Sonny, a Redemption Story: Evolving Through Trauma, Prison, and Everything In Between – Ep.044 – Sonny Von Cleveland

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Episode summary:​ Sonny Von Cleveland endured a rough childhood. He experienced sexual abuse from multiple men starting from the age of 5. At 7, he started to get into trouble. He broking into a church and committed theft. He was arrested and found himself addicted to getting in trouble with the police, as he kind of saw them as father figures.

As Sonny started to get older, he started to get into more trouble. As a teenager, he stole from his school’s safe and that was the last straw and he was sent to prison. Going to prison, he encounter sexual abuse again and he snapped.

He was done being the victim and Sonny turned off all emotions. He became violent and did as he pleased. He was in and out of prison for a while until a certain man changed his life. He helped Sonny self-heal, accept emotions, learn empathy and sympathy, and really got him in touch with himself.

From there, Sonny realized what all he had done to others, what others have done to him, he learned the power of manifestation, and swore off any criminal activity. Sonny’s life was not over and he was not defined by his past. His life was just now starting and he has so much to offer the world. 

Guest Name & Bio: Sonny Von Cleveland, born and raised in the countryside of Mid-Michigan,  is an entertainer and musician who has overcome many obstacles in his life and used the lessons learned from those experiences to teach and guide others in the art of overcoming and persevering. ​

Through music, speaking, and entertaining, Sonny uses his school of hard knocks style educational leadership to inspire people to embrace living life to its fullest and finding your core happiness.

Sonny Von Cleveland

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[Nick McGowan]: Hey Sonny welcome to the show

[Nick McGowan]: man how you doing?

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: oh nick good man thank you for having me it’s a pleasure to be here

[Nick McGowan]: absolutely i’m excited man we’ve been kind of shooting the shit for a couple minutes before we hit record here and i think we’re on have a great conversation but i know you’ve also got some deep shit for us to get  into so i feel like this one is going to be one of those heart string ones but has a redemptive ending to it so i’m not going to give this whole thing away but i know we’re in for a good one

[Nick McGowan]: so hey man why don’t you give us some context what do you do for a living and tell us one thing that most people don’t know you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ah well so as for what i

do i’m kind of a i just live

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: my life i don’t really have one

specific thing that i do like i try

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: new ship all the time but

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m a content creator entertainer motivational speaker

mindset coach and entrepreneur um um currently i’m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: in the process of opening a cat

cafe in palm springs figured we tried that

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: out were setting

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: up

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a franchised cat f that we’re hoping

that’s going to take off and do well

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: which we know it well because we

manifest success in our life and i’ve gotten

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: into photography lately so i have a

couple photo shoots lined up tonight tomorrow night

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to go do some photo shoots at

a couple of venus here in palm springs

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’ve really been into that lately content

creator on you tube a new reactions not

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so much any more but i did

for a long

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: time did actions on you tubes have

a youtube channel as well and twitch twitch

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: gaming as well and i’m also a

metal vocalist so haven’t been doing much of

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that lately but still a metal vocalist

once a metal localist always a medal vocalist

[Nick McGowan]: always yes

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and something people might not know about

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: me it’s a little weird i am

a freaking die hard being dinner i love

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: dudgingent drag man

[Nick McGowan]: nice

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i haven’t been able to play because

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i can’t find any other d and

d ords around but i’m a die hard

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: fantasy nut i love everything

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: from the lord of the ring type

genera and a big dan

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: de nut so not a lot of

people know that i hope that hope i

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: didn’t just lose cool points for that

though cool

[Nick McGowan]: no man

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: people

[Nick McGowan]: not

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: play

[Nick McGowan]: at all

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: dungeons and dragons

[Nick McGowan]: yeah i think there’s a there’s a

level of being real and honest with yourself

[Nick McGowan]: that some people don’t ever get to

like i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: even think with games like that where

they’re like oh no no that was for

[Nick McGowan]: nord’s because somebody told me that when

i was a little kid and i never

[Nick McGowan]: experienced it it’s like well and how

do you know like i don’t know but

[Nick McGowan]: i really like that show heroes really


[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: something else i find you’re like then

what the fuck look at the translation here

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you know what ninety five percent of

people live to impress other fucking people and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that’s ninety nine percent of ninety five

percent of people’s problem ye

[Nick McGowan]: yeah man before we go down that

path because i think that could be a

[Nick McGowan]: solid path we

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: uh

[Nick McGowan]: get down we need to go back


[Sonny Von Cleveland]: h

[Nick McGowan]: you’re talking about doing let’s say coaching

and content creating but then you throw in

[Nick McGowan]: a cat cafe

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right just

[Nick McGowan]: so

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: out of nowhere

[Nick McGowan]: what

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right so i mean it kind of

ties into the

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: entire story of this mad crazy train

that is my life but my wife that

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: my wife now and we moved to

palm springs about about a year ago last

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: june and we we’re both entrepreneurial spirits

and we have

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: innate desire to hustle and we we

don’t ever want to work for anybody else

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ever again again i don’t i’m not

here for other people’s use

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and so we decided on a business

where like we need to start a business

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and what do we want to do

and we actually toy with the idea of

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a jewelry store at first because we’re

big travelers so we do a lot of

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: traveling and we were like we could

go and design jewelry and other cool little

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: things that based on where we’ve gone

but we both have this innate desire to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: help people we want to give back

to the world and leave a legacy and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: there’s really nothing no a jewelry store

that you can help the world with so

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: we quickly scraped that idea after looking

at a couple of places and options and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: we were sitting on the porch of

a airbnb that we were stating at and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: she just came out with it she’s

like i visited a cat cafe once in

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: virginia maybe we should do a cat

cafe yes let’s do a cat cat

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: fat that would be sweet i went

to bristo school down in san diego to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: learn how to be a bari and

we just put the ball in motion was

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: like you know let’s just put one

foot in front of the other and do

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it it’s become a thing now frisky

business cat cafe pretty bad as

[Nick McGowan]: and that is cool so what does

that look like forgive me if i sound

[Nick McGowan]: completely ignorant but is it a bunch

of cats

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so

[Nick McGowan]: and literally a cafe

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: pretty much it’s it’s kind of a


[Nick McGowan]: right

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: business it started in japan

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: there’s a hundred and twenty five registered

at cafes in the united states twelve in

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: california alone and it’s

[Nick McGowan]: a

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a cough shop it’s like a coffee

house that has cats in it for adoption

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so that

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so we’re a partner with a palm

springs animal shelter they will provide kittens for

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: us and it’s it’s so ours in

particular is a century modern lounge that’s

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: kind of on the class her side

my wife’s from england so she loves you

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know the path side of things and

it’s mid century modern and there will be

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: about twelve cats in there at any

one time so you come in and you

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: can get coffee and pastry or bisket

or a doughnut or sandwich and then go

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: into the lounge and just hang out

with cats and cuddle with some cats and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: play with them and hopefully you fall

in love with one of them and adopt

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it and take it home oh

[Nick McGowan]: that is

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that’s

[Nick McGowan]: a

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the

[Nick McGowan]: pretty

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: concept

[Nick McGowan]: genius idea yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s pretty dope i liked it from

the moment she’s talked about it and so

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: we went and visited several of them

here in california went out to lay at

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: san diego and checked out some and

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: really cool

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: concepts man we’re big animal lovers too

and you

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know most people avoid like animal shelters

because it tugs at your heart strings and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: feel like ship and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: if you’re like us you end up

leaving with several animals and

[Nick McGowan]: h

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so this

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: helps with the visibility of the cats

so that they’ll get seen more because people

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: don’t have a problem coming into a

cat cafe so we’re just we’re trying to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: help get these cats adopted out and

just do something cool for the world you

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know

[Nick McGowan]: it’s awesome man i’ll be honest with

you i’m not really a cat person i’m

[Nick McGowan]: not one of those people that hates

them but i’m more of a dog person

[Nick McGowan]: and when i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: me

[Nick McGowan]: look

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: too

[Nick McGowan]: at that sort of stuff and somebody

says a cat cafe my brain just goes

[Nick McGowan]: to the very surface level of it

where yeah at the court there’s cats and

[Nick McGowan]: it’s a cafe but the fact that

you’re able to actually kind of elevate where

[Nick McGowan]: people aren’t going to they’re not going


[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: go i know i do the same

thing when i had two dogs years ago

[Nick McGowan]: that we got them from a rescue

but we didn’t want to go and see

[Nick McGowan]: all the dogs because almost felt like

we were going to take them all home

[Nick McGowan]: we

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: were going to have to fix this


[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it tugs at your heart screens when

you see a dog sit

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: here like please love me and you’re

like oh

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: my god

[Nick McGowan]: i want them all

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: but being able to walk in and

get coffee and hang out and if somebody

[Nick McGowan]: connects with that animal and they’re able

to take that home i mean in some

[Nick McGowan]: ways that could be such a magical

day for that person

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: to go in coffee and i got

this beloved

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you

[Nick McGowan]: animal

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know

[Nick McGowan]: at this point

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and and and and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the most of them won’t adopt the

cat right so it’s still

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: because there’s a huge temographic of people

that can’t have them but still love them

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: like

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: there’s lots of cat

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: lovers

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: videos are the number one thing viewed

on youtube so there’s a lot of people

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: love cats and so you know like

the elderly community that comes in they’ll come

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: in just to hang out with the

cat have no plans of adopting

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it but they just want to come

in and cuddle with the cat and hang

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: out with it and go home so

it’s it’s just a laid back atmosphere that

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: people can vibe with an animal and

enjoy a

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: wonderful cup of coffee

[Nick McGowan]: and you kind of charge them rent

at that point like look you can sit

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i

[Nick McGowan]: here

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: should

[Nick McGowan]: an have one cup of coffee for


[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: five dollars or whatever

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: well yeah

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: saw so it’s a twenty two dollar

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: fee and you

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: get a forty five

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: minute session so you can go and

buy your in forty five minutes in in

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the lounge with the cats and then


[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: do

[Nick McGowan]: that’s cool

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: events

[Nick McGowan]: man

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: their normal hours we’re doing like drag

bingo and we

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: have other

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: cool shows that are lined up like

she’s doing a mad chatter tea party because

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: she’s from

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: england and she loves tea so

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: people come in and enjoy it with

the cats and then you know got a

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: book club once a month or people

commit and do the book club thing with

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: cats running around and i think everything

is just kind of more laid back and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: cool with cats involved right

[Nick McGowan]: you got to be a cool catagus

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: got to be a cool cat i

[Nick McGowan]: here

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: see what

[Nick McGowan]: you

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you

[Nick McGowan]: go

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: did there nick

[Nick McGowan]: there

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i like

[Nick McGowan]: you go

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it

[Nick McGowan]: that jokes for the wind so let’s

take a little bit of a step back

[Nick McGowan]: because this is the u now and

the thing that’s happening

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: now that you’re passionate

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: about you’re excited about but honestly dude

let’s kind of get into some of the

[Nick McGowan]: deep crazy ship that you’ve been through

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: let’s do it

[Nick McGowan]: the floor is yours my friend where

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: would you like to start

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so i mean you kind of got

to start to start i’m from a small

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: town in michigan out in the boom

docks raised with a

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: bunch of red necks and at age

five i started getting molested by my uncle

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and from the age of five until

i was ten i was molested by four

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: dudes m one

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of my mom’s boy friends and couple

of friends of the family and it became

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: commonplace for me right like felt like

almost like this is just normal life how

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: this is supposed to have in a

five year old can’t really process that kind

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of ship that’s going on in his

mind when the sick

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: bastard is doing stuff to you and

so that caused me to have a serious

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: day trust in men especially and in

authority figures so when i was seven years

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: old i got charged and convicted of

my first felony i broke into a church

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and stole some ship and because it’s

small town politics and my mom was like

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: this big anti government protester the local

authorities hated her and they too it out

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: on

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: us and i was charged

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and convicted of felony in nineteen eighty

eight seven years old and i fell in

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: love with the attention from the police

when they arrested me

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: because these are men that didn’t want

to touch my dick they just they were

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: like be a good kid discipline discipline

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you ought to be a good kid

by a blash and i was like well

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: damn that’s a dad figure and so

i didn’t have a father and i really

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: liked that attention and so i continued

to break the law because that’s the only

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: way that these guys would come around

right like i didn’t know how to get

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a cop to come around so if

i go and break something or if i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: break into something or if i steal

something the cops come hey there they are

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and so i fell in love with

the attention from the judge and i’m i’m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a entertainer by nature right like i’m

a very outgoing

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: social type person and i love to

interact with people have to entertain love to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: saying love to make people laugh but

when you’re being abused like that you become

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: reclusive right so there’s this dichotomy that’s

going on inside of my little five six

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: seven year old mind where

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i want to be extraverted but i’m

being abused so i’m being introverted and at

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the same time i’m very

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: compassionate and pathetic even towards the preditors

that are abusing me i don’t want them

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to get in trouble i don’t want

them to get hurt i don’t want the

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: other family members to get hurt so

i’m just like what the fuck do i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: do i don’t know what to do

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so my mother was a big she

was spiking to music it she was a

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: singer song writer and played guitar and

she had this amazing collective collection of music

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that were tapes in this tape box

everything from elton john to led zepplin to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: meat loaf to white snake to poison

the george straight and everything in between right

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and that was my go to i

would hide in the closet whenever her boy

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ends were around or you know the

guys that were abusing me my own for

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a defense mechanism i would just go

to the closet put the head phones on

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it and just lose myself in music

and again i was a big fan of

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: like labyrinth and secret of the nym

and lord of the rings cartoons and all

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: these things and and

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i would go in there and i

would listen to music and fantasise about my

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: friends because i was a very extraverted

person that was forced to be introverted and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so i created

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: this own world inside this little closet

of my own where i had friends you

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know i found it ventures and they

got the music and this kind of just

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: turned me into this a very imaginative

child that had this big vast imagination and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: but i also on the outside continued

to just get into trouble constantly and the

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: neve took me away they never put

me in any foster homes or anything i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: don’t know if my mom blew the

judge or whatever to keep me out of

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: there but whatever it was they never

took me away just always probation probation probation

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: which didn’t teach me anything so so


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: time i’m thirteen i now have you

know ten falanies on my record and now

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m getting into drugs and alcohol and

in sex in so when i turned sixteen

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i got sent to prison i stole

some money from my high school safe and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: they bound me over to adult court

to judge with scameve’s like you know what

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’ve done with you bound me over

to adult court and they put me in

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: county jail for six months and so

while i’m in there all these other charges

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: came up and my mom she took

off she she was living in a on

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: state land in a tent with her

thin boy friend she came into the county

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: jail the day i got sentenced nd

was like well you’re kind on your own

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: kid i love you i’m out and

she left for south carolina with her boy

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: friend so i was just kind of

left to do this whole battle on my

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: own and then they just started coming

with all these charges and i didn’t know

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: much about legal ship i never really

paid attention to it i just always listened

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to the lawyer and my lawyer was

like well all right just plead guilty to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: this and this and this and next

thing you know you got two to five

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: years well i don’t know what that

means but now you’re going to prison so

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a week later i’m on a bus

and i find myself in in quarantine ionia

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: michigan riverside which is weird riverside is

the name of the quarantine in the first

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: week i was in there i was

rated by two dudes they ran into my

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: cell and they had their way with

me for about fifteen minutes and it was

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: at that point in my life that

i snapped and i was like you know

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: what i’m never going to be a

victim ever again i don’t give a ship

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: what have to do i will become

the most vile vicious violent mother sucker you’ve

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ever seen i will never be victimized

again and i did i went out and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i stabbed both of those assholes for

what they did ah and i stopped caring

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: like i was no longer

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: afraid of physical pain

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: because i mean what are you going

to do to me that hasn’t already been

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: done

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and i i just kind of disconnected

emotionally like i just didn’t care about anything

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: any more and

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: then they rode me out to a

level floor prison and i immediately fell in

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: with the gangs i went there and

the gang bangers saw me and i mean

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i took every lesson that i saw

as soon as i hit the yard i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: found the biggest mother sucker went over

there and just started teeing off an i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and he beat my ass and he’s

like what are you doing man you don’t

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: why are you doing it you don’t

have i’m like i got to earn my

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: respect and it’s like man it’s a

different time right this is not nineteen seventy

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: nine this is nineteen ninety eight like

you don’t

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: have to do that any more just

be a respectful dude i don’t want to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: hear shityhead so anyway but the gang

loved it so you know the gang came

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and approached me and i fell in

love with that gang culture because it’s like

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: brotherhood and family and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and i never really had that so

it’s like oh man i love that and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i knew that the only way that

they were going to tinue that affection towards

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: me as if i was this violent

dude so i was i mean i just

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it was a very bad train that

i was on and i ended up doing

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: five and a half years and it

was just all full of gang banging it

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: was so bad then when i was

twenty one years old and in two thousand

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: two they just opened the door like

oh yeah your time is done you can

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: go no probation no parole no oversight

just time’s done what did you think i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: was going to do here i am

twenty one years old i have no fear

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m fully ingratiated into gang culture and

you just open the door and unleashed me

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: on small town michigan what do you

think i’m going to do

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i robbed a dude the first day

i was out i went to a gas

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: station and robbed him because i don’t

know what the l i’m going to do

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i don’t have any money give me

seventy five dollars and three condums at seventy

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: five dollars lasted

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: an hour i don’t now what i’m

going to do so i immediately got into

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: robbing people and i was just it

was a train wreck right like i didn’t

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: give a ship about anybody anything i

felt the world had owed me something i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: felt somehow the world fucked over and

you owe me for everything that i have

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: been through my life so i decided

to take it out on everybody and i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: justified

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it in my own mind by saying

by telling myself that i was carmasinforced right

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: if something bad happens

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to you it’s because karma karma

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: is a bitch and so if karma

is happening to you’ve done something bad in

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: your life to deserve it and i’m

just the conduit that that karma is using

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: reap it it’s it’s punishment on you

and i used that in my mind to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: justify the ship that i was doing

and it was bad i got two girls

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: pregnant was only out for twenty two

months i got two girls pregnant on opposite

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: sides of the of the country one

in michigan one in arizona and and august

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of two thousand two i came back

to michigan and i start i’m doing a

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: home invasion ring with a buddy of

mine just to collect ship and make some

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: money and started robin drug dealers and


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: became a very lucrative thing to rob

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a drug dealer right and i’m thinking

to myself well what you can do you’re

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: not going to call the cops tell

story of your drugs right

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah that’s a thing

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you can’t do that either and in

september second two thousand four t was a

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: very bad and violent altercation because one

of the guys that i was going to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: rob turned out the pedifile and so

i had some internal aggression apparently and i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: unleashed on him pretty badly and i

got arrested for that that day and i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: plead a bunch of plea deals got

the violent felony dismissed because of the plea

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: agreement and pled to twenty felonies and

got twelve years uh and so back to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: prison i go at twenty three years

old twenty four and now i got twelve

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: years thirty five felonies and i’m like

jesus what am i doing in my life

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m just sucking up and so i

go back to prison

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: in the first six years of that

bit over four years of that but we’re

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: pretty much the same fell right back

into the gang thing that was comfortable for

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: me you know i fell in there

i knew i had a reputation anyway and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and then in two thousand eight my

brother i only had one sibling decided that

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: he was going to have an affair

with the mother of my oldest son and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: at that time that was like the

only thing that i really cared about my

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: life was my oldest son and his


[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and you know she would bring the

baby up to see me all the time

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: while i’m incarcerated in then that stopped

like and that something snapped in me on

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that too i’m thinking you know because

loyalty is a big thing to me and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: my brother and i had

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: done a lot of stuff in that

little two years that i was out and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i just i snapped and i heard

a guy really badly and they gave me

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: five years in the hole and i’m

thinking chat so i get to the hole

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and across the hall for me is

this muslim dude the malory babe who just

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: starts calling over to me every day

like hey why boy hey my boy come

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: talk to me man and for the

first week i just i cut this dude

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: out every day like shut up u

up man i don’t know why you’re talking

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to me we are not on the

same team i don’t fucking like you i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: will stab you in the face if

i see you shut the fuck up talking

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to me and he never stopped every

day come talk to me i got to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: talk to you an so i got

loneliness kicks in after about a week or

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so and i go up like what

dude what what do you want to talk

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: about and i’ll never forget the two

things that’s to me why are you so

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: angry what

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: are you passionate about in your life

and it just it blew me away that

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: he asked me those two questions and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i had no answer for it right

i’m like

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and he’s like come holler at me

when you when you when you have an

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: answer and i sat and i thought

about it for a couple of days and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i just i got no answer for

it right i don’t know what i’m passionate

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: about my

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: life and i can hate everything and

everybody so that’s why i’m so angry and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: over the course of the next nineteen

months this man changed my life he introduced

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: me to philosophy and stoicism and self

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: help and self healing and caring and

love and empathy and comp should and help

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: me to feel every emotion that you

can i re played my life over and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: over and over and analyzed every moment

of hurt and happiness and joy and love

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and angry and so they started to

change in me i started to think like

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: life is not over right i’m only

at that

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: point like twenty seven years old like

life’s not over i’m going to get out

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of here when i’m thirty five there’s

plenty of life left to live and and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i had to define a passion i

knew that like i love music music was

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a passion for me i started singing

all time in the whole and it became

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a thing people would call down and

make request a man sing that one song

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that that super man son what if

that and so

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i would sing songs

[Nick McGowan]: uh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and u

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and i started writing essays and one

of the tests that he had me do

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: was write out my own obituary right

and take it very seriously

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and so i did and i highly

recommend anybody to do this sit down and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: take it seriously right right your own

obituary from the perspective of the five people

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you care about the most and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it literally will give you a blue

print to what you want in life and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so after doing that i started reading

every book i could get my hands on

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: john c maxwell all the leadership series

personality plus everything i could read philosophy the

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: art award forty laws of power the

prince by macavelli

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i just started reading all these things

and it really helped me to see like

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: everything that happened in my life was

like manifestation right like you manifest everything

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: in life if you think the day

is going to suck it’s going to suck

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: if you think that something bad is

going to have and eventually it’s going to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: happen and on the flip side of

that if you if you know that something

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: good is going to happen it will

if you think that

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you’re going to succeed and you believe

in your heart that you’re going to succeed

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you will here i am facing five

years in the whole and i’m telling myself

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m not doing all five years not

doing all five of this i started to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: write essays more and more started sending

it out to the activities co ordinator and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the facility and she started coming down

and saying these are really good and they

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: came back with this pro

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m called thinking for a change

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a new program they were instituting the

facility and said we’d like you to read

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: over the course material and if you’re

comfortable we would like you to teach a

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: class and if you teach

[Nick McGowan]: nice

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that class and you do well we’ll

let out of the whole early manifestation i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: said i wasn’t going to do all

five years in this hole and there

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: here’s at here’s an i didn’t have

any ado here so i started studying the

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: material boom and it told it shows

you how to think before you act and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so it was a really good program

i liked it and i signed up to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to t class and of course i

didn’t see the curve ball coming but they

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: put me in protective custody to teach

the class and i don’t know f yo

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know anything about prison but protective custody

is the absolute worst place to be in

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: prison

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: is full of the slimiest pieces of

ship known to man and i saw that

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: as a challenge like if i can

teach these guys think better and eighty percent

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of them our petifiles and we all

know that i have this

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: this innate hatred for pedifiles if i

can teach them to think differently i’ve mastered

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: myself and so

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i did i went in there and

i started teaching these guys how to think

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: how to stop and think before you

act before you do anything think stop and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: think and i had a wonderful success

rate with the class worked really well and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: they let me out of the hole

early i did at the nineteen months out

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of the five years they let me

out and

[Nick McGowan]: nice

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that’s when the challenges really start because

when they let me out of the hole

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: here comes the game right and the

gang is like oh my boy you’re out

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: now at this point i had sworn

off violence i had sworn off gang banging

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: all of it because i’m a different

person i’m seeing the world through the lens

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of love and kindness now i

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know that if i put out love

and kindness and everything that i see that’s

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: what i’m going to get back it’s

going to do you know you learn the

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: these wonderful things when you read about

stoicism and philosophy it shows you how love

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and light love and kindness are the

key everything we’re all born from love right

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and at some point

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: something just happened in your life that

derailed you off that path and you got

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to and we spend the rest of

our lives trying to get back to it

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and so i have this wonderful sense

of detachment my wife calls me the accidental

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: buddhist one buddha

[Nick McGowan]: m hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: is one of the things

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that i’ve never really studied

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: but i have a wonderful sense of

detachment i can literally let anything go anything

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that hurts just let it go right

like it doesn’t bother me any more like

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i can talk to my uncle and

just high five like you actually helped

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: me bro like the ship that you

did to me as actually created me who

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i am right now so i get

out of the whole gang comes back and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: like hey listen done i’m over it

and and they don’t like that they’re like

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: no no no you can’t just quit

and it’s like well i am quitting i’m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: not going to do it and you

can’t force me nobody in this earth can

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: force me to do anything i don’t

want to and so that led to them

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: jumping me and beating the shit out

of me all the time and it got

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to the point where i said you

know what i have to draw a line

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: in the sand i’m aware of the

environment that i’m in if you touch me

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: one more time i am going to

seriously fuck you up stop touching me just

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: leave me to funk alone and they

didn’t and they jumped me one more time

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: in the bathroom and

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i decided at that point i was

going to make an exception and went up

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to the leader of the gang on

the yard at that point and i seriously

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: fucked him up bad and they left

me alone after that they never touched me

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: again and i mean to this day

that’s the one thing that i still kind

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of i have no regrets because i

think everything that happens in life happens for

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: experiential purposes

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and it puts us in the position

that we are currently in um but that’s

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the one thing that i was mad

more mad at myself because i made a

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: vow to not be violent any more

and i saw no other way out you

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know and

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so i did it but i spent

the rest of my time teaching other men

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the things that i had learned we

started doing focus groups and study groups on

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the yard and i got into yoga

and started i mean i got thirty criminals

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: on the yard

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: doing downward facing

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: dog

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and it it and it’s actually funny

[Nick McGowan]: that’s cool

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: but i still stay in touch with

a nice group of them they’re all successful

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: people business owners home owners and i’ve

kind of mentor them on getting out

[Nick McGowan]: nice

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and so that kind of pushed me

towards wanting to be a motivational speaker in

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a mind set coach like i want

to i want to continue to help people

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: because this life that i live now

this mind set that i’m in now this

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: self mastery

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s amazing i like i can find

happiness anywhere you can put me in a

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: can filled with a bunch of killers

and i could be happy and you know

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: victor franke wrote the book man search

for meaning which

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: this is a guy that’s in the

hollow cost you know he’s an oushuwit and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: he still managed to smile and help

other people smile and it’s one

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of the most profound

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: books that i ever read and i

related to that heavily and i want to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: help people because just because i’m in

prison isn’t everybody can in prison right you

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: can be in prison even if you’re

out here like people get stuck in

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: their own minds in depression and sadness

and it’s a form of a prison and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i want to teach people how to

get out of that how you can overcome

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that because there’s nothing in this world

nothing in here that you can’t overcome that

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you can’t conquer with this right it’s

your biggest enemy but it’s your biggest said

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: as well

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and so i got out in august

of twenty six team and you know things

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: took a whole different course because i

was now able to put this stuff into

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: motion and it wasn’t it wasn’t easy

right like i’ve still had

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a lot of ups and downs that

that took place but that’s the next chapter

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: my life on this crazy little train

you want me to keep going

[Nick McGowan]: well i hope that your train

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: keeps going yes i find it super

interesting that you pull in victor frankell and

[Nick McGowan]: men search for meaning if

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: the audience if you haven’t read that


[Sonny Von Cleveland]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: you need to pause this go find

it and start reading it right now like

[Nick McGowan]: i allow

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: you to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: now

[Nick McGowan]: stop listening to the episode right

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: now go read it that is

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: all

[Nick McGowan]: one

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: of those

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and

[Nick McGowan]: life changing books which i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: amazing

[Nick McGowan]: find that i’ve actually read it at

a point where it was right before i

[Nick McGowan]: was getting a divorce and after i

finished that book that was one of those

[Nick McGowan]: moments where i was like this is

the path that i’m going on and i

[Nick McGowan]: found that different people i talked to

about that book are like i’ve read it

[Nick McGowan]: at a pivotal point right before that

pivotal point and that was the

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: thing that kind of pushed you over

so for you to say that that was

[Nick McGowan]: kind of similar in that sense let’s

break that down a little bit because if

[Nick McGowan]: you think about

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: where victor was he as a psychologist

and working normal life being and serving and

[Nick McGowan]: then boom next thing you know he’s

on a fucking train and the ship that

[Nick McGowan]: he went through and even getting those

points because you’ve brought this up a couple

[Nick McGowan]: of times where you had those break

points you’re like

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: i just snapped you snapped

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: when you were a little kid and

you went into the closet you snapped on

[Nick McGowan]: a couple people when you were older

and i figured out fun i can get

[Nick McGowan]: people to pay attention to me i’m

going to snap more but those big snaps

[Nick McGowan]: those things happen when you actually forced

to get that thing done because

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: your character comes out so

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: one hundred

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: per cent

[Nick McGowan]: it’s crazy that you’ve been through what

you’ve been through

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: but you’re not one of those people

that has taken it and kind of continue

[Nick McGowan]: down that path of negativity and there

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: are people that live a life where

they’re in that sort of prison like you’re

[Nick McGowan]: talking about and their nine to five

or their marriage or whatever and perspective is

[Nick McGowan]: a huge thing because if they can


[Sonny Von Cleveland]: huge

[Nick McGowan]: this and go oh funk

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: huge

[Nick McGowan]: at least it’s not that sort of

situation but what sort of advice would you

[Nick McGowan]: give them that you managed

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: like how you manage your mindset in

those split moments you know

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: one of the things that i

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: learned early in my transformation phase during

the nineteen months in the whole was that

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: pain and sadness and loneliness and despair

become comfortable right because you know what’s coming

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you know what to expect right ike


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know what hurt feels like so you

get to a point where you’re like yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i can handle that oh i’m sad

it doesn’t

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it doesn’t have the impact that it

had the first time you were sad like

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: there’s some things that are so excruciatingly

painful that you never do it again go

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: grab fire s a one time thing

you’ll never do that

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ship again

[Nick McGowan]: learned yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right got it

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that and you just don’t do it

again because you understand that level of hurt

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that’s actual

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: pain right that’s like fear of death

pain right like so a little bit of

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: sadness and pain is like it’s like

it’s a muscle right your memory is like

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a muscle your mind is like a


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: if you ever go to the gym

and you work out the first time you

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ever did a work out it sucked

a couple of days later like that ship

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: hurt right but it

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: wasn’t such a traumatic pain that you

didn’t want to keep doing it you kept

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: doing it and then you grew stronger

and it became easier and the more you

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: did it the easier it is so

our voice is like is like working out

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right and that’s that’s your conduit to

healing the more you talk about things the

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: more you speak your feelings the easier

because it hurts to talk about it right

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: like to say that i was raped

by two men people don’t expect somebody that

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: looks like me that’s been through eighteen

years in prison or some ship to talk

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: about that right because a lot of

it happens to

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: one and six boys in this in

this world are molested and they don’t talk

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: about it because we got smacofkan thing

that we’re not supposed to talk about it

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right and but the more you speak

it the more he less it affects you

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and the easier it is to talk

about it right so that’s

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: how you heal it’s just like healing

it’s just like your muscle it’s just like

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: soreness that goes away after time you

can talk about you speak it and speak

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it we we we are separated from

every other living entity on this earth by

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: our voice we are the only creatures

that really can speak except for like a

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: king bird that can develop a sentence

but we’re the only ones that can really

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: speak so we can we have that

self awareness that we can talk about what

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: hurts us the problem is at the

pain and the sadness become comfortable and so

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: if somebody’s

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: listening to this right now and you’re

like my life it’s because you’re comfortable being

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: sad you’re comfortable being hurt you’re comfortable

being in pain and you don’t feel that

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you’re worthy of happiness because a lot

of times the biggest hurt came right behind

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the moment of the happiest time in

your life like when you were really in

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: love and you were really happy and

then she broke your heart and so now

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you are afraid

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to love again because you’re afraid that

that pain is going to come back so

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s easier to just be sad and

depressed all the damn time than go out

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of your comfort zone so that’s the

advice that i would give people that right

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: now if you’re just feeling stuck in

ruin life sucks it’s so much better to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: get on the other side start talking

about it and it doesn’t matter

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: who it is people are so afraid

of being judged pull a random stranger off

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and just dump all

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: your ship on him you know

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: what i mean you’ll be surprised who

you’d help with that because

[Nick McGowan]: sure

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: most of us have experienced the same

ship that most of us have right pain

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and trauma are

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: pain and trauma it doesn’t matter you

know that i have gone to prison and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: somebody else hasn’t it’s still pain right

t’s still trauma

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the mind process is it the same

we have the self defense mechanism that goes

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: up to try to protect ourselves from

being judged or being laughed at or being

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you know sought as anything less than

anybody else so we put up these defense

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: mechanisms to try to protect ourselves from

that but when you get comfortable with i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: don’t i don’t i don’t answer to

anybody else right this is my life i’m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the one that has to live this

i get to live this

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you don’t you get to live your

own life and my life is at the

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: end it ain’t none of your fucking

business in

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: your life is none of my fucking


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you know

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: what i mean but we both have

the same goal of happiness right everybody deserves

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to be happy so if you’re listening

you deserve to be happy the only thing

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: preventing you from being happy is yourself

you are the only one that can make

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the choice to stop being miserable and

start being happy and you can it’s like

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the art of not giving a funk


[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you if you

[Nick McGowan]: thank

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: can

[Nick McGowan]: you

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: master

[Nick McGowan]: mark manson

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the art of not giving a funk

[Nick McGowan]: yet

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you’re going to be so much happier

like and not giving a

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: funk doesn’t mean that that you’re some

cold hearted uncaring person it just means that

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m not going to allow you to

rent space in my mind to dictate how

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i live and

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i mean i’m one of the most

compassionate people your er gonna see i volunteer

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: out at home less shelters i’m an

ambassador for buda bullying go into schools and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: talk to kids about bullying and teach

parents and teachers and give them tools to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: recognize bullying and understand the genesis of

it and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: try to help kids stop being bullied

so i’m by far not some selfish prick

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that doesn’t care about the world but

on the other hand i don’t give a

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ship what you think about me i

don’t care if

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you don’t like me that’s your problem

not mine i’m happy and i’m going to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: continue to be happy and my hat

this doesn’t prevent anybody else from being happy

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and i think that that’s a key

thing you know

[Nick McGowan]: i agree it’s absolutely keeping i do

think that subconsciously even most people will look

[Nick McGowan]: for other people to tell them how

they should be and they

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: look for those people around them and

then they pect ed to be one way

[Nick McGowan]: and then they look at you and

they’ll judge because it’s not because it’s not

[Nick McGowan]: really what they’re feeling so you live

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: in a state where you’re like i

don’t really

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: m

[Nick McGowan]: give a funk because i really do

actually give a funk

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: but i’ll give a funk about the

things that ive a funk about and the

[Nick McGowan]: other things i don’t give a funk

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: and it’s

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you know

[Nick McGowan]: beautiful

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and and you see it a lot

of it in the person who’s like i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: don’t give focus

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: people think about me with your goddamn

[Nick McGowan]: i do

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: gooch sun glasses and your

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: super thousand dollar suits and your six

hundred dollar nice shoes and like the only

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: reason you’re wearing that ship is to

impress other people like you’re really not comfortable

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: in that chip i’m comfortable as

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: hell in my three dollar boot bullying

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: t shirt and all this and i

mean i’ve been known to go to these

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: these business events out here in the

freak t shirt and jeans like i’m comfortable

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: now i’m not here to impress you

let me my goal is to teach people

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to one of the the epictetus seneca

one of the greatest stoics of all time

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: we’re all here for the sake of

each other because we’re all community people we’re

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: here for the sake of each other


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: either teach or tolerate h and

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i don’t i’m not here to tolerate

i’m here to teach i believe that i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: was given a gift to because i

know how to read well i know how

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to write well i’m an articulate guy

you know what i mean in i believe

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that that was a gift and my

experiences were all part of that gift to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: help teach other people so that maybe

i can help somebody else avoid the ship

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that i went through because i wouldn’t


[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: anything that i’ve been through because that’s

what may me who i am but i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: believe i was given that gift to

try to help other people to avoid or

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: if you’ve gone through it already to

get over it and

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you know there’s we live in a

very sensitive culture

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: at this time we’re being olitically correct

and all that stuff is it’s big and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: then with cancel culture and all the

stuff a lot of people are afraid to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: actually say what is what needs to

be said and that’s get over it get

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: over your ship so what you know

bad ship happens that everybody get over it

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: because the only reason that you’re still

sad or depressed is because you’re allowing that

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ship to be there just get over

it because at the end of the day

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: nobody else really gives a funk either

you know i mean nobody

[Nick McGowan]: well they got

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: else

[Nick McGowan]: their own ship to get

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: over

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: everybody’s

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: got

[Nick McGowan]: get

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: their

[Nick McGowan]: through

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: own ship so nobody’s you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know you see somebody put a post

out oh my life is so bad i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: just don’t understand why nobody actually gives

a funk about what just said you might

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: get a couple of likes from people

that feel indebted to like your ship because

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: they call you a friend but

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: nobody actually read that and there like

this poor person should i should do something

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: they don’t give a shit

[Nick McGowan]: stroll

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: got their own ship to deal with

[Nick McGowan]: their like out scroll

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right like keep going right nobody

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: they don’t want actually care so when

you when you come to understand that nobody

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: actually really gives a ship you can

it’s easier for you to stop giving a

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ship and

[Nick McGowan]: yes

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: start focusing on what makes you happy

and do that

[Nick McGowan]: a man absolutely

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: the fact of giving a ship to

the point where you actually understand that you

[Nick McGowan]: care enough about other things that you

care about to give your time and to

[Nick McGowan]: that there’s a beautiful level where a

lot of people kind of live at the

[Nick McGowan]: let’s say surface level of that where

the pain hurts enough for them to bitch

[Nick McGowan]: about it but they really don’t want

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: to do the things that they want

to do as a coach i know you

[Nick McGowan]: get this you probably talk about this

with your clients like i do with mine

[Nick McGowan]: you’ve got to be able

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: to be aware of

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: oh

[Nick McGowan]: what the fuck the problem is before

you can do anything about it

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: have

[Nick McGowan]: then from

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to

[Nick McGowan]: that

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: isolate

[Nick McGowan]: being able to figure

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the problem

[Nick McGowan]: out yeah and you fig

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yah

[Nick McGowan]: what are you keeping

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: h

[Nick McGowan]: what are you getting rid of and

what are the meanings to all those but

[Nick McGowan]: i think a lot of people are

just so afraid of the unknown of that

[Nick McGowan]: because they think like holy

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: ship this is going to be such

a monster and they don’t go near it

[Nick McGowan]: because they have this giant big hairy

scary monster image in their head and it’s

[Nick McGowan]: not always real the ship that you’ve


[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: through the scary fucked up and demonic

moments that had happened to you and things

[Nick McGowan]: that

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: had

[Nick McGowan]: you

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a lot

[Nick McGowan]: poured out well those things i do

think in some ways and it can be

[Nick McGowan]: easy for me to say this not

having gone through your ship but i’ve go

[Nick McGowan]: through my own ship that i’ve noticed

that people look to that and go oh

[Nick McGowan]: well i had something that was a

little less so i can see where you’re

[Nick McGowan]: coming from they can

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: relate with that like you can have

different conversations

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: sure

[Nick McGowan]: i think about think about people that

you’ve talked to that probably can’t have a

[Nick McGowan]: conversation with some of the people that

are in some of those previous circles that

[Nick McGowan]: you’re part of you can have

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: fucking conversations with those people because they

have a level of respect or at least

[Nick McGowan]: can connect with you off the bat

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: where somebody

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and understanding

[Nick McGowan]: has a bible thumper

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: sir

[Nick McGowan]: or something of that sort a whole

different story

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ah

[Nick McGowan]: but they can connect with

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: people would be harder

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: for you to connect with so it’s

almost like we’re

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: here to be able to connect with


[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: at a certain level that we’re able

to get to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and i love to connect and talk

with everybody because i’m going to learn something

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: from you whether i agree

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: with you or not

[Nick McGowan]: ah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you know i’m going to learn something

from you and and learn we all learn

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: every day and that’s another key

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to growing is to be receptive of

your ability to learn you know a lot

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of people we’ll put up a block

if you know he’s a trumper i i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: don’t want to talk to

[Nick McGowan]: no

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that mother under at all you don’t

know why he’s a trumper though you don’t

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know if he

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: was you know born under this this

brain washed militant mind set that we all

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: grew up in worshipping a goddamn flag

so he might just be this who us

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: doesn’t no

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: trump at all but he’s a trumper

and you block yourself off to the beauty

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that is that human being because he

has beautiful

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: things to offer the world you just

don’t want to talk to him right

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and so i avoid politics like the

plague because it’s always just you know it’s

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s a ship

[Nick McGowan]: slippery

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: show

[Nick McGowan]: slope yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s a very slippery slope but again

[Nick McGowan]: ye

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s another distractive mechanism put into place

to distract

[Nick McGowan]: yep

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: people from being happy like if you

learn to not give a shit about politics

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you’re going to be that much more

happier in like like shit

[Nick McGowan]: and

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: about

[Nick McGowan]: totally

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it all

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: it’s funny there are people that will

bitch about things like how often do you

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: watch the news there like every night


[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: so do we need to continue this

conversation or did

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right

[Nick McGowan]: you get the fucking point

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and

[Nick McGowan]: yea

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and what they don’t realize is you

know fat people are fat because they invest

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a whole lot of food skinny people


[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: skinny because they don’t invest a whole

lot of food

[Nick McGowan]: yeah oh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: if you are what you invest it’s

the same thing mentality wise if you sit

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: down and watch the news every day

guess what you’re you’re in jesting ship because

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: all the news is is depressing sad

ship and so when you’re watching that you’re

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: going to be a sad depressed person

because once you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: take in you’re gonna want to talk

about you’re goin a wan to put out

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the same

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: thing you took in and you know

just like food goes in what has it

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: come out as it comes out a

ship and so if you

[Nick McGowan]: there’s

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ingest

[Nick McGowan]: that slippery slope

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right if you ingest good

[Nick McGowan]: oh

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: positive and stuff

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and just posit

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: tivity you’re going to start living that

you know if you wake like i wake

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: up every day and i read the

daily stoic by ron holiday it’s or ryan

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: holiday amazing the dude take some time

out of his life to send an email

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: every day the daily stoic and you

just read about stoics and how they live

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: their life in these men like marcus

aurelius it like

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: this guy lived in such a shipty

world and he was such a happy dude

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and he wrote down so much stuff

for people to and he didn’t even write

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it for anybody else he wrote it

for himself for his own personal journals but

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: what we can

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: learn from that is as how to

be happy in a world that’s falling apart

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right and every day you just ingest

good stuff and your life

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: is going to be that

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you are what you

[Nick McGowan]: m hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you take in

[Nick McGowan]: i love that point so i also

read the daily stoic and you’d

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yes

[Nick McGowan]: mentioned john c maxwell earlier

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: es

[Nick McGowan]: i have a daily devotional from john

and those are two of my daily readers

[Nick McGowan]: along with the bible and then whatever

books i read like right now i’m going

[Nick McGowan]: through the tipping point so for the

audience i want you to take note of

[Nick McGowan]: that you’ve

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: do

[Nick McGowan]: heard

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it

[Nick McGowan]: this on different episodes where we read

something or journal in the morning so if

[Nick McGowan]: you’re not doing that funk and try

it just straight

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it

[Nick McGowan]: try me see what happens

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: do it

[Nick McGowan]: with it because the daily stoic

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: what

[Nick McGowan]: is

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: do you what

[Nick McGowan]: one

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: do you

[Nick McGowan]: page

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: have to lose right you got nothing

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to lose i take ten minutes of

your morning you got nothing to lose

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: try it if you don’t like it

stop doing it but you’re probably

[Nick McGowan]: try it

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: going

[Nick McGowan]: out

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to keep doing it right

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s

[Nick McGowan]: i

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: good

[Nick McGowan]: mean that’s

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: stuff

[Nick McGowan]: probably where we challenge ourselves and kind

of grew from

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: one

[Nick McGowan]: there

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: hundred per cent and

[Nick McGowan]: but look man

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and find some type of faith man

you know

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s it’s yeah i’m not an organized

religious guy right like i i’m an odinist

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m danish so i’m a big follower

of the religion of the vikings i absolutely

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: love it but i have studied the

bible more than most christians and

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know it front to

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: back and you’re only going to benefit

if you if you read it you know

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: what i mean

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s if you give yourself something again

spirituality and positivity it changes you right like

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it gives you

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: something happy and positive i don’t give

a ship what religion you do because all

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: religions

[Nick McGowan]: not

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: at

[Nick McGowan]: about

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the

[Nick McGowan]: religion

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: or core are good right it’s not


[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: religion it’s about it’s about spirituality and

knowing that we’re more

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: than what we accept of being you

know what i mean

[Nick McGowan]: yeah and on that note you know

it it’s been a pleasure to have you

[Nick McGowan]: on man and i appreciate you getting

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: thanks

[Nick McGowan]: in everything

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: man

[Nick McGowan]: you get into and we can probably

sit here for another three hours ship

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah

[Nick McGowan]: at some

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: because

[Nick McGowan]: point

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i

[Nick McGowan]: you

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: mean

[Nick McGowan]: will

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: we

[Nick McGowan]: come

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: just

[Nick McGowan]: back

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: got

[Nick McGowan]: on

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to

[Nick McGowan]: the

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the

[Nick McGowan]: show

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: point where we got out of prison

because there’s

[Nick McGowan]: yeah

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: been a whole music career there’s ben

an entire you tube career there’s been a

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: corporate career there’s there’s a whole lot

of ship that’s happened

[Nick McGowan]: m

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: just since i’ve been out so

[Nick McGowan]: yeah man

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: we’ll

[Nick McGowan]: we’ll

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: have to

[Nick McGowan]: have

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: do

[Nick McGowan]: to

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it

[Nick McGowan]: do

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: again

[Nick McGowan]: another episode or two but why don’t

you give us some sort of advice to

[Nick McGowan]: the people that are on their path

towards self mastery and kind of wrap this

[Nick McGowan]: thing up for us

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: oh just be authentic man authenticity it’s

scary right or you’re going to be afraid

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of losing people at one point in

in this crazy i achieved global fame on

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you tube i had over fifty thousand

subscribers and people followed non stop and i’ve

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: lost almost all of that simply by

being authentic in it hurts way less than

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you think it’s going to hurt it’s

it’s okay to lose your your new life

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: will cost you your old one and

if you’re not happy with the life that

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you currently have you have nothing but

to gain from getting a new life let

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: this one go and start over you

can start

[Nick McGowan]: hm

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: over any moment there’s nothing to prevent

you you can start over at any moment

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you can start over right in now

[Nick McGowan]: right now awesome

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right now

[Nick McGowan]: right now sonny you’re the man appreciate

you being on

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: thanks

[Nick McGowan]: we’ll

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: man

[Nick McGowan]: definitely have you back at some point

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i appreciate

[Nick McGowan]: where can people

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you nick

[Nick McGowan]: find you where can where

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: uh

[Nick McGowan]: can people connect

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: just

[Nick McGowan]: with you

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: google son ivan cleveland and you’ll find

everything from there there’s going to be a

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: link to everything if you just google

at sunny van cleveland on all platforms you

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: just pop it in you’re gonna find


[Nick McGowan]: beautiful i’ll have some of that in

the show notes as well again it’s been

[Nick McGowan]: a pleasure having you all and i

appreciate your time

[Sonny Von Cleveland]: thank you so much

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