Episode summary: Sonny Von Cleveland endured a rough childhood. He experienced sexual abuse from multiple men starting from the age of 5. At 7, he started to get into trouble. He broking into a church and committed theft. He was arrested and found himself addicted to getting in trouble with the police, as he kind of saw them as father figures.
As Sonny started to get older, he started to get into more trouble. As a teenager, he stole from his school’s safe and that was the last straw and he was sent to prison. Going to prison, he encounter sexual abuse again and he snapped.
He was done being the victim and Sonny turned off all emotions. He became violent and did as he pleased. He was in and out of prison for a while until a certain man changed his life. He helped Sonny self-heal, accept emotions, learn empathy and sympathy, and really got him in touch with himself.
From there, Sonny realized what all he had done to others, what others have done to him, he learned the power of manifestation, and swore off any criminal activity. Sonny’s life was not over and he was not defined by his past. His life was just now starting and he has so much to offer the world.
Guest Name & Bio: Sonny Von Cleveland, born and raised in the countryside of Mid-Michigan, is an entertainer and musician who has overcome many obstacles in his life and used the lessons learned from those experiences to teach and guide others in the art of overcoming and persevering.
Through music, speaking, and entertaining, Sonny uses his school of hard knocks style educational leadership to inspire people to embrace living life to its fullest and finding your core happiness.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION
[Nick McGowan]: Hey Sonny welcome to the show [Nick McGowan]: man how you doing? [Sonny Von Cleveland]: oh nick good man thank you for having me it’s a pleasure to be here [Nick McGowan]: absolutely i’m excited man we’ve been kind of shooting the shit for a couple minutes before we hit record here and i think we’re on have a great conversation but i know you’ve also got some deep shit for us to get into so i feel like this one is going to be one of those heart string ones but has a redemptive ending to it so i’m not going to give this whole thing away but i know we’re in for a good one [Nick McGowan]: so hey man why don’t you give us some context what do you do for a living and tell us one thing that most people don’t know you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre [Sonny Von Cleveland]: ah well so as for what ido i’m kind of a i just live
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: my life i don’t really have onespecific thing that i do like i try
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: new ship all the time but [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m a content creator entertainer motivational speakermindset coach and entrepreneur um um currently i’m
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: in the process of opening a catcafe in palm springs figured we tried that
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: out were setting [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: up [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: a franchised cat f that we’re hopingthat’s going to take off and do well
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: which we know it well because wemanifest success in our life and i’ve gotten
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: into photography lately so i have acouple photo shoots lined up tonight tomorrow night
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to go do some photo shoots ata couple of venus here in palm springs
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’ve really been into that lately contentcreator on you tube a new reactions not
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so much any more but i didfor a long
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: time did actions on you tubes havea youtube channel as well and twitch twitch
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: gaming as well and i’m also ametal vocalist so haven’t been doing much of
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that lately but still a metal vocalistonce a metal localist always a medal vocalist
[Nick McGowan]: always yes [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and something people might not know about [Nick McGowan]: oh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: me it’s a little weird i ama freaking die hard being dinner i love
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: dudgingent drag man [Nick McGowan]: nice [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i haven’t been able to play because [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i can’t find any other d andd ords around but i’m a die hard
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: fantasy nut i love everything [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: from the lord of the ring typegenera and a big dan
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: de nut so not a lot ofpeople know that i hope that hope i
[Nick McGowan]: oh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: didn’t just lose cool points for thatthough cool
[Nick McGowan]: no man [Sonny Von Cleveland]: people [Nick McGowan]: not [Sonny Von Cleveland]: play [Nick McGowan]: at all [Sonny Von Cleveland]: dungeons and dragons [Nick McGowan]: yeah i think there’s a there’s alevel of being real and honest with yourself
[Nick McGowan]: that some people don’t ever get tolike i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ah [Nick McGowan]: even think with games like that wherethey’re like oh no no that was for
[Nick McGowan]: nord’s because somebody told me that wheni was a little kid and i never
[Nick McGowan]: experienced it it’s like well and howdo you know like i don’t know but
[Nick McGowan]: i really like that show heroes reallyinto
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: something else i find you’re like thenwhat the fuck look at the translation here
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you know what ninety five percent ofpeople live to impress other fucking people and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that’s ninety nine percent of ninety fivepercent of people’s problem ye
[Nick McGowan]: yeah man before we go down thatpath because i think that could be a
[Nick McGowan]: solid path we [Sonny Von Cleveland]: uh [Nick McGowan]: get down we need to go backto
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: h [Nick McGowan]: you’re talking about doing let’s say coachingand content creating but then you throw in
[Nick McGowan]: a cat cafe [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right just [Nick McGowan]: so [Sonny Von Cleveland]: out of nowhere [Nick McGowan]: what [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right so i mean it kind ofties into the
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: entire story of this mad crazy trainthat is my life but my wife that
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: my wife now and we moved topalm springs about about a year ago last
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: june and we we’re both entrepreneurial spiritsand we have
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: innate desire to hustle and we wedon’t ever want to work for anybody else
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ever again again i don’t i’m nothere for other people’s use
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and so we decided on a businesswhere like we need to start a business
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and what do we want to doand we actually toy with the idea of
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a jewelry store at first because we’rebig travelers so we do a lot of
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: traveling and we were like we couldgo and design jewelry and other cool little
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: things that based on where we’ve gonebut we both have this innate desire to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: help people we want to give backto the world and leave a legacy and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: there’s really nothing no a jewelry storethat you can help the world with so
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: we quickly scraped that idea after lookingat a couple of places and options and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: we were sitting on the porch ofa airbnb that we were stating at and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: she just came out with it she’slike i visited a cat cafe once in
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: virginia maybe we should do a catcafe yes let’s do a cat cat
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: fat that would be sweet i wentto bristo school down in san diego to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: learn how to be a bari andwe just put the ball in motion was
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: like you know let’s just put onefoot in front of the other and do
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it it’s become a thing now friskybusiness cat cafe pretty bad as
[Nick McGowan]: and that is cool so what doesthat look like forgive me if i sound
[Nick McGowan]: completely ignorant but is it a bunchof cats
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so [Nick McGowan]: and literally a cafe [Sonny Von Cleveland]: pretty much it’s it’s kind of atrending
[Nick McGowan]: right [Sonny Von Cleveland]: business it started in japan [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: there’s a hundred and twenty five registeredat cafes in the united states twelve in
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: california alone and it’s [Nick McGowan]: a [Sonny Von Cleveland]: a cough shop it’s like a coffeehouse that has cats in it for adoption
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so that [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: so we’re a partner with a palmsprings animal shelter they will provide kittens for
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: us and it’s it’s so ours inparticular is a century modern lounge that’s
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: kind of on the class her sidemy wife’s from england so she loves you
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know the path side of things andit’s mid century modern and there will be
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: about twelve cats in there at anyone time so you come in and you
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: can get coffee and pastry or bisketor a doughnut or sandwich and then go
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: into the lounge and just hang outwith cats and cuddle with some cats and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: play with them and hopefully you fallin love with one of them and adopt
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it and take it home oh [Nick McGowan]: that is [Sonny Von Cleveland]: that’s [Nick McGowan]: a [Sonny Von Cleveland]: the [Nick McGowan]: pretty [Sonny Von Cleveland]: concept [Nick McGowan]: genius idea yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s pretty dope i liked it fromthe moment she’s talked about it and so
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: we went and visited several of themhere in california went out to lay at
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: san diego and checked out some and [Nick McGowan]: h [Sonny Von Cleveland]: really cool [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: concepts man we’re big animal lovers tooand you
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: know most people avoid like animal sheltersbecause it tugs at your heart strings and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: feel like ship and [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: if you’re like us you end upleaving with several animals and
[Nick McGowan]: h [Sonny Von Cleveland]: so this [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: helps with the visibility of the catsso that they’ll get seen more because people
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: don’t have a problem coming into acat cafe so we’re just we’re trying to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: help get these cats adopted out andjust do something cool for the world you
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know [Nick McGowan]: it’s awesome man i’ll be honest withyou i’m not really a cat person i’m
[Nick McGowan]: not one of those people that hatesthem but i’m more of a dog person
[Nick McGowan]: and when i [Sonny Von Cleveland]: me [Nick McGowan]: look [Sonny Von Cleveland]: too [Nick McGowan]: at that sort of stuff and somebodysays a cat cafe my brain just goes
[Nick McGowan]: to the very surface level of itwhere yeah at the court there’s cats and
[Nick McGowan]: it’s a cafe but the fact thatyou’re able to actually kind of elevate where
[Nick McGowan]: people aren’t going to they’re not goingto
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: go i know i do the samething when i had two dogs years ago
[Nick McGowan]: that we got them from a rescuebut we didn’t want to go and see
[Nick McGowan]: all the dogs because almost felt likewe were going to take them all home
[Nick McGowan]: we [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: were going to have to fix thisproblem
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it tugs at your heart screens whenyou see a dog sit
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: here like please love me and you’relike oh
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: my god [Nick McGowan]: i want them all [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: but being able to walk in andget coffee and hang out and if somebody
[Nick McGowan]: connects with that animal and they’re ableto take that home i mean in some
[Nick McGowan]: ways that could be such a magicalday for that person
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: to go in coffee and i gotthis beloved
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you [Nick McGowan]: animal [Sonny Von Cleveland]: know [Nick McGowan]: at this point [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and and and and [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: the most of them won’t adopt thecat right so it’s still
[Nick McGowan]: sure [Sonny Von Cleveland]: because there’s a huge temographic of peoplethat can’t have them but still love them
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: like [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: there’s lots of cat [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: lovers [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: videos are the number one thing viewedon youtube so there’s a lot of people
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: love cats and so you know likethe elderly community that comes in they’ll come
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: in just to hang out with thecat have no plans of adopting
[Nick McGowan]: uh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: it but they just want to comein and cuddle with the cat and hang
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: out with it and go home soit’s it’s just a laid back atmosphere that
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: people can vibe with an animal andenjoy a
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: wonderful cup of coffee [Nick McGowan]: and you kind of charge them rentat that point like look you can sit
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i [Nick McGowan]: here [Sonny Von Cleveland]: should [Nick McGowan]: an have one cup of coffee fortwenty
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: five dollars or whatever [Sonny Von Cleveland]: well yeah [Nick McGowan]: uh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: saw so it’s a twenty two dollar [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: fee and you [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: get a forty five [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: minute session so you can go andbuy your in forty five minutes in in
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the lounge with the cats and thenwe
[Nick McGowan]: oh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: do [Nick McGowan]: that’s cool [Sonny Von Cleveland]: events [Nick McGowan]: man [Sonny Von Cleveland]: their normal hours we’re doing like dragbingo and we
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: have other [Nick McGowan]: oh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: cool shows that are lined up likeshe’s doing a mad chatter tea party because
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: she’s from [Nick McGowan]: uh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: england and she loves tea so [Nick McGowan]: uh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: people come in and enjoy it withthe cats and then you know got a
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: book club once a month or peoplecommit and do the book club thing with
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: cats running around and i think everythingis just kind of more laid back and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: cool with cats involved right [Nick McGowan]: you got to be a cool catagus [Sonny Von Cleveland]: got to be a cool cat i [Nick McGowan]: here [Sonny Von Cleveland]: see what [Nick McGowan]: you [Sonny Von Cleveland]: you [Nick McGowan]: go [Sonny Von Cleveland]: did there nick [Nick McGowan]: there [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i like [Nick McGowan]: you go [Sonny Von Cleveland]: it [Nick McGowan]: that jokes for the wind so let’stake a little bit of a step back
[Nick McGowan]: because this is the u now andthe thing that’s happening
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: now that you’re passionate [Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: about you’re excited about but honestly dudelet’s kind of get into some of the
[Nick McGowan]: deep crazy ship that you’ve been through [Sonny Von Cleveland]: let’s do it [Nick McGowan]: the floor is yours my friend where [Sonny Von Cleveland]: oh [Nick McGowan]: would you like to start [Sonny Von Cleveland]: so i mean you kind of gotto start to start i’m from a small
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: town in michigan out in the boomdocks raised with a
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: bunch of red necks and at agefive i started getting molested by my uncle
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and from the age of five untili was ten i was molested by four
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: dudes m one [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: of my mom’s boy friends and coupleof friends of the family and it became
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: commonplace for me right like felt likealmost like this is just normal life how
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: this is supposed to have in afive year old can’t really process that kind
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of ship that’s going on in hismind when the sick
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: bastard is doing stuff to you andso that caused me to have a serious
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: day trust in men especially and inauthority figures so when i was seven years
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: old i got charged and convicted ofmy first felony i broke into a church
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and stole some ship and because it’ssmall town politics and my mom was like
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: this big anti government protester the localauthorities hated her and they too it out
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: on [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: us and i was charged [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and convicted of felony in nineteen eightyeight seven years old and i fell in
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: love with the attention from the policewhen they arrested me
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: because these are men that didn’t wantto touch my dick they just they were
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: like be a good kid discipline discipline [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: you ought to be a good kidby a blash and i was like well
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: damn that’s a dad figure and soi didn’t have a father and i really
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: liked that attention and so i continuedto break the law because that’s the only
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: way that these guys would come aroundright like i didn’t know how to get
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a cop to come around so ifi go and break something or if i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: break into something or if i stealsomething the cops come hey there they are
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and so i fell in love withthe attention from the judge and i’m i’m
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a entertainer by nature right like i’ma very outgoing
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: social type person and i love tointeract with people have to entertain love to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: saying love to make people laugh butwhen you’re being abused like that you become
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: reclusive right so there’s this dichotomy that’sgoing on inside of my little five six
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: seven year old mind where [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i want to be extraverted but i’mbeing abused so i’m being introverted and at
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the same time i’m very [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: compassionate and pathetic even towards the preditorsthat are abusing me i don’t want them
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to get in trouble i don’t wantthem to get hurt i don’t want the
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: other family members to get hurt soi’m just like what the fuck do i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: do i don’t know what to do [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: so my mother was a big shewas spiking to music it she was a
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: singer song writer and played guitar andshe had this amazing collective collection of music
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that were tapes in this tape boxeverything from elton john to led zepplin to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: meat loaf to white snake to poisonthe george straight and everything in between right
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and that was my go to iwould hide in the closet whenever her boy
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ends were around or you know theguys that were abusing me my own for
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a defense mechanism i would just goto the closet put the head phones on
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it and just lose myself in musicand again i was a big fan of
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: like labyrinth and secret of the nymand lord of the rings cartoons and all
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: these things and and [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i would go in there and iwould listen to music and fantasise about my
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: friends because i was a very extravertedperson that was forced to be introverted and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so i created [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: this own world inside this little closetof my own where i had friends you
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know i found it ventures and theygot the music and this kind of just
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: turned me into this a very imaginativechild that had this big vast imagination and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: but i also on the outside continuedto just get into trouble constantly and the
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: neve took me away they never putme in any foster homes or anything i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: don’t know if my mom blew thejudge or whatever to keep me out of
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: there but whatever it was they nevertook me away just always probation probation probation
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: which didn’t teach me anything so soby
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: time i’m thirteen i now have youknow ten falanies on my record and now
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m getting into drugs and alcohol andin sex in so when i turned sixteen
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i got sent to prison i stolesome money from my high school safe and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: they bound me over to adult courtto judge with scameve’s like you know what
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’ve done with you bound me overto adult court and they put me in
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: county jail for six months and sowhile i’m in there all these other charges
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: came up and my mom she tookoff she she was living in a on
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: state land in a tent with herthin boy friend she came into the county
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: jail the day i got sentenced ndwas like well you’re kind on your own
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: kid i love you i’m out andshe left for south carolina with her boy
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: friend so i was just kind ofleft to do this whole battle on my
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: own and then they just started comingwith all these charges and i didn’t know
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: much about legal ship i never reallypaid attention to it i just always listened
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to the lawyer and my lawyer waslike well all right just plead guilty to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: this and this and this and nextthing you know you got two to five
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: years well i don’t know what thatmeans but now you’re going to prison so
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a week later i’m on a busand i find myself in in quarantine ionia
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: michigan riverside which is weird riverside isthe name of the quarantine in the first
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: week i was in there i wasrated by two dudes they ran into my
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: cell and they had their way withme for about fifteen minutes and it was
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: at that point in my life thati snapped and i was like you know
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: what i’m never going to be avictim ever again i don’t give a ship
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: what have to do i will becomethe most vile vicious violent mother sucker you’ve
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ever seen i will never be victimizedagain and i did i went out and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i stabbed both of those assholes forwhat they did ah and i stopped caring
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: like i was no longer [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: afraid of physical pain [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: because i mean what are you goingto do to me that hasn’t already been
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: done [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and i i just kind of disconnectedemotionally like i just didn’t care about anything
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: any more and [Nick McGowan]: oh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: then they rode me out to alevel floor prison and i immediately fell in
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: with the gangs i went there andthe gang bangers saw me and i mean
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i took every lesson that i sawas soon as i hit the yard i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: found the biggest mother sucker went overthere and just started teeing off an i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and he beat my ass and he’slike what are you doing man you don’t
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: why are you doing it you don’thave i’m like i got to earn my
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: respect and it’s like man it’s adifferent time right this is not nineteen seventy
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: nine this is nineteen ninety eight likeyou don’t
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: have to do that any more justbe a respectful dude i don’t want to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: hear shityhead so anyway but the gangloved it so you know the gang came
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and approached me and i fell inlove with that gang culture because it’s like
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: brotherhood and family and [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and i never really had that soit’s like oh man i love that and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i knew that the only way thatthey were going to tinue that affection towards
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: me as if i was this violentdude so i was i mean i just
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it was a very bad train thati was on and i ended up doing
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: five and a half years and itwas just all full of gang banging it
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: was so bad then when i wastwenty one years old and in two thousand
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: two they just opened the door likeoh yeah your time is done you can
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: go no probation no parole no oversightjust time’s done what did you think i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: was going to do here i amtwenty one years old i have no fear
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m fully ingratiated into gang culture andyou just open the door and unleashed me
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: on small town michigan what do youthink i’m going to do
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i robbed a dude the first dayi was out i went to a gas
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: station and robbed him because i don’tknow what the l i’m going to do
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i don’t have any money give meseventy five dollars and three condums at seventy
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: five dollars lasted [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: an hour i don’t now what i’mgoing to do so i immediately got into
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: robbing people and i was just itwas a train wreck right like i didn’t
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: give a ship about anybody anything ifelt the world had owed me something i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: felt somehow the world fucked over andyou owe me for everything that i have
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: been through my life so i decidedto take it out on everybody and i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: justified [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: it in my own mind by sayingby telling myself that i was carmasinforced right
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: if something bad happens [Nick McGowan]: oh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: to you it’s because karma karma [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: is a bitch and so if karmais happening to you’ve done something bad in
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: your life to deserve it and i’mjust the conduit that that karma is using
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: reap it it’s it’s punishment on youand i used that in my mind to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: justify the ship that i was doingand it was bad i got two girls
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: pregnant was only out for twenty twomonths i got two girls pregnant on opposite
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: sides of the of the country onein michigan one in arizona and and august
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of two thousand two i came backto michigan and i start i’m doing a
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: home invasion ring with a buddy ofmine just to collect ship and make some
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: money and started robin drug dealers andthat
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: became a very lucrative thing to rob [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: a drug dealer right and i’m thinkingto myself well what you can do you’re
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: not going to call the cops tellstory of your drugs right
[Nick McGowan]: uh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah that’s a thing [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: you can’t do that either and inseptember second two thousand four t was a
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: very bad and violent altercation because oneof the guys that i was going to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: rob turned out the pedifile and soi had some internal aggression apparently and i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: unleashed on him pretty badly and igot arrested for that that day and i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: plead a bunch of plea deals gotthe violent felony dismissed because of the plea
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: agreement and pled to twenty felonies andgot twelve years uh and so back to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: prison i go at twenty three yearsold twenty four and now i got twelve
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: years thirty five felonies and i’m likejesus what am i doing in my life
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m just sucking up and so igo back to prison
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: in the first six years of thatbit over four years of that but we’re
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: pretty much the same fell right backinto the gang thing that was comfortable for
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: me you know i fell in therei knew i had a reputation anyway and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and then in two thousand eight mybrother i only had one sibling decided that
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: he was going to have an affairwith the mother of my oldest son and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: at that time that was like theonly thing that i really cared about my
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: life was my oldest son and hismother
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and you know she would bring thebaby up to see me all the time
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: while i’m incarcerated in then that stoppedlike and that something snapped in me on
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that too i’m thinking you know becauseloyalty is a big thing to me and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: my brother and i had [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: done a lot of stuff in thatlittle two years that i was out and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i just i snapped and i hearda guy really badly and they gave me
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: five years in the hole and i’mthinking chat so i get to the hole
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and across the hall for me isthis muslim dude the malory babe who just
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: starts calling over to me every daylike hey why boy hey my boy come
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: talk to me man and for thefirst week i just i cut this dude
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: out every day like shut up uup man i don’t know why you’re talking
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to me we are not on thesame team i don’t fucking like you i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: will stab you in the face ifi see you shut the fuck up talking
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to me and he never stopped everyday come talk to me i got to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: talk to you an so i gotloneliness kicks in after about a week or
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so and i go up like whatdude what what do you want to talk
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: about and i’ll never forget the twothings that’s to me why are you so
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: angry what [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: are you passionate about in your lifeand it just it blew me away that
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: he asked me those two questions and [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i had no answer for it righti’m like
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and he’s like come holler at mewhen you when you when you have an
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: answer and i sat and i thoughtabout it for a couple of days and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i just i got no answer forit right i don’t know what i’m passionate
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: about my [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: life and i can hate everything andeverybody so that’s why i’m so angry and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: over the course of the next nineteenmonths this man changed my life he introduced
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: me to philosophy and stoicism and self [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: help and self healing and caring andlove and empathy and comp should and help
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: me to feel every emotion that youcan i re played my life over and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: over and over and analyzed every momentof hurt and happiness and joy and love
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and angry and so they started tochange in me i started to think like
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: life is not over right i’m onlyat that
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: point like twenty seven years old likelife’s not over i’m going to get out
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of here when i’m thirty five there’splenty of life left to live and and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i had to define a passion iknew that like i love music music was
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a passion for me i started singingall time in the whole and it became
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a thing people would call down andmake request a man sing that one song
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that that super man son what ifthat and so
[Nick McGowan]: uh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i would sing songs [Nick McGowan]: uh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and u [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and i started writing essays and oneof the tests that he had me do
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: was write out my own obituary rightand take it very seriously
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and so i did and i highlyrecommend anybody to do this sit down and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: take it seriously right right your ownobituary from the perspective of the five people
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you care about the most and [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: it literally will give you a blueprint to what you want in life and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so after doing that i started readingevery book i could get my hands on
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: john c maxwell all the leadership seriespersonality plus everything i could read philosophy the
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: art award forty laws of power theprince by macavelli
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i just started reading all these thingsand it really helped me to see like
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: everything that happened in my life waslike manifestation right like you manifest everything
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: in life if you think the dayis going to suck it’s going to suck
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: if you think that something bad isgoing to have and eventually it’s going to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: happen and on the flip side ofthat if you if you know that something
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: good is going to happen it willif you think that
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: you’re going to succeed and you believein your heart that you’re going to succeed
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you will here i am facing fiveyears in the whole and i’m telling myself
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m not doing all five years notdoing all five of this i started to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: write essays more and more started sendingit out to the activities co ordinator and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the facility and she started coming downand saying these are really good and they
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: came back with this pro [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m called thinking for a change [Nick McGowan]: oh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: a new program they were instituting thefacility and said we’d like you to read
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: over the course material and if you’recomfortable we would like you to teach a
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: class and if you teach [Nick McGowan]: nice [Sonny Von Cleveland]: that class and you do well we’lllet out of the whole early manifestation i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: said i wasn’t going to do allfive years in this hole and there
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: here’s at here’s an i didn’t haveany ado here so i started studying the
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: material boom and it told it showsyou how to think before you act and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: so it was a really good programi liked it and i signed up to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to t class and of course ididn’t see the curve ball coming but they
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: put me in protective custody to teachthe class and i don’t know f yo
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know anything about prison but protective custodyis the absolute worst place to be in
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: prison [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: is full of the slimiest pieces ofship known to man and i saw that
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: as a challenge like if i canteach these guys think better and eighty percent
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of them our petifiles and we allknow that i have this
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: this innate hatred for pedifiles if ican teach them to think differently i’ve mastered
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: myself and so [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i did i went in there andi started teaching these guys how to think
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: how to stop and think before youact before you do anything think stop and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: think and i had a wonderful successrate with the class worked really well and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: they let me out of the holeearly i did at the nineteen months out
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of the five years they let meout and
[Nick McGowan]: nice [Sonny Von Cleveland]: that’s when the challenges really start becausewhen they let me out of the hole
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: here comes the game right and thegang is like oh my boy you’re out
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: now at this point i had swornoff violence i had sworn off gang banging
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: all of it because i’m a differentperson i’m seeing the world through the lens
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of love and kindness now i [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: know that if i put out loveand kindness and everything that i see that’s
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: what i’m going to get back it’sgoing to do you know you learn the
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: these wonderful things when you read aboutstoicism and philosophy it shows you how love
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and light love and kindness are thekey everything we’re all born from love right
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and at some point [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: something just happened in your life thatderailed you off that path and you got
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to and we spend the rest ofour lives trying to get back to it
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and so i have this wonderful senseof detachment my wife calls me the accidental
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: buddhist one buddha [Nick McGowan]: m hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: is one of the things [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: that i’ve never really studied [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: but i have a wonderful sense ofdetachment i can literally let anything go anything
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that hurts just let it go rightlike it doesn’t bother me any more like
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i can talk to my uncle andjust high five like you actually helped
[Nick McGowan]: oh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: me bro like the ship that youdid to me as actually created me who
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i am right now so i getout of the whole gang comes back and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: like hey listen done i’m over itand and they don’t like that they’re like
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: no no no you can’t just quitand it’s like well i am quitting i’m
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: not going to do it and youcan’t force me nobody in this earth can
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: force me to do anything i don’twant to and so that led to them
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: jumping me and beating the shit outof me all the time and it got
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to the point where i said youknow what i have to draw a line
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: in the sand i’m aware of theenvironment that i’m in if you touch me
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: one more time i am going toseriously fuck you up stop touching me just
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: leave me to funk alone and theydidn’t and they jumped me one more time
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: in the bathroom and [Nick McGowan]: oh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i decided at that point i wasgoing to make an exception and went up
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to the leader of the gang onthe yard at that point and i seriously
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: fucked him up bad and they leftme alone after that they never touched me
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: again and i mean to this daythat’s the one thing that i still kind
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of i have no regrets because ithink everything that happens in life happens for
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: experiential purposes [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and it puts us in the positionthat we are currently in um but that’s
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the one thing that i was madmore mad at myself because i made a
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: vow to not be violent any moreand i saw no other way out you
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know and [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: so i did it but i spentthe rest of my time teaching other men
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the things that i had learned westarted doing focus groups and study groups on
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the yard and i got into yogaand started i mean i got thirty criminals
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: on the yard [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: doing downward facing [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: dog [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and it it and it’s actually funny [Nick McGowan]: that’s cool [Sonny Von Cleveland]: but i still stay in touch witha nice group of them they’re all successful
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: people business owners home owners and i’vekind of mentor them on getting out
[Nick McGowan]: nice [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and so that kind of pushed metowards wanting to be a motivational speaker in
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a mind set coach like i wantto i want to continue to help people
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: because this life that i live nowthis mind set that i’m in now this
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: self mastery [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s amazing i like i can findhappiness anywhere you can put me in a
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: can filled with a bunch of killersand i could be happy and you know
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: victor franke wrote the book man searchfor meaning which
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: this is a guy that’s in thehollow cost you know he’s an oushuwit and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: he still managed to smile and helpother people smile and it’s one
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: of the most profound [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: books that i ever read and irelated to that heavily and i want to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: help people because just because i’m inprison isn’t everybody can in prison right you
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: can be in prison even if you’reout here like people get stuck in
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: their own minds in depression and sadnessand it’s a form of a prison and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i want to teach people how toget out of that how you can overcome
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that because there’s nothing in this worldnothing in here that you can’t overcome that
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you can’t conquer with this right it’syour biggest enemy but it’s your biggest said
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: as well [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and so i got out in augustof twenty six team and you know things
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: took a whole different course because iwas now able to put this stuff into
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: motion and it wasn’t it wasn’t easyright like i’ve still had
[Nick McGowan]: sure [Sonny Von Cleveland]: a lot of ups and downs thatthat took place but that’s the next chapter
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: my life on this crazy little trainyou want me to keep going
[Nick McGowan]: well i hope that your train [Sonny Von Cleveland]: ah [Nick McGowan]: keeps going yes i find it superinteresting that you pull in victor frankell and
[Nick McGowan]: men search for meaning if [Sonny Von Cleveland]: oh [Nick McGowan]: the audience if you haven’t read thatbook
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: oh [Nick McGowan]: you need to pause this go findit and start reading it right now like
[Nick McGowan]: i allow [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: you to [Sonny Von Cleveland]: now [Nick McGowan]: stop listening to the episode right [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: now go read it that is [Sonny Von Cleveland]: all [Nick McGowan]: one [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: of those [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and [Nick McGowan]: life changing books which i [Sonny Von Cleveland]: amazing [Nick McGowan]: find that i’ve actually read it ata point where it was right before i
[Nick McGowan]: was getting a divorce and after ifinished that book that was one of those
[Nick McGowan]: moments where i was like this isthe path that i’m going on and i
[Nick McGowan]: found that different people i talked toabout that book are like i’ve read it
[Nick McGowan]: at a pivotal point right before thatpivotal point and that was the
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: thing that kind of pushed you overso for you to say that that was
[Nick McGowan]: kind of similar in that sense let’sbreak that down a little bit because if
[Nick McGowan]: you think about [Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: where victor was he as a psychologistand working normal life being and serving and
[Nick McGowan]: then boom next thing you know he’son a fucking train and the ship that
[Nick McGowan]: he went through and even getting thosepoints because you’ve brought this up a couple
[Nick McGowan]: of times where you had those breakpoints you’re like
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: i just snapped you snapped [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: when you were a little kid andyou went into the closet you snapped on
[Nick McGowan]: a couple people when you were olderand i figured out fun i can get
[Nick McGowan]: people to pay attention to me i’mgoing to snap more but those big snaps
[Nick McGowan]: those things happen when you actually forcedto get that thing done because
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: your character comes out so [Sonny Von Cleveland]: one hundred [Nick McGowan]: and [Sonny Von Cleveland]: per cent [Nick McGowan]: it’s crazy that you’ve been through whatyou’ve been through
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: but you’re not one of those peoplethat has taken it and kind of continue
[Nick McGowan]: down that path of negativity and there [Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: are people that live a life wherethey’re in that sort of prison like you’re
[Nick McGowan]: talking about and their nine to fiveor their marriage or whatever and perspective is
[Nick McGowan]: a huge thing because if they canhear
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: huge [Nick McGowan]: this and go oh funk [Sonny Von Cleveland]: huge [Nick McGowan]: at least it’s not that sort ofsituation but what sort of advice would you
[Nick McGowan]: give them that you managed [Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: like how you manage your mindset inthose split moments you know
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: one of the things that i [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: learned early in my transformation phase duringthe nineteen months in the whole was that
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: pain and sadness and loneliness and despairbecome comfortable right because you know what’s coming
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you know what to expect right ikeyou
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: know what hurt feels like so youget to a point where you’re like yeah
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i can handle that oh i’m sadit doesn’t
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: it doesn’t have the impact that ithad the first time you were sad like
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: there’s some things that are so excruciatinglypainful that you never do it again go
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: grab fire s a one time thingyou’ll never do that
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: ship again [Nick McGowan]: learned yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right got it [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: that and you just don’t do itagain because you understand that level of hurt
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that’s actual [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: pain right that’s like fear of deathpain right like so a little bit of
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: sadness and pain is like it’s likeit’s a muscle right your memory is like
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a muscle your mind is like amuscle
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: if you ever go to the gymand you work out the first time you
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ever did a work out it suckeda couple of days later like that ship
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: hurt right but it [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: wasn’t such a traumatic pain that youdidn’t want to keep doing it you kept
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: doing it and then you grew strongerand it became easier and the more you
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: did it the easier it is soour voice is like is like working out
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right and that’s that’s your conduit tohealing the more you talk about things the
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: more you speak your feelings the easierbecause it hurts to talk about it right
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: like to say that i was rapedby two men people don’t expect somebody that
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: looks like me that’s been through eighteenyears in prison or some ship to talk
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: about that right because a lot ofit happens to
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: one and six boys in this inthis world are molested and they don’t talk
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: about it because we got smacofkan thingthat we’re not supposed to talk about it
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right and but the more you speakit the more he less it affects you
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and the easier it is to talkabout it right so that’s
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: how you heal it’s just like healingit’s just like your muscle it’s just like
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: soreness that goes away after time youcan talk about you speak it and speak
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it we we we are separated fromevery other living entity on this earth by
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: our voice we are the only creaturesthat really can speak except for like a
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: king bird that can develop a sentencebut we’re the only ones that can really
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: speak so we can we have thatself awareness that we can talk about what
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: hurts us the problem is at thepain and the sadness become comfortable and so
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: if somebody’s [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: listening to this right now and you’relike my life it’s because you’re comfortable being
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: sad you’re comfortable being hurt you’re comfortablebeing in pain and you don’t feel that
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you’re worthy of happiness because a lotof times the biggest hurt came right behind
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the moment of the happiest time inyour life like when you were really in
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: love and you were really happy andthen she broke your heart and so now
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you are afraid [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: to love again because you’re afraid thatthat pain is going to come back so
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s easier to just be sad anddepressed all the damn time than go out
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: of your comfort zone so that’s theadvice that i would give people that right
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: now if you’re just feeling stuck inruin life sucks it’s so much better to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: get on the other side start talkingabout it and it doesn’t matter
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: who it is people are so afraidof being judged pull a random stranger off
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and just dump all [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: your ship on him you know [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: what i mean you’ll be surprised whoyou’d help with that because
[Nick McGowan]: sure [Sonny Von Cleveland]: most of us have experienced the sameship that most of us have right pain
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and trauma are [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: pain and trauma it doesn’t matter youknow that i have gone to prison and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: somebody else hasn’t it’s still pain rightt’s still trauma
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: the mind process is it the samewe have the self defense mechanism that goes
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: up to try to protect ourselves frombeing judged or being laughed at or being
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you know sought as anything less thananybody else so we put up these defense
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: mechanisms to try to protect ourselves fromthat but when you get comfortable with i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: don’t i don’t i don’t answer toanybody else right this is my life i’m
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the one that has to live thisi get to live this
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: you don’t you get to live yourown life and my life is at the
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: end it ain’t none of your fuckingbusiness in
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: your life is none of my fuckingbusiness
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: you know [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: what i mean but we both havethe same goal of happiness right everybody deserves
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to be happy so if you’re listeningyou deserve to be happy the only thing
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: preventing you from being happy is yourselfyou are the only one that can make
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the choice to stop being miserable andstart being happy and you can it’s like
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the art of not giving a funkif
[Nick McGowan]: oh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: you if you [Nick McGowan]: thank [Sonny Von Cleveland]: can [Nick McGowan]: you [Sonny Von Cleveland]: master [Nick McGowan]: mark manson [Sonny Von Cleveland]: the art of not giving a funk [Nick McGowan]: yet [Sonny Von Cleveland]: you’re going to be so much happierlike and not giving a
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: funk doesn’t mean that that you’re somecold hearted uncaring person it just means that
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m not going to allow you torent space in my mind to dictate how
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i live and [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i mean i’m one of the mostcompassionate people your er gonna see i volunteer
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: out at home less shelters i’m anambassador for buda bullying go into schools and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: talk to kids about bullying and teachparents and teachers and give them tools to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: recognize bullying and understand the genesis ofit and
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: try to help kids stop being bulliedso i’m by far not some selfish prick
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that doesn’t care about the world buton the other hand i don’t give a
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ship what you think about me idon’t care if
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: you don’t like me that’s your problemnot mine i’m happy and i’m going to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: continue to be happy and my hatthis doesn’t prevent anybody else from being happy
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and i think that that’s a keything you know
[Nick McGowan]: i agree it’s absolutely keeping i dothink that subconsciously even most people will look
[Nick McGowan]: for other people to tell them howthey should be and they
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: look for those people around them andthen they pect ed to be one way
[Nick McGowan]: and then they look at you andthey’ll judge because it’s not because it’s not
[Nick McGowan]: really what they’re feeling so you live [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: in a state where you’re like idon’t really
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: m [Nick McGowan]: give a funk because i really doactually give a funk
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: but i’ll give a funk about thethings that ive a funk about and the
[Nick McGowan]: other things i don’t give a funk [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: and it’s [Sonny Von Cleveland]: you know [Nick McGowan]: beautiful [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and and you see it a lotof it in the person who’s like i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: don’t give focus [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: people think about me with your goddamn [Nick McGowan]: i do [Sonny Von Cleveland]: gooch sun glasses and your [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: super thousand dollar suits and your sixhundred dollar nice shoes and like the only
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: reason you’re wearing that ship is toimpress other people like you’re really not comfortable
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: in that chip i’m comfortable as [Nick McGowan]: oh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: hell in my three dollar boot bullying [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: t shirt and all this and imean i’ve been known to go to these
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: these business events out here in thefreak t shirt and jeans like i’m comfortable
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: now i’m not here to impress youlet me my goal is to teach people
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to one of the the epictetus senecaone of the greatest stoics of all time
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: we’re all here for the sake ofeach other because we’re all community people we’re
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: here for the sake of each otherwe
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: either teach or tolerate h and [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i don’t i’m not here to toleratei’m here to teach i believe that i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: was given a gift to because iknow how to read well i know how
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: to write well i’m an articulate guyyou know what i mean in i believe
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that that was a gift and myexperiences were all part of that gift to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: help teach other people so that maybei can help somebody else avoid the ship
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that i went through because i wouldn’tchange
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: anything that i’ve been through because that’swhat may me who i am but i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: believe i was given that gift totry to help other people to avoid or
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: if you’ve gone through it already toget over it and
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: you know there’s we live in avery sensitive culture
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: at this time we’re being olitically correctand all that stuff is it’s big and
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: then with cancel culture and all thestuff a lot of people are afraid to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: actually say what is what needs tobe said and that’s get over it get
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: over your ship so what you knowbad ship happens that everybody get over it
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: because the only reason that you’re stillsad or depressed is because you’re allowing that
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ship to be there just get overit because at the end of the day
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: nobody else really gives a funk eitheryou know i mean nobody
[Nick McGowan]: well they got [Sonny Von Cleveland]: else [Nick McGowan]: their own ship to get [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: over [Sonny Von Cleveland]: everybody’s [Nick McGowan]: and [Sonny Von Cleveland]: got [Nick McGowan]: get [Sonny Von Cleveland]: their [Nick McGowan]: through [Sonny Von Cleveland]: own ship so nobody’s you [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: know you see somebody put a postout oh my life is so bad i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: just don’t understand why nobody actually givesa funk about what just said you might
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: get a couple of likes from peoplethat feel indebted to like your ship because
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: they call you a friend but [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: nobody actually read that and there likethis poor person should i should do something
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: they don’t give a shit [Nick McGowan]: stroll [Sonny Von Cleveland]: got their own ship to deal with [Nick McGowan]: their like out scroll [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right like keep going right nobody [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: they don’t want actually care so whenyou when you come to understand that nobody
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: actually really gives a ship you canit’s easier for you to stop giving a
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ship and [Nick McGowan]: yes [Sonny Von Cleveland]: start focusing on what makes you happyand do that
[Nick McGowan]: a man absolutely [Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: the fact of giving a ship tothe point where you actually understand that you
[Nick McGowan]: care enough about other things that youcare about to give your time and to
[Nick McGowan]: that there’s a beautiful level where alot of people kind of live at the
[Nick McGowan]: let’s say surface level of that wherethe pain hurts enough for them to bitch
[Nick McGowan]: about it but they really don’t want [Sonny Von Cleveland]: oh [Nick McGowan]: to do the things that they wantto do as a coach i know you
[Nick McGowan]: get this you probably talk about thiswith your clients like i do with mine
[Nick McGowan]: you’ve got to be able [Sonny Von Cleveland]: ah [Nick McGowan]: to be aware of [Sonny Von Cleveland]: oh [Nick McGowan]: what the fuck the problem is beforeyou can do anything about it
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you [Nick McGowan]: and [Sonny Von Cleveland]: have [Nick McGowan]: then from [Sonny Von Cleveland]: to [Nick McGowan]: that [Sonny Von Cleveland]: isolate [Nick McGowan]: being able to figure [Sonny Von Cleveland]: the problem [Nick McGowan]: out yeah and you fig [Sonny Von Cleveland]: yah [Nick McGowan]: what are you keeping [Sonny Von Cleveland]: h [Nick McGowan]: what are you getting rid of andwhat are the meanings to all those but
[Nick McGowan]: i think a lot of people arejust so afraid of the unknown of that
[Nick McGowan]: because they think like holy [Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: ship this is going to be sucha monster and they don’t go near it
[Nick McGowan]: because they have this giant big hairyscary monster image in their head and it’s
[Nick McGowan]: not always real the ship that you’vebeen
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: through the scary fucked up and demonicmoments that had happened to you and things
[Nick McGowan]: that [Sonny Von Cleveland]: had [Nick McGowan]: you [Sonny Von Cleveland]: a lot [Nick McGowan]: poured out well those things i dothink in some ways and it can be
[Nick McGowan]: easy for me to say this nothaving gone through your ship but i’ve go
[Nick McGowan]: through my own ship that i’ve noticedthat people look to that and go oh
[Nick McGowan]: well i had something that was alittle less so i can see where you’re
[Nick McGowan]: coming from they can [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: relate with that like you can havedifferent conversations
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: sure [Nick McGowan]: i think about think about people thatyou’ve talked to that probably can’t have a
[Nick McGowan]: conversation with some of the people thatare in some of those previous circles that
[Nick McGowan]: you’re part of you can have [Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: fucking conversations with those people because theyhave a level of respect or at least
[Nick McGowan]: can connect with you off the bat [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: where somebody [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and understanding [Nick McGowan]: has a bible thumper [Sonny Von Cleveland]: sir [Nick McGowan]: or something of that sort a wholedifferent story
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: ah [Nick McGowan]: but they can connect with [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: people would be harder [Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: for you to connect with so it’salmost like we’re
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: here to be able to connect withpeople
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: at a certain level that we’re ableto get to
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and i love to connect and talkwith everybody because i’m going to learn something
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: from you whether i agree [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: with you or not [Nick McGowan]: ah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: you know i’m going to learn somethingfrom you and and learn we all learn
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: every day and that’s another key [Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: to growing is to be receptive ofyour ability to learn you know a lot
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of people we’ll put up a blockif you know he’s a trumper i i
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: don’t want to talk to [Nick McGowan]: no [Sonny Von Cleveland]: that mother under at all you don’tknow why he’s a trumper though you don’t
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: know if he [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: was you know born under this thisbrain washed militant mind set that we all
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: grew up in worshipping a goddamn flagso he might just be this who us
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: doesn’t no [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: trump at all but he’s a trumperand you block yourself off to the beauty
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: that is that human being because hehas beautiful
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: things to offer the world you justdon’t want to talk to him right
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and so i avoid politics like theplague because it’s always just you know it’s
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s a ship [Nick McGowan]: slippery [Sonny Von Cleveland]: show [Nick McGowan]: slope yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s a very slippery slope but again [Nick McGowan]: ye [Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s another distractive mechanism put into placeto distract
[Nick McGowan]: yep [Sonny Von Cleveland]: people from being happy like if youlearn to not give a shit about politics
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you’re going to be that much morehappier in like like shit
[Nick McGowan]: and [Sonny Von Cleveland]: about [Nick McGowan]: totally [Sonny Von Cleveland]: it all [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: it’s funny there are people that willbitch about things like how often do you
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: watch the news there like every nightlike
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: so do we need to continue thisconversation or did
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right [Nick McGowan]: you get the fucking point [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and [Nick McGowan]: yea [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and what they don’t realize is youknow fat people are fat because they invest
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: a whole lot of food skinny peopleare
[Nick McGowan]: oh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: skinny because they don’t invest a wholelot of food
[Nick McGowan]: yeah oh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: if you are what you invest it’sthe same thing mentality wise if you sit
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: down and watch the news every dayguess what you’re you’re in jesting ship because
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: all the news is is depressing sadship and so when you’re watching that you’re
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: going to be a sad depressed personbecause once you
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: take in you’re gonna want to talkabout you’re goin a wan to put out
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: the same [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: thing you took in and you knowjust like food goes in what has it
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: come out as it comes out aship and so if you
[Nick McGowan]: there’s [Sonny Von Cleveland]: ingest [Nick McGowan]: that slippery slope [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right if you ingest good [Nick McGowan]: oh [Sonny Von Cleveland]: positive and stuff [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and just posit [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: tivity you’re going to start living thatyou know if you wake like i wake
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: up every day and i read thedaily stoic by ron holiday it’s or ryan
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: holiday amazing the dude take some timeout of his life to send an email
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: every day the daily stoic and youjust read about stoics and how they live
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: their life in these men like marcusaurelius it like
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: this guy lived in such a shiptyworld and he was such a happy dude
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: and he wrote down so much stufffor people to and he didn’t even write
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it for anybody else he wrote itfor himself for his own personal journals but
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: what we can [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: learn from that is as how tobe happy in a world that’s falling apart
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: right and every day you just ingestgood stuff and your life
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: is going to be that [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: you are what you [Nick McGowan]: m hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: you take in [Nick McGowan]: i love that point so i alsoread the daily stoic and you’d
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yes [Nick McGowan]: mentioned john c maxwell earlier [Sonny Von Cleveland]: es [Nick McGowan]: i have a daily devotional from johnand those are two of my daily readers
[Nick McGowan]: along with the bible and then whateverbooks i read like right now i’m going
[Nick McGowan]: through the tipping point so for theaudience i want you to take note of
[Nick McGowan]: that you’ve [Sonny Von Cleveland]: do [Nick McGowan]: heard [Sonny Von Cleveland]: it [Nick McGowan]: this on different episodes where we readsomething or journal in the morning so if
[Nick McGowan]: you’re not doing that funk and tryit just straight
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it [Nick McGowan]: try me see what happens [Sonny Von Cleveland]: do it [Nick McGowan]: with it because the daily stoic [Sonny Von Cleveland]: what [Nick McGowan]: is [Sonny Von Cleveland]: do you what [Nick McGowan]: one [Sonny Von Cleveland]: do you [Nick McGowan]: page [Sonny Von Cleveland]: have to lose right you got nothing [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: to lose i take ten minutes ofyour morning you got nothing to lose
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: try it if you don’t like itstop doing it but you’re probably
[Nick McGowan]: try it [Sonny Von Cleveland]: going [Nick McGowan]: out [Sonny Von Cleveland]: to keep doing it right [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s [Nick McGowan]: i [Sonny Von Cleveland]: good [Nick McGowan]: mean that’s [Sonny Von Cleveland]: stuff [Nick McGowan]: probably where we challenge ourselves and kindof grew from
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: one [Nick McGowan]: there [Sonny Von Cleveland]: hundred per cent and [Nick McGowan]: but look man [Sonny Von Cleveland]: and find some type of faith manyou know
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s it’s yeah i’m not an organizedreligious guy right like i i’m an odinist
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: i’m danish so i’m a big followerof the religion of the vikings i absolutely
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: love it but i have studied thebible more than most christians and
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: know it front to [Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: back and you’re only going to benefitif you if you read it you know
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: what i mean [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: it’s if you give yourself something againspirituality and positivity it changes you right like
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: it gives you [Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: something happy and positive i don’t givea ship what religion you do because all
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: religions [Nick McGowan]: not [Sonny Von Cleveland]: at [Nick McGowan]: about [Sonny Von Cleveland]: the [Nick McGowan]: religion [Sonny Von Cleveland]: or core are good right it’s notabout
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: religion it’s about it’s about spirituality andknowing that we’re more
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: than what we accept of being youknow what i mean
[Nick McGowan]: yeah and on that note you knowit it’s been a pleasure to have you
[Nick McGowan]: on man and i appreciate you getting [Sonny Von Cleveland]: thanks [Nick McGowan]: in everything [Sonny Von Cleveland]: man [Nick McGowan]: you get into and we can probablysit here for another three hours ship
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: yeah [Nick McGowan]: at some [Sonny Von Cleveland]: because [Nick McGowan]: point [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i [Nick McGowan]: you [Sonny Von Cleveland]: mean [Nick McGowan]: will [Sonny Von Cleveland]: we [Nick McGowan]: come [Sonny Von Cleveland]: just [Nick McGowan]: back [Sonny Von Cleveland]: got [Nick McGowan]: on [Sonny Von Cleveland]: to [Nick McGowan]: the [Sonny Von Cleveland]: the [Nick McGowan]: show [Sonny Von Cleveland]: point where we got out of prisonbecause there’s
[Nick McGowan]: yeah [Sonny Von Cleveland]: been a whole music career there’s benan entire you tube career there’s been a
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: corporate career there’s there’s a whole lotof ship that’s happened
[Nick McGowan]: m [Sonny Von Cleveland]: just since i’ve been out so [Nick McGowan]: yeah man [Sonny Von Cleveland]: we’ll [Nick McGowan]: we’ll [Sonny Von Cleveland]: have to [Nick McGowan]: have [Sonny Von Cleveland]: do [Nick McGowan]: to [Sonny Von Cleveland]: it [Nick McGowan]: do [Sonny Von Cleveland]: again [Nick McGowan]: another episode or two but why don’tyou give us some sort of advice to
[Nick McGowan]: the people that are on their pathtowards self mastery and kind of wrap this
[Nick McGowan]: thing up for us [Sonny Von Cleveland]: oh just be authentic man authenticity it’sscary right or you’re going to be afraid
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: of losing people at one point inin this crazy i achieved global fame on
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you tube i had over fifty thousandsubscribers and people followed non stop and i’ve
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: lost almost all of that simply bybeing authentic in it hurts way less than
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you think it’s going to hurt it’sit’s okay to lose your your new life
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: will cost you your old one andif you’re not happy with the life that
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you currently have you have nothing butto gain from getting a new life let
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: this one go and start over youcan start
[Nick McGowan]: hm [Sonny Von Cleveland]: over any moment there’s nothing to preventyou you can start over at any moment
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: you can start over right in now [Nick McGowan]: right now awesome [Sonny Von Cleveland]: right now [Nick McGowan]: right now sonny you’re the man appreciateyou being on
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: thanks [Nick McGowan]: we’ll [Sonny Von Cleveland]: man [Nick McGowan]: definitely have you back at some point [Sonny Von Cleveland]: i appreciate [Nick McGowan]: where can people [Sonny Von Cleveland]: you nick [Nick McGowan]: find you where can where [Sonny Von Cleveland]: uh [Nick McGowan]: can people connect [Sonny Von Cleveland]: just [Nick McGowan]: with you [Sonny Von Cleveland]: google son ivan cleveland and you’ll findeverything from there there’s going to be a
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: link to everything if you just googleat sunny van cleveland on all platforms you
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: just pop it in you’re gonna findme
[Nick McGowan]: beautiful i’ll have some of that inthe show notes as well again it’s been
[Nick McGowan]: a pleasure having you all and iappreciate your time
[Sonny Von Cleveland]: thank you so much