Transforming Suffering Into Meaning – Ep.006 – Rich Mollica

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Episode summary:​ Some people say “my childhood sucked” or “my parents were awful”… Then there’s Rich, his childhood sucked and his parents really were awful (early in life) yet he serves and gives his heart to those in need.

We cover some seriously tough and deep subjects from human trafficking to redeemed relationships and a WHOLE LOT in between. 

Guest Name & Bio: Richard Mollica is a counselor with 24 years of experience in drug and alcohol and Mental Health Services.

Is a passionate advocate for anti-trafficking and abolition in our country. He is currently the senior pastor st. John’s United Church of Christ Easton PA

Rich Mollica

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[Nick McGowan]: Rich Mollica hello and welcome to the show i’m so glad you’re with us

[Rich Mollica]: Thanks for having me neck. It’s good to be here.

[Nick McGowan]: and man i’m glad that you’re here so you and i kind of go way back

[Nick McGowan]: but from let’s say from the neighborhood in a sense

[Nick McGowan]: can you tell us one thing you do for a living and one thing that most people don’t

[Nick McGowan]: know about you

[Rich Mollica]: so

[Rich Mollica]: I, I do a lot of work with addictions human trafficking. Uh, as in my role as a

[Nick McGowan]: so i see a lot of work

[Rich Mollica]: pastor,

[Nick McGowan]: was

[Rich Mollica]: and one thing people may not know about me

[Nick McGowan]: know about

[Rich Mollica]: is. Uh.

[Nick McGowan]: he is

[Rich Mollica]: Is that part of my work

[Nick McGowan]: for my work

[Rich Mollica]: over the past ten years, Uh has involved a lot of getting people out of

[Nick McGowan]: i love

[Rich Mollica]: situations when they’re They’re in human trafficking and they underpent domination.

[Nick McGowan]: had some pretty heay stuff right off the bat wow

[Nick McGowan]: so why would you say that most people don’t know that about you even people in your

[Nick McGowan]: circles

[Rich Mollica]: Well, I mean the people that are close to me. No, I’m passionate about it. Um, but

[Rich Mollica]: people that I just you know kind of know

[Nick McGowan]: on it so

[Rich Mollica]: Um, passingly or that work with me in as a pastor or as an a, Um, an addiction

[Rich Mollica]: counselor. Uh, I think

[Nick McGowan]: oh what was your

[Rich Mollica]: the majority of people don’t even know that that issue exists

[Nick McGowan]: she

[Rich Mollica]: locally.

[Nick McGowan]: yes

[Rich Mollica]: Um, So when

[Nick McGowan]: oh that’s the way i thought

[Rich Mollica]: I tell people about it, Um, you know a lot of times they. they have a a misconception

[Rich Mollica]: about what

[Nick McGowan]: definitely

[Rich Mollica]: I’m doing. They think I’m I’m working with foreign nationals or I’m doing

[Rich Mollica]: international stuff and it’s it’s American citizens in Upper Darby to Allentown

[Nick McGowan]: hm so let’s take a step back

[Rich Mollica]: Sure,

[Nick McGowan]: give us some context how did you get to where you’re at today and what makes you

[Nick McGowan]: you today

[Rich Mollica]: so I came up

[Nick McGowan]: i think

[Rich Mollica]: in a really traumatic family. Um.

[Rich Mollica]: there was uh, incest

[Nick McGowan]: he says

[Rich Mollica]: alcoholism,

[Rich Mollica]: Uh, domestic

[Nick McGowan]: uh that’s why

[Rich Mollica]: violence suicide

[Nick McGowan]: size

[Rich Mollica]: and I was just really

[Nick McGowan]: i see

[Rich Mollica]: really struggling. Um, you know and

[Rich Mollica]: I thought I found my solution in drugs, Uh, and in a particular lifestyle

[Nick McGowan]: yeah there’s a lot of

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: it left me drier than I started, and I,

[Rich Mollica]: I didn’t want to live that way anymore, but I didn’t know what. you know. What are my

[Rich Mollica]: alternatives and know? I didn’t see any trail blazers showing me a different way,

[Nick McGowan]: my

[Nick McGowan]: white

[Rich Mollica]: Uh, and then I got to a place um, where I had a spiritual awakening and I was able to

[Rich Mollica]: connect

[Rich Mollica]: Uh to some people that I didn’t know existed that were about you know. Coming from the

[Rich Mollica]: kind of life I had into a life that was healthy and hopeful.

[Nick McGowan]: so what about that has led you to do what you do today

[Rich Mollica]: I, I heard people

[Nick McGowan]: would be my situation

[Rich Mollica]: a lot of times say like you know, you become who you needed

[Rich Mollica]: and I think that’s a lot of my story.

[Rich Mollica]: I needed

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Rich Mollica]: somebody.

[Rich Mollica]: Um. That wasn’t going to judge me. That wasn’t gonna you know, try to control me, um,

[Rich Mollica]: or or put an agenda on me, but there was going to walk and journey with me in in love,

[Rich Mollica]: um, while at the same time

[Nick McGowan]: col

[Rich Mollica]: telling me you know you’re goingnna

[Nick McGowan]: st

[Rich Mollica]: step on your own airrows, buddy, like you know, you gotta switch it up or you’re gonna

[Rich Mollica]: get hurt

[Rich Mollica]: and uh,

[Rich Mollica]: and I think just

[Rich Mollica]: you know, trying to give back what I was given by the people that

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Rich Mollica]: that ended up investing in me, Um, just created a whole new life, and um and I, I

[Rich Mollica]: feel. Like it’s who I truly always was. Um, I just didn’t know how to be it.

[Nick McGowan]: so one of the biggest things about this podcast is breaking down the in between

[Nick McGowan]: where you were and where you are now and that how you got there and how you manage

[Nick McGowan]: your mindset so

[Nick McGowan]: coming from your background and please feel free to go go as deep as you would like

[Nick McGowan]: with any of that

[Nick McGowan]: or as surface level as you’d like but coming from the background that you had to

[Nick McGowan]: helping the people that you help today

[Nick McGowan]: how did you manage your mindset and not become one of those people even back you

[Nick McGowan]: know twenty years ago twenty five thirty years ago whatever that was

[Rich Mollica]: It started.

[Nick McGowan]: it’s so it no

[Rich Mollica]: Um, it started with just it twenty five years ago. Just believing that you know the

[Rich Mollica]: people that I was encountering that said they were like me, you know, felt genuine,

[Rich Mollica]: Felt honest.

[Rich Mollica]: and and not believing the lie that I couldn’t you know. there was a lot of people that

[Nick McGowan]: sp

[Rich Mollica]: I would encounter that were like that, would say to people like, Oh

[Nick McGowan]: see

[Rich Mollica]: yeah, young Buck, don’t

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Rich Mollica]: do this. Don’t do that. Don’t be like me while

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Rich Mollica]: they’re smoking crack, or while

[Nick McGowan]: friends

[Rich Mollica]: they’re shooting dope, they’re telling somebody else don’t do this.

[Rich Mollica]: and and I, I, a really seductive lie. Is

[Nick McGowan]: y

[Rich Mollica]: you know, I’m I’m

[Nick McGowan]: was

[Rich Mollica]: made to be this way. You know. That’s all the messages I got from my family. You know.

[Rich Mollica]: this is what you’re worth. This is what you can do. this is what you can accomplish. I

[Rich Mollica]: was laughed at for going to college.

[Rich Mollica]: I was laughed at for getting a job as a telemarketer. I mean that sounds crazy, but in

[Rich Mollica]: my family if you were a man, you, you did construction work,

[Nick McGowan]: social work

[Rich Mollica]: you collected a paycheck. You lived off a woman

[Nick McGowan]: say

[Rich Mollica]: Like those were your options,

[Rich Mollica]: so

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: I had to

[Nick McGowan]: i i

[Rich Mollica]: a day at a time.

[Rich Mollica]: Um believe

[Rich Mollica]: that the things people were telling me could

[Rich Mollica]: be my life I was going to invest in

[Nick McGowan]: how many cook you might like

[Nick McGowan]: invest in

[Rich Mollica]: and I was going to shut out the

[Rich Mollica]: noise

[Nick McGowan]: sh

[Rich Mollica]: and the people hating on me. You know, um,

[Nick McGowan]: so yeah

[Rich Mollica]: that I was going to just for, and I had to make it a small increment, because it’s so

[Nick McGowan]: is so co

[Rich Mollica]: powerful. It feels so overwhelming coming from the people

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rich Mollica]: that you known your whole life, the people you love.

[Rich Mollica]: Uh, I just had to believe

[Rich Mollica]: that that just in

[Nick McGowan]: just

[Rich Mollica]: this moment, uh, I can choose a different

[Rich Mollica]: path and that can free me to be who I feel. In my heart, I am,

[Nick McGowan]: man when you feel like that was your story and that’s what you were being told you

[Nick McGowan]: were meant to be almost like it was predestined that you were going to be the way

[Nick McGowan]: that they were all

[Nick McGowan]: currently being and how did you change your story what did that look like what was

[Nick McGowan]: that mental workout like

[Rich Mollica]: I mean, there’s so much you

[Nick McGowan]: much

[Rich Mollica]: know. There’s so many different ways I can answer that. The one thing I’ll say is,

[Rich Mollica]: Um,

[Rich Mollica]: I had to be around people that had different

[Nick McGowan]: that

[Rich Mollica]: stories. I had to be around

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Rich Mollica]: people that got to ground different than

[Nick McGowan]: christmas

[Rich Mollica]: than I had ever seen,

[Nick McGowan]: i guess

[Rich Mollica]: and just I had to to center myself

[Nick McGowan]: sub

[Rich Mollica]: in that. If I was too far in the other

[Nick McGowan]: four

[Rich Mollica]: old world, gravity just takes over.

[Rich Mollica]: you know,

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rich Mollica]: Um, One of the things that’s awesome is I’ve gotten to help a lot of those people

[Rich Mollica]: you know, Then come out later. you know. it’s like the lobster

[Nick McGowan]: was

[Rich Mollica]: bucket or the crab bucket. Rather,

[Rich Mollica]: you know, if

[Nick McGowan]: he she was grass love

[Rich Mollica]: if a a crab tries to get out of the bucket, they all pull ‘ down.

[Rich Mollica]: You know, because they’re afraid. you know. he’s going to be up on top of me.

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rich Mollica]: If one of us gets out

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: Well, then we got a path. Maybe we

[Rich Mollica]: can all get out together and not get boiled, you know, and I’ve been blessed to be

[Nick McGowan]: okay you op

[Rich Mollica]: able

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Rich Mollica]: to help some of those other folks

[Nick McGowan]: do

[Rich Mollica]: get out. now. Um,

[Rich Mollica]: the other thing,

[Nick McGowan]: what is this

[Rich Mollica]: Um,

[Rich Mollica]: is redefining who I am, like taking

[Nick McGowan]: white

[Rich Mollica]: an in ory of who I am,

[Rich Mollica]: and and redefining it, I was always taught empathy was a weakness.

[Rich Mollica]: I was taught.

[Rich Mollica]: If you were a man, you were a sociopath and you took

[Nick McGowan]: high you know what i’m saying

[Nick McGowan]: something

[Rich Mollica]: advantage of women. You know, you broke their minds so that they needed you And that’s

[Rich Mollica]: really what I was taught and I could never do that. So I was,

[Rich Mollica]: you know, I was weak. I was.

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Rich Mollica]: you know. Uh, you know, insert

[Nick McGowan]: certain

[Rich Mollica]: feminine, um slurs here. I wasn’t

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rich Mollica]: a man.

[Rich Mollica]: Um, and I had to

[Nick McGowan]: i not

[Rich Mollica]: look at who I am

[Rich Mollica]: and in community and by myself

[Rich Mollica]: redefined that

[Nick McGowan]: myself

[Nick McGowan]: do you still have conversation with the family members that

[Nick McGowan]: forgive me this sounds a little harsh but gave you that poison

[Rich Mollica]: No. at my,

[Nick McGowan]: plus

[Rich Mollica]: my father died when I was eighteen,

[Nick McGowan]: my mother does not

[Rich Mollica]: and uh, my mother uh, died two years ago. She was the only person

[Rich Mollica]: Uh that I that I allowed in even though there was poison there.

[Rich Mollica]: Um, there was also love there. You know, it was a complicated relationship,

[Rich Mollica]: but everybody else. Uh, I had to,

[Rich Mollica]: I had to

[Nick McGowan]: i say

[Rich Mollica]: say, I’m I’m I’m moving A Im. Am moving away from you in love. You know I love you. I

[Rich Mollica]: don’t hate you.

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rich Mollica]: Um, you know, a

[Nick McGowan]: so cool

[Rich Mollica]: nobody gave me a, you know, an Addda boy or a parade for that. But

[Nick McGowan]: crazy

[Rich Mollica]: if I stayed in that,

[Nick McGowan]: i see

[Rich Mollica]: even if it didn’t wound me at all, which it would have, I would have. I would have

[Rich Mollica]: transferred all

[Nick McGowan]: trees

[Rich Mollica]: that into my family

[Rich Mollica]: and

[Rich Mollica]: I, I

[Nick McGowan]: my

[Rich Mollica]: am dedicated to to trying to give my

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Rich Mollica]: family a different

[Rich Mollica]: story and starting ground

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Rich Mollica]: than I had,

[Rich Mollica]: and that meant distancecing family of origin.

[Nick McGowan]: and i think we’ve all heard before

[Nick McGowan]: you are the sum of the five people you hang around with the most

[Nick McGowan]: and that does consist of family if they are part of that five

[Nick McGowan]: family friends coworkers whatever that looks like

[Nick McGowan]: so for you to go through all of what you went through and be able to say i can’t

[Nick McGowan]: have this relationship

[Nick McGowan]: or even connect with you anymore i think there were people that listen to his

[Nick McGowan]: podcast that feel like they need to make that decision but are afraid to make that

[Nick McGowan]: decision because it’s the Nick McGowan right you know it’s the god knows what’s gonna

[Nick McGowan]: happen and how they’re gonna feel or how i’m going to fuel so what would you

[Nick McGowan]: suggest for somebody that’s going through that and really does need to make that

[Nick McGowan]: decision

[Rich Mollica]: You’ not helping

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Rich Mollica]: anybody by his sort by absorbing their abuse.

[Rich Mollica]: It’s not helping them,

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: either, you know, and I think at different points I felt like you know my love will

[Rich Mollica]: win the day. You know, my loyalty will win the day,

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Rich Mollica]: And it was just harming me and not helping them

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rich Mollica]: look up

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Rich Mollica]: any resource. You can

[Nick McGowan]: it’s just

[Rich Mollica]: you, toou, full of them. T to is

[Rich Mollica]: full of on narcisistic relationships,

[Nick McGowan]: in high school classes

[Rich Mollica]: and you will start to understand the patterns that you’. You’re being grinded apart

[Rich Mollica]: by.

[Nick McGowan]: quite important

[Rich Mollica]: Um. There are

[Rich Mollica]: two different ways to separate. The one is called Grey Rock

[Nick McGowan]: oh there’s a difference between

[Nick McGowan]: so like what you see pretty long

[Rich Mollica]: and that’s

[Rich Mollica]: essentially you know, choosing where I can meet you. You know, I can talk to you on

[Nick McGowan]: that session

[Rich Mollica]: the phone and that’s it, and if you get out of

[Nick McGowan]: yeah yes

[Rich Mollica]: hand, I’m hanging up the phone

[Rich Mollica]: or I can see

[Nick McGowan]: i can see you just the place

[Rich Mollica]: you, but only in a public place and only for a specified

[Nick McGowan]: christmas

[Rich Mollica]: amount of time. you know you set the

[Nick McGowan]: he said

[Rich Mollica]: parameters and then there’s just going cold,

[Nick McGowan]: cold

[Rich Mollica]: and just severing a

[Nick McGowan]: sum

[Rich Mollica]: relationship indefinitely,

[Nick McGowan]: definitely

[Rich Mollica]: or

[Rich Mollica]: at least for right now.

[Nick McGowan]: right now

[Rich Mollica]: Um, and

[Nick McGowan]: um that suppose decision to be

[Rich Mollica]: that’s a personal decision, you know, with my mom, Uh, I could have justified

[Nick McGowan]: justified free

[Rich Mollica]: breaking the severing the relationship, Uh, for some of the things that we went

[Rich Mollica]: through, but I didn’t want to do that. I saw.

[Nick McGowan]: but i didn’t wanna do that myself

[Rich Mollica]: I saw the value

[Nick McGowan]: she do

[Rich Mollica]: in in maintaining a

[Nick McGowan]: see

[Rich Mollica]: relationship with her and the last year of her life was the best we ever had.

[Nick McGowan]: question

[Rich Mollica]: Um for my extended family.

[Rich Mollica]: Um,

[Rich Mollica]: you know, just to give you a couple things, Um,

[Rich Mollica]: my aunt tried

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Rich Mollica]: to stab my mother. she set fire to

[Nick McGowan]: set water s

[Rich Mollica]: her husband’s house and went to prison,

[Rich Mollica]: Um. I

[Nick McGowan]: um i

[Rich Mollica]: got a phone call from

[Nick McGowan]: home

[Rich Mollica]: one of my family members

[Nick McGowan]: go

[Rich Mollica]: that struggles with mental illness that if I kept making my cousin fat

[Rich Mollica]: spiritually through my witchcraft, Um, they were

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rich Mollica]: going to kill me

[Rich Mollica]: and

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Rich Mollica]: Nick. I know it must

[Nick McGowan]: i know it must see what all decision

[Rich Mollica]: seem like an obvious decision, but I still labored.

[Rich Mollica]: you know,

[Nick McGowan]: it helps

[Rich Mollica]: but it was just too crazy and too chaotic.

[Rich Mollica]: Um,

[Nick McGowan]: um

[Rich Mollica]: you know, I

[Nick McGowan]: you know i just my bedroom and i th it in the like one corner it has a

[Rich Mollica]: just I remembered and I saw it in the life of my daughter, you know as a potential

[Rich Mollica]: future for her. I remember being a kid, like trying to figure out

[Rich Mollica]: you know why Aun’t such and such was saying this or thinking that,

[Nick McGowan]: about why such

[Rich Mollica]: and I just i.

[Rich Mollica]: I. I won’t allow it. I can’t. I can’t transmit that pain. It’s not helping my extended

[Rich Mollica]: family is only hurting my current self and family.

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: So for anybody

[Rich Mollica]: struggling with that

[Nick McGowan]: like st

[Rich Mollica]: I, I would

[Nick McGowan]: i i just get out

[Rich Mollica]: just weigh it out with counsel with support people, and please

[Rich Mollica]: do your research. Look

[Nick McGowan]: recently you go

[Rich Mollica]: up narcisistic relationships. It will equip you to understand this system.

[Nick McGowan]: are there some signs or things that you can point out that people can be mindful of

[Rich Mollica]: Sure, I think gas

[Nick McGowan]: sure i think that not

[Rich Mollica]: lighting is kinda entered into the common vocabulary.

[Nick McGowan]: mm hm

[Rich Mollica]: but when you know people say things,

[Nick McGowan]: city

[Rich Mollica]: do things and I just God. what are you talking about, honey? you know you just gotta

[Rich Mollica]: get a thicker skin. I don’t. even. I didn’t mean that. Um, if

[Nick McGowan]: well

[Rich Mollica]: that’s a pattern,

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Rich Mollica]: you know that’s one thing to look at love bombing.

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Rich Mollica]: You know. it

[Rich Mollica]: starts off with adoration and affirmation,

[Nick McGowan]: no it starts off

[Nick McGowan]: information

[Rich Mollica]: and Ah, you know, you know I in a romantic relationship. Oh baby girl, you know, we

[Rich Mollica]: had a good thing.

[Nick McGowan]: got

[Rich Mollica]: Whatever happened,

[Nick McGowan]: whatever

[Rich Mollica]: you know,

[Nick McGowan]: else and that

[Rich Mollica]: and then you go right back. it doesn’t take

[Nick McGowan]: those

[Rich Mollica]: long, and they become stingy with

[Nick McGowan]: she

[Rich Mollica]: affirmation heavy on

[Rich Mollica]: criticism, and they set themselves up as

[Nick McGowan]: one person

[Nick McGowan]: so he so

[Rich Mollica]: the only person that can give you value.

[Rich Mollica]: And and if you look at it on paper, it’s insane. I’ve seen

[Rich Mollica]: women that were making all the money in the household

[Rich Mollica]: that were handling everything,

[Rich Mollica]: but they felt like they, and this was my, my mother and father.

[Nick McGowan]: probably

[Rich Mollica]: The women felt like they

[Nick McGowan]: always say

[Rich Mollica]: were being given a favor

[Rich Mollica]: for paying for everything for

[Nick McGowan]: breakfast

[Rich Mollica]: doing all the work and absorbing all the abuse. You know, he condescends to keep me

[Rich Mollica]: around,

[Nick McGowan]: just

[Rich Mollica]: so just

[Nick McGowan]: is

[Rich Mollica]: like looking, I remember

[Rich Mollica]: saying to my father, I think I woke up a month later. Um, he would

[Nick McGowan]: i say my b

[Rich Mollica]: always talk about spending money on me and on my mother and how we’re

[Nick McGowan]: um no s enough especially once one

[Nick McGowan]: house

[Rich Mollica]: freeloaders and we were all on welfare,

[Nick McGowan]: would all

[Rich Mollica]: so I said to him,

[Nick McGowan]: so i said i said you

[Rich Mollica]: Dad, I get a pay cheeck too. Just like you,

[Nick McGowan]: he’s like

[Rich Mollica]: you know I

[Nick McGowan]: you know i

[Rich Mollica]: want my check and I woke up and

[Nick McGowan]: i won’t go

[Rich Mollica]: it was two years later, but you know it’s that kind of

[Nick McGowan]: that i

[Rich Mollica]: like separating yourself from it up for a minute,

[Nick McGowan]: would separate yourself to

[Rich Mollica]: analyzing what’s actually happening

[Rich Mollica]: and having

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Rich Mollica]: you know there’s always trying to cut you

[Nick McGowan]: trying more expensive you outside

[Rich Mollica]: off from resources or outside people that will help you in your perceptions.

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: You got to fight that you

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Rich Mollica]: got to connect to people that you can. Actually,

[Rich Mollica]: you know, trust their

[Nick McGowan]: what that

[Rich Mollica]: mirror a little bit, whether that’s a therapist or pastor or

[Nick McGowan]: ma

[Rich Mollica]: person in a twelve step group. Um, you need to get out of the box

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rich Mollica]: so that you can see it a little bit more clearly.

[Nick McGowan]: yeah it takes people being aware

[Nick McGowan]: of what’s going on what’s actually happening and it can be so easy for us and i

[Nick McGowan]: think everybody’s done this they’ve been in some sort of relationship where they’ve

[Nick McGowan]: allowed things to just be however it is and then they get out of the relationship

[Nick McGowan]: and think what what was wrong with me what was i thinking why did i allow this or

[Nick McGowan]: why did i allow that or why did they allow this or why did they allow that

[Nick McGowan]: so know you work with people different times that deal with narcissist but do you

[Nick McGowan]: also work with the people that are the narcissist because i would imagine that it’s

[Nick McGowan]: slightly different of how they have to go about fixing their problems

[Rich Mollica]: One thing, just to say to the

[Nick McGowan]: the first

[Rich Mollica]: previous question. Once you realize

[Rich Mollica]: that that it’s a game that it’s a formula and that it follows a similar pattern, it

[Rich Mollica]: blows your mind because you always think it’s about me

[Rich Mollica]: and then realizing it’s

[Nick McGowan]: it wasn’t

[Rich Mollica]: not about me, this is all about control and it’s a play book.

[Rich Mollica]: In my working with Narcisus.

[Nick McGowan]: what do you v

[Rich Mollica]: I’ll be honest

[Nick McGowan]: i’ll be honest with you

[Rich Mollica]: with you. I have not seen

[Rich Mollica]: Uh great

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: results.

[Nick McGowan]: now

[Rich Mollica]: It’s very

[Nick McGowan]: he’s very poor

[Rich Mollica]: hard to navigate an narsistic relationship,

[Rich Mollica]: Um,

[Rich Mollica]: in any way that creates a systemic change. It can be done.

[Rich Mollica]: Um. but

[Nick McGowan]: um what

[Rich Mollica]: if you look at Um, Doctor

[Nick McGowan]: i i love

[Rich Mollica]: Rommany is on Youtube. Uh, she’s very cold. Um, and factual about

[Nick McGowan]: s mountains like how she

[Rich Mollica]: the likelihood of that happening in particular. if it’s a malignant,

[Rich Mollica]: you know, physically abusive, um, vindictive nars. their kind of levels.

[Rich Mollica]: you know in, you know, if you’re married to a Hollywood actor, you know, they

[Rich Mollica]: are probably somewhere on that spectrum, but you might be able to to live with that

[Nick McGowan]: no i was so

[Rich Mollica]: level of narcism when you get

[Rich Mollica]: into kind of what I’m talking about, where it’s It’s more volatile.

[Rich Mollica]: I mean a lot of times. it’s

[Nick McGowan]: lot

[Rich Mollica]: just damage control. Honestly,

[Nick McGowan]: sure and what you’re talking about is vastly different financially

[Nick McGowan]: than somebody in from hollywood who is a narcissist and constantly has a camera on

[Nick McGowan]: them that’s got to be tough to be in the limelight and have all of that that’s a

[Nick McGowan]: whole different story i think really what we’re talking about are the people that

[Nick McGowan]: are either poor

[Nick McGowan]: or um middle class or it could be Rich Mollica people it’s poor minded you know they the

[Nick McGowan]: negative mindset and that fixed mindset of not being able to grow not being able to

[Nick McGowan]: get out so everybody else should drown with me and like you said the crab being

[Nick McGowan]: able to pull them back down

[Nick McGowan]: and for that one narcissist that’s listening to this show

[Nick McGowan]: you can go away now for the others that may think you’re a narcissist you’re not

[Nick McGowan]: you’re just a jerk at times and i i’m right there with you i get that

[Nick McGowan]: so how do you Rich Mollica help the people that are um on that path to be able to get out

[Nick McGowan]: of that whether they be in their teens or in their fifty sixties how do you work

[Nick McGowan]: with those people

[Rich Mollica]: so

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: the first thing is

[Nick McGowan]: what this

[Rich Mollica]: just non judgmental report.

[Rich Mollica]: I’m not going to judge

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Rich Mollica]: you, you know and I, I used to early

[Nick McGowan]: i used

[Rich Mollica]: in my counselling days, try to save people

[Nick McGowan]: try see

[Rich Mollica]: from the relationships and that’s a

[Rich Mollica]: disaster.

[Nick McGowan]: as

[Rich Mollica]: Um.

[Nick McGowan]: to go

[Rich Mollica]: I just let them know I’m here, Let

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rich Mollica]: them know they have options. Mirror back

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rich Mollica]: to them. You know what I see in them of value

[Nick McGowan]: know what i about

[Rich Mollica]: you know, try

[Nick McGowan]: no i

[Rich Mollica]: to build. you know, a different mirror of yourself. you know, look at what you

[Rich Mollica]: accomplish, look at what you survived,

[Rich Mollica]: you know, Um,

[Nick McGowan]: help

[Rich Mollica]: those kind of

[Nick McGowan]: it kind of

[Rich Mollica]: things. Um, you’re handing only household and

[Nick McGowan]: household

[Rich Mollica]: three children and he hasn’t worked in

[Nick McGowan]: yes one

[Rich Mollica]: ten years.

[Rich Mollica]: Um.

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Rich Mollica]: that’s amazing.

[Rich Mollica]: you know. So those kind of

[Nick McGowan]: kinds of water resource

[Rich Mollica]: offering resources. Uh, just trying

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: to build outside

[Nick McGowan]: outside

[Rich Mollica]: connection without threatening it.

[Nick McGowan]: re

[Rich Mollica]: Because if you threaten it, it just turtles up. You know the person

[Nick McGowan]: christy what class

[Rich Mollica]: when the narcisist or the abuser feels threatened. Um, and the person’s not

[Nick McGowan]: course it’s not

[Rich Mollica]: ready yet to jump.

[Rich Mollica]: Um, then you just get cut out. and that happened to

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Rich Mollica]: me twenty times before I realized this isn’t the way to navigate this.

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: so how did you get through that or just was it a matter of numbers game or the

[Nick McGowan]: twentieth time you slapped yourself in the face and went got it

[Rich Mollica]: Yeah, at just seeing it and

[Nick McGowan]: see

[Rich Mollica]: then

[Rich Mollica]: trying to

[Nick McGowan]: trying to

[Rich Mollica]: just be the Re. the connection you know, like I, if you’re with them forever, I love

[Rich Mollica]: you. I’m here with you. Support you. whatever

[Nick McGowan]: for

[Rich Mollica]: you decide, giving them autonomy which they have anyway, you know, but affirming it,

[Rich Mollica]: Um.

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rich Mollica]: I had

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Rich Mollica]: a a woman who was being severely beaten,

[Nick McGowan]: have

[Rich Mollica]: Um, and

[Nick McGowan]: well

[Rich Mollica]: almost killed while pregnant, Um, and this happened to her

[Nick McGowan]: that

[Rich Mollica]: multiple times.

[Rich Mollica]: she got out

[Nick McGowan]: see i once

[Rich Mollica]: once. I helped her get out and she ended up, you know, after she had the child going

[Rich Mollica]: back.

[Rich Mollica]: Because and know I want my.

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Rich Mollica]: I want my baby to

[Nick McGowan]: one you have moms

[Rich Mollica]: have a father, you know, and he’s talking different,

[Rich Mollica]: and then year

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Rich Mollica]: later, Uh, the

[Rich Mollica]: abuse got worse. It always escalates and she came back. Um, because this was a safe

[Nick McGowan]: um not

[Rich Mollica]: relationship for her. She know I wasn’t

[Nick McGowan]: well i was

[Rich Mollica]: trying to control her. She know I wasn’t trying

[Nick McGowan]: i was country

[Rich Mollica]: to shame her or take advantage of her in any way, and now

[Nick McGowan]: and how

[Rich Mollica]: I’m extremely proud

[Nick McGowan]: rallies

[Rich Mollica]: that you know she’s a single mom raising her son.

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: Um is going back to college. Has a great job,

[Nick McGowan]: call jobs

[Rich Mollica]: Um.

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Rich Mollica]: but it’s it’s

[Nick McGowan]: because it’s it’s just

[Rich Mollica]: It’s chestnut checkers. For sure.

[Nick McGowan]: you’ve gone through a lot of stuff and you’ve helped a lot of people through a lot

[Nick McGowan]: of things as well are there any major

[Nick McGowan]: points in life or situations that you can look back at and say wow that was a

[Nick McGowan]: moment in time that changed me

[Rich Mollica]: Yeah, um,

[Nick McGowan]: yeah um

[Rich Mollica]: I can think of several hu,

[Nick McGowan]: else

[Rich Mollica]: when I was my first, Uh,

[Nick McGowan]: well i just we first so

[Rich Mollica]: I’ll give you a few of these in whichever you like.

[Rich Mollica]: Um,

[Rich Mollica]: I was sober for about a year

[Nick McGowan]: i was sued about you

[Rich Mollica]: and my mother was in one hospital, psychotic, tied to a bed.

[Rich Mollica]: My grandmother fell and her feet were touching her back. When she fell. She was in

[Rich Mollica]: Taylor hospital.

[Rich Mollica]: I was going back and forth from both, and I

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Rich Mollica]: got fired from my telemarketing job because I was missing too much time.

[Rich Mollica]: and that voice of

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: you know you you. You’re an idiot for thinking that you could do different. Go back.

[Rich Mollica]: you know Wdy schmuck, like, what are you do? in this war

[Rich Mollica]: was screaming

[Nick McGowan]: singers yeah

[Rich Mollica]: and I leaned into prayer.

[Nick McGowan]: where

[Rich Mollica]: I leaned into my support

[Rich Mollica]: and that ended up being

[Rich Mollica]: in in a our

[Nick McGowan]: you know like

[Rich Mollica]: crises and our our greatest

[Rich Mollica]: obstacles lie our opportunities,

[Nick McGowan]: bring sauce

[Rich Mollica]: and my mother and grandmother started to talk again. They hadn’t spoken since my dad

[Rich Mollica]: died.

[Rich Mollica]: I got ‘ both back and I ended up getting a job at a rehab.

[Rich Mollica]: Um. I didn’t think I was good enough to do that work, but a friend said, Hey,

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Rich Mollica]: just give it a shot. You have enough clean time, and that became the next

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Rich Mollica]: of twenty three years of my life. If I never hit

[Nick McGowan]: i never

[Rich Mollica]: that ho time,

[Nick McGowan]: time

[Rich Mollica]: you know, I never

[Nick McGowan]: i never

[Rich Mollica]: would have broken through,

[Rich Mollica]: So so

[Nick McGowan]: so so it’s about

[Rich Mollica]: you know, Buddhist call it radical acceptance. You know, Christians call it carrying

[Rich Mollica]: across. Just looking at the obstacle as the way,

[Rich Mollica]: Um, and just taking it a minute an hour a day at a time

[Rich Mollica]: You, you get

[Rich Mollica]: blessings. I got blessings that I never

[Nick McGowan]: yeah was my mo

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Rich Mollica]: could have that I never would

[Nick McGowan]: i don’t

[Rich Mollica]: have found in in status. ▁quo.

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: I never would have found

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Rich Mollica]: in just lazy days. Now they were my best

[Nick McGowan]: my message

[Rich Mollica]: uh waymakers

[Rich Mollica]: When I was

[Nick McGowan]: when i was i

[Rich Mollica]: at the rehab for two years,

[Rich Mollica]: Um, we lost five kids,

[Nick McGowan]: awesome what

[Rich Mollica]: Uh to overdose, car accidents

[Nick McGowan]: ac

[Rich Mollica]: and suicide,

[Nick McGowan]: that

[Rich Mollica]: and

[Rich Mollica]: I didn’t know

[Rich Mollica]: how to cope with that.

[Rich Mollica]: Um,

[Rich Mollica]: I loved the kids I worked with. I looked at

[Nick McGowan]: i want

[Rich Mollica]: them as as my family at

[Nick McGowan]: now

[Rich Mollica]: the time. I very much, you know, counsellors, to say, I over identified. I loved them

[Rich Mollica]: and I lost

[Nick McGowan]: yeah that’s like

[Rich Mollica]: five of them, and then they closed down our unit,

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Rich Mollica]: so

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: there wasn’t even

[Nick McGowan]: it wasn’t

[Rich Mollica]: a You know, I can double press now I can. I can take this

[Nick McGowan]: it

[Rich Mollica]: energy out on helping the next kid.

[Nick McGowan]: years

[Rich Mollica]: Um,

[Nick McGowan]: i don’t know

[Rich Mollica]: and the same thing

[Nick McGowan]: see

[Rich Mollica]: that you know, I just had to

[Rich Mollica]: press into my supports, press into prayer, or press into positivity,

[Rich Mollica]: And that ended up uh, creating a resilience in me and a passion in me. That’s

[Rich Mollica]: sustainable. That could have destroyed me.

[Nick McGowan]: let’s just see

[Rich Mollica]: Um. and I think it could destroy anybody. Um. The only reason it didn’t is because

[Rich Mollica]: I, I pressed into the things that transform suffering into meaning.

[Nick McGowan]: how did you get to that

[Nick McGowan]: in that tough time

[Nick McGowan]: to be able to understand that i gotta press into this

[Rich Mollica]: I think it helps a lot when it’s survival.

[Nick McGowan]: maybe most of while most

[Rich Mollica]: Because I knew at that point

[Rich Mollica]: you know. Um, a lot of people

[Nick McGowan]: what about

[Rich Mollica]: talk about. I’m thinking like Coral, Young and and others, Um. Marcus

[Nick McGowan]: one

[Rich Mollica]: Aralius, Um,

[Nick McGowan]: know

[Rich Mollica]: Talk about living

[Rich Mollica]: in your purpose and anything

[Nick McGowan]: i mo

[Rich Mollica]: other than that Is. it is a death is

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rich Mollica]: a,

[Rich Mollica]: you know is a negative thing. I knew. This is what you know. And I put it in terms of

[Rich Mollica]: God. I knew this is what Gotd called me to.

[Rich Mollica]: And if I retreated from it, I don’t know where I would have landed. You know. I think

[Rich Mollica]: it could have gotten

[Rich Mollica]: you know. really toxic. Um, and I know

[Nick McGowan]: i know

[Rich Mollica]: the things that helped me survive.

[Rich Mollica]: So it’s

[Rich Mollica]: it’s kind of like you know. Are you going to try to swim

[Nick McGowan]: so it’s it’s not

[Nick McGowan]: fre

[Rich Mollica]: or are you going to let

[Nick McGowan]: she

[Rich Mollica]: you know the enemy army kill you. You know, I guess

[Nick McGowan]: you don’t

[Rich Mollica]: I’ll try to Swe, you know, and uh, and it’s never failed me. It’s always brought

[Nick McGowan]: to war

[Rich Mollica]: me to

[Rich Mollica]: Un. even though I don’t

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Rich Mollica]: like it. I don’t like what happens when I lose people. I’m angry at reality.

[Rich Mollica]: Um.

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Rich Mollica]: but that is how I know

[Nick McGowan]: that’s not

[Rich Mollica]: how to negotiate life on its own terms,

[Rich Mollica]: Um. avoiding it. Uh, you know, being resentful at it doesn’t do anything but steal me

[Rich Mollica]: from my purpose.

[Nick McGowan]: is that the thing that you hold on to when that stuff happens now that you can lean

[Nick McGowan]: back on to and go oh i’m good just keep pressing on

[Rich Mollica]: Yeah, and it’s not. It’s not like a pressing on in the like, the John Wayne sense of

[Rich Mollica]: like, and I’m going to pull my boot straps up and walk into the village. It’s it

[Rich Mollica]: really is

[Rich Mollica]: like opening myself up

[Nick McGowan]: cell phone

[Rich Mollica]: to how I

[Rich Mollica]: genu my genuine vulnerability, my genuine pain.

[Nick McGowan]: how it what’s it

[Rich Mollica]: To you know, a trusted community

[Rich Mollica]: and to the God I learn to trust.

[Rich Mollica]: Um, and looking at it in reality

[Rich Mollica]: ill procrastinate for three days. I’ll watch

[Nick McGowan]: the color

[Rich Mollica]: Netflix. I’ll eat too much pizza, andin three days and I’m like, All right. Are

[Nick McGowan]: watch that so

[Nick McGowan]: f

[Rich Mollica]: we going to? we going to do this for the next forty years, or

[Nick McGowan]: years

[Rich Mollica]: or are we going to start doing what gives us life and what’s going to heal this?

[Nick McGowan]: hey

[Nick McGowan]: yeah man to be aware of that

[Nick McGowan]: it can easily turn in from three days to three months and i think we’ve all been

[Nick McGowan]: there in some way shape no pon intended and or form

[Nick McGowan]: you know we’ve all been in different spots like that it’s asking ourselves that

[Nick McGowan]: question and actually having the bolls to be able to say hold up it’s been seventy

[Nick McGowan]: two hours i’m putting a lot of crap in my system am i gonna stop now or am i going

[Nick McGowan]: to keep doing this and man i would not want to be in that spot where you go i’m

[Nick McGowan]: gonna keep doing this and just continue to make bad decisions yet we’ve all been

[Nick McGowan]: there and we’ve all continued to do that sort of stuff so when that sort of stuff

[Nick McGowan]: creeps up now or even with people you’re working with what sort of tips or you know

[Nick McGowan]: takeaways do you give them to be able to help in those moments

[Rich Mollica]: I mean, there’s a whole, Um.

[Nick McGowan]: um

[Rich Mollica]: I’ll give you a few things one.

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Rich Mollica]: Um, there’s a movement

[Rich Mollica]: called personal medicine, Uh, Pat Deagan started it. She was schizophrenic and is

[Nick McGowan]: just what you christmas

[Rich Mollica]: diagnosed schizophrenic and she was told you’ll never get a doctorate and she said

[Rich Mollica]: Well, I’m prov

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: you wrong, Got a doctorate and created a worldwide system of personal medicine for

[Rich Mollica]: people

[Nick McGowan]: she

[Rich Mollica]: who struggle with depression and anxiety psychosis,

[Rich Mollica]: You know, get your

[Rich Mollica]: get your tool belt. Make your list of personal medicine. What gives me life, And you

[Rich Mollica]: gotta train in

[Nick McGowan]: don a

[Rich Mollica]: the off Seaon, you gotta. you gotta do it habitually,

[Rich Mollica]: Uh, so that it, it builds a a circuit in your brain so that you know what. When you’re

[Rich Mollica]: punched, you know if your first um reaction

[Nick McGowan]: oh yeah

[Rich Mollica]: is to drop your hands and say please don’t hit me. you’re go get hurt. you know, but

[Rich Mollica]: if

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rich Mollica]: you train something else in,

[Rich Mollica]: then that’s what comes

[Nick McGowan]: bass

[Rich Mollica]: out. you know. put your hands up. Um.

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rich Mollica]: So for me

[Rich Mollica]: it’s that instead of I’m gonna numb this, it’s I’m goingnna call somebody

[Nick McGowan]: so not so

[Rich Mollica]: instead of I’m going

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: to isolate, it’s I gotta be in the sunlight even though I feel like a vampire right

[Rich Mollica]: now, you know. It’s just

[Rich Mollica]: giving myself over to the things you know. the kind of music I listen to. There’s

[Rich Mollica]: times for

[Rich Mollica]: Johnny Cash and boy, there’s times, Johnny. and not working for me. You know, we need

[Nick McGowan]: s or not

[Rich Mollica]: some steevie wonder get. get the positivity

[Nick McGowan]: positive

[Rich Mollica]: up a little bit. Um,

[Nick McGowan]: know

[Rich Mollica]: another,

[Nick McGowan]: other

[Rich Mollica]: another thing I’ll

[Nick McGowan]: i recommend

[Rich Mollica]: recommend for you and for any of your listeners. there’s a book

[Rich Mollica]: called The War of art.

[Rich Mollica]: Uh, it’s by the guy who wrote Bagger Vances,

[Rich Mollica]: and he talks about

[Nick McGowan]: home

[Rich Mollica]: when we avoid our I,

[Nick McGowan]: we are

[Rich Mollica]: when we avoid our calling or purpose. the negative things that come and emanate from

[Rich Mollica]: that.

[Rich Mollica]: Um,

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rich Mollica]: you know, So remember what is my life mission.

[Rich Mollica]: you know, Be gentle with myself. I’m not trying to be special forces. But what gives

[Rich Mollica]: me purpose?

[Rich Mollica]: And how do I organize my life

[Nick McGowan]: my

[Rich Mollica]: so that it

[Nick McGowan]: she nice

[Rich Mollica]: has that you know, and for me I

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rich Mollica]: can rattle it off. Know your mission statement. You know, I’m here to serve my family.

[Rich Mollica]: I’m here to serve my community. I’m here to serve the people that nobody cares about.

[Rich Mollica]: That’s it, you know, Uh, personal

[Nick McGowan]: what was your

[Rich Mollica]: to me and my faith. I’m here to show every

[Nick McGowan]: that basketball

[Rich Mollica]: one God’s love and faithfulness,

[Rich Mollica]: family community,

[Rich Mollica]: people who think nobody cares

[Rich Mollica]: and F. Buddhist, call it a Sanga

[Nick McGowan]: why school so

[Rich Mollica]: Um.

[Rich Mollica]: you know twelve step

[Nick McGowan]: what the

[Rich Mollica]: groups. call it your support network.

[Rich Mollica]: find your little community

[Rich Mollica]: and make concentric circles. These are the three people that are in. You know you

[Rich Mollica]: might have to,

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rich Mollica]: you know. Take a while to build them. These are the people. ten people that are next

[Rich Mollica]: circle out. these are the people I just trust

[Nick McGowan]: she was

[Rich Mollica]: generally and then everybody else.

[Nick McGowan]: everybody

[Rich Mollica]: Um,

[Rich Mollica]: if

[Rich Mollica]: if you had someone you

[Nick McGowan]: less

[Rich Mollica]: didn’t trust with your child,

[Rich Mollica]: you would not leave your child around them. But we trust people with our hearts all

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Rich Mollica]: the time that we don’t trust,

[Rich Mollica]: so

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: ordering our supports and our lives around healthy relationships. Um,

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rich Mollica]: it’s transformative

[Rich Mollica]: it. It minimizes

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rich Mollica]: wounding’s life’s hard enough,

[Rich Mollica]: and it maximizes the positive influence in our lives so that we can become

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rich Mollica]: who we want to be, and live in the relationships we want to be. In

[Nick McGowan]: so for the people that are going through wondering

[Nick McGowan]: is this person or this situation worth it for me to stick around or for me to allow

[Nick McGowan]: them to stick around what do you suggest for them

[Rich Mollica]: one question

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Rich Mollica]: I always ask

[Nick McGowan]: yes

[Rich Mollica]: is if this was

[Nick McGowan]: it’s it’s

[Rich Mollica]: your niece,

[Rich Mollica]: your cousin, your

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Rich Mollica]: best friend,

[Rich Mollica]: and they called you

[Nick McGowan]: people

[Rich Mollica]: up and they said

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: he beat me three times.

[Nick McGowan]: honest

[Rich Mollica]: Now he’s not allowing me to have my own debit card. He controls the money, and he

[Rich Mollica]: cheated twice.

[Nick McGowan]: see watch

[Rich Mollica]: What would you say to them?

[Nick McGowan]: see

[Rich Mollica]: you know? get outside of it

[Nick McGowan]: sorry

[Rich Mollica]: and look at somebody you value

[Rich Mollica]: Because usually we don’t value ourselves the same.

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: What would you say to that

[Nick McGowan]: see persons what about

[Rich Mollica]: person? Now you might not be ready to change to day, and I maed you for that, but know

[Rich Mollica]: what you know. don’t manipulate your own thinking. You know. if you wouldn’t want it

[Rich Mollica]: for

[Rich Mollica]: Kimmy,

[Rich Mollica]: then why is it okay for you? Why are you O okay to be abused?

[Rich Mollica]: So that’s one question.

[Nick McGowan]: so that’s one question

[Rich Mollica]: I’ll as us, just to kind of

[Nick McGowan]: this

[Rich Mollica]: to change the person’s perception a bit. Now

[Rich Mollica]: you know, I will always say. Um,

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: If you choose this, you’re allowed to choose

[Nick McGowan]: lot

[Rich Mollica]: this. But what if it never changes? What if this is

[Rich Mollica]: what it is? What if you’re signing up for this continually? Are you okay with that? If

[Rich Mollica]: you are, that’s fine.

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Rich Mollica]: Oh no. I.

[Nick McGowan]: no i don’t ask as you

[Rich Mollica]: You know he has to. He has to stop cheating or she has to. you know, stop

[Nick McGowan]: you know stop like mo you s whatever

[Rich Mollica]: stealing my mom’s pills or whatever it is? You know this has to change.

[Rich Mollica]: Is there any reason I think it’s go?

[Rich Mollica]: How long has this been the pattern?

[Rich Mollica]: You know, if you’re going to sign up for it, that’s fine. I got you back. but I think

[Rich Mollica]: you have to expect

[Rich Mollica]: that this is what it is.

[Rich Mollica]: So those are something.

[Nick McGowan]: had some good stuff right there

[Nick McGowan]: out of uh out of all the stuff that you hear

[Nick McGowan]: and all of the topics and situations that people are going through

[Nick McGowan]: what have you been seeing that has kind of been a pattern since uh the pandemic

[Rich Mollica]: Ah, I

[Nick McGowan]: a excuse

[Rich Mollica]: see a few. Um addiction went bananas after the pandemic mental health issues.

[Nick McGowan]: open

[Rich Mollica]: I mean we just know we’re

[Nick McGowan]: stuff

[Rich Mollica]: social creatures,

[Rich Mollica]: Um, babies that are abused do better than babies that are isolated and have their

[Rich Mollica]: needs met, but aren’t connected to any onee.

[Rich Mollica]: now,

[Nick McGowan]: no so so

[Rich Mollica]: So you saw a mental health go up. You saw add diiction

[Nick McGowan]: s

[Rich Mollica]: go up. I really worry. I see a lot

[Nick McGowan]: see water

[Rich Mollica]: of people uh, making money online and I’m not mad at that, but like the only fan

[Rich Mollica]: stuff, and

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: with my background in human trafficking, I’m not talking about the person that’s

[Nick McGowan]: talking about person is decided since as a child

[Rich Mollica]: deciding to make money on their own

[Rich Mollica]: that. I’m not

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Rich Mollica]: deonnizing that or shaming that.

[Rich Mollica]: I just know

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Rich Mollica]: there are people behind the cameras often that are not

[Nick McGowan]: be better

[Rich Mollica]: choosing this on their own. They’re doing it for drug money.

[Rich Mollica]: They’re doing it. Uh, because they’re being threatened.

[Nick McGowan]: but

[Rich Mollica]: That you know now that the

[Rich Mollica]: moratorium on evictions is up,

[Nick McGowan]: know just

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: You know they have a landlord or somebody letting them a crash there, but saying you

[Rich Mollica]: know, take off your clothes and you can stay here.

[Rich Mollica]: Um, that’s all

[Nick McGowan]: that’s all

[Rich Mollica]: human trafficking.

[Rich Mollica]: Ah, it’s

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rich Mollica]: any

[Rich Mollica]: any time.

[Nick McGowan]: that are

[Rich Mollica]: There’ is a financial issue, or there’s a social

[Nick McGowan]: six

[Rich Mollica]: upheaval that leaves some people hurt.

[Rich Mollica]: There’s somebody there to monetize that and that definitely

[Nick McGowan]: and i

[Rich Mollica]: happened here. It happened with human trafficking.

[Nick McGowan]: travel

[Rich Mollica]: It happened with drug addiction.

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: Um. it just helped people gain more control

[Rich Mollica]: and have more avenues to profit off people suffering

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: and with the people that I work with.

[Nick McGowan]: that i work with

[Rich Mollica]: Ah, you know getting people

[Nick McGowan]: it

[Rich Mollica]: into rehab,

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rich Mollica]: Um,

[Rich Mollica]: is one thing, but trying to get people into trauma

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: informed or trauma specific

[Nick McGowan]: city

[Rich Mollica]: programs, because a lot of times

[Rich Mollica]: it’s so much more complicated if if you’ve been trafficed or if it as a child you were

[Nick McGowan]: some other prices homes

[Rich Mollica]: sexually abused Sign, you know,

[Nick McGowan]: you know

[Rich Mollica]: it just affects your recovery,

[Nick McGowan]: just come

[Rich Mollica]: and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rich Mollica]: you know I try

[Nick McGowan]: you know it’s like

[Rich Mollica]: to get people into

[Nick McGowan]: she

[Rich Mollica]: both of those uh systems, but their separate systems, usually,

[Nick McGowan]: sisters sisters

[Rich Mollica]: especially

[Nick McGowan]: especially

[Rich Mollica]: if you don’t have good insurance or the ability to private pay.

[Rich Mollica]: Um,

[Rich Mollica]: you know that stuff doesn’t get touched.

[Rich Mollica]: Um,

[Rich Mollica]: you know so and just a story on that,

[Nick McGowan]: i say s usually she

[Rich Mollica]: Um, I had a woman who went into her drug and alcohol counsellor. She had medicaid and

[Rich Mollica]: she was African American

[Rich Mollica]: and she had a

[Rich Mollica]: flashback immediately prior to going to this woman of her father molesting her

[Nick McGowan]: that last he used lot swimmings

[Nick McGowan]: her mother was

[Rich Mollica]: and it was visceral. You know, it was tactile

[Nick McGowan]: her

[Rich Mollica]: feelings and she went into this woman. Absolutely

[Rich Mollica]: just heightened fight flight

[Nick McGowan]: what question

[Rich Mollica]: response, you know, unable to be comfortable in her own skin, and the woman said,

[Rich Mollica]: Listen, we’re going to put that in a box.

[Nick McGowan]: just bo

[Rich Mollica]: I need to do your paperwork.

[Rich Mollica]: That’s the difference

[Nick McGowan]: that’s

[Rich Mollica]: between somebody that has medicaid or county funding for their treatments day, and

[Rich Mollica]: somebody that’s

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: able to go to Bettyford clinic, where they would have appropriately

[Rich Mollica]: helped her de ecalate

[Nick McGowan]: that’s

[Rich Mollica]: process the trauma.

[Rich Mollica]: Um,

[Nick McGowan]: you know a lot of

[Rich Mollica]: so a lot of what I’m trying to do, especially

[Rich Mollica]: post the panthemic is is try to

[Nick McGowan]: especially ja

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Rich Mollica]: piecemeal what people need, but don’t have the resource for.

[Rich Mollica]: and thankfully there are different groups I can almost do that with, But it’s uh. It’s

[Rich Mollica]: challenge

[Nick McGowan]: i wish we could figure out the one thing that could just solve all you know just

[Nick McGowan]: make it all go away but you and i both know that that’s actually not gonna solve

[Nick McGowan]: the problem

[Nick McGowan]: it would immediately fix some of that sy pain but it’s not gonna actually fix the

[Nick McGowan]: problem

[Nick McGowan]: what’s the thing though that could fix the problem and i know that it’s people and

[Nick McGowan]: it’s the people but what’s the main thing that you think is kind of a lesson for us

[Nick McGowan]: to take from this whole debacle that’s happened

[Rich Mollica]: in terms of,

[Rich Mollica]: I think I say, In terms of a lot,

[Rich Mollica]: treatment needs to do the things that we know work,

[Rich Mollica]: even if it’s expensive and even if it cuts into a profit margin,

[Rich Mollica]: and that’s hard

[Nick McGowan]: that

[Rich Mollica]: and nobody really wants to do that.

[Rich Mollica]: Um. so

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rich Mollica]: in lieu of that,

[Rich Mollica]: we have

[Nick McGowan]: how

[Rich Mollica]: to be very grass roots

[Nick McGowan]: restaurants

[Rich Mollica]: and people that have

[Rich Mollica]: suffered in these ways, Uh, coming out and saying I was,

[Nick McGowan]: say she

[Rich Mollica]: I’m I was molested.

[Nick McGowan]: i just wasn’t

[Rich Mollica]: You know when I make that

[Nick McGowan]: i message not

[Rich Mollica]: statement because I am a survivor of child molestation,

[Rich Mollica]: It has.

[Nick McGowan]: that’s

[Rich Mollica]: It has an impact on people,

[Rich Mollica]: especially

[Nick McGowan]: supposed to ma

[Rich Mollica]: men. You know, because we tend not to share that,

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rich Mollica]: so being able

[Nick McGowan]: so sh do

[Rich Mollica]: to share that experience strength and hope,

[Rich Mollica]: Um

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rich Mollica]: through grassroots

[Nick McGowan]: christmas

[Rich Mollica]: opportunities, Um, you know creating groups where

[Nick McGowan]: she

[Rich Mollica]: men, women survivors, in general Transmun can come together

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rich Mollica]: and process this ourselves. Um. being willing to share resources on line

[Nick McGowan]: as one

[Rich Mollica]: that aren’t

[Nick McGowan]: that are my class

[Rich Mollica]: monetized or that aren’t monetized

[Nick McGowan]: he

[Rich Mollica]: by the person we’re helping so that we can just get it and use it. I love what you’re

[Rich Mollica]: doing

[Rich Mollica]: because

[Nick McGowan]: it

[Rich Mollica]: you’re trying

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Rich Mollica]: to help men learn how to be resilient

[Rich Mollica]: without being false.

[Rich Mollica]: Um, how to actually

[Nick McGowan]: i see

[Rich Mollica]: you know, be empowered and know their power without the facade in the

[Rich Mollica]: mask.

[Nick McGowan]: south

[Rich Mollica]: And I think that’s a lot

[Nick McGowan]: that’s

[Rich Mollica]: of. just as a culture.

[Rich Mollica]: Uh, what men need to heal. It’s not about being a tough guy. it’s not you know.

[Nick McGowan]: outside

[Rich Mollica]: I was. I told you, I was raised to be a

[Rich Mollica]: sociopath. That was a man. You know, it’s about

[Nick McGowan]: six

[Nick McGowan]: stuff

[Rich Mollica]: dropping the masks, sharing the

[Nick McGowan]: necessary

[Rich Mollica]: vulnerability and realizing there is

[Nick McGowan]: was

[Rich Mollica]: more strength than that

[Rich Mollica]: in sharing

[Rich Mollica]: vulnerability with other men so that we can all heal collectively

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Rich Mollica]: and share in each other’s strength than running from it and acting like a tough guy.

[Nick McGowan]: i appreciate that i appreciate the thought and the encouragement with it um i think

[Nick McGowan]: you’re absolutely right that there are things that we all men women

[Nick McGowan]: doesn’t matter race color gender any of it we all wear masks at times and i truly

[Nick McGowan]: believe it’s about being authentic um you know i often say to people that i work

[Nick McGowan]: with

[Nick McGowan]: look you have an open door or i have an open door and all of this is open for us to

[Nick McGowan]: talk about but if you’re just complaining over and over i’m gonna call you out on

[Nick McGowan]: it

[Rich Mollica]: Mhm.

[Nick McGowan]: but if you’re venting you’re getting through things then great because sometimes

[Nick McGowan]: you need that you need to go through it talk through it and then be able to move

[Nick McGowan]: move on from there

[Nick McGowan]: uh and i think that again men and women need to be able to have those conversations

[Nick McGowan]: and need to be able to hear that things are okay i think we also all need to

[Nick McGowan]: understand that we’re not unique you’re not special this stuff happens some people

[Nick McGowan]: may hear your story and go that’s nothing other people might hear your story and

[Nick McGowan]: just cry and think how are you even alive anymore

[Nick McGowan]: all of us work through our own things our own ways so the people that are on that

[Nick McGowan]: path that are working toward a path to self mastery how do you or what suggestions

[Nick McGowan]: would you give them to be mindful of their mindset and what’s the thing that you

[Nick McGowan]: would suggest that they take on that path with them

[Rich Mollica]: Vict mentality

[Nick McGowan]: how old

[Rich Mollica]: is is

[Rich Mollica]: something that can keep somebody in a really bad spot

[Rich Mollica]: with their legitimate pain.

[Rich Mollica]: but it denies

[Nick McGowan]: what do you

[Rich Mollica]: part of the truth that you’re stronger

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: that you’re able to

[Rich Mollica]: achieve healing. That you’ able to achieve mastery, as you put it,

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rich Mollica]: so be very,

[Rich Mollica]: very

[Rich Mollica]: aware. when you. I remember thinking you know, I didn’t get the good clothes. I didn’t

[Nick McGowan]: very weird

[Rich Mollica]: get the perfect parents. I, I didn’t get the rule book for how to live

[Rich Mollica]: and it’s fine to grieve that,

[Nick McGowan]: great

[Rich Mollica]: but it’s not

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Rich Mollica]: okay to make it into This is why I can’. You know. this is why I can’t succeed. This

[Rich Mollica]: is why I can’t have a good relationship. This is why I,

[Nick McGowan]: ch

[Rich Mollica]: It’s not

[Nick McGowan]: not

[Rich Mollica]: then. you’re just

[Nick McGowan]: ba

[Rich Mollica]: allowing yourself to be victimized more.

[Rich Mollica]: You’re allowing something that happened in the past to seal your present,

[Rich Mollica]: and and I think a thing to really solidify in your

[Nick McGowan]: funny

[Rich Mollica]: own being is, I’ll be

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Rich Mollica]: damned if I’m go to

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: let them.

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rich Mollica]: you know, people that are out

[Nick McGowan]: but how do my w

[Rich Mollica]: of my life. Now people that are dead, steal my present

[Nick McGowan]: one

[Rich Mollica]: life. It

[Nick McGowan]: watch

[Rich Mollica]: ain’t gonna happen

[Rich Mollica]: so I can

[Nick McGowan]: so she’s really

[Rich Mollica]: grieve it. I can process it, but it

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Rich Mollica]: can’t. It can’t steal my present,

[Rich Mollica]: because I lost enough

[Nick McGowan]: a

[Rich Mollica]: and I, I refuse and know it’s like gandolph. You know you shall not pass. you know,

[Rich Mollica]: like I, claiming my my life now,

[Rich Mollica]: Um, and

[Nick McGowan]: you know personal what

[Rich Mollica]: focusing on what you can do, you know a lot

[Nick McGowan]: you know a lot of time

[Rich Mollica]: of times working with somebody

[Rich Mollica]: with an addiction. In particular, you know somebody willll say, I want to do anything

[Rich Mollica]: to change my life. I, well, why don’t we get you

[Nick McGowan]: one

[Rich Mollica]: into treatment? Well, not that,

[Nick McGowan]: i take

[Rich Mollica]: anything but that. When will we go to twelve seven minute?

[Nick McGowan]: so will happen with anything else

[Rich Mollica]: Any? Well, not that, but anything else. All right, Why don’t we

[Nick McGowan]: or one

[Rich Mollica]: you know, get you out patient.

[Nick McGowan]: out

[Rich Mollica]: I, not not that.

[Rich Mollica]: Focus on

[Nick McGowan]: what all what

[Rich Mollica]: what opportunities you have, what options you have to day,

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rich Mollica]: and don’t don’t push him till to morrow, ’cause it’ll never

[Nick McGowan]: don

[Rich Mollica]: happen.

[Rich Mollica]: This is the only day you have to

[Nick McGowan]: you

[Rich Mollica]: live in. So whatever options you have,

[Rich Mollica]: you know, choose which one you want,

[Nick McGowan]: supposed to water

[Rich Mollica]: But if you don’t you’re choosing what you’ve had,

[Rich Mollica]: and if you’re tired of it like I was tired of mine,

[Nick McGowan]: fire

[Rich Mollica]: Um’

[Rich Mollica]: choose something else.

[Nick McGowan]: seven

[Rich Mollica]: If you know, try whatever

[Nick McGowan]: find different

[Rich Mollica]: it is, Go to treatment. Get a counselor, Um, you know, go

[Nick McGowan]: she

[Rich Mollica]: to the meeting, you know, read the inspirational literature. Put my applications out

[Rich Mollica]: on line. See if I get a bite.

[Rich Mollica]: Do something

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: to day

[Rich Mollica]: that will

[Nick McGowan]: ba

[Rich Mollica]: potentially

[Nick McGowan]: country

[Rich Mollica]: change your position.

[Nick McGowan]: c f

[Rich Mollica]: If you’re not happy with it. There’ll be resistance

[Nick McGowan]: systems that i

[Rich Mollica]: to that. You’ll feel anxiety about

[Nick McGowan]: design development

[Rich Mollica]: that. You’ll try to avoid it in every which way you can

[Rich Mollica]: push past

[Nick McGowan]: you

[Rich Mollica]: that. Send out the

[Nick McGowan]: said

[Rich Mollica]: resume

[Rich Mollica]: and I’ll make the

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Rich Mollica]: phone call.

[Rich Mollica]: You know if we

[Rich Mollica]: seize the moment

[Nick McGowan]: see

[Rich Mollica]: now to do that thing, because that can change

[Nick McGowan]: like you say

[Rich Mollica]: your entire trajectory.

[Rich Mollica]: Um,

[Nick McGowan]: well

[Rich Mollica]: I forget the question,

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Rich Mollica]: but you know those are some things. Other things

[Nick McGowan]: those things that i say you know mind

[Rich Mollica]: that I’ll say, Um, be mindful of yourself. Talk. write it down.

[Nick McGowan]: so you know as long as

[Rich Mollica]: you know it’s It’s like walking through a supermarket. You don’t hear the music.

[Rich Mollica]: You know. you’re just walking in your own fog.

[Rich Mollica]: Um,

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: be aware of

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Rich Mollica]: the messages you’re telling yourself

[Rich Mollica]: and then change them. You know if your internal

[Rich Mollica]: messages are just stupid luggage. You say that why did you do

[Nick McGowan]: Christmas

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Rich Mollica]: that, or if your own internal messages are like, You know

[Nick McGowan]: about yourself

[Rich Mollica]: who do you think you are? You know who do you think you are even trying that? Stay in

[Rich Mollica]: your lane.

[Rich Mollica]: Write it down.

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Rich Mollica]: Become aware of it and then you can change the soundtrack.

[Rich Mollica]: You know, Most of those come

[Nick McGowan]: of us

[Rich Mollica]: from kids that were

[Nick McGowan]: he said just

[Rich Mollica]: mean to us. Family members.

[Nick McGowan]: stuff

[Rich Mollica]: that me purposefully

[Nick McGowan]: the most you

[Rich Mollica]: unintentionally gave us negative, poisonous thought processes,

[Nick McGowan]: process

[Rich Mollica]: become aware of them

[Rich Mollica]: and then switch it up.

[Nick McGowan]: that’s

[Rich Mollica]: You know, instead of why am I

[Nick McGowan]: one

[Rich Mollica]: so stupid?

[Rich Mollica]: you know,

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Rich Mollica]: I tried it

[Nick McGowan]: try

[Rich Mollica]: didn’t work. Here’s how I can

[Nick McGowan]: is all

[Rich Mollica]: modify. I gave myself

[Nick McGowan]: i gave myself

[Rich Mollica]: a rule. I can look stupid

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: doing something ten times.

[Rich Mollica]: You know. the first ten times

[Nick McGowan]: time

[Rich Mollica]: it’s okay for me to look like an absolutely ridiculous human being,

[Rich Mollica]: and by time eleven, I guarantee you I’m gonna have. I’m gonna have a grip on it. I’m

[Rich Mollica]: going to be able do it better.

[Rich Mollica]: Um,

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rich Mollica]: so not getting into the mindset

[Nick McGowan]: one

[Rich Mollica]: of perfectionism

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: or fear of failure. You know, accepting

[Rich Mollica]: failure is part of the learning process

[Nick McGowan]: seven for one

[Rich Mollica]: and not making myself bad for it. Michael Jordan

[Nick McGowan]: one

[Rich Mollica]: didn’t get picked. You know, another guy got

[Nick McGowan]: six

[Rich Mollica]: picked over him

[Rich Mollica]: and he didn’t make it into. Uh. Well, I guess I, I’m I just don’t have what it takes.

[Rich Mollica]: You know he made it into a. I’m

[Nick McGowan]: what school

[Rich Mollica]: going to hone my craft

[Nick McGowan]: like

[Rich Mollica]: until I’m better than

[Nick McGowan]: my

[Rich Mollica]: anybody else. I’ll never get. I’ll never be on the on the second line again ever.

[Rich Mollica]: You know, so

[Nick McGowan]: you know so

[Rich Mollica]: those are

[Nick McGowan]: who was in so

[Rich Mollica]: some things. Um

[Nick McGowan]: um

[Rich Mollica]: to put in the place.

[Nick McGowan]: place

[Rich Mollica]: Uh, looking for distorted thoughts,

[Nick McGowan]: why would you p dog

[Rich Mollica]: find people that you’re close enough to to

[Nick McGowan]: cell

[Rich Mollica]: say. hey,

[Rich Mollica]: you know, I thought

[Nick McGowan]: no I thought

[Rich Mollica]: you were mad at me yesterday or hey. I felt you were bored. I feel like I’m boring you

[Rich Mollica]: and

[Nick McGowan]: and i i have

[Rich Mollica]: I, I have. in trying to

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Rich Mollica]: see if

[Nick McGowan]: to see

[Rich Mollica]: my projections on other people

[Nick McGowan]: most

[Rich Mollica]: were accurate, I found out I was a hundred percent wrong, a hundred percent of the time

[Rich Mollica]: I was seeing

[Nick McGowan]: i see

[Rich Mollica]: in other people

[Rich Mollica]: what I felt about myself.

[Nick McGowan]: what i don’t know

[Rich Mollica]: So

[Nick McGowan]: so there are a couple things

[Rich Mollica]: that’s another thing with safe people.

[Nick McGowan]: c

[Rich Mollica]: Uh, that you can do to change your perceptions of reality,

[Nick McGowan]: dollars

[Rich Mollica]: your cognitive distortions.

[Nick McGowan]: that’s basically an episode in of itself

[Rich Mollica]: Yeah, yeah,

[Nick McGowan]: all of what you just dropped on us

[Nick McGowan]: all of what you just dropped on us

[Nick McGowan]: man

[Nick McGowan]: so thank you for that in on that note it has been an absolute pleasure to have you

[Nick McGowan]: with us today thank you for being here man i’m so thankful that you’ve been on the

[Nick McGowan]: show where can people find you you wanna share your details

[Rich Mollica]: sure. um.

[Rich Mollica]: I’m at Um,

[Nick McGowan]: ah

[Rich Mollica]: Saint John’s United Church-Christ Eastern Pennsylvania, Um, you can

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Rich Mollica]: find me on Uh tik to Facebook or linked in. It’s Rich Mollica or Rich Mollicaard, M. O, ▁l ▁l I, C. a

[Rich Mollica]: Um. you feel

[Rich Mollica]: free to reach out and I’ll throw this out there if anybody is ever in a situation

[Nick McGowan]: you know you and of course the out

[Rich Mollica]: where you need resources.

[Rich Mollica]: Um, contact me

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Rich Mollica]: on those, and I will get back to you as soon as possible,

[Nick McGowan]: a

[Rich Mollica]: or you can even reach me on my cell phone. six one, ▁zero eight, ▁zero, nine, nine,

[Rich Mollica]: six, four, One,

[Nick McGowan]: man i appreciate your heart and i appreciate that you care enough to be able to

[Nick McGowan]: share your information even your personal cell phone

[Nick McGowan]: um i can edit that out if you want me to if not I’m also going to leave this in

[Nick McGowan]: here so people can hear that you actually care to the point to just give out your

[Nick McGowan]: cell phone

[Rich Mollica]: totally good

[Nick McGowan]: so people that hear this don’t abuse that and understand that Rich Mollica has an

[Nick McGowan]: incredibly huge heart and we’ll actually do everything he can to be able to help

[Nick McGowan]: you so again Rich Mollica it’s been a pleasure to have you I appreciate you being with us

[Nick McGowan]: today and i look forward to speaking with you again soon

[Rich Mollica]: love and respect your brother. Thanks for having, me.

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