Becoming An Alley With Your Emotions Because They Are The Key To Understanding Where Your Thoughts Come From – Ep.060 – Lincoln Stoller

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Episode summary: Lincoln Stoller is very in tune with how our minds and perception work.

He studied brainwaves and was able to alter them, which changes how a person feels, but slightly enough that they cannot pinpoint the change. Changes include changing a slower person, changing their brainwaves, and now they feel the world has slowed down.

Now, we can do the same thing with our awareness and emotions. Everything is connected and can be changed.

Lincoln walks us through on broadening our minds and knowledge, so we can be in control of our feelings, thoughts, perceptions, and our lives. 

Guest Name & Bio:  Lincoln Stoller spent a decade each as a mountaineer, a physicist, an EEG brain training therapist, a hypnotherapist, two decades as a software entrepreneur, and now practices as a registered clinical counselor in Canada.

He’s authored six books on sleep, dreams, and learning. 

Lincoln Stoller

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[Nick McGowan]: Hey Lincoln welcome to the

show man how you doing

[Lincoln Stoller]: good great to see you

[Nick McGowan]: ah yeah nice to see you too

i’m glad that you’re here thank you for

[Nick McGowan]: reaching out about the show i reading

through your website and looking through some of

[Nick McGowan]: the stuff that you’ve gotten into and

i think there’s a lot that we’re goin

[Nick McGowan]: to be able to get into but

what jumping into your story to give us

[Nick McGowan]: a little bit of context who are

[Lincoln Stoller]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: you what do you do and maybe

something that most people don’t know about you

[Nick McGowan]: it’s a little odd or bizarre

[Lincoln Stoller]: well i think you know we all

think we’re sort of normal and over

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: the course of our lives we start

to realize that’s not entirely true so i’ve

[Lincoln Stoller]: started to realize

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know a lot of the strange


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: that have happened to me are

[Nick McGowan]: ah

[Lincoln Stoller]: because i’m strange in

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: other people’s eyes i continue to think

myself normal um

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: i think the origin of my strangeness

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: was my somewhat solitary childhood i had

a brother and sister so i thought i

[Lincoln Stoller]: was kind of average but they were

ten and twelve years older than me

[Nick McGowan]: wow

[Lincoln Stoller]: my parents were also sort of over

it so they were sort

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Lincoln Stoller]: of absent

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Lincoln Stoller]: yea they were the opposite of helicopter

they were submarine parents

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Lincoln Stoller]: i could never quite figure out where

they were

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Lincoln Stoller]: and they

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Lincoln Stoller]: didn’t pay much attention

[Nick McGowan]: uh yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: to me so i kind of wandered

around i wasn’t quite you know the wild

[Lincoln Stoller]: child living in the woods but i


[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: of felt i might as well have

been and that made me a kind of

[Lincoln Stoller]: odd person because i was always reaching

out to people on not entirely going on

[Lincoln Stoller]: to their wagon so that meant that

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know as kids were socialized in

school so that didn’t work very well i

[Lincoln Stoller]: was

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: rebellious and i guess my family made


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: a kind of adult for my age

so i i didn’t really connect with my

[Lincoln Stoller]: age group and course

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: i didn’t entirely connect with adults either

because i wasn’t one

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: and then you know i got involved

with mountaineering which i really liked because it

[Lincoln Stoller]: was a strange bunch of people going

exciting places and doing crazy things that we’re

[Lincoln Stoller]: very emotional

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: right i mean full of fear and

an exhilaration

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: and i did that for quite a

while and then i also wanted to be

[Lincoln Stoller]: as intellectual pretensions

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: so i got a ph d in

physics and that was interesting the whole

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: ph d processes one of the few

educational processes where you’re asked to actually do

[Lincoln Stoller]: something you know come up to meet

the bar of accomplishment rather than just filling

[Lincoln Stoller]: check

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: boxes and that gets very complicated because

the results of expectations and you know getting

[Lincoln Stoller]: on line with what’s going on and

i still wasn’t satisfied with what i knew

[Lincoln Stoller]: so i was involved with travel and

other cultures and now here i am like

[Lincoln Stoller]: all of us thinking that i’m normal

and that the world is strange and i

[Lincoln Stoller]: guess you have to say the world

is normal because that is the base line

[Lincoln Stoller]: and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: i think i’m coming to understand that

emotional person which is odd for a physicist

[Lincoln Stoller]: but then you know that’s why i’m

not a physist any more i’m a clinical

[Lincoln Stoller]: counselor and a hypnotherapist and i do

dream work in psychodelics therapy and dream works

[Lincoln Stoller]: and sygadelic and i write a lot


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: the subconscious and emotions because i have

the intellect side covered so most people don’t

[Lincoln Stoller]: know that i’m emotional because i’m so

intellectual i guess like i said it all

[Lincoln Stoller]: seems normal

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: to me but

[Nick McGowan]: m h

[Lincoln Stoller]: it’s really

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: valuable

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: to be a therapist because you start

to see what other people really think

[Nick McGowan]: a

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: you hear you hear their story ten

times and then you start to wonder how

[Lincoln Stoller]: come they telling me this for the

eleventh time how come they’re not doing something

[Lincoln Stoller]: about it

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: and you sort of at some point

you get down to it you know in

[Lincoln Stoller]: a

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: way that you wouldn’t get socially socially

you just hear their story over and over

[Lincoln Stoller]: again but as a therapist you’re allowed

to pry um m but even when i

[Lincoln Stoller]: do so people think i’m intellectual so

part of my current efforts to sort of

[Lincoln Stoller]: come out of the closet which is

an interesting metaphor because of you know the

[Lincoln Stoller]: sort of gay trans the whole thing

about closets i’m not into the gender fluidity

[Lincoln Stoller]: of these days because i think it’s

superficial into the um m subconscious closet not

[Lincoln Stoller]: the gender closet so i’d

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: like people to come out of their

subconscious closet i

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Lincoln Stoller]: don’t give it a ship about there

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know sexual

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: politics that’s

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: incidental to me and i think people

hide behind their gender politics like they hide

[Lincoln Stoller]: behind their other politics because it’s a

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: one step out from the social presentation

okay i want more with people and so

[Lincoln Stoller]: i’m trying to be more emotional anyway


[Nick McGowan]: m h

[Lincoln Stoller]: now

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: the question

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: one thing people know about me well

one thing you should know about me is

[Lincoln Stoller]: that very few people know anything about

me so there’s not too much to answer

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: i have like a circle of three

friends and i see them rarely and most

[Lincoln Stoller]: people you know know me from my

writings or you know

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: podcast

[Nick McGowan]: m so wait to unleash a lot

of things right there thank you for that

[Nick McGowan]: i think for the most part it’s

interesting where you were saying look my my

[Nick McGowan]: siblings were older and my parents are

done like that you were like they were

[Nick McGowan]: just over it and you know that

like i don’t know if that hit you

[Nick McGowan]: early on or like subconsciously you’re like

they’ve checked the fuck out there done but

[Nick McGowan]: to know that and understand that and

look at things differently you kind

[Lincoln Stoller]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: of took that character for your own

and you’re like this is who i’m going

[Nick McGowan]: to be and started to kind of

roll with it it’s even interesting that

[Lincoln Stoller]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: you bring up that people think themselves

to be normal because yeah i think for

[Nick McGowan]: the most part you’re right i think

a lot of people like if you really

[Nick McGowan]: talk to them they’re like you know

i think i’m doing okay i’m normal because

[Nick McGowan]: it almost it’s like they live at

an average like things aren’t terrible things aren’t

[Nick McGowan]: super awesome and most people just live

at a kind of norm and it seems

[Nick McGowan]: like you’re looking for a lot more

than that and be able to have a

[Nick McGowan]: lot more than that um a lot

of people i think it really fucking afraid

[Nick McGowan]: to be able to dive into that

so when you think of doing some of

[Nick McGowan]: the deeper work this subconscious work and

getting into those conversations

[Lincoln Stoller]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: how you see people actually going about

that if they’re if they’re on shore of

[Nick McGowan]: exactly what to move on first

[Lincoln Stoller]: yeah there’s the

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: i don’t know exactly what the right

aphorism is but there’s sort of the metaphor

[Lincoln Stoller]: of the moving train metaphor you know

when you’re sitting in a train

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: and it starts to move slowly and

you look out the window you’re not sure

[Lincoln Stoller]: you’re moving or what you’re looking at

is moving especially if you’re in a train

[Lincoln Stoller]: yard and their trains moving around you

and the feeling that first comes to you

[Lincoln Stoller]: is that you’re not moving everything else

is moving

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: and i think this is up metaphor

for how people view the world our nervous

[Lincoln Stoller]: systems

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: try to root themselves

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: in some sort of stability and see

the world moving around us

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: because it’s more useful to know where

you are than where you aren’t and that

[Lincoln Stoller]: stands to the way we think so

you know most people come me you know

[Lincoln Stoller]: and i’d say even socially you know

to be to be a friend is sort

[Lincoln Stoller]: of to be a therapist a little


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: and even when you’re just in social

conversation you’re looking at people like wondering you

[Lincoln Stoller]: know who they really are and most

people present their situation as them being rooted

[Lincoln Stoller]: in situations moving around them um m

so part of my background is in nero

[Lincoln Stoller]: neurology nero physiology nero psychology you know

the brain how the brain works and i

[Lincoln Stoller]: think it was valuable that i spent

a decade studying brain training which is to

[Lincoln Stoller]: say cognitive training using the brain and

looking at brain waves it’s not a very

[Lincoln Stoller]: popular a very deeply researched area because

it’s sort of too complicated you can do

[Lincoln Stoller]: it easily enough but knowing what you’re

doing is hard so what you see in

[Lincoln Stoller]: that is very interesting because when you

change a person’s brain waves you almost always

[Lincoln Stoller]: get them to tell you something s

happened in their world

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: they don’t recognize a change in themselves

so you know here’s a simple example person

[Lincoln Stoller]: comes to you and they’re very kind

of spaced out you know we recognize those

[Lincoln Stoller]: people they seem kind of dazed like


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: smoke too much pot or something but

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: for some people that’s their normal state

they’re kind of a little

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Lincoln Stoller]: slow on the uptake and they’ll

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: tell you stories about how things came

down on them that they struggled to get

[Lincoln Stoller]: on with and and you get this

picture that they’re kind of chasing a lot

[Lincoln Stoller]: after life and then you can do

brain training with them and you can speed

[Lincoln Stoller]: up their attention and their reactiveness and

they will notice that they’ve changed they’ll just

[Lincoln Stoller]: say oh the world slow down a

little and now i can catch

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: the ball better um oh they wouldn’t

even say that they’ll say the ball was

[Lincoln Stoller]: thrown more thrown more slowly they just

people don’t recognize our own change which on

[Lincoln Stoller]: the flip side is it you don’t

recognize your own deficiency

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: so the slow people don’t recognize that

they’re slow partly because they wouldn’t know otherwise

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: and and this also goes like why

do older people think that time goes faster

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know time doesn’t go faster it’s

them that are going slower or it’s their

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Lincoln Stoller]: attention that is

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know sort of clacking at a

slower speed

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: and i’m spending a lot of effort

trying to tell people pay attention to their

[Lincoln Stoller]: process of paying attention what i’m talking

about you know become

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: aware how you’re aware not what you’re

aware of but how you’re aware

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: i mean sometimes

[Lincoln Stoller]: it’s very sketchy you know if you

look at a clock watch the second hand

[Lincoln Stoller]: you’ll get a clear impression

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: of how vague it is you know

you can barely keep up in a regular

[Lincoln Stoller]: attention with anything your attention always drifts

and your mind drifts

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: and thoughts come in and out and

if you to

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: try to be regimented and focused and

solitary in your attention you can’t do it

[Lincoln Stoller]: yeah m but it’s interesting you can

develop certain abilities so if you’re a musician

[Lincoln Stoller]: you can develop the ability to keep


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: at the same time that you’re being

creative and whimsical and you know flights of

[Lincoln Stoller]: fancy

[Nick McGowan]: ye

[Lincoln Stoller]: and another thing that i’ve done which

is useful well you know it’s actually gotten

[Lincoln Stoller]: popular slack rope walking you attach a

rope to two trees and then you make

[Lincoln Stoller]: it taught and then you try to

walk across it that’s not that much different

[Lincoln Stoller]: than you know staying upright or walking

on the sidewalk it’s not it’s not qualitatively

[Lincoln Stoller]: different it’s quatitatvely you have to be


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: focused on small movements at the same

time that you have to be broadly aware

[Lincoln Stoller]: of where the horizon is so there

are ways to develop other sensitivities to time

[Lincoln Stoller]: and space through music through balance through

physical activity um

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: m it becomes important when you start

going into your subconscious and your emotions and

[Lincoln Stoller]: the way you think so if you

still think that you’re normal and it’s the

[Lincoln Stoller]: world that’s weird you haven’t really grasped

the full range of what you can do

[Lincoln Stoller]: a it’s very

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: hard to appreciate your change of state

of mind which is why i work with

[Lincoln Stoller]: dream work or you know the states

of awareness and sleep and pre sleep and

[Lincoln Stoller]: post sleep where your states of mind

are a little more clearly changing so i

[Lincoln Stoller]: tell people you know focus on your

issues before you fall asleep and you’ll notice

[Lincoln Stoller]: how it’s kind of difficult two get

things into focus as you’re falling asleep because

[Lincoln Stoller]: you’re sort of losing ah

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: attention and similarly when you’re waking up

give yourself time don’t don’t be thrown into

[Lincoln Stoller]: your wakeful state give yourself time to

be aware of your change of state and

[Lincoln Stoller]: after a while you kind of wake

up and you can feel yourself losing the

[Lincoln Stoller]: images of your dreams if you’ve had

them if you haven’t had dreams you’ll feel

[Lincoln Stoller]: yourself losing your sort of dreamy state

of mind m and then try during the

[Lincoln Stoller]: day while you’re supposedly aware to regain

those states you know to go back into

[Lincoln Stoller]: a dreamy state of mind day dream

and give yourself time to day dream this

[Lincoln Stoller]: is something i tell to people who

have insomnia which is of people

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: you might have listening to this who

are hyrehighfunctioning people and under pressure of stress

[Lincoln Stoller]: they tend to have insomnia because they


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: on to that stress they are not

willing to let their problems rest for a

[Lincoln Stoller]: while and i say to those people

who wake up at night well you know

[Lincoln Stoller]: be more cognizant about focusing on your

problems that you’ve woken up and then admitting

[Lincoln Stoller]: that you’re going to stop focusing on

them after a while you know you’re

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: going to spend four hours fidgeting

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: and tossing around

[Nick McGowan]: m oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know you’re going to spend fifteen

clear minutes now up aware and thinking about

[Lincoln Stoller]: what’s bothering you then maybe you’ll get

some ideas and write them down and you

[Lincoln Stoller]: finished and then you go back to

sleep with the intention of letting it go

[Lincoln Stoller]: be more intentional about

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: how you’re managing your focus and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: so this is what i got to

know you remember where your question started but

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know something about focus this is

where i’m asking people to attention

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: and so there’s you know there’s focusing

what you’re focusing on there’s focusing how you

[Lincoln Stoller]: focus there’s issues of how much emotion

you allow to rise up and you know

[Lincoln Stoller]: who you’re speaking are you speaking from

an impatient ont of view are you speaking

[Lincoln Stoller]: from a

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: wistful or romantic sad depressed or aggressive

point of view and realize that

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: you have some control over this or

you should

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: but you

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: don’t want to be tyrannical about it

in fact you can’t be tyrannical because if

[Lincoln Stoller]: you try to repress things in yourself

you can’t effectively you know they come back

[Lincoln Stoller]: when you’re

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: not they sneak up on you there’s

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: more

[Nick McGowan]: they’re

[Lincoln Stoller]: of them

[Nick McGowan]: not done

[Lincoln Stoller]: than

[Nick McGowan]: with

[Lincoln Stoller]: there

[Nick McGowan]: you

[Lincoln Stoller]: are you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah yeah and it’s interesting you bring

up being aware of awareness and then everything

[Nick McGowan]: else that goes around that even the

activities of just taken that awareness of waking

[Nick McGowan]: up in the morning being aware that

you’re still kind of in that sleepy state

[Lincoln Stoller]: m

[Nick McGowan]: or being aware of falling asleep i

find an interesting there at times where i

[Nick McGowan]: can sense that i’m about to i’ll

sleep because i’m thinking weird ship

[Lincoln Stoller]: m

[Nick McGowan]: like just

[Lincoln Stoller]: m

[Nick McGowan]: a weird thing where i’m like

[Lincoln Stoller]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: yeah it totally makes sense that the

elf is sitting over there cool and it’s

[Lincoln Stoller]: right

[Nick McGowan]: not like i’m fucked

[Lincoln Stoller]: interesting

[Nick McGowan]: up out of my mind and tripping

i’m just about to fall asleep when those

[Nick McGowan]: things start to make sense and i’m

like no that doesn’t make you’re about to

[Nick McGowan]: go to sleep all right cool but

being aware of that takes time to be

[Nick McGowan]: aware of that so if we look

at the overall activity being aware of things

[Nick McGowan]: it’s interesting that i think a lot

of people miss out on their morning or

[Nick McGowan]: evening being aware of stuff that helps

you throughout the day because when stuffs have

[Nick McGowan]: then throughout the day like your meetings

to meetings you got to go pick people

[Nick McGowan]: up you got to do this you

gotta do that whatever the things are we’re

[Nick McGowan]: just being reactive for the most part

because things are coming at us and if

[Nick McGowan]: we’re not corrupt were pared to be

able to do something with it and we

[Nick McGowan]: don’t know how to be aware of

that we’re kind of just being reactive and

[Nick McGowan]: ships being thrown at us so how

do you walk people through that to be

[Nick McGowan]: able to prep to be aware of

awareness then be able to actually have that

[Nick McGowan]: super power instead of having to deal

with the ship just being thrown at them

[Lincoln Stoller]: well you have to have some time

you have to give yourself some space if

[Lincoln Stoller]: you

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: load your plate with being reactive you

know fire putting out in all the time

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: you won’t have any chance to consider

the world from anything but the point of

[Lincoln Stoller]: view that’s

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: coming at you

[Nick McGowan]: m yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: um you know so there’s a time

for that you know you are needed for

[Lincoln Stoller]: certain things and uh okay hopefully your

effective edit of course if you’re not effective

[Lincoln Stoller]: at it you should

[Nick McGowan]: hopefully

[Lincoln Stoller]: deal with that but

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: in order to get sense or sort

of a medicine of who you are and

[Lincoln Stoller]: how you’re being aware you have to

give yourself space to disengage from your perceptions

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: perceptions being what you think is coming

at you and to

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: you now see the elephant in the

room so there are two ways i’d go

[Lincoln Stoller]: about it one is i ask people

if they can to get in more involved

[Lincoln Stoller]: with their dreams which is a big

a big nut to swallow so people can

[Lincoln Stoller]: get involved with their dreams in many

regards first of all you might

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: simply remember them even if you don’t

remember them you might remember where they left

[Lincoln Stoller]: you feeling um

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: and if to the extent which you

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: have access to your night time dreams

um m i encourage people to start to

[Lincoln Stoller]: understand them and what you have to

understand is that they are not narratives people

[Lincoln Stoller]: are always confused

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: when they try to put them together

in sequence and make sense of them

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: they’re not there to make sense and

they’re not there to be put into sequence

[Lincoln Stoller]: they are a bunch of associations that

are falling out of your head or rising

[Lincoln Stoller]: up from below and it’s your mind


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: makes the narrative you know the elephant

that’s in the taxi that is now in

[Lincoln Stoller]: the clouds

[Nick McGowan]: ye

[Lincoln Stoller]: and you’re trying to make sense of

that but the point is in your reality

[Lincoln Stoller]: there are things that feel like elephants

there are things

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Lincoln Stoller]: that feel like taxes and their things

that feel like clouds

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: you don’t have to put them together

in any logical framework but you should start

[Lincoln Stoller]: to elise or recognize the things in

the real world that trigger those

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: so

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: what feels like the elephant and

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: what feels like you know why does

this fire feel like a fire why does

[Lincoln Stoller]: this event that you have to intervene

feels so critical what is it what is

[Lincoln Stoller]: it

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: pulling out of you that’s causing you

to be frantic or reactive and what if

[Lincoln Stoller]: you just threw it back and said

i don’t

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: care you know it’s like

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Lincoln Stoller]: homer simpson said it’s not that it’s

not that i don’t understand you it’s that

[Lincoln Stoller]: i don’t care about you

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know what other

[Nick McGowan]: h yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: we think that’s funny because i say

oh well that’s something a father would never

[Lincoln Stoller]: say but you know half the time

our minds

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: are off somewhere else

[Nick McGowan]: ye

[Lincoln Stoller]: and we don’t care one hundred per

cent you know or we are in some

[Lincoln Stoller]: other way like you know

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: why

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: you’re bothering me and i wish i

had some food or something

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Lincoln Stoller]: so these associations are the things that

i encourage people to pursue

[Nick McGowan]: cool

[Lincoln Stoller]: so they are distracting right they

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: take you away from the thing that’s

right in front of you but they determine

[Lincoln Stoller]: how you’re going to think because

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: where do your thoughts come from you’re

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: not really in control of where your

thoughts come from you just respond to you

[Lincoln Stoller]: know it’s like an automatic

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: baseball machine they just your thoughts are

just thrown at you and you’re trying to

[Lincoln Stoller]: hit

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: them and you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: g and we like

[Nick McGowan]: yah

[Lincoln Stoller]: it would be nice if they were

good pitches you knock them all you know

[Lincoln Stoller]: into

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Lincoln Stoller]: the outfield but you don’t really have


[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: of the picture the picture is you’re

subconscious and it will throw you these curve

[Lincoln Stoller]: balls that you miss

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: so the thing is instead

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: of paying attention to the balls attention

the picture what are they trying to tell

[Lincoln Stoller]: you with those strange balls that they’re

throwing at you so you stop

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: and you say well

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: maybe it’s not about putting out this

fire maybe it’s about

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: thinking that it’s a fire thinking that

i’m me here and there you know in

[Lincoln Stoller]: the position i’ve put myself

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: into

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know uh h you know the

way i raised my kids i guess it’s

[Lincoln Stoller]: sort of like the way i wish

i was raised is like total freedom let

[Lincoln Stoller]: them do whatever they want when they

get fucked up i say well look at

[Lincoln Stoller]: it you know why are you upset

and you know and it’s a strange world

[Lincoln Stoller]: because kids on the internet get thrown

all kinds of crappy material like

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: like i don’t know everything from pornography

to you know things that are of low

[Lincoln Stoller]: value material marketing

[Nick McGowan]: m hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: um and what i did i’m trying

to end this right or what i did

[Lincoln Stoller]: is as a kid was i watched

television until i couldn’t stand it any more

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: because my parents weren’t there in like

either word my siblings and when i reached

[Lincoln Stoller]: the point when i suddenly realized this

is total crap you know nineteen fifties re

[Lincoln Stoller]: runs and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: game shows i turned it off and

i never turned it on again and i

[Lincoln Stoller]: react television like poison ivy just like

i can’t even be in the same room

[Lincoln Stoller]: with a television it just trigger’s me

now because i spent

[Nick McGowan]: m oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: endless years in this days of this

t v days

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: i can’t get back you know you

know you know why can’t i remember what

[Lincoln Stoller]: i did between the ages of five

and ten probably because i was watching television

[Lincoln Stoller]: what a

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: what a total waste

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: is like lebrun some sort of opium


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: so so like to get

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: out of that head is important you

know and we think we’re in that head

[Lincoln Stoller]: for some stupid reason like necessity and

it’s not most of the time

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: is not necessity it’s just habit addiction

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Lincoln Stoller]: i’m talking a

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: diction

[Nick McGowan]: night

[Lincoln Stoller]: of thinking now addiction of

[Nick McGowan]: yeah exactly

[Lincoln Stoller]: addiction to your own ego

[Nick McGowan]: yeah and your own ass kicking i

think certain people enjoy the beating they give

[Nick McGowan]: themselves without having grace on themselves it’s

interesting that you have moved into throughout life

[Lincoln Stoller]: m

[Nick McGowan]: the

[Lincoln Stoller]: hm

[Nick McGowan]: brain and then sleep

[Lincoln Stoller]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: and how it all relates to each

other and when you walk people

[Lincoln Stoller]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: through um getting into sleep because it

almost sounds like there’s a couple o major

[Nick McGowan]: pieces to it there’s the pre sleep

there’s actual sleep ram know etcetera and in

[Nick McGowan]: coming out of that and like that

whole that whole diagram but as you talk

[Nick McGowan]: to people about getting into sleep and

having their subconscious mind help them throughout sleep

[Nick McGowan]: what sort of tips would you give

to somebody that wants to be able to

[Nick McGowan]: start utilizing that as they as they

start to go to sleep to tap into

[Nick McGowan]: that subconscious

[Lincoln Stoller]: um m i would say that emotions

are key

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: people think that emotions are different than

your intellect and that somehow

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: your emotions you know there are different

avenue or there are kind of a swamp

[Lincoln Stoller]: and i would say that misunderstanding i

say your emotions summarize your thoughts your emotions

[Lincoln Stoller]: are all your conclusions without any of

your reasons so it’s how you feel and

[Lincoln Stoller]: then you sort of struggle to justify


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: but it doesn’t really matter because it

doesn’t matter how you justify your feelings they’re

[Lincoln Stoller]: going to be there anyway

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: and they were formed by your experiences

and what you thought made sense and then

[Lincoln Stoller]: you’re left with a sort of nuggets

that are your emotions so i would say

[Lincoln Stoller]: your emotions are the key to understanding

how you

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: where your thoughts come from your thoughts

come from your

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: emotions they don’t they’re not a temple

that they don’t like stamp out your thoughts

[Lincoln Stoller]: your emotions don’t stamp

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: out your thoughts but they generate them

in terms of how you attention

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: so you know you know if you’re

if you’re horny then you will

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: be attracted by whatever it is that

arouses you and you don’t have to think

[Lincoln Stoller]: about it and if you’re hungry you

know food will arouse you and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: if you’re afraid then fearful things will

come to mind and your thoughts

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: will follow along so if you want

to get a handle on your thoughts go

[Lincoln Stoller]: into your emotions and see what they

are you horny are you hungry are you

[Lincoln Stoller]: need are

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: you fearful and all the other things

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: that you can think of

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: so i would tell people or i

do tell people but i don’t tell everyone

[Lincoln Stoller]: because you have to work with what

people are ready to hear

[Nick McGowan]: whether at a

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know they’re going to go in

what direction they’re headed

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: no matter what you tell them

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: so i would suggest to them that

as they go to sleep you know as

[Lincoln Stoller]: they’re sort of going into the veil

of change that they review their feelings and

[Lincoln Stoller]: that they try to call them up

and be an

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: ally to their feelings and stop being


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: dictatorial about saying i’m going to think

about this or i’m going and i should

[Lincoln Stoller]: i should talk you know you

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: know i worry about money i go

to sleep and i say i want money

[Lincoln Stoller]: or i want success in this and

that and like

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: well what i really want is i

want to feel good and i want to

[Lincoln Stoller]: feel confident and secure

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: so what i really should be doing

is thinking about

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: thoughts that they make me feel confident

good and secure or thoughts that don’t i

[Lincoln Stoller]: say thoughts i really mean feelings feelings

that stimulate those kind of thoughts so that

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: i’m sort of in the right ball

park when i fall asleep so that rather

[Lincoln Stoller]: than you know i want to be

surfing the waves and that sort of playing

[Lincoln Stoller]: in the puddles of my self absorption

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: because the waves of emotion are what’s

going to drive the dreams and i would

[Lincoln Stoller]: like the dreams to be consonant with

my deeper needs i think this is well

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: it gets complicated why don’t people remember

dreams how much of a dream do you

[Lincoln Stoller]: remember i mean you should know or

people should know that they’re dreaming about you

[Lincoln Stoller]: know three hours a night and they’re

remembering thirty seconds of a dream if they’re

[Lincoln Stoller]: lucky

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: maybe a few minutes tremendous

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: even if you’re good at dreaming dream

recollection you’re still missing ninety five percent of

[Lincoln Stoller]: them so where are they going you

know psychologist they go or at least some

[Lincoln Stoller]: psychologist think the the incidental do nothing

that’s stupid because your

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: your brain doesn’t

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: waste all that

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: all that power for nothing most of

your our energy goes into your brain some

[Lincoln Stoller]: like you know like ninety

[Nick McGowan]: right

[Lincoln Stoller]: five per cent of your glucose or

energy creating molecules are spent in your brain

[Lincoln Stoller]: you’re not going to spend that you

now dreaming about useless things anyway

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: getting in touch with your feelings thinking

about your thinking process you know i wanted

[Lincoln Stoller]: to say this just given your whole

podcast orientation and the way psychology works psychology

[Lincoln Stoller]: mistakenly in my view separates therapy and

coaching by saying therapy deals with your past

[Lincoln Stoller]: your trauma and the issues that bother

you and coaching deals with your goals in

[Lincoln Stoller]: your future and your intentional actions and

i say well what what a crock of

[Lincoln Stoller]: ship you know

[Nick McGowan]: um

[Lincoln Stoller]: what person lives two different lives i

mean it would be

[Nick McGowan]: yeah come on now

[Lincoln Stoller]: he’d be

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: doctor what’s his

[Nick McGowan]: jeckell

[Lincoln Stoller]: name you know

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know

[Nick McGowan]: jack old m hyde

[Lincoln Stoller]: that’s right jackelnhide

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: so you know we don’t want to

live like that and that’s a sick way

[Lincoln Stoller]: to live

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: and and it’s true

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: people come to me with that

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: sickness they either come to me thinking

they need therapy or they come to me

[Lincoln Stoller]: thinking they need coaching and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know i would love to get

that idea out of their head

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: but again you got to work with

what people you know

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Lincoln Stoller]: you can’t go at a right angle

to their momentum you have to sort of

[Lincoln Stoller]: say

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: well okay what in your dreams of

the future and you’re dealing with your business

[Lincoln Stoller]: environment calls up your personal trauma and

you know personality skills and the other thing

[Lincoln Stoller]: is when you’re dealing when i’m dealing

with a person who’s trying to re frame

[Lincoln Stoller]: their past

[Nick McGowan]: ye

[Lincoln Stoller]: i’m always trying to get them to

focus on the future like what is why

[Lincoln Stoller]: is this relevant

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: what is the purpose of

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: this drama what is the lesson you

can take that’s positive um i mean you

[Lincoln Stoller]: mentioned that yourself have some history of

drama and a lot of people with drama

[Lincoln Stoller]: we all have some dramas i’m a

big drama struggle with what to do with

[Lincoln Stoller]: it

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know it’s

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Lincoln Stoller]: like p t s

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: d in a sense it’s bothersome and

seemingly unhelpful and some people say well you’ve

[Lincoln Stoller]: got to go back and deal with

it in detail and i don’t really think

[Lincoln Stoller]: so i think you just deal with

it as it’s useful in fact you don’t

[Lincoln Stoller]: even the reason

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: you don’t remember it is because a

lot of the memories are not in a

[Lincoln Stoller]: position to be useful at this point

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: maybe they will be maybe they won’t

be and you don’t really care i mean

[Lincoln Stoller]: you’re moving forward and you don’t really

want to go back to the horrors of

[Lincoln Stoller]: the past unless that would empower you

i mean sure

[Nick McGowan]: exactly

[Lincoln Stoller]: maybe you could find you know great

or would you know

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: cut through all kinds of things in

the future but

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: and and there’s the idea of gratitude

and forgiveness where you know forgiveness is really

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: not exonerating anybody it’s just forgetting

[Nick McGowan]: ah

[Lincoln Stoller]: the whole fucking thing so that it’s

just not

[Nick McGowan]: coming

[Lincoln Stoller]: relevant

[Nick McGowan]: to grips

[Lincoln Stoller]: anymore

[Nick McGowan]: with it a

[Lincoln Stoller]: i mean in my case my mother

was sort of absent and i spent years

[Lincoln Stoller]: and still spent time feeling rejected and


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: and part of my resolution is that

i have to understand that she was just

[Lincoln Stoller]: absent she just was absent not that

she didn’t

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: pay attention to me because she couldn’t

connect with the world period

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: i shouldn’t get fucked up about that


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: like that’s her problem and i can’t

fix it

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: i was just you know there and

i needed she couldn’t give i didn’t understand

[Lincoln Stoller]: i

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: thought it was normal right

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: i thought this was a normal

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: world this this this

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: bizarre cabinet

[Nick McGowan]: yeah the

[Lincoln Stoller]: of

[Nick McGowan]: south

[Lincoln Stoller]: dr

[Nick McGowan]: as works

[Lincoln Stoller]: calgary world of mine

[Nick McGowan]: well it’s interesting because you you kind

of expect things as a kid where you

[Nick McGowan]: in some ways don’t really have a

right to expect things but you ex pect

[Nick McGowan]: that people are going to be a

certain way because you see it outside of

[Nick McGowan]: you

[Lincoln Stoller]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: so if you grew up on a

farm and your parents are

[Lincoln Stoller]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: no where to be around

[Lincoln Stoller]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: and that’s just how it was and

like you never talked to anybody ever just

[Nick McGowan]: would have ben okay or you wouldn’t

have been okay you would have turned it

[Nick McGowan]: into whatever you’re going to turn it

into i think sometimes we look around and

[Nick McGowan]: go well that’s weird you guys have

normal parents you guys do normal things or

[Nick McGowan]: you know like you’re saying looking at

it kind of the opposite of that

[Lincoln Stoller]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: but it’s all the awareness right

[Lincoln Stoller]: i was very much benefited in my

childhood by observing other people’s parents that really

[Lincoln Stoller]: started

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: show me that my world wasn’t there

wasn’t really any normal because

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: like you said you take your world

for granted in these other people’s worlds my

[Lincoln Stoller]: friends we’re not like mine and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: i didn’t know of anybody at the

time in my childhood whose parents i like

[Lincoln Stoller]: that much you know they weren’t i

couldn’t see any model parents and there were

[Lincoln Stoller]: no model families

[Nick McGowan]: m m yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: um m

[Nick McGowan]: they

[Lincoln Stoller]: although

[Nick McGowan]: all got

[Lincoln Stoller]: it was

[Nick McGowan]: chip they got to deal with

[Lincoln Stoller]: yeah the less you know about them

the better they seem but the more

[Nick McGowan]: exactly

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know about them

[Nick McGowan]: ignorance is bliss

[Lincoln Stoller]: yeah well they all try to make

it seem nice but

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: i don’t know if i was more


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: or i just spent more time

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: looking

[Nick McGowan]: yea

[Lincoln Stoller]: but i found these people

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: pretty pretty damn weird and i’m not

even talking

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: about the adults side of it i’m

just talking about as adults they were probably

[Lincoln Stoller]: really fucked up i mean who knows

i didn’t

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: i’m just talking about the way they

dealt with their kid it’s

[Nick McGowan]: yeah yeah if that’s the only thing

that you’re seeing and now looking at it

[Nick McGowan]: as an adult you’d be like ship

if you were doing that with kids how

[Nick McGowan]: the fun were you with other humans

[Lincoln Stoller]: that’s right

[Nick McGowan]: and other people crazy it’s

[Lincoln Stoller]: crazy

[Nick McGowan]: it’s interesting having that perspective and looking

at things and just kind of looking at

[Nick McGowan]: it from a third party perspective or

just being a human watcher and just joying

[Nick McGowan]: the utter chaos that people bring up

themselves at times um and learning from that

[Nick McGowan]: and then being able to do something

with it so i appreciate that you’re not

[Nick McGowan]: only not only have you done something

with it but you’ve turned it into other

[Nick McGowan]: things you’ve turned it into passions

[Lincoln Stoller]: m

[Nick McGowan]: that you have and some

[Lincoln Stoller]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: of the coaching or therapy that you

do i’m right there

[Lincoln Stoller]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: along with you i think it’s all

the same thing it’s just whatever people want

[Nick McGowan]: to title it that helps them sleep

that’s fine it’s about actually getting to the

[Nick McGowan]: depths of stuff so along lines what

sort of advice would you give to somebody

[Nick McGowan]: that’s on their path towards self mastery

[Lincoln Stoller]: oh well i think you have to

decide what you want to do there’s a

[Lincoln Stoller]: certain amount of intention a certain amount

of branching into you’re going to be a

[Lincoln Stoller]: materialist and take care of your basic

needs and make them primary or you’re going

[Lincoln Stoller]: o be an idealist and try to

level up into a greater vision of what

[Lincoln Stoller]: things could be and who you could

be and you know we live in a

[Lincoln Stoller]: materialistic society and this separation of church

and state is kind of a reflection on

[Lincoln Stoller]: that you know state is practical legal

material financial and churches spiritual creative maybe and

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know that’s not what it’s supposed

to be but people sort of fall along

[Lincoln Stoller]: those lines and i think you have

to blur those lines because it’s as long

[Lincoln Stoller]: as those lines are strong and definite

you’ll have a hard time crossing them and

[Lincoln Stoller]: there’s no reason they should be mean

as we talked about sleep try to

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: bring in the emotional content of your

daily life and sit with yourself

[Nick McGowan]: oh m

[Lincoln Stoller]: that may mean set

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: some time aside because your

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: context of life has not given you

one if you’re an executive you probably don’t

[Lincoln Stoller]: have anything on your schedule that says

sit and meditate no

[Nick McGowan]: yah

[Lincoln Stoller]: isolation

[Nick McGowan]: should

[Lincoln Stoller]: but

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: you yeah you should and you know

[Nick McGowan]: should

[Lincoln Stoller]: i think that’s why people

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: keep the door closed and they have

secretaries to keep the noise down but still

[Lincoln Stoller]: you have to make the intention

[Lincoln Stoller]: being open so this is one thing

i do as a hypno therapist i almost

[Lincoln Stoller]: always take people into a space where

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: they don’t know what’s going on so

you understand that’s how done you know you

[Lincoln Stoller]: get into kind of a drifty dreamy

space and then you

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: ask them to visualize stuff and then

you take them into a place where they

[Lincoln Stoller]: can’t see what’s going on you know

you fly up in the sky you go

[Lincoln Stoller]: into a cave you go under water

something that doesn’t make sense and i’ll do

[Lincoln Stoller]: that sort of intellectually since i’m a

physicist too i can always sort of talk

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know science bullshit until your head

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: is

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: confused and that’s a good place to

be when you’re trying to find some new

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: creative idea because without confusion there is

no no balt

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: everything is just ordered like a swiss

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: watch

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: and

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: generally you don’t want to do that

because i don’t know at least in our

[Lincoln Stoller]: society there’s a dearth of creativity so

becoming more creative how do you be more

[Lincoln Stoller]: creative basically by just

[Nick McGowan]: okay

[Lincoln Stoller]: giving your time to sort of fuck

up make mistakes and freely follow things that

[Lincoln Stoller]: go nowhere and you know you’re basically

just feeding fertilizer to your mind

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Lincoln Stoller]: without the expectation you know as they

say you know a good gardener doesn’t dig

[Lincoln Stoller]: their vegetables up every half an hour

to see how they’re growing so you

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: have to let this stuff marinate ferment

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: so dreams do that

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: and the more you can get engaged

with them and be resident with them what

[Lincoln Stoller]: i do is like i try to

continue into my day as much of the

[Lincoln Stoller]: feelings i wake up with so if

i wake up anxious or disquiet i’ll let

[Lincoln Stoller]: that be in my day and try

to figure why why am i having a

[Lincoln Stoller]: good day when i’m having a bad

day why is things bothering me i don’t

[Lincoln Stoller]: really get answers to those i just

want to give space so this this this

[Lincoln Stoller]: mistake that we can figure ship out

well you can’t figure ship out you can

[Lincoln Stoller]: only figure out very well formed problems

that’s what you know reason logic

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Lincoln Stoller]: do but the important problems the ones

that are transcendent they’re not well formed maybe

[Lincoln Stoller]: they’ll never be maybe they can’t even

be transformed y their nature so then

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Lincoln Stoller]: you have to be that kind of

person who is not well formed to be

[Lincoln Stoller]: on the same page so i i

get a lot of traction once you get

[Lincoln Stoller]: somebody to a point where they’re thoroughly

confused and they’re out of their element then

[Lincoln Stoller]: you can say what’s the most valuable

thing that’s happening in your mind and heart

[Lincoln Stoller]: ow that you’ve disengaged from all your

plans and strategies and problems

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: and then find that personality and keep

in touch with it so that it becomes

[Lincoln Stoller]: your all and it’s not connected to

any of your solutions and problems and histories

[Lincoln Stoller]: and traumas it’s transcendent it’s a higher

self if you’re quiet and you’re not your

[Lincoln Stoller]: usual bull in the china shop it

will be present or it can be present

[Lincoln Stoller]: so

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: i think that answers your question even

though i don’t remember the question exactly something

[Lincoln Stoller]: about how

[Nick McGowan]: a

[Lincoln Stoller]: you know

[Nick McGowan]: ye

[Lincoln Stoller]: to transcend

[Nick McGowan]: along those lines basically as people travel

along their path aiming towards self mastery and

[Nick McGowan]: ultimately discipline so being able to use

that is huge and i think it also

[Nick McGowan]: has the hint of what we were

talking about earlier with the awareness and being

[Nick McGowan]: aware

[Lincoln Stoller]: yes

[Nick McGowan]: of awareness all of this doesn’t matter

if you’re not aware of what’s happening if

[Nick McGowan]: you have no

[Lincoln Stoller]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: idea what’s going on then none of

it’s going to actually matter because

[Lincoln Stoller]: said

[Nick McGowan]: you can’t

[Lincoln Stoller]: the last

[Nick McGowan]: do a fucking thing about it

[Lincoln Stoller]: the last thing to the important is

that being aware of awareness means you’re not

[Lincoln Stoller]: really aware you’re wait if the language

is screwed up here you’re aware of something

[Lincoln Stoller]: that you can’t pin down it’s a

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Lincoln Stoller]: non rational unreasonable illogical form of awareness

it’s perceptive receptive and associative form of awareness

[Lincoln Stoller]: it doesn’t

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: have a goal it doesn’t have a

conclusion it doesn’t have a boundary it feels

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: lost that’s where it that’s authentic a

lot of people don’t like feeling that i

[Lincoln Stoller]: understand

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: that but that’s

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Lincoln Stoller]: the fertile territory

[Nick McGowan]: what a beautiful way to end that

link it’s been a pleasure to have you

[Nick McGowan]: on i really appreciate

[Lincoln Stoller]: my

[Nick McGowan]: the time appreciate the insight and the

wisdom tell us where

[Lincoln Stoller]: yea

[Nick McGowan]: can people find you and where can

they connect with you

[Lincoln Stoller]: please yes i’m publishing books i need

more subscribers to my free blog please subscribe

[Lincoln Stoller]: to my free blog it’s at

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Lincoln Stoller]: my website mind strength balance it’s all

one word mind strength balance dot com and

[Lincoln Stoller]: there should be plenty of buttons and

links to

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Lincoln Stoller]: subscribe there’s a free blog monthly and

so forth please subscribe and go visit that

[Lincoln Stoller]: write me and there’s tons of writing

and resources there mind strength

[Nick McGowan]: all

[Lincoln Stoller]: balance

[Nick McGowan]: great stuff

[Lincoln Stoller]: dot com

[Nick McGowan]: ye

[Lincoln Stoller]: thanks

[Nick McGowan]: erect well thank you i’ve looked through

the website everybody go check it out and

[Nick McGowan]: all that’s going to be in the

show notes too so again thank you land

[Nick McGowan]: i appreciate your time

[Lincoln Stoller]: thanks Nick i really appreciate it 

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