imagine that’s got to be difficult when you’re

[Nick McGowan]: like. Well, I know these things, or at least you believe that you know certain

[Nick McGowan]: things and you’re like All right

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: kid. Do it this way, Ty, little kids.

[Nick McGowan]: anything you’re here, you’re supposed to love me. so tell me what to do and

[Nick McGowan]: they just sponge it up. and the fact that you’re able to sponge up where your

[Nick McGowan]: parents were, just ▁ultimately, loving on you and being open and supportive.

[Nick McGowan]: Um, no matter what you were doing, it’s kind of a big thing, because again,

[Nick McGowan]: I’ve heard

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: of so many different people and I’ve been in different spots. I love my

[Nick McGowan]: parents. Um, I’ve been in different spots. We’ like nowy. You want to go do

[Nick McGowan]: this. You want to do that and I appreciate that they care to be able to talk

[Nick McGowan]: about those things. There’s certain things that I can tell behind that or I’m

[Nick McGowan]: like you don’t fully understand it, you

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: know, And the fact that your parents were probably there too, and they’re

[Nick McGowan]: like. We fully don’t understand where you’re going, But we at least know we’re

[Nick McGowan]: going to love and support you is much better and much different than somebody

[Nick McGowan]: with just shitty parents. They’re like fucky

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: kid. Didn’t want you. anyway. We had a party one night and a year later. Who

[Nick McGowan]: to do? you know?

[Stsacey Jenkins]: it’s

[Nick McGowan]: that’s way different.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i was i’m like it’s not a year it’s it’s nine months now

[Nick McGowan]: I’m actually making a making a sort of inside joke. Um,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: it’s teason

[Nick McGowan]: so uh, that’s a thank you for calling me on it. It’s a total nod to my

[Nick McGowan]: parents. Um, they had a. They were at a party one night and then about a year

[Nick McGowan]: later my dad found out. Hey, you got a three month old. So uh, that sort of

[Nick McGowan]: stuff

[Stsacey Jenkins]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: happens. I get the Anon anatomy of it all. I understand that. I mean again, I

[Nick McGowan]: was about three months old.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: Um, but and you know, in that spot if it’s not a planned child, I’d imagine

[Nick McGowan]: it’s a bit different, but maybe it’s

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: not. I think it really boils down to the parents and where the people are and

[Nick McGowan]: where they’re at. I’m thirty seven years old. I don’t have plans to have

[Nick McGowan]: children any time in the very near future, But at some point I’d like to have

[Nick McGowan]: kids and I could. I could totally understand that I would be a way different

[Nick McGowan]: parent in my forties, and if I was in my twenties,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah yeah

[Nick McGowan]: because the amount of shit and craziness that I’ve gone through and learned

[Nick McGowan]: and all of that where I’d imagine it’s got to be tough. So the fact that you

[Nick McGowan]: had parents that were just loving and supportive, Um and open to that sort of

[Nick McGowan]: stuff is is huge, Um, it’s it’s kind of easy for us. not just people that have

[Nick McGowan]: kids, but just people in general. If you believe something you, you go well, I

[Nick McGowan]: believe it, and I don’t think I’m an idiot. So it must be true, and you kind

[Nick McGowan]: of force that you know when you think of where you’re at, even running the

[Nick McGowan]: technology side of the business and the different conversations you have and

[Nick McGowan]: the personality types that you have to work with you are the boss. You are the

[Nick McGowan]: one the buck stops with, but you’ve never been one of those people that is

[Nick McGowan]: like That’s cool. I don’t care what you have to say. We’re going to do this

[Nick McGowan]: and I wonder does that come from your parents? Was that something you think

[Nick McGowan]: innately kind of came from, or was it like it kind of flourished out of you,

[Nick McGowan]: kind of stepping out of your shell as you grew up?

[Stsacey Jenkins]: thank you i feel like that was a compliment on my leadership style i will say

[Stsacey Jenkins]: there have been a few times where i’ve said this is what we’re going to do but i

[Nick McGowan]: Absolutely? yeah,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: probably qualified it by saying i don’t normally do this but this is what we’re

[Nick McGowan]: one hundred percent. Yep, you’re like. I feel uncomfortable, but I’m putting

[Stsacey Jenkins]: going to do

[Nick McGowan]: my foot down. It’s like she’s all right. I hope.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: sorry guys this is the way we’re going

[Stsacey Jenkins]: you know

[Stsacey Jenkins]: being a leader was never my goal that was never something

[Nick McGowan]: Hm.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: that i set out to do on purpose

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i have always

[Stsacey Jenkins]: just followed what stimulates me intellectually

[Stsacey Jenkins]: and i have

[Stsacey Jenkins]: found that i guess i would call myself like a reluctant leader

[Stsacey Jenkins]: if that makes sense

[Nick McGowan]: okay,

[Nick McGowan]: yep,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i

[Stsacey Jenkins]: the you know like if there’s somebody leading the charge and we’re we’re we’re

[Stsacey Jenkins]: riffing we’re doing great like i’m gonna follow you all the way i am gonna follow

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: you i’m gonna support it um

[Stsacey Jenkins]: but if there is a lap if there’s a hole there if there’s something missing

[Stsacey Jenkins]: then then i’m a reluctant leader in the fact that

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i will step up and i will try to fill that gap and try to bring everybody

[Stsacey Jenkins]: together

[Stsacey Jenkins]: to you know and be a leader in that way i always think of there’s like this comic

[Stsacey Jenkins]: of

[Stsacey Jenkins]: a wolf pack and it’ll be like is the leader in the front or the leader in the

[Stsacey Jenkins]: back and i always strive to be the leader in the back um the one who’s

[Stsacey Jenkins]: what’s another way to say it

[Stsacey Jenkins]: like laying the groove i think of like a base

[Nick McGowan]: Hm,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: barry saxon a sax quartet you know you’re

[Nick McGowan]: yeah,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: just kind of like laying the groove you know and if if it’s starting to slow down

[Stsacey Jenkins]: a little bit you kind of lay those notes down a little bit quicker to get people

[Stsacey Jenkins]: to catch up

[Nick McGowan]: yeah,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: but um everybody’s doing it together it’s not about it’s not ego driven it’s kind

[Stsacey Jenkins]: of that like leading from behind

[Stsacey Jenkins]: and

[Stsacey Jenkins]: making sure that the way is clear for everybody

[Nick McGowan]: H. No, I would assume you weren’t always like that and you are a four year old

[Nick McGowan]: and you’re like Hm. I can tell there’s no leader here. It’s time for me to

[Nick McGowan]: step up and say something. So where

[Stsacey Jenkins]: no

[Nick McGowan]: do you think that came from?

[Stsacey Jenkins]: gosh

[Stsacey Jenkins]: where should that come from

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i was a i i call myself a recovering people pleaser

[Stsacey Jenkins]: um i think growing up my parents you know we we were talking about my parents

[Stsacey Jenkins]: being supportive of my engineering which i didn’t even know was engineering at

[Stsacey Jenkins]: the time but kind of just those like technical interests um

[Stsacey Jenkins]: but there’s also very much a heavy people pleaser all the way through college so

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i think become

[Stsacey Jenkins]: what comes with being a people pleaser is being a joiner i’m still a joiner

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i want to be involved i i like to experience new things just for the experience

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: of it

[Stsacey Jenkins]: um

[Stsacey Jenkins]: but when i you know college was really went to three different high schools

[Stsacey Jenkins]: actually i hope that’s something that’s maybe interesting to know i went to three

[Stsacey Jenkins]: different high

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: schools so

[Nick McGowan]: wow,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i never really was like in one place for too long

[Stsacey Jenkins]: so i i you know it it taught me to come out of my shell

[Stsacey Jenkins]: but i would say it was all like through college even a a bit of a people pleaser

[Stsacey Jenkins]: but i had opportunities to take leadership positions um i was president on my

[Stsacey Jenkins]: sorority in college and then

[Nick McGowan]: hm.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i was also and

[Stsacey Jenkins]: like a women in mechanical engineering council that’s before i switched over to

[Stsacey Jenkins]: computers because it’s before the bridge the bridge gate

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, that’s a new. like No, No know, I could see the bridges coming. I got to

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yes

[Nick McGowan]: go,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: like no this isn’t for me

[Stsacey Jenkins]: no there was something that happened through college where

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i think like stepping out of my comfort zone and taking those positions because i

[Stsacey Jenkins]: was a joiner and because i wanted to please the people that asked me to take

[Stsacey Jenkins]: those positions

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: that that i got more comfortable with that kind of

[Stsacey Jenkins]: that kind of role or that kind of

[Nick McGowan]: H,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: posture where where people are looking at you you know and and waiting for you

[Stsacey Jenkins]: know you to lead them

[Stsacey Jenkins]: uh so i can’t think of like one specific thing but i i think it was probably my

[Stsacey Jenkins]: people leasing ways got me to join things that were out flat side of my comfort

[Stsacey Jenkins]: zone and then because they were leadership things i learned a bit along the way

[Stsacey Jenkins]: so

[Nick McGowan]: wow,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: in college i ended up taking some leadership courses because of being in those

[Stsacey Jenkins]: positions

[Stsacey Jenkins]: they were required

[Stsacey Jenkins]: and

[Nick McGowan]: Hm.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i ended up being a resident assistant in college as well so

[Stsacey Jenkins]: my last year in college i was trained on like conflict resolution and how to take

[Stsacey Jenkins]: care of your residents when you’re in ra in a college dorm so

[Nick McGowan]: Well,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i think you know a lot of that stuff happened there

[Nick McGowan]: yeah, the fact that you moved around and changed high schools three times

[Nick McGowan]: could potentially shake and disrupt and introvert Somebody who wants to just

[Nick McGowan]: be ▁quiet. And by themselves that could just make them go. Well, you know I

[Nick McGowan]: don’t have any time because God knows how long’ going to be here. I’m just

[Nick McGowan]: going to sit in my room and not do anything. So it’s interesting that you kind

[Nick McGowan]: of went that path where you were potentially like that. But because of the

[Nick McGowan]: engineering mind and trying to fix those problems, you’re like. What? Fuck?

[Nick McGowan]: it’s a problem. Right? What are going to

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: do? Who are you? What is this thing? Know, there are classes to learn about

[Nick McGowan]: this. Okay, and

[Stsacey Jenkins]: right

[Nick McGowan]: I, I see you still even doing that now. Um, there was something that we talked

[Nick McGowan]: about maybe a year or so ago and you were like, uh, oh, it was your scooter.

[Nick McGowan]: You were

[Stsacey Jenkins]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: like. Maybe that was two years ago. You were like, Wanted to

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: get a scooter, But I didn’t want to just buy one. I’m going to buy broken one

[Nick McGowan]: and I was like. Well, that’s silly. Why do you want to buy a broken one Like?

[Nick McGowan]: So I can fix it. You look at me like my question was silly and I was like, uh.

[Nick McGowan]: okay.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: this is happening nick i i’ve not had this problem before

[Nick McGowan]: it’s all good. My editing goes from six hours to thirty eight hours. Uh, I

[Nick McGowan]: will put it through production and I’ll charge you for it.

[Nick McGowan]: kidding.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: okay

[Stsacey Jenkins]: sorry

[Nick McGowan]: Just totally good. You’re good. Um. I, I think it’s all on the same recording

[Nick McGowan]: so we should be fine. Um, but that’s

[Stsacey Jenkins]: okay

[Nick McGowan]: a me problem. Worst case scenario, I go. this is all screwed up and we got to

[Nick McGowan]: start it over again, but no big deal.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: okay

[Nick McGowan]: Um,

[Nick McGowan]: so where were we?

[Stsacey Jenkins]: hold on let me i’m getting

[Stsacey Jenkins]: work notifications let me put myself i do not disturb

[Stsacey Jenkins]: okay

[Stsacey Jenkins]: you were riffing with me about uh telling you i wanted to buy a broken scooter

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, Well, the fact that you were like, I’m going to buy a broken scooter and

[Nick McGowan]: I was like. Well, that’s silly and you looked at me weird. I remember feeling

[Nick McGowan]: like. Wh. Well, you just hope you’re going to buy a broken scooter. Why why

[Nick McGowan]: are you making me feel this way and that makes total sense. Uh, our brains are

[Nick McGowan]: different. I don’t look to like. Instantly try to fix those things like that.

[Nick McGowan]: I go. Well, what’s I? I need this thing for this purpose, So the quickest way

[Nick McGowan]: to do that is by one that’s operational. Get my ass on it. Move along. but

[Nick McGowan]: that you just wanted to step in and do that. I, I think that’s uh. It’s kind

[Nick McGowan]: of a nod to the creativity that you bring to where you go. Huh, I need to

[Nick McGowan]: understand how to use this thing and I want to be able to actually understand

[Nick McGowan]: every ounce of it. So on the tech side of the world, Uh, you started with an

[Nick McGowan]: Atari and now you play in the world of a R and V R.

[Nick McGowan]: pixel streaming. We’ll get to at some point real

[Stsacey Jenkins]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: time rendering and all those things.

[Nick McGowan]: Um, So you’ve always been good at being able to have those conversations with

[Nick McGowan]: people, sort of at Leaison, between the tech side and the people side. Uh,

[Nick McGowan]: what sort of advice would you give to people that are trying to have those

[Nick McGowan]: conversations? Be it with people that they work with in their own company, or

[Nick McGowan]: just people that they work with in their own department?

[Stsacey Jenkins]: well if i was gonna talk to t if i’m talking to like

[Stsacey Jenkins]: technical people who are like slinging code all the time i you know and they they

[Stsacey Jenkins]: need to talk to their stakeholders or their business partners and the stuff i

[Stsacey Jenkins]: um

[Stsacey Jenkins]: we know so much and we know the details of so much like you push a button on a

[Stsacey Jenkins]: website and we know that it’s a certain number of pixels shifting on a screen

[Stsacey Jenkins]: that then cause an action in code to happen that then causes a message to go to

[Stsacey Jenkins]: the wi fi router that then connects to a domain name server and then flies up and

[Stsacey Jenkins]: downer space and then comes all the way back to somebody else’s computer and i

[Stsacey Jenkins]: don’t that’s not all true necessarily but it’s you know you can lose people

[Stsacey Jenkins]: really quickly if you throw in like all of the unnecessary details

[Stsacey Jenkins]: so as a technical person

[Stsacey Jenkins]: you know we have to know all those details to make this stuff work

[Stsacey Jenkins]: um

[Stsacey Jenkins]: oh we don’t need to know how the stuff goes to space to satellites and come back

[Stsacey Jenkins]: like somebody else figured that part out but i mean like you know we we have to

[Stsacey Jenkins]: we do have to know those things i talk i i compare it to like a syrup painting um

[Stsacey Jenkins]: poli ism

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: so the famous painting of i can’t even think of it right now of the people in the

[Stsacey Jenkins]: park um

[Stsacey Jenkins]: it is by sara george sat and

[Stsacey Jenkins]: it is pois so it’s like i i talk about you know you see an umbrella

[Stsacey Jenkins]: but on the technical side we see every dot that makes up that umbrella

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: and the black stem of that umbrella is probably not black it’s probably a mixture

[Stsacey Jenkins]: of green dots and purple dots and red dots and but but to the end person who

[Stsacey Jenkins]: doesn’t need to know all that stuff it’s an umbrella holder it’s an umbrella

[Stsacey Jenkins]: stick

[Stsacey Jenkins]: so

[Stsacey Jenkins]: you know you have to know your audience that you’re talking to um

[Stsacey Jenkins]: and but on the flips side of that i would say don’t talk down you know you don’t

[Stsacey Jenkins]: want to talk down to people because they may they may understand they may want to

[Stsacey Jenkins]: talk about

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm, Mhm,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: the dots so it’s kind of like this fine balance and i think you’ve seen me do it

[Stsacey Jenkins]: on calls with clients where

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: you know if you already understand this part just stop me you know we’ll go into

[Stsacey Jenkins]: this but it’s finding that balance of being able to read your audience and

[Stsacey Jenkins]: understand

[Stsacey Jenkins]: kind of kind of seeing if they understand what you’re talking about too and

[Stsacey Jenkins]: making sure you’re kind of constantly making decisions do i need to explain this

[Stsacey Jenkins]: more is this detail important or not well maybe it’s not for the goal of the

[Stsacey Jenkins]: conversation so you just move on

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know that process right there that we. I think you and I

[Nick McGowan]: are a little bit more fluid in because we do it almost all day long. Of like

[Nick McGowan]: Well, I’ve got to admit this. You need to know this thing. You may not need to

[Nick McGowan]: know this thing, but I should check in about this thing, and like all of that

[Nick McGowan]: within those conversations. I think a lot of people do that, Uh, kind of

[Nick McGowan]: subconsciously, but on more of a negative side.

[Nick McGowan]: No, and I. I understand that the way that you typically look at life is more

[Nick McGowan]: on the positive side and the optimistic side, and people that

[Stsacey Jenkins]: you try

[Nick McGowan]: will go through those situations. Yeah, because your process and the the

[Nick McGowan]: outlook and your overall mindset, et cetera, et cetera, Uh, with the people

[Nick McGowan]: that work through that process as well, and I think a lot of those shifts

[Nick McGowan]: where they go Well. Maybe I should admit this. Maybe I should admit that,

[Nick McGowan]: maybe I’m taking too long. I, I’m doing this. I’m doing that. I’m sure you’ve

[Nick McGowan]: had a couple of those moments over the course of time where you’re like that

[Nick McGowan]: was weird as hell, and I sound it awkward.

[Nick McGowan]: So what did you do in that point? Um, and do you have a moment that comes to

[Nick McGowan]: mind you were like, Oh, this was awkward as shits. and I remember learning

[Nick McGowan]: things from that.

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i think i’m always somewhat socially awkward so

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i i just like run with it

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i just kind of like

[Stsacey Jenkins]: radical self acceptance is something that i’ve learned through the years and so

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: um i’ll probably just do some self self deprecating humor and be like that was

[Stsacey Jenkins]: awkward i’m i’m socially awkward sorry about that or you know something i i was

[Stsacey Jenkins]: laughing because i was remembering

[Stsacey Jenkins]: being in a conversation with a new acquaintance that wasn’t even work related we

[Stsacey Jenkins]: were at a party

[Stsacey Jenkins]: and i just kept talking on and on and on and i could not find a way to close the

[Stsacey Jenkins]: conversation

[Stsacey Jenkins]: and my wife was watching this all go down real time and she felt awkward and i

[Stsacey Jenkins]: felt awkward and then this other person just like kind of walked away and at

[Stsacey Jenkins]: least i was able to look at my wife and i’m like that was bad that was really

[Stsacey Jenkins]: awkward so

[Stsacey Jenkins]: we were just gonna let that be what it is

[Nick McGowan]: yeah, there’s There’s a lot of power in just being able to laugh at yourself.

[Nick McGowan]: though, Because if you

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: realize something like that first off, have you realiz? You call it out, you

[Nick McGowan]: can then tell the character of other people be cause. there are some people

[Nick McGowan]: that will be like. Oh yeah, that was weird, but no good. you know, and

[Nick McGowan]: everythings move

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: along. Other people might just feel

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: weird. That’s usually a thing on their own where they like this

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: is a weirdnockward. I didn’t want to be here anyway,

[Nick McGowan]: but the

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: fact that you can laugh about it is huge. You know, you got to be able to

[Nick McGowan]: laugh about that. Talk to a little bit about the Uh. The radical acceptance,

[Nick McGowan]: though, where did that come from?

[Stsacey Jenkins]: that is something

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i think like early i’m trying to think of like age range so i can relate

[Stsacey Jenkins]: probably like fifteen to twenty years ago going back to that like kind of people

[Stsacey Jenkins]: pleasing mentality and

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: always trying to

[Stsacey Jenkins]: be the a student and and you know as an adult it doesn’t really work anymore um

[Stsacey Jenkins]: there’s uh i mean it can’ work there’s a whole world out there that wants to sell

[Stsacey Jenkins]: you things or wants to convince you that they have the answer

[Stsacey Jenkins]: um

[Stsacey Jenkins]: but

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i don’t believe that anybody has the answer um the only answer that is real or is

[Stsacey Jenkins]: true as the one that’s inside us

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: no i’m not saying like if you told me two plus two is five that i would agree

[Stsacey Jenkins]: with you but what i mean is finding the way in school it’s easy to find the way

[Stsacey Jenkins]: you got to answer these ten questions and do them right and especially for me in

[Stsacey Jenkins]: engineering it’s it’s discrete it’s like there’s a right or wrong answer it’s

[Stsacey Jenkins]: black or white so as you go into adulthood and start realizing you know the whole

[Stsacey Jenkins]: world’s not going to hand you a piece of paper with ten questions on it that you

[Stsacey Jenkins]: can perfectly answer and then you get an a you know that that’s not that’s not

[Stsacey Jenkins]: adulthood

[Stsacey Jenkins]: so i found myself

[Stsacey Jenkins]: that being the type of person who is always looking outside of me for approval

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i i think that’s you know that’s people pleasing

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i i think that’s you know that’s people pleasing

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: so

[Stsacey Jenkins]: start

[Stsacey Jenkins]: either

[Nick McGowan]: So people please him,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Stsacey Jenkins]: so i was talking about radical self acceptance

[Stsacey Jenkins]: somebody turned me onto a book i think there’s a book called radical self

[Stsacey Jenkins]: acceptance and it’s radical because it is kind of going in the face of what

[Stsacey Jenkins]: society

[Stsacey Jenkins]: um tells us

[Stsacey Jenkins]: we’re convinced by society or by every billboard we drive by or every ad that

[Stsacey Jenkins]: comes up on our whatever social media we’re scrolling through that there’s

[Stsacey Jenkins]: something we need out there outside external from us

[Stsacey Jenkins]: and so self acceptance can be really radical in that kind of environment

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i can look in an ad for

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i don’t know make up and it can be really radical to be like i don’t need that

[Stsacey Jenkins]: you know the

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: whole world is doing that um i don’t need that that’s radical it’s radical to

[Stsacey Jenkins]: accept yourself and your

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i don’t want i was gonna use the word negative but

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i don’t really necessarily believe in positive or negative i just feel like you

[Stsacey Jenkins]: know

[Stsacey Jenkins]: it’s what’s positive or negative or right or wrong at that time for the variables

[Stsacey Jenkins]: at hand or for the people in the room

[Stsacey Jenkins]: i i don’t believe that things are black and white so yeah so radical self

[Stsacey Jenkins]: acceptance was a book i read about

[Stsacey Jenkins]: finding a way to accept yourself

[Stsacey Jenkins]: in the face of what we are bombarded with daily that tells

[Nick McGowan]: Hm,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: us who we should be and how we should act and how we should look

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: that’s uh. It’s something that I think a lot of people don’t understand that

[Nick McGowan]: we are constantly sponging in information.

[Nick McGowan]: No,

[Stsacey Jenkins]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: I, the more that I become aware of that, the more that I feel it

[Stacey Jenkins]: Rryick,

[Nick McGowan]: you good. So the more that I become aware of that, the more that I feel that

[Nick McGowan]: and I can see that like there are certain times where I’ll wake up in the

[Nick McGowan]: morning. grab my phone, Ill look at calendar or something. It’s like I just

[Nick McGowan]: instantly get into it and then I’ll be on Instigram or Facebook, or even

[Nick McGowan]: linked in. And next thing you know, you’re just absorbing stuff and you’re

[Nick McGowan]: like there’s things and other people are making millions of dollars and I need

[Nick McGowan]: to do more things. In fuck, I think I need to

[Stacey Jenkins]: Mhm,

[Nick McGowan]: lose twenty pounds. And like I just woke the fuck up. This

[Stacey Jenkins]: Yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: doesn’t make any sense, but it’s just coming at you. and for the people that

[Nick McGowan]: are unaware of that, they’re just as absorbing that they just take it and they

[Nick McGowan]: absorb it. So the fact that you read something is great, But what really stood

[Nick McGowan]: out? Would you think it was something where you were like? Look? I’ve had

[Nick McGowan]: enough of this because right now it might be a little bit more difficult with

[Nick McGowan]: social media and with pressures and stuff like that,

[Stacey Jenkins]: I.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Yeah, you know what. I do feel like we’re in kind of a bit of an

[Stacey Jenkins]: awakening. Um. whereas, like, maybe like eight to ten years ago, you know

[Stacey Jenkins]: social media is everything. It’s webo. Um.

[Stacey Jenkins]: We didn’t know how it would affect us and we didn’t know that engineers

[Stacey Jenkins]: at these companies were starting to realize that they could give us quick

[Stacey Jenkins]: doping hits that would make us stay on their sights longer, so

[Stacey Jenkins]: I think we are we. There’s documentaries about this stuff now. I mean

[Stacey Jenkins]: there’s there’s things that we can understand, Um, Facebook or Meta, I

[Stacey Jenkins]: think is on a decline Because of this because of this awareness that

[Stacey Jenkins]: we’re starting

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm, Mhm,

[Stacey Jenkins]: to have about how social media affects us. Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: Now I’m speaking about this as a forty seven year old woman. I don’t know

[Stacey Jenkins]: how it’s affecting teens and all

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: that, and I would hope that this knowledge becomes. You know

[Stacey Jenkins]: that it that

[Stacey Jenkins]: we talk about it more, and that we understand more that,

[Stacey Jenkins]: uh, our eyeballs and our our attention is what these companies are

[Stacey Jenkins]: selling to other people. You, we, we are that product. Our attention is

[Stacey Jenkins]: the product and they’re intentionally keeping us constantly on alert with

[Stacey Jenkins]: all of those things that you just said Nick. Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: So one of the things that I’m working on right now is actually, Um, not

[Stacey Jenkins]: looking at my phone at night. It’s It’s a real struggle like I’m really

[Stacey Jenkins]: struggling with this. Um, I go to fed with my phone. I regret it at night

[Stacey Jenkins]: because I get a lot of cool information about things that I’m interested

[Stacey Jenkins]: in. If I wake up in the middle of the night, I’ll look. The first thing I

[Stacey Jenkins]: do is look at my phone.

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm, Mhm,

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um, so it’s only been about two weeks now where I’m trying to break this

[Stacey Jenkins]: habit. It’s hard.

[Nick McGowan]: Hm,

[Stacey Jenkins]: It’s not easy.

[Nick McGowan]: Wow, how are you doing it?

[Stacey Jenkins]: Not well, the I’ve decided that, Um, you know, in the in the when I go to

[Stacey Jenkins]: bed, my plan is ’cause I have to. I can’t turn my phone off. You know,

[Stacey Jenkins]: Luckily, our systems at I, at our company are stable,

[Stacey Jenkins]: but if I, you know, I have to ▁ultimately be available if something goes

[Stacey Jenkins]: wrong in the middle of night for data center goes down. You know

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Stacey Jenkins]: I, I need to be able to answer that phone call. so we get calls from

[Stacey Jenkins]: India sometimes.

[Stacey Jenkins]: So my plan is to, and I’ven’t gotten this far yet, Put my phone on the

[Stacey Jenkins]: dresser across from the bed,

[Stacey Jenkins]: and um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: I put myself to sleep by reading. So even just going in and putting it

[Stacey Jenkins]: somewhere else and not having it with me when I go to bed to fall asleep

[Stacey Jenkins]: has been hard. so I haven’t even gotten that far to putting the phone

[Stacey Jenkins]: across the room. What I realized I was doing for a while with staying on

[Stacey Jenkins]: the couch, because I knew when I had to go in the room? I? I had a rule

[Stacey Jenkins]: for myself that Id to put the phone away, so I

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: didn’t go to bed and go to bed.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Think it’s so silly. Um,

[Nick McGowan]: you gotta pair it yourself.

[Stacey Jenkins]: yeah, yeah, I didn’t realize how addicted I was to all of that stuff, and

[Stacey Jenkins]: um,

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: just in the past few weeks, have I really been working on it? It’s my

[Stacey Jenkins]: number one thing that it that my self mastery thing that I’m working on

[Stacey Jenkins]: right now,

[Nick McGowan]: that’s beautiful. What out? What do you think? Spurr that?

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um, I, uh, I’m uh, working with a dietitian right now, so

[Nick McGowan]: Okay,

[Stacey Jenkins]: I’m sure I know one of the things that you’ll want to talk about is

[Stacey Jenkins]: something you know, a major episode or experience in our life, and one

[Stacey Jenkins]: for me was being diagnosed with cancer. Um, good news is I beat it. Um. I

[Stacey Jenkins]: am close to a major milestone in terms of Um, my recovery and my time

[Stacey Jenkins]: being a survivor. Um. but with cancer treatments, Um comes side effects

[Stacey Jenkins]: and so I wanted to. One of the things that I’ve never really mastered or

[Stacey Jenkins]: really been good about is my diet. Um, I’m lucky that I’m married to a

[Stacey Jenkins]: physical therapist and she’s very health conscious, So by living in this

[Stacey Jenkins]: household, I probably had a better diet you know than than if I. I wasn’t

[Stacey Jenkins]: with her, but um, it was something that I decided to do for myself to

[Stacey Jenkins]: really, you know, get my, get my body, you know,

[Nick McGowan]: Hm,

[Stacey Jenkins]: feeling good and as healthy as I can be. so I hired a dietitian and Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: turns out

[Stacey Jenkins]: she, she’s looking at things that are not just diet related, but she’s

[Stacey Jenkins]: looking at lifestyle related things to. So sleep is something that we’ve

[Stacey Jenkins]: really been talking about that like, Yeah, you can eat all the right

[Stacey Jenkins]: foods. But if your sleep’s terrible, you’re still

[Nick McGowan]: yeah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: going to feel bad. Are your body’s

[Nick McGowan]: Yep,

[Stacey Jenkins]: still not going to be in the best operating order than it used to be. And

[Stacey Jenkins]: so we’ve together uncovered this habit that I have over the past few

[Stacey Jenkins]: weeks, and so that has turned into the the. The. The big thing that we’re

[Stacey Jenkins]: working on.

[Nick McGowan]: that’s awesome. It’s so

[Stacey Jenkins]: Yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: crazy when you realize that too, and you’re like, Yeah, I’ve been sitting

[Nick McGowan]: there for like an extra three hours,

[Nick McGowan]: And when when it hits you and you’re like damn all right, I got to do

[Nick McGowan]: something and that’s that’s a big milestone. Even there to go, I got to do

[Nick McGowan]: something. Um to hire the dietitian to take a step that direction, tire the

[Nick McGowan]: dietitian, Um, I, I’ve never gone through cancer. I have some friends in

[Nick McGowan]: family that have you being one of them. I could only imagine what that

[Nick McGowan]: actually does to your body, let alone the other things that you have to do to

[Nick McGowan]: your body to try to get the cancer out.

[Nick McGowan]: so I know that at a basic necessity, if your body and mind are aligned, then

[Nick McGowan]: you’re in a good spot.

[Nick McGowan]: If you’re not then you’re getting two hours of sleep. But you’re doing great

[Nick McGowan]: on your diet, or you’re getting fifteen hours of sleep and you’re over

[Nick McGowan]: sleeping. It’s like balance, all things. Um, and I remember a couple of years

[Nick McGowan]: ago I said to you like I, I get about F. more and half hours of sleep and you

[Nick McGowan]: gave me this look

[Stacey Jenkins]: I remember that

[Nick McGowan]: like how do you? how do you operate? And I jokingly said something like this,

[Nick McGowan]: and I pointed out at my coffee or something like mosy on back to my office.

[Nick McGowan]: Um, but I was in one of those spots where I, I was trying to get away from

[Nick McGowan]: other things that I wasn’t able to sleep. So did you find yourself that you

[Nick McGowan]: were in a spot with things that are being brought up like sleeping or other

[Nick McGowan]: habits that you’ doing where you like you know? I kind of knew of those things

[Nick McGowan]: before and I just didn’t do anything about them.

[Stacey Jenkins]: it was a mix of both. I think, Nick.

[Stacey Jenkins]: if you were to talk to my wife, she would say yes. I complain to Stacy

[Stacey Jenkins]: all the time about being on her phone at night.

[Stacey Jenkins]: You know doesn’t belong, you know in the bedroom at night, and she has sp

[Stacey Jenkins]: on my case about it for a long time, But I just didn’t think it was a big

[Stacey Jenkins]: deal. I have to have my phone work. I

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Stacey Jenkins]: have to be available

[Stacey Jenkins]: just reading an article. You know, I’m going to fall asleep. Um, you’re

[Stacey Jenkins]: reading a book I’m just reading on my phone. Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: but it is different because I’m scrolling through headlines and getting

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Stacey Jenkins]: constant dople mean hits. And it’s different than reading a book. So I

[Stacey Jenkins]: knew

[Nick McGowan]: yeah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: it was something that I needed to work on. I just didn’t take it very

[Stacey Jenkins]: seriously.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um, but not until working with this dietitian, who’ really more, just

[Stacey Jenkins]: like a full. It’s mostly diet, but it’s she has like five goal posts of

[Stacey Jenkins]: of wellness. You know, it’s a. It’s a full lifestyle program,

[Nick McGowan]: hm,

[Stacey Jenkins]: so uh, not until I started talking to her about it and she was like,

[Stacey Jenkins]: Yeah, put that you know, don’t get on your phone at night. I could. I

[Stacey Jenkins]: couldn’t stop. It was really hard so uh, I knew it was kind of a thing,

[Stacey Jenkins]: but I didn’t take it very seriously.

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm, You said. that’s one of the big things that has happened. Are there any

[Nick McGowan]: other episodes or major moments over the courses of time that you can look

[Nick McGowan]: back to and go Damn. that was a moment that changed me.

[Stacey Jenkins]: I have a few I have. I can think of times in college, Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: I can think of.

[Stacey Jenkins]: I can think on a ha, like. On one hand, there’s been a few, like, really,

[Stacey Jenkins]: really personal moments that have shaped me to be who I am.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um.

[Stacey Jenkins]: The most recent

[Stacey Jenkins]: was my health situation.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: and I’m not sure if you’re Oh, if you knew about these Um series of

[Stacey Jenkins]: events, I wasn’t really too open about it, Um, but

[Stacey Jenkins]: I,

[Stacey Jenkins]: my dad died less than twenty four hours from when I got my cancer

[Stacey Jenkins]: diagnosis, so I was

[Stacey Jenkins]: trying to absorb this information that I got about my health,

[Stacey Jenkins]: and you know, figure that out, Um. The next

[Stacey Jenkins]: morning I was hanging out with some really close friends and and we were

[Stacey Jenkins]: just all being really gentle with each other. Um, ’cause a lot of a lot

[Stacey Jenkins]: of a cancer diagnosis is a waiting game. right? It’s like you got the

[Stacey Jenkins]: diagnosis and then you just have to sit and wait for the next doctor’s

[Stacey Jenkins]: appointment or the next test. and um, you know you, you don’t want to

[Stacey Jenkins]: read too much on Google, but you do anyway. Um, so I was hanging out with

[Stacey Jenkins]: my friends and I got a phone call from my mom that she couldn’t wake up

[Stacey Jenkins]: my dad.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Meanwhile, I’m just I’m I’m more freaking out about how I’m going to tell

[Stacey Jenkins]: my parents this situation ’cause

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: I knew it was goingnna devastate them.

[Stacey Jenkins]: So

[Stacey Jenkins]: it was like one thing after another, it was almost like being in shock. I

[Stacey Jenkins]: guess you know, I just i picked up my things. We had to drive over to my

[Stacey Jenkins]: parents. They live thirty minutes from me, and in fact, my my dad had

[Stacey Jenkins]: died that morning. Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: so

[Stacey Jenkins]: from there

[Stacey Jenkins]: about two weeks after that is when Covid started shutting things down in

[Stacey Jenkins]: the U. S.

[Stacey Jenkins]: so

[Stacey Jenkins]: my mom had to come live with us. Uh, for a little while.

[Stacey Jenkins]: I had to go through

[Stacey Jenkins]: surgeries and treatments

[Stacey Jenkins]: while taking care of my mom

[Stacey Jenkins]: while helping plan my father’s funeral. That turns out we couldn’t have

[Stacey Jenkins]: because of coved,

[Stacey Jenkins]: and

[Stacey Jenkins]: just trying to work through all of that stuff at one time.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: I would kind of joke with people that I. It was kind of like there were

[Stacey Jenkins]: these three big holes, but I couldn’t fully fall into one of them and

[Stacey Jenkins]: like almost it like it was a saving grace Because the

[Nick McGowan]: hm,

[Stacey Jenkins]: minute I started feeling real bad about my health, my mom needed you

[Stacey Jenkins]: know. I needed to help my mom or I needed to take care of some with my

[Stacey Jenkins]: dad’s estate, you know, and and really become the person

[Stacey Jenkins]: that handled all of these things with my dad passing away. I also had to

[Stacey Jenkins]: go to cancer treatments alone. Um, because a covet, nobody was allowed to

[Stacey Jenkins]: go with us, So it was a

[Stacey Jenkins]: a very very, very, very lonely time

[Stacey Jenkins]: in my life

[Stacey Jenkins]: and it was very very recent, you know, was within the past two years

[Stacey Jenkins]: here,

[Nick McGowan]: yeah, yeah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um, and it definitely changed me. I mean, first of all, losing a parent A

[Stacey Jenkins]: lo. You know a beloved parent will change you. that’ going through grief

[Stacey Jenkins]: and it’s something that I think I kinda W was on the long brief train.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Know I was with even as a kid like, very aware of the impermanence of

[Stacey Jenkins]: life. And

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Stacey Jenkins]: so it’s something that I always knew was coming when I was always really

[Stacey Jenkins]: afraid of.

[Stacey Jenkins]: So that changes you. you know. Ah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: but to go through all of that at one time,

[Stacey Jenkins]: and then to,

[Stacey Jenkins]: and to stay

[Stacey Jenkins]: on two feet and get myself up of self up every day

[Stacey Jenkins]: and take care of my mom. Oh, and during this time we, also, you know, we

[Stacey Jenkins]: built a cottage in my backyard so that my mom, you know, could live with

[Stacey Jenkins]: us because she couldn’t live on her own, So we managed a construction

[Stacey Jenkins]: project during this time, too,

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um, Well,

[Stacey Jenkins]: it, it changed me. Gosh, in so many ways I, I’m sure you could imagine

[Stacey Jenkins]: how you would be changed by just one of those events.

[Nick McGowan]: y.

[Stacey Jenkins]: It.

[Stacey Jenkins]: it taught me that I can handle anything.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um. it taught me to be vulnerable.

[Stacey Jenkins]: It taught me to ask for help. You know me well enough to know that I’m a

[Stacey Jenkins]: very capable person

[Stacey Jenkins]: and so asking for help can be something that’s hard for me, especially

[Stacey Jenkins]: when it’s things that like are really emotional and vulnerable.

[Nick McGowan]: hm.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um,

[Nick McGowan]: yeah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: so

[Stacey Jenkins]: I, you know, obviously learned a lot. I think I’m still processing a lot

[Stacey Jenkins]: of of of all of that stuff. Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: but that that changed me big time.

[Stacey Jenkins]: I feel like I grew up a lot in the past two years. I have a renewed sense

[Stacey Jenkins]: for the fragility of life.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: How precious every day is? It sounds cliche, you know, but it really is.

[Stacey Jenkins]: It’s just

[Nick McGowan]: yeah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: a mystery that

[Stacey Jenkins]: we’re even here’s. It’s a beautiful mystery.

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm. it’s beautiful, Innt.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: so I think I’m more in touch with that that mystery which can make other

[Stacey Jenkins]: things that probably

[Stacey Jenkins]: cause us in the daily experience of life to get bent out of shape or get

[Stacey Jenkins]: upset. Um, it really helped me with perspective. in that way.

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: I would imagine that would help you with perspective and a number of other

[Nick McGowan]: things.

[Nick McGowan]: It’s interesting. The statement that you said about almost like this pyramid

[Nick McGowan]: of craziness. that’s happening. My picture like almost a fidget spinner in a

[Nick McGowan]: sense, but like the

[Stacey Jenkins]: Yes,

[Nick McGowan]: ends being those holes, then you can’t just fall into one because as you start

[Nick McGowan]: to go one direction another’ is going to pull you and

[Nick McGowan]: I I want to know how you how your mind was and how you managed your mind and

[Nick McGowan]: your overall mindset Throughout that. it sounds like that was one of the

[Nick McGowan]: things you said. I’m not going to fall through these holes, so I’m going to be

[Nick McGowan]: all right. That may have been a subconscious kind of saving you like there’s a

[Nick McGowan]: lot of crazy shit going on. You’re not going to die. Here’s the

[Stacey Jenkins]: yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: visual. but how did you manage the day to day and manage to stay positive

[Nick McGowan]: through it?

[Stacey Jenkins]: Ap question. I asked for help. so I talked to a therapist. Definitely had

[Stacey Jenkins]: somebody, because you know I didn’t. even while I was sick, I felt like I

[Stacey Jenkins]: had to take care of the emotions of the people around me. Um.

[Nick McGowan]: Hm,

[Stacey Jenkins]: I,

[Stacey Jenkins]: I was very conscious of the fact that I was going through this

[Stacey Jenkins]: experience, but my wife was going through the experience of having a wife

[Stacey Jenkins]: with cancer or wife

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: whose father in law, Just you know, whose father just passed away and his

[Stacey Jenkins]: grieving at the same

[Nick McGowan]: yeah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: time, a wife. who’s

[Stacey Jenkins]: I, I had to ask her for help. I was like, I don’t know how to help my

[Stacey Jenkins]: mom. I’m I

[Nick McGowan]: yeah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: don’t know what to do. Um, please be my partner in this. I need my mom to

[Stacey Jenkins]: stay with us. I, I don’t know what to do. so there was a lot of asking

[Stacey Jenkins]: for help which was

[Stacey Jenkins]: outside of my comfort. ▁zone, Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: and I got help. You know Th that everybody I had such support it was. It

[Stacey Jenkins]: was beautiful and wonderful and even my friends in my neighborhood. Who,

[Stacey Jenkins]: who didn’t know what to do and couldn’t go to take me, Tim, off it, Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: and sit with me. Would you show up in my yard? You know when I got back

[Stacey Jenkins]: from something, and and really support me in that way? So

[Stacey Jenkins]: I learned

[Stacey Jenkins]: if I didn’t already know how to ask for help or what that pattern looked

[Stacey Jenkins]: like. I really big time learned how to ask for help and to really lean on

[Stacey Jenkins]: my support system.

[Nick McGowan]: H.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: and some days it was just like Put one foot front of the other, Just keep

[Stacey Jenkins]: going. Don’t stop. Just keep going, Um, I’m a runner. Uh, so

[Stacey Jenkins]: it? many days I would wake up and just really really

[Stacey Jenkins]: tie it to running and just keep putting one front in front of the other.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Just move. Keep moving forward. If you need to stop and get a glass of

[Stacey Jenkins]: water. Or if you need to stop running and take a breath.

[Stacey Jenkins]: That’s okay. If you need to stop and break for a minute. That’s okay.

[Stacey Jenkins]: But eventually, just keep moving forward and so on the days when I felt

[Stacey Jenkins]: like I couldn’t. I just would you know

[Stacey Jenkins]: if I was back at work, just read that next email. Just get through

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Stacey Jenkins]: the next thing. Just keep going.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um. And if you’re feeling awful and you’re feeling terrible and there

[Stacey Jenkins]: were terrible moments, Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: acknowledge it. but but don’t stop.

[Nick McGowan]: how did you acknowledge that without stopping? Did you find yourself in a

[Nick McGowan]: little bit of a process when you could almost feel a bit overwhelmed? Or was

[Nick McGowan]: it just kind of fluid? It moved between situations.

[Stacey Jenkins]: How did I keep? So I, I think you’re asking, Like in the times that I

[Stacey Jenkins]: really wanted to break, or that I was, I did break. Um.

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah, exactly,

[Stacey Jenkins]: How did I keep going? How do you not fall into a wholele?

[Stacey Jenkins]: I, n. I think I just didn’t have an option. I think I, you know, I,

[Stacey Jenkins]: and there were times where I, you know I would stay in bed for a day, Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: and I would just get rusted or or try to sleep. Um, but I never gave up,

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um, mostly because I had people around that were dependent on me,

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Uh, not giving up,

[Stacey Jenkins]: So

[Nick McGowan]: Hm.

[Stacey Jenkins]: maybe it was that people pleasing part that that never really went away.

[Nick McGowan]: that kept you going.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean. I know that’s a. Really. it’s. It’s a dark

[Stacey Jenkins]: topic and it’s a. It’s a dark question that you’re asking me like. How do

[Stacey Jenkins]: you? How do you not get sucked into that? And

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: the only,

[Stacey Jenkins]: I mean, even looking back on it it’s hard to

[Stacey Jenkins]: like. I’m really proud of myself. Uh,

[Nick McGowan]: as you should be,

[Stacey Jenkins]: but

[Stacey Jenkins]: I, I think ill. A lot of it had to do with

[Stacey Jenkins]: not. I wasn’t ready to be done,

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Stacey Jenkins]: you know, I. I got that diagnosis and then my dad was done and I was

[Stacey Jenkins]: like, I, I want to be done. You know, I’m not ready to be done. Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: but at moments when I felt at the lowest, you know, I had hired help, you

[Stacey Jenkins]: know, so that I knew that there was somebody could always call unbrdened

[Stacey Jenkins]: because I was paying them for that service, but

[Nick McGowan]: this is your job.

[Stacey Jenkins]: I also knew that I had. Yeah, I’m like you got to listen to me. Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: uh,

[Stacey Jenkins]: well, I was also very conscious of the fact that you can’t put all your

[Stacey Jenkins]: burdens on one person. you, you know,

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: your partner can’t be your everything. Um, you need to have friends in a

[Stacey Jenkins]: support network. And um, so so I made sure that I

[Stacey Jenkins]: that I built up the support network around me where I needed it, and

[Stacey Jenkins]: in those relationships where maybe I wasn’t always as open or able to ask

[Stacey Jenkins]: for help. I just kind of

[Stacey Jenkins]: I. I think that radical self acceptance comes back to it and I was like

[Stacey Jenkins]: just ex. You know, people want to help. People want

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Stacey Jenkins]: to help. Just ask for help even if it’s just an ear.

[Nick McGowan]: Yeah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: Uh to listen,

[Nick McGowan]: some people that’s their. That’s their jam. You know, they love to serve in

[Nick McGowan]: any

[Stacey Jenkins]: Mhm,

[Nick McGowan]: way that they can, and that serves them in so many ways. It’s interesting to

[Nick McGowan]: hear that you felt pressure to have to serve. Airquotes have to serve.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Mhm,

[Nick McGowan]: Then that people pleasing came out. Um,

[Nick McGowan]: not having the option of just saying, fuck it, and just not wanting to be here

[Nick McGowan]: anymore and laying down and dying

[Nick McGowan]: is probably one of the things that really kept you going in those tough times,

[Nick McGowan]: even if if it was subconscious, Because I think the subconscious will try to

[Nick McGowan]: save you in different ways. Uh, without you even

[Stacey Jenkins]: For sure,

[Nick McGowan]: knowing, like, for the most part like you don’t think about your breathing,

[Nick McGowan]: but you do it. you know.

[Stacey Jenkins]: right,

[Nick McGowan]: so even in those sort of uh, crazy traumatic ways, I think that the

[Nick McGowan]: subconscious will kick in and sometimes also shelter you. So, did you find

[Nick McGowan]: that there was anything that you went through that? Maybe now you’re starting

[Nick McGowan]: to actually process through. Um, because you just weren’t able to, and you

[Nick McGowan]: kind of shut down in certain ways.

[Stacey Jenkins]: it’s hard for me to say because this is. obviously. this is my experience

[Stacey Jenkins]: and I

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm.

[Stacey Jenkins]: haven’t experienced it in in a different way. Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: I think I’m still

[Stacey Jenkins]: processing losing my father.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: I think because

[Stacey Jenkins]: you know I talk about. I. I. I joke about it like there were so many

[Stacey Jenkins]: holes that I could have fallen into during that time that they kind of

[Stacey Jenkins]: kept me centered. I rest liket this gravity center place where I couldn’t

[Stacey Jenkins]: fall fully into one of them. But, but maybe that’s not a good thing. You

[Stacey Jenkins]: know, Maybe I needed to fall deeply into that whole

[Nick McGowan]: Hm,

[Stacey Jenkins]: of grieving my dad. Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: but it was just too much at that time and I couldn’t. so

[Stacey Jenkins]: I try

[Stacey Jenkins]: it, but I, the reason I said earlier, Like

[Stacey Jenkins]: you know, I can only speak to my experience because my experience was

[Stacey Jenkins]: losing my dad while all of these other things were going on. So

[Nick McGowan]: yeah, yeah,

[Stacey Jenkins]: maybe if you lose a beloved parent, I that you know, the grieving does

[Stacey Jenkins]: go. This is the normal thing. Grieving does go on forever, So I still try

[Stacey Jenkins]: to, you know, when I have my dad’s with me all the time he’s he’s a part

[Stacey Jenkins]: of me. Um, he’s not someplace else. he’s I am, obviously, uh,

[Stacey Jenkins]: biologically partly my father, but also who I am as a person and the

[Stacey Jenkins]: things that I do in the way that I live. my life is also my dad, so he’s

[Stacey Jenkins]: still here. Um, but but yeah, I’m I’m still trying to grieve through that

[Stacey Jenkins]: stuff, so when I’m feeling tender, I try to give myself a break and not,

[Stacey Jenkins]: you know. it could be really easy to look at. Pick up your phone or find

[Stacey Jenkins]: some avoid E mechanism,

[Stacey Jenkins]: but I try to be mindful and to be tender with myself and just really

[Stacey Jenkins]: appreciate that moment for what it is.

[Nick McGowan]: sure, and when you’re aware of that moment and you can call it and go, Oh,

[Nick McGowan]: this is one of those moments, especially when you are able to say Oh, I want

[Nick McGowan]: to go, want to go drink, or I want to go do something. That’s

[Nick McGowan]: almost just give a bandage to it and be smart enough radical enough to be able

[Nick McGowan]: to say no. I don’t want to do that. I need to go do this where I needed to

[Nick McGowan]: step outside Be before we even started the recording. You talked about what

[Nick McGowan]: the rest of the night’s going to look like and said Well, I’m going to do

[Nick McGowan]: this. Then I’m going to go take a walk and be able to get that energy off. and

[Nick McGowan]: kind of just get through the rest of the night and enjoy and that’s a

[Nick McGowan]: beautiful thing to be able to be aware of that. Um, I’m sorry to hear that you

[Nick McGowan]: went through everything that you went through. I appreciate you sharing

[Nick McGowan]: everything that you’ve shared. I could imagine that’s all been extremely

[Nick McGowan]: tough, and I hope that there are people that listen to this that think you

[Nick McGowan]: know I’m going through really tough times and then they hear what you went

[Nick McGowan]: through and think, Oh, well, maybe it’s not as tough and not to you know,

[Nick McGowan]: point and say, well, somebody else’s pain is worse or different, But it’s all

[Nick McGowan]: perspective and the fact that you’re able to get through what you got through

[Nick McGowan]: have the perspective that you have.

[Nick McGowan]: I would hope that people can take note of that, and the listeners of the show

[Nick McGowan]: are the people that go through stuff that strive to be a little less bad than

[Nick McGowan]: they were the day before and be able to work on their path towards self

[Nick McGowan]: mastery. So what advice would you give somebody that’s on their path toward

[Nick McGowan]: self mastery?

[Stacey Jenkins]: You can cut this part out of your podcast if you want Nick. But but self

[Stacey Jenkins]: mastery is not a destination right. It’s it. Stop the entire process.

[Stacey Jenkins]: I don’t.

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Stacey Jenkins]: I don’t think I will ever be a master. Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: And if there’s somebody out there telling you that they’re a master and

[Stacey Jenkins]: that they have the answers, I would. I

[Nick McGowan]: run

[Stacey Jenkins]: would. I would suggest that you’re on the other way.

[Nick McGowan]: ru,

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: so so my advice.

[Stacey Jenkins]: It’s so hard because it’s all we’re all such

[Stacey Jenkins]: complex beings and we’ve all had our own upbringings and our own defense

[Stacey Jenkins]: mechanisms that have

[Nick McGowan]: mhm,

[Stacey Jenkins]: become parts of our personality over the years.

[Stacey Jenkins]: And

[Stacey Jenkins]: I mean, and in and depression is a real thing, too. You know, so it’s

[Stacey Jenkins]: like I was able to keep myself out of one of those holes, but

[Stacey Jenkins]: you know that that is something that that people struggle with, too. That

[Stacey Jenkins]: that can be really hard. So, for me to say, read the book Radical self

[Stacey Jenkins]: acceptance. you know, if you’re if you’re in a bad place and you’re in a

[Stacey Jenkins]: dark place, that’s not. I don’t know that reading that book is going to

[Stacey Jenkins]: help in that moment in time.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: The the biggest differentior for me for getting through this time in my

[Stacey Jenkins]: life

[Stacey Jenkins]: was

[Stacey Jenkins]: the

[Stacey Jenkins]: support network that I had,

[Stacey Jenkins]: and

[Stacey Jenkins]: you know I was talking to a friend about this. I was, you know,

[Stacey Jenkins]: reflecting on the fact that I felt so lucky to have this support network.

[Stacey Jenkins]: And,

[Stacey Jenkins]: but, but this person reminded me that you know like, but you built that

[Stacey Jenkins]: network. You know like that is something that you built up over time by

[Stacey Jenkins]: being a good friend by being a good daughter, Um by being being somebody

[Stacey Jenkins]: who’s there for other people as well. So they were just all lined up

[Stacey Jenkins]: waiting with flags. you know to help me just when I was when I was able

[Stacey Jenkins]: to ask for it. Um, so for anybody listening, who’s on their own path.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Whatever it is that you’re trying to master, whether it’s like not

[Stacey Jenkins]: sleeping with your phone, it’s just really hard

[Stacey Jenkins]: or you know, getting through like some of the most difficult human

[Stacey Jenkins]: experience questions that we’ going to have while we’re here in these

[Nick McGowan]: Mhm,

[Stacey Jenkins]: bodies on this earth. Um,

[Stacey Jenkins]: I would say like raise your hand and ask for help even if it’s even if

[Stacey Jenkins]: you feel like you don’t have a support network or a trusted person.

[Stacey Jenkins]: people are out there and want to help. And um, and it’s just a matter of

[Stacey Jenkins]: being able

[Stacey Jenkins]: to to be vulnerable. and as for it,

[Nick McGowan]: That’s beautiful. I hope that you would have gone toward the ask for help

[Nick McGowan]: because that was a big thing that you’ve echoed several times throughout this

[Nick McGowan]: episode. Is that you’ asked for help. You stepped up to ask for help. And I

[Nick McGowan]: appreciate that your friend had said to you. You’re not lucky. It’s not like

[Nick McGowan]: you just found this twenty dollar bill sitting here. It’s something you would

[Nick McGowan]: actually set up and worked on because of the type of person that you are and

[Nick McGowan]: I’m right there with you. Self mastery is not a destination. Life isn’t about

[Nick McGowan]: a destination. It’s about the process. it’s about the

[Stacey Jenkins]: right,

[Nick McGowan]: journey. It’s about doing those things in the little moments and being aware

[Nick McGowan]: enough to look around. like we said earlier. Life is beautiful. Just take a

[Nick McGowan]: moment to go Hu. man, This is great and having those little awareness moments.

[Nick McGowan]: So Stacy, thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you for being bro and

[Nick McGowan]: real. Uh, where can people connect to you? connect with you?

[Stacey Jenkins]: um, I am not on social media, so uh, you can find me on Linked in, uh, S.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Jenkins, D. C is uh, the the user name that you can find Man in Lincoln,

[Stacey Jenkins]: Um, And even though Linctonn is a professional place, um, uh, send me a

[Stacey Jenkins]: message. I’d love to hear from you if you have any thoughts about this,

[Stacey Jenkins]: uh, this talk or if something came up, or if you don’t know who to ask

[Stacey Jenkins]: for help as me, and uh, and and I can, I can give, Uh, give you my ear.

[Nick McGowan]: Appreciate that, Stacy. thank you very much for being on the show.

[Stacey Jenkins]: Thanks for having me.

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